I was healing arcane missile targets on Solarian, so I had an unusually high number of lesser healing waves. I expected poorer performance from IED on that fight as a result, but surprisingly it was the VR fight that it performed poorly on. I'm chalking that up as an outlier.
For the data I posted, I used the entire length of the fight, not the time I spent healing. Here are the results using your format. However, it appears that WWS rounds your time spent healing, making it fairly inaccurate in some cases.
It’s probably best to chose fights that we spend nearly 100% of our time healing. Keep in mind that IED will proc off any spell, such as refreshing water shield, casting totems, etc. So it could proc even if you're not healing.
It’s probably best to chose fights that we spend nearly 100% of our time healing. Keep in mind that IED will proc off any spell, such as refreshing water shield, casting totems, etc. So it could proc even if you're not healing.
Agreed. The reason I included both total fight duration and the estimated healing presence is that they give a sort of upper and lower bound. Total fight duration gives worst case, healing presence gives best case.
Sounds like Searing Totems should be recalled to be on the safe side. However, can't the warlock DoT up Leo in his Human phase and be assured of getting aggro in the Demon phase? I have memories of our raid leader calling out for people to stop DoTs prior to the Demon Phase. Warlock DoTs > Searing?
Yeah, I call for stop DoTs before Demon Phase and only the warlock tank is still dotting. Unfortunately it sometimes happens that that DoT doesn't tick off in time before the Searing Totem ticks and the totem gets a second of aggro. We didn't find it to be a big problem, and overall I found that it was more troublesome and a bigger waste for me to have to re-drop my WoA and Mana Spring, burning the 2 GCD's plus the extra mana cost.
[Totem of Living Water]
Text is changing in Patch 2.4 to base mana cost. I believe we have been getting short changed on our mana savings with this relic.
The -20 mana reduction comes off the base spell cost. When you have the Tidal Focus and the first T6 set bonus, the actual mana reduction is below.
Tidal Focus - Mana cost reduced by 19.
T6 Set Bonus w/ Tidal Focus - Mana cost reduced by 17.
Originally Posted by Skyhoof
Are you sure?
First, I thought Relics were applied before set bonuses. So the Tier 6 set bonus shouldn’t impact the relic.
Second, Rank 1 HW costs 23.75 mana after talents. The totem of the Maelstrom allows you to cast this for free since it reduces the cost by 24 mana. This would imply that the totem is applied after talents.
Originally Posted by Nitrogen
Ya, I just looked at the raw numbers on my toon. If I'm not wearing any T6, total mana reduction is 19. Pretty easy to verify this with anyone running Tidal Mastery... and I double checked T6 numbers, mana cost reduction is 17 when equipped.
Well, I was absolutely convinced that relics were applied before talents and gear. However, I could not understand how Nitrogen was getting his results and I didn’t have the CH relic to test for myself. Apparently this relic was not working as intended.
According to World of Raids, they have removed all the Stamina on the T6 belts, boots and bracers. This is for all classes, not just shaman. Instead, it looks like the gear has both crit and spell haste now. Doing some calculations to see whether I like this change or not.
According to World of Raids, they have removed all the Stamina on the T6 belts, boots and bracers. This is for all classes, not just shaman. Instead, it looks like the gear has both crit and spell haste now. Doing some calculations to see whether I like this change or not.
While crit is only half as good as haste per percent (not per rating it takes even more for 1% crit than 1% haste) for HPS it consummes no extra mana and I always like having it for the little for extra armor it gives. If you desperarely nee the stam there are stam gems and plenty of sockets in sunwell gear. Personally I like it since it gives me the flexibility to go for whatever I want stead of forcing a balance between stats that I may or may not need.
While crit is only half as good as haste per percent (not per rating it takes even more for 1% crit than 1% haste) for HPS it consummes no extra mana and I always like having it for the little for extra armor it gives. If you desperarely nee the stam there are stam gems and plenty of sockets in sunwell gear. Personally I like it since it gives me the flexibility to go for whatever I want stead of forcing a balance between stats that I may or may not need.
The T6 belts, boots and bracers were going to be the pieces I used to get my set bonuses. My concern is that if the gear lacks any stamina, I will not be able to wear them all the time. I will have to swap in other T6 pieces on fights that require a greater number of hit points. So this change just means I will still need to buy T6 out of BT and Hyjal rather than saving DKP for Sunwell items alone.
I’ll update the Morogrim info. However, I have never seen our demon tank have a problem getting aggro if the searing totem was down. Can you explain further what problems you have observed if the Searing Totem is left down?
A few pages back there was discussion on whether a shamans fire totems aggro gets reset on a full aggro reset. I searched high and low and cannot find a definitive answer to that question. What I do know is that a druid tank with a hunters MD and his own aggro will not out aggro a searing totem at Leo's switch to human form. Leo goes and swats the totem then goes for second highest aggro, the druid tank. This leads me to believe totems aggro does not reset.
In demon form the mechanics are slightly different. Demon Leo uses only one form of damage, Chaos Blast, which is a aoe based attack. Unlike the human form he cannot kill the totem (totems are immune to aoe effects). As such what I have noticed is a loss to the dps of at least one tick and sometimes 2 while the lock pushes out searing pains until he out aggros the totem. Most of this fights dps comes from demon form so any lost time is important here.
The time loss is small so a end game guild with T6 dps may not be bothered by the searing because they know how to kill Leo quickly. Beginning guilds will need all the help they can get to beat the enrage and that tick or two maybe the difference. This fight is very easy on healers so the extra mana used to reset the totems is never a problem.
A few pages back there was discussion on whether a shamans fire totems aggro gets reset on a full aggro reset. I searched high and low and cannot find a definitive answer to that question. What I do know is that a druid tank with a hunters MD and his own aggro will not out aggro a searing totem at Leo's switch to human form. Leo goes and swats the totem then goes for second highest aggro, the druid tank. This leads me to believe totems aggro does not reset.
In demon form the mechanics are slightly different. Demon Leo uses only one form of damage, Chaos Blast, which is a aoe based attack. Unlike the human form he cannot kill the totem (totems are immune to aoe effects). As such what I have noticed is a loss to the dps of at least one tick and sometimes 2 while the lock pushes out searing pains until he out aggros the totem. Most of this fights dps comes from demon form so any lost time is important here.
The time loss is small so a end game guild with T6 dps may not be bothered by the searing because they know how to kill Leo quickly. Beginning guilds will need all the help they can get to beat the enrage and that tick or two maybe the difference. This fight is very easy on healers so the extra mana used to reset the totems is never a problem.
I asked our druid MT in full t6 if he ever was out aggroed by a searing totem and he said it i wasn't a problem if he timed it right. His thinking was that the searing totem it getting initial aggro simplydue to it constantly hitting the mob so it frequently gets the first hit after an aggro reset. He said if he timed it right the mob would never go for the totem. So I think the jury is still out about totem aggro.
Also if you placed the searing along the same vector as the lock I don't see why it would be any dps loss. Its been awhile since I did the fight but I never remember any issues with it.
Also if you placed the searing along the same vector as the lock I don't see why it would be any dps loss. Its been awhile since I did the fight but I never remember any issues with it.
Might be just us but we do not dps on Demon Leo till the lock has aggro. Dps early and lock gets a searing pain resist and dps dies fast. Checked the top end guilds WWS for Leo, even their locks get searing pain resisted. Will test it out tonight and see if vector works.
Last edited by Yekkom : 02/21/08 at 8:02 PM.
Reason: added content
As I posted before, I'll post it again: Totems do not lose aggro during an aggro reset.
This means, if the Searing totem has done a total of 2k damage before the aggro reset (after a whirlwind of Leotheras for example), the totem keeps its 2k aggro while all players have 0 aggro. this obviously means, that Leotheras will head for the searing totem until a tank has built up more than 2.2k aggro or the totem was destroyed.
In short: Totems ignore aggro resets. Very simple. Not complex. Easy to understand.
The T6 belts, boots and bracers were going to be the pieces I used to get my set bonuses. My concern is that if the gear lacks any stamina, I will not be able to wear them all the time. I will have to swap in other T6 pieces on fights that require a greater number of hit points. So this change just means I will still need to buy T6 out of BT and Hyjal rather than saving DKP for Sunwell items alone.
Doubt that. Get one off-set item and pack it with stam gems for such an encounter or use Arena pieces. You don't want to risk your T6 4p bonus.
First, let me say I've probably read this thread about 100 times and still haven't been able to soak the wealth of awesome information in that is posted here. You have a great resource for anyone that seriously wants to make sure they are wringing the most potential from their resto shaman.
My guild is currently progressing into SSC / TK and this site has definitely given me that last extra edge to make sure I'm performing to my most potential. I will say that the equip macros alone before casting let me wring another 1-2% on my healing alone it feels like, I never even thought about that something as simple as that.
With all the wealth of information here I'm not even sure what I could add, nothing groundbreaking for sure.
The only extra tip I could add after re-reading the awesome posts here that I didn't see was a trick we learned while fighting Netherspit on accident (I'm sure its pretty widespread knowledge, but didn't see it in the original post with regards to things resto shaman can do in specific encounters).
Netherspite:
From what I've seen, during banish phase most guilds leave a tank in and the rest of the people gather underneath NS or behind her and bandage / pot, whatever. However, If you leave a searing totem in front of NS and call no DOTS about 15sec prior to the banish, the searing totem will hold 100% of the NS's aggro and will not take AOE damage from NS. This allows the whole raid (including tank) to bandage and make fun of the gnomes in raid. Make sure the tank is ready to pickup aggro upon the completion of banish.
Again this isn't groundbreaking and NS isn't really a hard fight once you get the communication down, just my 2 copper on adding a bit of value to a site that has provided so much to me.
Thanks again from the silent majority for your efforts here on this site.
We just brought mags down as we are transitioning a bit backwards from most guild through the content i guess...FYI earthbind helps alot when the infernals are running around, however earthbind if dropped before the encounter starts, will start it as it counts as an aoe...doh...bad shammy...bad.
If you're ever in the neighborhood on Hellscream and need a healer or a crappy alt prot warrior let me know.
As I posted before, I'll post it again: Totems do not lose aggro during an aggro reset.
This means, if the Searing totem has done a total of 2k damage before the aggro reset (after a whirlwind of Leotheras for example), the totem keeps its 2k aggro while all players have 0 aggro. this obviously means, that Leotheras will head for the searing totem until a tank has built up more than 2.2k aggro or the totem was destroyed.
In short: Totems ignore aggro resets. Very simple. Not complex. Easy to understand.
I had no issues understanding your post. I simply stated my tank said he has never lost aggro to a searing totem if he timed his abilities after an aggro wipe. So either he simply out aggros the totem instantly or this is not true. I would like further information.
The only extra tip I could add after re-reading the awesome posts here that I didn't see was a trick we learned while fighting Netherspit on accident (I'm sure its pretty widespread knowledge, but didn't see it in the original post with regards to things resto shaman can do in specific encounters).
Netherspite:
From what I've seen, during banish phase most guilds leave a tank in and the rest of the people gather underneath NS or behind her and bandage / pot, whatever. However, If you leave a searing totem in front of NS and call no DOTS about 15sec prior to the banish, the searing totem will hold 100% of the NS's aggro and will not take AOE damage from NS. This allows the whole raid (including tank) to bandage and make fun of the gnomes in raid. Make sure the tank is ready to pickup aggro upon the completion of banish.
Again this isn't groundbreaking and NS isn't really a hard fight once you get the communication down, just my 2 copper on adding a bit of value to a site that has provided so much to me.
It's great to hear how this information has helped someone's shaman. And actually, I have never tried using a Searing Totem to direction Nethersprite's breath. As you said it's not a hard fight but I'm going to give it a try on our next Kara run. Thanks for posting the information.
First I wanted to thank everyone who contributes to this thread. I started getting rushed into my guild because they needed a Restoration Shaman and this thread really helped me get up to speed with what I was supposed to be doing.
I also read the Enhancement thread and they have been talking about the new changes to Totems in 2.4 in which a macro is added which will allow you to selectively destroy totems (and get mana back as if you were casting Totemic Recall). I thought I would mention it since not everyone necessarily reads the other threads and I hadn't seen it mentioned here.
First I wanted to thank everyone who contributes to this thread. I started getting rushed into my guild because they needed a Restoration Shaman and this thread really helped me get up to speed with what I was supposed to be doing.
I also read the Enhancement thread and they have been talking about the new changes to Totems in 2.4 in which a macro is added which will allow you to selectively destroy totems (and get mana back as if you were casting Totemic Recall). I thought I would mention it since not everyone necessarily reads the other threads and I hadn't seen it mentioned here.
-VikingHelmet
I know both Bink and I read the enh thread once we know if the lack of GCD is a bug or intentional and the patch is in a final ver we'll update the macros in the OP.
I had no issues understanding your post. I simply stated my tank said he has never lost aggro to a searing totem if he timed his abilities after an aggro wipe. So either he simply out aggros the totem instantly or this is not true. I would like further information.
Sorry if I came across a little harsh.
If I read your post correctly, the statement of your tank in no way questions the theory of totems not being affected by an aggro reset. I am guessing that he simply use a high aggro attack in order to out aggro the totem instantly. If he only uses a normal attack, then it is quite possible the totem will still have aggro if it has been up for a significant amount of time before the aggro reset.
So far I have not seem anything happen that has seriously challenged my theory that totems are not affected by aggro resets.
Oh and btw, the new Tier 6 pieces now have some Stamina again.
If I read your post correctly, the statement of your tank in no way questions the theory of totems not being affected by an aggro reset. I am guessing that he simply use a high aggro attack in order to out aggro the totem instantly. If he only uses a normal attack, then it is quite possible the totem will still have aggro if it has been up for a significant amount of time before the aggro reset.
So far I have not seem anything happen that has seriously challenged my theory that totems are not affected by aggro resets.
Oh and btw, the new Tier 6 pieces now have some Stamina again.
Yes that was one possibility. I'd be curious if any tanks can test this on a fight with aggro wipes. In my experiences I never had a tank only white attack after a aggro wipe so I have not seen evidence conclusively one way or the other.
First and foremost, I would like to apologize for taking this discussion in a new direction but I recently had an interesting thought with regard to Water Shield. Limited testing performed in game of this ability seems to suggest as soon as Water Shield is cast, 50 mana is instantly restored to the caster; with an additional 50 restored every 5 seconds thereafter. Now, suppose this testing is true and one refreshes Water Shield every time the global cooldown has "cooled down". In a lag free environment, it would be possible to restore 150 mana in the the 5 second period instead of 50 with 0.5 seconds to spare.
1.5 * 3 = 4,5
3 * 50 = 150
Obviously, this relies on the instant tic theory of Water Shield to be true which very well may be false. However, if true, it could prove quite useful in situations where little healing is required and a Shaman may comfortably sit in the GCD for a few seconds to regain some extra mana. As Water Shield costs nothing, a Shaman could do this and still remain outside the 5 second rule.
EDIT: Further testing has proven this theory wrong and therefore this post is rendered useless. Apologies for taking up space.
Does anyone have any experience with the [Mystical Skyfire Diamond] and the Sunwell encounters on the PTR? As we know there have been some changes made to the MSD on the PTR, and I would like to know if anyone has raided Sunwell there and could share their experience with the meta.
As it stands currently I use the MSD in my T6 helm, and I recently picked up a 2nd Tier 6 Helm token and I'm debating whether or not I should buy another Resto helm to put in an IED or just get an Elemental helm for fun. In my experiences through Black Temple I have come to the conclusion that the MSD is by far the better gem for all encounters but the Illidari Council. This is because we have everything on farm status now and bosses drop a lot faster than I can run OOM with my mana regen from elsewhere.
I suspect that when learning new bosses more mana regen is going to be very important, but I would still like to know how the MSD performs in Sunwell. Are there any periods of extreme burst raid or tank damage? Are any of the bosses "skinny" enough for Chain Heal to bounce from tank to melee (in which case it may be a good idea to assign a Resto Shaman to heal the tank)? Information like this would be greatly appreciated.
I have some experience with this meta on the ptr. The actual haste number eludes me, but I'll edit this post once I can log the PTR (if anyone remembers the exact number, feel free Edit:320).
For the record, the change is from Next spell cast is cast in half time (consumes the charge) to your spells cast faster (not consumed and 4(?) second charge). It's therefore possible to cast two chain healswith one skyfire proc, although currently with PTR lag it can be a bit tricky. I *think* my chain heal went from 2.4 sec>2.1, again I can't remember for sure and I will omit any erronous figures once I can log ptr again.
I've only tried the first two bosses. At least on kaelcgos, the extra haste can be really nice. The boss(es) can do some nasty chain combo specials that can leave multiple people very low on health, and this is where fast multi-target heals are useful.
Second boss I only tried once, is less raid damage orientated and more hitting-your-tank-extremely-hard orientated and I would guess with the spam healing need that earthstorm diamond would be more suited as it appears to be mana intensive.
Both bosses are huge so there is very little chain healing bouncing off the tank. I think that if people get their spacing right and don't do anything stupid to get alot of damage, that you generally won't need, skyfires proc for raidwide damage. Kalecgos and the demon can have significant burst (think morogrim on your first attempts), and Brut has insane burst, so choose what you prefer.
My own decision at this time is to change to ISD and put MSD in a hasted (considering the timer on its charge) set such as Skyhoof suggested; [Shroud of Chieftain Ner'zhul] would be really nice for it. ISD is a surefire safe choice for me as additional mana is always added to your pool during your fight to be used at a later stage, whilst the MSD can proc at odd and uneeded times and is on a short timer.
Hope this helped.
Last edited by Arfea : 02/23/08 at 9:36 AM.
Reason: broken item link
i havent looked at all the pages on here but have you looked into 24/0/37 as a raiding spec? it gives 34.6 more mp5 with 455 int and goes up to 43.52 more mp5 with AI and Kings buffs
its linked below
and yes no improved healing wave ya never use those things in a raid
i never run outa mana with this spec and ya dont have earth sheild which does help alot but its sorta hard to spam those in a raid which using prayer of mending would be better suited for which is a less cost in mana and jumps around.
i've been using this spec alot and i've usually rocked with it but i've only been up to TK and SSC it helps for those long fights which if that Spriest doesnt show up or if ya dont wanna just burn through mana pots i've servived a whole mag fight with using 1 mana pot and that was cause i got cought in convlagaration and died and ankhed back up
and dont just find a bunch of flaws with it. yes you do reduce alot of + healing but it helps alot with your mp5.
just putting this out there if ya ever wanna try saying something about it
You would have to look at some of the older threads for a full discussion on the Elemental/Resto hybrid builds, but I'll sum it up: basically spending 16 points for ~48 mp5 just isn't worth it for a shaman who primarily heals. If you're often called to help dps a little, then the builds become closer, but the sacrifice of flexibility and +heal still makes it a toss up.
Not having 41 talents in resto is just not right. You don't get any of the really good elem talents and you loose all the really good ones in resto. It's a really bad spec.
Netherspite:
From what I've seen, during banish phase most guilds leave a tank in and the rest of the people gather underneath NS or behind her and bandage / pot, whatever. However, If you leave a searing totem in front of NS and call no DOTS about 15sec prior to the banish, the searing totem will hold 100% of the NS's aggro and will not take AOE damage from NS. This allows the whole raid (including tank) to bandage and make fun of the gnomes in raid. Make sure the tank is ready to pickup aggro upon the completion of banish.
Again this isn't groundbreaking and NS isn't really a hard fight once you get the communication down, just my 2 copper on adding a bit of value to a site that has provided so much to me.
We did a Kara badge run this weekend and gave this strategy a try. The strategy will work as long as no one attacks Netherspite during the banish phase. If they don't stop their attack, they will quickly out-aggro the Searing Totem. So if your guild's normal strategy is to do no DPS while a tank stands in front of NS, a searing totem would be a great improvement.
However, we like to hit things in my guild. Therefore, for us, it's better to continue DPS during the banish and run through NS when he does the breath.
02/21/08, 12:48 PM
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