How to Heal like a Pro - Page 3

Daidalos · 12/17/07, 2:03 PM

I personally don't consider mp5 weights to be a static ratio since once you are not really in danger our running out of mana I prefer to just stack pure +healing.

Regarding haste it is an excellent way to increase hps however unlike melee there is a (possible) downside of increased mana consumption. I say possible because if you have 2 pc t6 and sufficent regen you can easily accomodate the increase in mana consumption. Personally I use about 100+ haste rating and love it, but I don't wear it for every fight. On long mana intensive fights I prefer less haste and more regen. The leather haste healing gear in BT is excellent and I personally love alot of haste for chain heal spam.

Haste for a shaman is very rarely wasted imo. Other healers use alot of instant casts making haste rather a waste of itemization, however mostly being chain heal bots I personally find it extremely usefull.

Skyhoof · 12/17/07, 3:03 PM

Thanks for all the great feedback and discussion. I hope it continues.

I expanded the section on meta gems, giving more information about each of the three gems and some of the pros and cons.

I still think [Design: Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] is your best choice. Keep in mind that it has no cooldown while Blizzard added at 45 second cool down to [Mystical Skyfire Diamond] in Patch 2.3. In real raids this means you will get a proc about once per minute. Sure, if it procs at just the right time, it’s a lifesaver. But many times the proc will be wasted while extra mana is never wasted. We have all been in fights where one healer died and others had to step up casting, depleting their mana pools faster than normal. Or even worse – your shadow priest could die. And there are fights were if the boss gets off a heal, the battle drags on longer, using more mana. So having a little more mp5 never hurts.

I also added a few basics about Haste. However we could use some more discussion on the subject. I would also love to see some WWS data. Here are a few examples of what I’m looking for:

• Haste – multiple attempts on the same boss during which you wore haste gear for some pulls and not for others
• Haste – multiple shamans in the same raid. They are of equal skill and gear. One wear haste the other does not.
• Tier 2: same thing as haste. Would love to see this set bonus in action and be able to compare it with your other gear for the same fight.

Made another attempt at explaining Nature’s Guardian. I have no idea why I keep stumbling over this talent.

Added the 0-0-61 spec.
Added cooldowns on trinkets
Added Rank 1 and Rank 2 Healing Wave to the chart
Added a section on spell hit for interrupts to the Gear section.

Originally Posted by bhchwsy
[Eye of Gruul] Procs off each jump of chain heal, boosting the proc chance to 6%. If it procs twice per minute, it equals 18 mp5.

If it procs twice per minute, it equals 18 mp5? or it should be 900/60*5=75 mp5? or getting worse. it procs once per minute, it will be 37.5 mp5.

Good catch. I meant to say, if it procs once every two minutes, it equals 18 mp5. Fixed.

Originally Posted by Malan
I was looking for some stat weights to use in Pawn for assembling my healing off spec gear since I haven't been a full time healer in a long time. These values seem.... odd though. Mp5 is worth three times as much as +healing? Is that a typo?

No, that is not a typo. Usually people say that I don’t put enough weight on mp5. However, I agree with Praetorian that since they buffed mana spring and water shield it has become much less of an issue.

I also agree with Daidalos that mp5 weights are far from static. Once you have enough mana regeneration, you want to stack plus healing or haste or another stat. How much you value mp5 really depends on how much you already have and how much mana a particular fight requires.

Originally Posted by Malan
If you consider it accurate though, then the trinket section of the OP is a bit off. It lists the Rejuv gem as a "Tier 1" trinket, lumping it in with some green quest rewards and the LCPB. But if you calculate the stat weights its as good, if not better than, the Fathom Lord Brooch.

I think you meant to say “Tier 3.” But your point is well taken. I think I was enjoying several bottles of Yuengling Beer when I did that section. It’s the only way I can explain the order in which I listed them. Fixed.

galzohar · 12/17/07, 3:40 PM

For a healer basically every stat can potentially be wasted. mana stats are wasted if you had any mana left at the end of the fight. Haste is wasted if you didn't do your max HPS at any point in the fight or if you went oom before the end and people died as a result. +healign is wasted as well if all your heals healed for more than the health deficit of your target. You can even say DPS is wasted if you're not hitting the enrage timer and nobody is dying because DPS is too slow.

The real question you should be asking yourself is "which stat is least likely to be wasted for me?" Which depends on your current gear, the buffs you're receiving from the raid (mostly shadow priest support) and the nature of the fight. But remember at the end if a healer doesn't have "wasted stats" he probably doesn't have enough stats and your raid is going to wipe. At the end having "wasted mana", "wasted +healing" or "wasted haste" in facts makes it so you're actually overkilling the encounter which increases the level of certainity you have for 1-shotting it. Problem is determining which of those stats is more likely to not be wasted if things go bad.

Nacht · 12/17/07, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

Nature’s Guardian: You get automatically healed every 5 to 10 seconds if you take damage and fall below 30% health. It will proc off any type of damage. Plus, the heal reduces your threat. And it scales well, restoring 10% of your total health. It’s a must-have talent for resto PVP and highly desirable for shamans who raid.

I still don't like the wording of this description. Remove the 10 second part.

All there is to it is this, if you are currently at any amount of HP and you take a hit that results in you being left with 29% HP or less, then there is a 50% chance of being healed for 10% of your total HP immediately after taking the hit. It heals you after the damage from the hit is applied, so if the damage takes you to 0%, it doesn't proc. It cannot proc more than once every 5 seconds. That sound clear enough?

Ghando · 12/17/07, 3:53 PM

Mp5 value isn't just dynamic based on the fight, it's dynamic based on your progression. I use a lot more mp5 while learning fights, and as you master and farm them a number of things happen. Healer gear gets better, DPS gear gets better so fights end faster, and healers get more efficient with their tasks with experience. So I go from slamming 10 SMPs over a 23-minute Illidan kill to using 5 Unstable pots over a 13-minute kill, despite dropping mp5 in the interim. The Water Shield and Mana Spring changes are obviously huge. I'm sticking with around a 5:1 value of healing:mp5 on gear, and emphasizing healing in my gem choices...especially considering that +healing scales so well with Chain Heal.

Whereas I used to use the int-mp5 talasites/seasprays in yellow sockets (royal nightseye/shadowsong in reds and blues, always), I've switched to full luminous pyrestones. In a couple red-socket items I've considered using +healing spinels, but those are always in such demand (and will be when Sunwell comes out) that it seems extravagant.

Regarding haste rating...it's okay. It's certainly not a poor choice anymore, but it remains situational. For a DPS class haste translates directly into more damage, which is inherently good. For a healer it translates into more output, which is generally positive but not inherently good. Pretty much the only fight where I swap out my Scarab is Council, where it's an endurance/patience trial and the haste procs tend to increase my mana consumption rate faster than I'd like. For fights like Teron and RoS, where I'm just dumping heals as fast as I can, haste is great.

PSGarak · 12/17/07, 4:02 PM

The one thing in favor of haste-procs is that, since they proc off of spellcasts at a constant probability, they're more likely to proc (per time interval) when you're chain-casting, which is when you would most want them and when you would most be able to take advantage of them. The procs will tend to cluster more around their own ideal circumstances. However, the internal cooldown more than anything else is really what upsets that sort of statistical dependability. If you happen to get "lucky" too soon not only is the proc wasted then, it's also unavailable later.

And I'm going to chime in here that healing, compared to say dps, obeys threshold mechanics more than it obeys MOAR=GUD mechanics. You need more regen, until you can last the fight. You need more +healing, until your throughput matches the damage the raid is taking. There is of course room for letting personal skill stretch your abilities in favor of one or the other, but the stat weighting for healing is probably better defined by a piecewise function than a solid set of weights.

Ghando · 12/17/07, 4:07 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

For a healer basically every stat can potentially be wasted. mana stats are wasted if you had any mana left at the end of the fight. Haste is wasted if you didn't do your max HPS at any point in the fight or if you went oom before the end and people died as a result. +healign is wasted as well if all your heals healed for more than the health deficit of your target.

I realize you're trying to state a larger absolute principle, but I think you're being too clinical about it. You don't want to finish every fight on your last drop of mana. What if your amazing DPS ignored those parasites and shit hit the proverbial fan? What if somebody pulled aggro on RoS and it charged into your caster camp? What if you get some bad FA ports and you lose a bunch of healers all at once? Any time shit goes down and you have to pick up that slack or make a big save, you'll be spending a lot of mana to hold things together and pacing yourself to be dry at the end is irresponsible. Looking back at our first Illidan kill, I have about 50% mana at 8%. Then parasites run amok and people start dying and all the surviving healers are spamming their fastest heals to hold it together. I'm basically dry when Illidan dies.

Maybe you're talking about ideal scenarios, but for me the big appeal of being a healer is the unpredictability and imprecision. You can't ever be perfect. Itemization should address your playstyle, play to the strengths of your class and its mechanics and put you in a position to excel. I think it's silly to look at those decisions as minimizing waste.

Wednesday · 12/17/07, 4:13 PM

If you're going to spam a low rank HW to proc ancestral healing and healing way, you may as well spam rank 2 as it lines up more neatly with the GCD and your regen should still cover the mana cost.

Ghando · 12/17/07, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wednesday

If you're going to spam a low rank HW to proc ancestral healing and healing way, you may as well spam rank 2 as it lines up more neatly with the GCD and your regen should still cover the mana cost.

If you spec 5/5 Tidal Focus and use Totem of the Maelstrom, rank 1 is 0 mana. If you're spamming it, you can regen outside of the 5-second rule. Even for a non-spirit-itemizing class, it's substantially more regen. "Lining up" the global cooldowns doesn't really matter unless you have error speech on :P

Daidalos · 12/17/07, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by Ghando

If you spec 5/5 Tidal Focus and use Totem of the Maelstrom, rank 1 is 0 mana. If you're spamming it, you can regen outside of the 5-second rule. Even for a non-spirit-itemizing class, it's substantially more regen. "Lining up" the global cooldowns doesn't really matter unless you have error speech on :P

Also spamming rank 1 with maelstrom if you have [Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker] you regen outside of the 5s rule and gain the mana back from the proc. Unless they nerfed that recently (I haven't done that since learning kael but it was a nice little bonus at the time).

aureon · 12/17/07, 5:30 PM

I believe haste is one of the most valuable healing stats to date, as it adds incredible versatility to shamans in combining the base heal alongside with +healing effects. This also allows for greater saves in the "oh shit" moments when it’s held in larger amounts, and it can also be used to increase movement in heavy traveling fights while keeping healing maximized. On top of everything, it boosts the effect of nearly every trinket listed.

So first off, adding the ability to increase output beyond what +healing allows is one of its main features, since it encompasses output from the base spell as well as the +healing added onto it; therefore, it scales better than any other healing stat, in terms of straight output. As a consequence, it is also quite valuable with healing trinkets. However, to allow for this increased output you would need great regen or a large mana poll. But in some cases this is a moot point, since there are several fights it seems like Teron Gorefiend where mana is not a problem, and only output is. Also with increased output in less time allows for greater movement with the same output that someone would have without haste. In SSC and TK, the ability to heal then move is completely necessary in nearly all of the fights, so it adds increased ability to keep the raid alive, as well as keeping yourself alive. The only problem I currently see is that there is not enough haste gear in the game to make it as viable, but we could very well see at level 80 the ability to choose between haste and healing for how you want to increase your output.

Binkenstein · 12/17/07, 5:47 PM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

The one thing in favor of haste-procs is that, since they proc off of spellcasts at a constant probability, they're more likely to proc (per time interval) when you're chain-casting, which is when you would most want them and when you would most be able to take advantage of them. The procs will tend to cluster more around their own ideal circumstances. However, the internal cooldown more than anything else is really what upsets that sort of statistical dependability. If you happen to get "lucky" too soon not only is the proc wasted then, it's also unavailable later.

Only if there isn't an internal cooldown on the proc, which both MSD & Scarab have. Then chain casting until you get it, doing nothing until the internal cooldown is up, and chain casting again would get the same number of procs as constant chain casting.

Iku · 12/17/07, 7:24 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

And how many times have you thought "if only my meta/trinket had proc'd"?

Not once. I see those procs as a nice bonus, nothing to rely on. If i'm getting behind in healing for some reason, it can help me to catch up again. I can remember several occasions where an MSD proc definitely prevented a wipe, or at least the death of some melees.
The mana gain from the ISD can be compensated by other gear choices, while the MSD proc is unique.

Archimonde with pre-nerf MSD, Scarab and the pre-nerf T5 4 piece bonus, with some haste stuff added, was awesome

Vema · 12/17/07, 8:53 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

[Insightful Earthstorm Diamond]

It has a 2% chance to proc off any spell cast, including totems and water shield. You then gain 300 mana from “Mana Restore.”

While the tooltip of the spell still says "2% Chance" I believe that this meta was changed in 2.3 to be 5%. Both Thott and Wowhead list the same, both being 5%. If it was changed this meta-gem seems significantly more valuable.

I see modeling the gem as a passive mp5 helps to simplify things, but spells/minute tends to vary widely, particularly as a healer. It seems to make more sense to me to model the effect as a flat -mana cost to each spell, -6 if its 2% or -15 if its 5%.

Raglu · 12/17/07, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Nacht

If you are currently at any amount of HP and you take a hit that results in you being left with 29% HP or less, then there is a 50% chance of being healed for 10% of your total HP immediately after taking the hit. It heals you after the damage from the hit is applied, so if the damage takes you to 0%, it doesn't proc. It cannot proc more than once every 5 seconds.

Just copy what Nacht put there. Its the most clear and concise description of Earth Shield here. And mention the threat reduction.

I have to say, I think the perception of haste to a spellcaster DPS in comparison to haste to a healer is a bit skewed. When a mage grabs haste, they get only their DPS increased. Instead of, "More damage in the same amount of time," it's "Same damage in less time," which is in almost all parameters, the exact same thing. Spamming 7 fireballs and 1 scorch on repeat is not much of a sweat-breaker and doesn't require the same reaction as a healer needs when something happens. If the boss moves slightly out of range during the fight, the mage simply gets back in range and continues his spell rotation, maybe missing one fireball in that rotation.

Therefore, spell haste simply increases DPS and has no other real value to a mage other than its singular numeric benefit.

Once that tank moves out of range to follow that boss, however, the healer has to break his/her own spell and follow along and make sure that the tank doesn't die within 3 seconds if a hit is landed. If you're gonna get that heal spell off in time, spell haste may make the difference- you need that sucker's health UP!

While numerically, spell haste is equal to DPS as it is to healers, having spell haste has the benefit of aiding player reaction. Spell haste does not help out with HPM, but it's got the value of helping buff against screw-ups.