How to Heal like a Pro - Page 35

• Binkenstein · 03/31/08, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet. It's quite impressive. I'll let Daidalos and our other resident mathematicians (Hey, Binkenstein!) vet your formulas and then I'll update the first post with the correct information. Wowwiki has a lot of bad information when it comes to shaman spells. The numbers it gives were perhaps correct at some point but not any more (just a guess).

Any chance you could add an option to the top for the Tier 6 set bonuses similar to the option for the Tier 4?

I've had a quick look at it, it looks ok although more options for other tier bonuses would be useful.
Most of my time is consumed by work atm, and anything left over is spent on playing wow or elemental stuff

Once I get a working version of SEIC (new version of ShamStats) I'll see about making a resto version

Rhaegal · 03/31/08, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by thescreensavers

I just got [Vial of the Sunwell]
and I want to know if its any good.

I picked up one of these last Tuesday as well (I've seen it drop 3 times and still no [Shard of Contempt]

), and have been playing with it for a while. I made a post on my own guild's forums with some information I've garnered from personal testing. Some of the points refer to what I've read about the way the trinket worked on the PTR.

1) The max range on the heal is 40 yards, not 10.
2) The heal does not pop a GCD, so you can hit it quickly between casts for a truly free extra (instant!) heal. Effectively gives shaman a second instant-heal on a 2 min CD.
3) The stacking Holy Energy buff never fades. It doesn't have a timer. You keep the stacks indefinitely until you use them, even if you change gear, log out, zone (don't know about zoning into arena), etc. If you swap the trinket out, you keep the buff, and can use it after you re-equip it (after the standard 30 second wait for any use ability).
4) You can use the heal while silenced. It saved our ass on a bad silence on a very healer-light Gruul yesterday.
5) It cannot be spell stolen. I assume this means it also can't be purged, but I don't know about Mass Dispel.
6) It only seems to stack when casting direct heals and HoTs. Casting Earth Shield doesn't increase the stack, nor do the charges of Earth Shield when they go off. My guess is that things like Power Word: Shield also won't increase stacks.
7) The healing done is increased by Fel Armor and the rogue talent. I assume this means it's also subject to being decreased by things like MS, Wound Poison, etc., as you'd expect.
8) It can crit, and crits for 1.5x like all other heals. Unsurprisingly, the crit rate seems to be independent of your spell crit rate, though a holy paladin would probably be better equipped to confirm this than me.

Ultimately, I think the biggest arguments in favor of this trinket are #2 and #4, and I equip it on any fight where it's likely that I'll need an "oh crap" heal. I will occasionally swap it out for a passive +heal trinket, but I really like the utility of the instant-heal this trinket provides.

[e] Note that even if the stack doesn't stay when you zone into arena, it only takes 20 seconds to build up the full stack of 20 charges, as the GCD on rank 1 HW is 1.0 sec now.

Bokomatic · 04/01/08, 7:09 AM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

The base is about 4.4% in my calculations I use 4.3636

I tried to check if this value (4.3636%) corresponds with my experimental data and found that it doesn't.

A little example:

HST was dropped with +2299 HealingBonus.
I see ticks for 163 and 164. So actual tick value is contained in the [163.0;164.0] range.

Calculate now scaling coefficient for lower and upper limits of interval.

TickBonus = Tick / ( PurificationCoeff * RestorativeTotemCoeff ) - 18;
ScalingCoeff = TickBonus/HealingBonus = ( Tick / ( PurificationCoeff * RestorativeTotemCoeff ) - 18 ) / HealingBonus ;

ScalingCoeffLo = ( 163 / ( 1.25 * 1.1 ) - 18 ) / 2299 = 4.3734%
ScalingCoeffHi = ( 164 / ( 1.25 * 1.1 ) - 18 ) / 2299 = 4.4051%

So actual scaling coefficient are in [ 4.3734%; 4.4051%] interval. And 4.3636% isn't contained in this interval.
These calculations can be seen in the new version of spreadsheet (at 'HS coeff' sheet): DivShare File - RSSss_v101.zip

Could you post your HST ticks values for 3k+ healing bonuses?

Daidalos · 04/01/08, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

I picked up one of these last Tuesday as well (I've seen it drop 3 times and still no [Shard of Contempt]

), and have been playing with it for a while. I made a post on my own guild's forums with some information I've garnered from personal testing. Some of the points refer to what I've read about the way the trinket worked on the PTR.

1) The max range on the heal is 40 yards, not 10.
2) The heal does not pop a GCD, so you can hit it quickly between casts for a truly free extra (instant!) heal. Effectively gives shaman a second instant-heal on a 2 min CD.
3) The stacking Holy Energy buff never fades. It doesn't have a timer. You keep the stacks indefinitely until you use them, even if you change gear, log out, zone (don't know about zoning into arena), etc. If you swap the trinket out, you keep the buff, and can use it after you re-equip it (after the standard 30 second wait for any use ability).
4) You can use the heal while silenced. It saved our ass on a bad silence on a very healer-light Gruul yesterday.
5) It cannot be spell stolen. I assume this means it also can't be purged, but I don't know about Mass Dispel.
6) It only seems to stack when casting direct heals and HoTs. Casting Earth Shield doesn't increase the stack, nor do the charges of Earth Shield when they go off. My guess is that things like Power Word: Shield also won't increase stacks.
7) The healing done is increased by Fel Armor and the rogue talent. I assume this means it's also subject to being decreased by things like MS, Wound Poison, etc., as you'd expect.
8) It can crit, and crits for 1.5x like all other heals. Unsurprisingly, the crit rate seems to be independent of your spell crit rate, though a holy paladin would probably be better equipped to confirm this than me.

Ultimately, I think the biggest arguments in favor of this trinket are #2 and #4, and I equip it on any fight where it's likely that I'll need an "oh crap" heal. I will occasionally swap it out for a passive +heal trinket, but I really like the utility of the instant-heal this trinket provides.

[e] Note that even if the stack doesn't stay when you zone into arena, it only takes 20 seconds to build up the full stack of 20 charges, as the GCD on rank 1 HW is 1.0 sec now.

In addition to those notes you can add that the heal also procs the Illidan mace heal.

Daidalos · 04/01/08, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Bokomatic

I tried to check if this value (4.3636%) corresponds with my experimental data and found that it doesn't.

A little example:

HST was dropped with +2299 HealingBonus.
I see ticks for 163 and 164. So actual tick value is contained in the [163.0;164.0] range.

Calculate now scaling coefficient for lower and upper limits of interval.

TickBonus = Tick / ( PurificationCoeff * RestorativeTotemCoeff ) - 18;
ScalingCoeff = TickBonus/HealingBonus = ( Tick / ( PurificationCoeff * RestorativeTotemCoeff ) - 18 ) / HealingBonus ;

ScalingCoeffLo = ( 163 / ( 1.25 * 1.1 ) - 18 ) / 2299 = 4.3734%
ScalingCoeffHi = ( 164 / ( 1.25 * 1.1 ) - 18 ) / 2299 = 4.4051%

So actual scaling coefficient are in [ 4.3734%; 4.4051%] interval. And 4.3636% isn't contained in this interval.
These calculations can be seen in the new version of spreadsheet (at 'HS coeff' sheet): DivShare File - RSSss_v101.zip

Could you post your HST ticks values for 3k+ healing bonuses?

Hm its been a really long time since I last tested but I didn't include pruification in my calculations. I thought I had tested this but I no longer remember if that was the case. I've been pretty busy with sunwell and dailys and othe rep grinding but I'll try to get some data this week. I gathered some data when the ptr was bugged and I had 65k spell dmg but I wasn't very thorough about it

Daidalos · 04/02/08, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bokomatic

wowwiki # Earth_Shield
There is incorrect scaling coefficient (30%). Real is 28.6% per tick.

Note4:
28.03.2008 Corrected Earth Shield in the tables due to changes in 2.4 patch.
I've discovered that Blizzard changed coefficient for ES Rank1. Old one was 28.6%, new one is 26.55% per tick

((
It seems Blizzard applied downranking penalty to ES1 as to lvl54 spell. And didnt tip it in patchnotes, hehe

I hope it can be useful for someone. Thnx 4 attention.

I did some testing last night with 2784+healing and purification talent and I got 979 earth shield ticks on myself.

So assuming
(150+X*2784)*1.1 = 979
solving for x I got .2685 however this is including the down ranking penalty
assuming that the wowwikki downranking is correct ES r2 is learned at
lvl 60 making making ES r1 a lvl 65 spell in effect

so (65/70)C = .2658
solving for c we get .28625

Seems that the coef is the same perhaps the level learned+11 is wrong?

Bokomatic · 04/03/08, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

I did some testing last night with 2784+healing and purification talent and I got 979 earth shield ticks on myself.

So assuming
(150+X*2784)*1.1 = 979
solving for x I got .2685 however this is including the down ranking penalty
assuming that the wowwikki downranking is correct ES r2 is learned at
lvl 60 making making ES r1 a lvl 65 spell in effect

so (65/70)C = .2658
solving for c we get .28625

Seems that the coef is the same perhaps the level learned+11 is wrong?

(level learned+11)/70 are right formula. Ive tested it for HW5-HW12, LHW2-LHW7 and CH1-CH5. It really works.
In the same time (next rank lvl + 5)/70 doesn't work.

As far as i understand you tested EarthShield Rank1.
I just noted in my 1st post that Blizzard applied some penalty to EarthShield Rank1 in patch 2.4. Before this patch scaling coefficients for ES1, ES2 and ES3 were equal (28.6%). Now ES2 and ES3 have 28.6% scaling coeff but ES1 has 26.5% scaling coeff.

I've updated 'ES coeffs' sheet using Min/Max technics (technics of interpreting observed results).
I've added your result for ES1.
New version of spreadsheet can be downloaded here:
DivShare File - RSSSS_v102.zip

Technics description:

1)We never observe _real_ fractional values (non integer), we observe the closest integer values.
So if we observe tick equal to X healing, the real tick are in the (X-1;X+1) bracket.
If we observe ticks equal to X and X+1, the real tick are in the (X;X+1) bracket.

2)So for one experiment we have minimal and maximal possible values for tick.
Accordingly we can calculate 2 values of scaling coefficient - minimal possible and maximal possible.
And real scaling coefficient will be between them (greater than minimal, but lesser than maximal)

So for your result:

ObservedTick=979;
RealTicks are in range (978;980).
ScalingCoefficient are in range (26,55%;26,61%).

In the same manner i've calcualted penalty for EarthShield Rank1.
Penalty are in (92,734%;93,041%) bracket.
Actually ES1 doesn't have some level learned, each shaman gets it at different lvl just from talent tree.
So we cant easy apply downranking rule because we dont know level learned.
On the assumption of downranking nature of this penalty, Blizzard had assigned lvl54 to EarthShield Rank1 and coefficient are 92,8571% that corresponds with obtained bracket.

As conclusion (latest warranted info):

ES2/ES3 scaling coeffs are contained in ( 28,568% ; 28,628% ) bracket
ES1 scaling coeff is contained in ( 26,548% ; 26,580% ) bracket.
ES1 penalty coeff is contained in ( 92,734% ; 93,041% ) bracket
If it is downranking penalty, coeff equals to 92,8571%.

P.S. Daidalos, what about HST experiment?

Daidalos · 04/03/08, 12:02 PM

I saw what you noted about he ES r1 penalty however I am usually in favor of going with the simpler answer. Using the .286 coef there is no need for a downranking penalty other than the already given by blizzard in blue posts. I understand you are arguing it fits other data, however making up a special spenalty for r1 just doesn't sit well with me. Its certainly not impossible and blizzard does do things like this however from my stand point using a .286 coef and the blue post /wiki downranking pentaly makes alot more sense to me.

I'll try to gather some data on HST totem but tonight we will be wiping on felmyst so it won't be until the weekend most likely.

Skyhoof · 04/03/08, 12:28 PM

Many thanks to both Boko and Daidalos for all their testing and mathematical expertise. I updated the main post with the correct +healing coefficients for Earth Shield. I updated the Healing Stream info a few days ago.

I also got the Vial of the Sunwell last night. I will duel a rogue with poisons at my first opportunity to see if the healing effect is diminished as we expect.

Gorillapaws · 04/03/08, 1:40 PM

I'm just getting started in PvE healing on my shammy alt, and am new to healing in general, but I've got a few questions about healing in groups (not so much in raids). Pretty much all of my gear has been S1 gear from farming honor in my downtime since there isn't any resto dungeon gear.

The biggest challenge I've been facing is trying to heal multiple targets when they are spread out too far for chain heal to jump. Mana efficiency isn't really the issue, so much as not having a group heal like priests do. So when lots of people are taking damage, am I best off spamming LHW on the various party members while still using HW on the tank to try to keep healing way going, or should I still be using chain heals on the party since it will jump sometimes? If I had a haste gear set, it would help in this situation, but that's not going to happen for a while. I'm just curious how you guys handle multiple targets taking damage when chain heal isn't very viable like from AoE's etc. Thanks for the advice.

galzohar · 04/03/08, 1:52 PM

Chain heal's range, obviously, isn't random. Learn it and use when applicable. Also teach your party members to stay close enough when it's actually possible. For any further HW/LHW vs CH comments it depends what you're actually running.

Vistol · 04/03/08, 2:01 PM

Some easy tips for healing in 5-mans

1) be pro-active: cast heals in anticipation's of incoming damage, and cancel if not needed.
2) Spam lower rank healing waves on the tank early instead of big bombs: keeps healing way up and more chances for the the armor buff to proc, i use rank 5.
3) spam rank 1 healing wave before the pull on the tank: see above.
3) Chain off yourself: well you may not be able to control where other players set up, you can control where you set up. Move close to someone and chain heal yourself if multiple people (including you) need heals. If chain heal hits two people it was worth the cast.
4) Earth shield is not just for tanks: if you pull healing arrgo on a mob that breaks cc, cast it on yourself, if you see a rogue evade tanking a lose mob toss it on them, put it on mages/locks during AOE pulls.
5) healing stream totem can help a lot we periodic AOE damage, don't be afraid to chug pots early and drop it.

And read this entire thread.

Bokomatic · 04/03/08, 2:15 PM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

I saw what you noted about he ES r1 penalty however I am usually in favor of going with the simpler answer. Using the .286 coef there is no need for a downranking penalty other than the already given by blizzard in blue posts. I understand you are arguing it fits other data, however making up a special spenalty for r1 just doesn't sit well with me. Its certainly not impossible and blizzard does do things like this however from my stand point using a .286 coef and the blue post /wiki downranking pentaly makes alot more sense to me.

Hey!

Im strongly disagree with using bluepost/wiki formula (next rank lvl + 5 )/70 for downranking penalty.

Simple example:

Chain Heal Rank3

Lvl Learned = 54
Next Rank Lvl Learned = 61
TooltipMin  = 567
TooltipMax = 646

+Healing = 1758
ExperimentalMin  = 2287
ExperimentalMax = 2389

TheoreticalMin = ( Min + Downranking*SpellCoeff*Healing )*Purification*ImpCH =
= ( 567 + Downranking*0.7143*1758 ) *1.1 *1.2 =
= 567*1.32 + Downranking*0.7143*1758*1.32 = 748.4 + downranking*1657.6 ;

TheoreticalMax = ( Max + Downranking*SpellCoeff*Healing )*Purification*ImpCH =
= ( 646 + Downranking*0.7143*1758 ) *1.1 *1.2 =
= 646*1.32 + Downranking*0.7143*1758*1.32 =  852.7 + downranking*1657.6 ;

Where: ImpCH=1.2, Purification=1.1, SpellCoeff = 2.5/3.5 = 0.7143;

WikiDownrank = ( Next Rank Lvl + 5 )/70 = (61+5)/70 = 66/70 = 94,29%
WikiMin =   748.4 + 0.9429*1657.6 = 748.4 + 1563.0 = 2311.4
WikiMax =  852.7 + 0.9429*1657.6 = 852.7 + 1563.0 = 2415.7

RealDownrank = ( Lvl Learned + 11)/70 = (54+11)/70 = 65/70 = 92,86%
RealMin =   748.4 + 0.9286*1657.6 = 748.4 + 1539.2 = 2287.6
RealMax =  852.7 + 0.9286*1657.6 = 852.7 + 1539.2 = 2392.0

As you can see ExperimentalMin=2287 are lesser than WikiMin=2311.4;
If Wiki downranking coefficient would be right we've never got experimental result lesser than minimal theoretical.
So Wiki coefficient seems incorrrect.

In other hand ExperimentalMin/Max are very close to RealMin/Max.
For example ExperimentalMin=2287 are very close to RealMin=2287.6, i think difference is caused by some ingame rounding-off or something like this.

So numbers calculated by formulaes with wiki downranking coefficient ( Next Rank Lvl + 5 )/70 are incorrect,
and with ( Lvl Learned + 11)/70 coefficient are at least more correct.

Notice that in some cases ( next rank lvl + 5 )/70 is equal to ( lvl learned + 11 )/70.
Example:

Chain Heal Rank1
Lvl Learned = 40
Next Rank Lvl Learned = 46

WikiDownrank = ( Next Rank Lvl + 5 )/70 = (46+5)/70 = 51/70 = 72,86%
RealDownrank = ( Lvl Learned + 11)/70 = (40+11)/70 = 51/70 = 72,86%

For ChainHeal3 WikiDownranking was greater than RealDownranking.
In some cases it's contrary.
Example:

Healing Wave Rank10
Lvl Learned = 60
Next Rank Lvl Learned = 63

WikiDownrank = ( Next Rank Lvl + 5 )/70 = (63+5)/70 = 68/70 = 97.14%
RealDownrank = ( Lvl Learned + 11)/70 = (60+11)/70 = 71/70 = 101.43% 
(actually RealDownrank=100% because of 100% limitation)

That's all concerning downrankings. You can choose some spell and remake my experiment, i remade them alot of times.

Gorillapaws · 04/03/08, 2:20 PM

Thanks for the responses, I especially like the point about how you can control your own positioning (something that's easy to forget when you're focusing too much on heath bars and not enough about what's around you). I've read a LOT about healing from the threads here as well as others, but still haven't seen as much info about this particular issue. On the bosses where people are required to spread out because of boss debuffs that will proc when people get too close (Murmer for example). How do you guys usually handle that? Do you spam LHW on all the party members? or do you cast less often and hit party members with HW when they are low enough to benefit from the extra healing?

Daidalos · 04/03/08, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Gorillapaws

Thanks for the responses, I especially like the point about how you can control your own positioning (something that's easy to forget when you're focusing too much on heath bars and not enough about what's around you). I've read a LOT about healing from the threads here as well as others, but still haven't seen as much info about this particular issue. On the bosses where people are required to spread out because of boss debuffs that will proc when people get too close (Murmer for example). How do you guys usually handle that? Do you spam LHW on all the party members? or do you cast less often and hit party members with HW when they are low enough to benefit from the extra healing?

One thing you can always do is pop some +heal clicky trinkets and throw down healing stream. Yeah its not gonna be like dropping 5k heals on them but if they aren't taking alot of direct dmg it can help keep them up till you can spare the time to heal them.

I def agree with the above poster and standing next to others and chain healing yourself I do that all the time. If mana isn't a concern and you need to hit alot of people they are just too spread out thats precisely what LHW is for.

Vistol · 04/03/08, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Gorillapaws

Thanks for the responses, I especially like the point about how you can control your own positioning (something that's easy to forget when you're focusing too much on heath bars and not enough about what's around you). I've read a LOT about healing from the threads here as well as others, but still haven't seen as much info about this particular issue. On the bosses where people are required to spread out because of boss debuffs that will proc when people get too close (Murmer for example). How do you guys usually handle that? Do you spam LHW on all the party members? or do you cast less often and hit party members with HW when they are low enough to benefit from the extra healing?

When it comes to specific encounters most bosses have their own tricks. For Murmur in particular the Earth Elemental is immune to nature damage, use it to tank on the get out/in transition just make sure to heal it. Also one thing people forget sometimes is that all dps can bandage, and if you get the debuff you dam well better bandage before or after. A lot of people are lazy and depend only on the healer or just try and "win" the damage meter and don't think bandaging is worth it.

Don't be afraid to tell people to pot, HS, or bandage before/after X happens, believe me getting the dps to think about your job sometimes will pay-off in the long run.

galzohar · 04/03/08, 4:20 PM

Actually if you tell people to pot/bandage in any 5-man/heroic you'll most likely get some major laughing at your ability to heal. While all these things can really help stay alive, those instances are so easy it feels completely stupid to use them just becuase your healer sucks. And yes if you need bandage/pots you're either suiciding yourself too much or your healer sucks. They're that easy - you can do pretty much all heroics with 1300 healing without much difficulty. But again if your group is also horrible even 2k healing can be a challenge in an instance as easy as heroic mech (try DPS that can't interrupt and doesn't really deal damage, no CC with a 12k HP tank without much armor/avoidance, or better make all 3 dps pvp rogues/warriors).

Vistol · 04/04/08, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by galzohar

Actually if you tell people to pot/bandage in any 5-man/heroic you'll most likely get some major laughing at your ability to heal. While all these things can really help stay alive, those instances are so easy it feels completely stupid to use them just becuase your healer sucks. And yes if you need bandage/pots you're either suiciding yourself too much or your healer sucks. They're that easy - you can do pretty much all heroics with 1300 healing without much difficulty. But again if your group is also horrible even 2k healing can be a challenge in an instance as easy as heroic mech (try DPS that can't interrupt and doesn't really deal damage, no CC with a 12k HP tank without much armor/avoidance, or better make all 3 dps pvp rogues/warriors).

I’m sorry but I don’t really see the point of your comment other than “if you can’t heal 5-mans you suck or your group does”. How is training the dps to think about what the healer(s) is doing a bad idea? Bandage after bad things happen, is mantra more dps need to learn. I responded with a relevant suggestion to above poster for his gear and progression (S1 and Murmur).

Sure most 5-mas are easy, but sometimes things go wrong even for the best groups (fear into a second pack, MC on a shaman and bloodlust popped) and having dps smart enough to bandage when it hits the fan can make all the difference. In my experience most people will listen if a competent healer asks “could you please pot/HS/bandage after X/Y/Z happens, it will make my life a lot easier”.

Yes, the better skilled and geared the group is the less need there is for this kind of thing, but better skilled players already know to do this when things go wrong. The thing is we all had to start somewhere in the quest to be better players.

Skyhoof · 04/04/08, 5:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bokomatic

Hey!

Im strongly disagree with using bluepost/wiki formula (next rank lvl + 5 )/70 for downranking penalty.

It looks like you are onto something. A priest has noticed some of the same type of discrepancies: Spell Coefficients

I would suggest making a new thread in the Class Mechanics forum to discuss this issue.

Originally Posted by Elenmir

I looked at my old data again, adjusted some of it (have to be careful with the base values for spells due to the level-based scaling), and collected some more data to get better bounds and verify some corner cases. As it turns out, the formula from wowwiki seems to be accurate for nearly all spells, with a few notable exceptions.

So:

For spells learned before level 20, there is a penalty that depends only on the level the spell is learned at:

$sub20Penalty = \min(1,1-(20-spellLevel)*0.0375)$

For all spells, there is a penalty that depends on the level of the caster and on the downrankPenaltyLevel of the rank used, i.e. the last level at which there is no downrank penalty for that rank of the spell:

$downrankPenalty = \min(1,\frac{downrankPenaltyLevel}{casterLevel})$

The downrank penalty level is almost always equal to 5 plus the level at which the next rank of the spell is learned.

These penalties apply multiplicatively to the empowered/cast-time coefficient:

$spellCoefficient = sub20Penalty * downrankPenalty * (empoweredTalents + castTimeCoefficient)$

I don't know how the downrank penalties interact with the penalties for things like snares.

I've collected a fair bit of data to get good bounds on the coefficients of all ranks of heal, greater heal, flash heal, and renew. The bulk of the data comes from two sessions, one with a deep holy spec and one with a disc. PvP spec. My data is consistent with the above formulas. All the testing has been done with a level 70 priest, though, so I can't really say anything about the scaling with caster level.

For the spells I've tested, the exceptions to the 'next rank + 5' rule that I've found are:

Greater heal rank 4, 69 (expected 65).
Greater heal rank 5, 70 (expected 68; this is the AQ20 rank).
Heal rank 4, 45 (there's no next rank of this)
Flash heal rank 7, 67 (expected 66)
Renew rank 9, 67 (expected 65; next rank is the AQ20 rank)

Grimtaash · 04/04/08, 6:12 PM

I have recently broken my newly christened level 70 shaman into healing for my guild and I am loving it.

First, we are by no means a cutting edge progression guild. We are plodding along at our own pace through SSC/TK, still doing gruul, mag, and as many karas as we can squeeze in. I started off with a relatively spartan setup: healing wave on 1, chain heal on 2, LHW on 3, NS on 4, ES on 5, so on down the line from most frequent to least frequent. Soon I yearned for more, and quickly upgraded to clique and grid. I have to say the hype has been real! I am tossing out heals the second they are needed, and thanks to clique I can downrank most of the time and go back to the full amount whenever needed. Some might think it turns healing into wack-a-mole, but I've found it really opens up new possibilities that you just can't do without the add-on. Plus, since it freed up my keyboard as compared to my old system, I can more effectively communicate by typing while I'm still clicking to heal, and this is important for me as I'm not an officer/raid leader so it's important for me to maintain radio silence during tense periods of a battle.

Moreover, I've really been enjoying the tweaking that I can do. Yesterday we started making our first attempts on Leotheras the Blind. I figured out the names of the bleed effect (whirlwind) and when someone has an inner demon (demonic whisper) and added it to the debuff list. This way I truly could be a predictive healer, seeing who had bleeds and who had inner demon allowed me to start tossing more heals their way in anticipation of the damage they would be taking.

I also have to chime in to agree with everyone who has espoused the value of +heal > anything else. I never had the misfortune of using the old version of water shield that didn't provide MP5, but in this new world of healing, even with my wimpy heals coming in near the back of the +heals pack, I find that downranking gives me extra mileage on mana and reduces overheal. Not only that, but the argument of the value of crit over heals as a way of enabling AF, I've found downranking has enabled me to cast more often (both by being able to start sooner and going longer without running out of mana) and in a sense keep a better AF uptime.

I realize this is all anecdotal, but since it backs up what's already been established by theorycraft I think it's useful to know that the experience back that up.

In conclusion, thank you to this thread for helping me heal like a pro!

Daidalos · 04/04/08, 7:35 PM

So I have been trying to put together an optimal set of gear for those looking to pick up upgrades in sunwell. I decided to limit it to mail and shield offhand however I may make another list with leather and cloth with caster off hand.

head: [Shroud of Chieftain Ner'zhul]
neck: [Amulet of Flowing Life] [Brooch of Nature's Mercy]
shoudler: [Skyshatter Shoulderpads]
back: [Shroud of the Final Stand]
chest: [Sun-Drenched Scale Chestguard]
wrist: [Skyshatter Bracers]
hands: [Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves]
waist: [Skyshatter Belt]
legs: [Kilt of Spiritual Reconstruction]
feet: [Skyshatter Boots]
ring1: [Blessed Band of Karabor]
ring2: [Blessed Band of Karabor]
weapon: [Crystal Spire of Karabor]
off hand: [Aegis of Angelic Fortune]
trinket1: [Memento of Tyrande]
trinket2: [Redeemer's Alchemist Stone]

05:11:00 called in wowhead_item::start:324 Item not found!

Int 498
Heal 2674 (w/ 15 +22 heal gems)
Crit 24
Haste 287
mp5 173 (+alchemist stone effect ~40mp5)

There might be some more revisions to this for exmaple the JC stuff would replace some of this. Well I'm heading home from work I'll update this more later. I will probably add in the JC stuff and put the next best noncraftable next to the craftables.

Gorillapaws · 04/04/08, 8:55 PM

Originally Posted by Vistol

I’m sorry but I don’t really see the point of your comment other than “if you can’t heal 5-mans you suck or your group does”. How is training the dps to think about what the healer(s) is doing a bad idea? Bandage after bad things happen, is mantra more dps need to learn. I responded with a relevant suggestion to above poster for his gear and progression (S1 and Murmur).

Sure most 5-mas are easy, but sometimes things go wrong even for the best groups (fear into a second pack, MC on a shaman and bloodlust popped) and having dps smart enough to bandage when it hits the fan can make all the difference. In my experience most people will listen if a competent healer asks “could you please pot/HS/bandage after X/Y/Z happens, it will make my life a lot easier”.

Yes, the better skilled and geared the group is the less need there is for this kind of thing, but better skilled players already know to do this when things go wrong. The thing is we all had to start somewhere in the quest to be better players.

I found the suggestion helpful since I truly am a weak healer, not so much because of my gear, but because of my inexperience in healing 5-mans and raids (I'm beginning to appreciate why healing is more of an art than a science--not that there isn't a lot of useful theory to inform your choices though). More importantly, learning to heal on my alt has made me a much better player on my main hunter, because it has forced me to think differently about my health, and tactics I can use to make things easier on the people healing me. Likewise, being a shammy healer gives me lots of useful tools to help my group that I would think about much less if my main wasn't a hunter--particularly with assisting in cc when traps, seductions, and saps break by using earthbind totems, frost shocks or even taking a whack at a mob with a frostbranded mace. Again, thanks for all of the suggestions and advice.

galzohar · 04/04/08, 9:11 PM

On leotheras healing the people that get hit by whirlwind is a good way to die. If your heal lands right after whirlwind ends you'll be the first target and die. Of course if you don't heal them they may die instead, but they'll learn to not get hit next time - and honestly it's not hard to not get hit. If you can actually heal them clearly before whirlwind ends or they're actually still alive after the tank has solid aggro you can try heal them, but most of the time it's simply not possible to heal people that get hit by the whirlwind.

In other words at the start of the whirlwind you should be running away to not get hit, at the end you're afraid of aggro and after the tank has aggro those who got hit are usually already dead. Just keep telling them it's completely possible for EVERYONE except the main tank to completely avoid damage from whirlwind. Melee will have to run out early (5 seconds before the coodown is over) and everyone else need to be max range and run as far away as they can in a straight line away from him (make sure your positioning allows this in advance!). Keep in mind whirlwind is a cooldown and not a timed ability so he can use it anywhere between 0 seconds to a long time after the cooldown is over - don't let your melee be mislead by it as while 1 time they may manage running out as the timer hits 0 and whirlwind will only start 5s later and they'll be safe, the next time he'll roll whirlwind right as the cooldown is over and kill them all. And like I just explained nobody can actually heal them safely so it's just going to go downhill from there.

As for inner demons only 1 healer really needs to be assigned for those, although everyone can FFA heal at that phase until the demon phase tank has 4+ debuffs (possibly more for a demonology or high HP improved defensive stance warrior tank) on him and at that time every single healer except the one assigned inner demon healer should be healing him, as he is going to be taking some very random bursts. Max resist means 75% of the attacks will do 0 damage while the other 25% will hit and stack another debuff, so after a few are stacked getting hit twice in a row (12.5% chance) can completely kill him if no heals land in between. Since the attack speed is faster than most heals' casting speed, it's important to have a lot of heals channeling on him at any given time especially once he's past "the 2-shot point" (where 2 hits in a row would gib him).

Anyway putting relevent debuffs on your raidframes is an extremely useful tool to use. Just don't use it to kill yourself on leo by healing people that shouldn't have gotten hit in the firstplace. Anyway this fight is really not the place to test healing skills The amount of damage taken by the tanks and raid is extremely small, the real challenge is not getting hit by whirlwind, not pulling aggro on transitions and not losing the demon tank when the debuffs stack high.

Mandrachalos · 04/04/08, 11:57 PM

I am pretty sure, the Wowhead info about the pretty new 5% proc rate on Insightful Meta gem is rignt - only on a side note.

I have been following this discussion for quite a while and it is pretty much the highest quality discussion I know about shaman healing - although I don't agree with the majority all the time, mostly though.

What I see as astonishing lately is the reluctance towards the value of +haste in this thread.

It may be because I raid with a RF which has no elemental shaman and a bunch of mana, BL and Drums of Battle greedy mage/lock bastards - which means I am usually in group with 2-3 mages (or lock) and 1 SP.
So that means I dont care so much about mana in raids than the usual resto shaman; I am aware of that.

In this position +haste is always a great alternative to MP5 and also always has to be weighed against +healing. As an alchemist and already exalted with SSO ,and having the trinket, I just prefer to drink potions than to lose efficiency - who cares about money? AH grinding ftw. ;P

So what I am trying to say is that +haste is really much more valuable than the general opinion here seems to be as long as you have a SP in group. And I know that +healing is usually the best to go for. But for instance when I have to chose a yellow gem, I think the +10 haste is a better choice than +11 healing and+5 int for most fights. Stll the +22 rules them all ofc. But I still like my insightful earthstorm diamond and that one makes me want 2 yellow gems.

Grimtaash · 04/05/08, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by galzohar

...snip...
Anyway putting relevant debuffs on your raidframes is an extremely useful tool to use. Just don't use it to kill yourself on leo by healing people that shouldn't have gotten hit in the firstplace. Anyway this fight is really not the place to test healing skills The amount of damage taken by the tanks and raid is extremely small, the real challenge is not getting hit by whirlwind, not pulling aggro on transitions and not losing the demon tank when the debuffs stack high.

Definitely some great advice, and constructive too! Generally I had little trouble avoiding the whirlwind, but I hadn't realized that, unlike the whirlwind that Kargath from SH does, Leo's whirlwind was primarily avoidable by most of the raid. I assumed that some people were just going to get hit. I'll have to make sure to pass on that info to our raiding forums. This begs the question though: what are some encounters where the healers end up getting the wheat separated from the chaff?