How to Heal like a Pro - Page 36

vorda · 04/05/08, 4:18 PM

what are some encounters where the healers end up getting the wheat separated from the chaff?

I personally found Kalecgos a very very good test of 'skills', partially due to our tactics as well. (4 pre set groups, means that at a certain point your healers need to be very aware of where the other healers are or the tank is left with 0 healers)

Council was a nice test of environmental awareness, the points where illidan goes wrong and your raid has to reposition completely (like a tank going for a trap on the grid) and in general any fight where a healer has to make a call of who to prioritise.
I know that for shamans this is less the case then for paladins, but for paladins you can see a very clear difference in 5 mans when alot of people are taking damage. Deciding who to heal first based on factors such as 'can he survive on his own' 'how vital to the groups survival is he' can make a very big difference.

Besides kalecgos, you can say in general: "when fights go really wrong". Brutallus with too many burns up, etc.

One thing that sometimes tells me a shaman is on autopilot is seeing him throw a max rank CH on someone who doesn't even have anyone close to him. (a good UI and a general 'feeling' of where most people are helps alot)

galzohar · 04/05/08, 6:59 PM

For shamans, I've seen quite a few fail at solo healing the priest's tank on fathom lord where lesser geaered shamans succeeded. You only need 1 healer there that can also earthshock the heals. While you can have a rogue help (which you'll need either rogue for mind numbing or lock for CoTongues to make the heal slow enough to interrupt), the rogue can get frozen or get the kick missed (or at least dodged even if hit capped) so you still need to be on top of interrupts while keeping the tank, yourself and the rogue/lock up. It's not actually that hard but I've experienced a couple healers that simply couldn't handle it.

I can't think of many other fights where you can actually see wether a healer is good or not, but just about any fight that requires avoiding taking damage while doing your normal healing/dps can tell you who's gkick material and who's a core group material. Recount helps (or at least did before 2.4) a lot with its "death meters" showing you the last 8-12s or so before the person's death so you see exactly what killed him and who healed him which tells you what damage he didn't avoid and/or who didn't heal him that might've been supposed to be healing. A good example for this is seeing who died to whirlwind (although that shows easily enough on your raidframes) and who gets hit by a strider on vashj P2 (which is another thing you should stay away from and never hit by), or worse - flame patches on al'ar and poison clouds on vashj P3.

wilfan · 04/05/08, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Grimtaash

This begs the question though: what are some encounters where the healers end up getting the wheat separated from the chaff?

There are two healing intensive encounters BT: Najentus and Bloodboil. Both favor carpet healing, so shamans have it easy there, at least for topping the meters. Then there's Rage Winterchill, which is trivial, but going through it without a single loss to ice bolt isn't, at least in the beginning. Council also does some separation, but it separates people who know how to stand outside of bad things from those that can't.

But personally, I was stressed the most when we were learning Vashj. I was healing tanks and melee and was always borderline OOM even when chaining resto drums and potions with Alch. Stone. I was also quite new to healing, having switched my main two months ago. Gear didn't help, as it was mostly Kara with an odd blue and T6 LW shoulders. I learned more about WoW during that period than ever.

shockeffect · 04/06/08, 3:58 PM

I just recently hit exalted with shattered sun and scryers, and other than the healing and mp5 on the neck, which seem pretty good, i am curious as to wether or not anyone has looked into the effectiveness of the proc from the neck. I have tried searching, but have found nothing(i very well might have missed it). If anyone has any ideas or information, i would love to hear it.

Daidalos · 04/07/08, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Mandrachalos

I am pretty sure, the Wowhead info about the pretty new 5% proc rate on Insightful Meta gem is rignt - only on a side note.

I have been following this discussion for quite a while and it is pretty much the highest quality discussion I know about shaman healing - although I don't agree with the majority all the time, mostly though.

What I see as astonishing lately is the reluctance towards the value of +haste in this thread.

It may be because I raid with a RF which has no elemental shaman and a bunch of mana, BL and Drums of Battle greedy mage/lock bastards - which means I am usually in group with 2-3 mages (or lock) and 1 SP.
So that means I dont care so much about mana in raids than the usual resto shaman; I am aware of that.

In this position +haste is always a great alternative to MP5 and also always has to be weighed against +healing. As an alchemist and already exalted with SSO ,and having the trinket, I just prefer to drink potions than to lose efficiency - who cares about money? AH grinding ftw. ;P

So what I am trying to say is that +haste is really much more valuable than the general opinion here seems to be as long as you have a SP in group. And I know that +healing is usually the best to go for. But for instance when I have to chose a yellow gem, I think the +10 haste is a better choice than +11 healing and+5 int for most fights. Stll the +22 rules them all ofc. But I still like my insightful earthstorm diamond and that one makes me want 2 yellow gems.

I"m not sure what you mean by general opinion but in the OP on this is thread:

"Many shaman find that when put in a group with a shadow priest, they cannot use their mana fast enough. Often, our mana bar will never drop below 50% due to the shadow priest, water shield, mana spring and other buffs. Many shaman also wear haste gear on trash since they can drink after each pull.

By wearing gear with spell haste, we can cast spells faster, boosting our overall healing done for a fight – and potentially have heals landing faster to prevent deaths"

Yes haste is good you need to balance it with +heal since +22heal can be more HPS than 10haste. I'm fairly sure everyone understands the strength of haste. Its just that not everyone has a spirest.

Skyhoof · 04/07/08, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by galzohar

On leotheras healing the people that get hit by whirlwind is a good way to die. If your heal lands right after whirlwind ends you'll be the first target and die. Of course if you don't heal them they may die instead, but they'll learn to not get hit next time - and honestly it's not hard to not get hit. If you can actually heal them clearly before whirlwind ends or they're actually still alive after the tank has solid aggro you can try heal them, but most of the time it's simply not possible to heal people that get hit by the whirlwind.
...snip...
And like I just explained nobody can actually heal them safely so it's just going to go downhill from there.

I heal people all the time when they are hit by the whirlwind. The whirlwind does a total of about 20,000 damage over 12 seconds. Without a heal, there is no way for a player to survive -- even if they bandage, use health pots and health stones.

Any boss mod will tell you when human phase is going to end. Simply stop healing for a few seconds before he goes back to demon phase. Whirlwind is a DoT so the player won't die immediately. Once the tank picks up Leo, you can continue healing those who got hit with the whirlwind.

If we didn't heal players who make mistakes, there would be very few players left standing at the end of a fight.

Zaffron · 04/07/08, 11:56 AM

I've just read this thread from page 1 to the end, took me a long time. While I have looked at some of the theorycraft behind the class, I haven't really delved deep. This is slightly embarassing as I have been a healing shaman from dinging 70, through instances, heroics, Kara and onwards, am currently in MH and BT and am only jsut thinking now that some of my spec and gear choices seem strange.
I hope this is the right thread to ask these questions, if not, I apologise.

First of all, my spec is 8/0/53. I find elemental invaluable in certain fights and certainly do not miss Ancestral Knowledge (my first healing spec). I have however noticed many people in this thread putting the emphasis on crit for Ancestral Healing (which I do have). I have 4/5 in Totemic Focus, 0 in Tidal Mastery. A mere 9.17% crit from my gear. As far as I can gather it would be worthwhile for me to respec to remove the 4/5 in Totemic Focus and put them in Tidal Mastery? I still heal quite a few heroics so I don't feel ready to give up Healing Grace just yet.

My gear level is 2 T4 and 2 T5. I have a few kara bits left but most others are non set pieces from TK+. Trinkets are Essence of the Matyr and Pendant of the Violet Eye.
My stats are as follows:
Health: 7589
Mana: 10118
Heal: 1858
Mana Regen while casting: 175 (no WS or MS)
Crit: 9.17%

Reading through it seems I have put entirely too much weight on mana regen. 225 with water shield seemed to be fine, but afer seeing that many T5 and 6 shamans have less has made me think this is wrong. My gems are all Royal Nightseye, Luminous Noble Topaz and a few Dazzling Talasites. I'm thinking I should remove some of these and put in straight healing gems, but I'm worried about losing too much mana regen. Unless the fight is really intensive healing I usually end up on around 30-40% mana left but many times on longer fights I'm using 2+ mana tides and some pots and ending on 10% or so mana. Editing to add, I cannot guarantee I will always have a shadowpriest in my groups. I'd say about 40-50% of fights I do, but sometimes I am in a melee group, or in a caster group without a spriest. The mana I indicated earlier is when I am not in a spriest group. With one, I end on around 50-70% depending on healing intensity. Though of course, on the hardest fights, even with a spriest I can end on 10% or so mana.
I downrank to rank 1 and 4 chainheal depending on how heavy damage is and my main HW rank is 10 with a max rank when I know someone is about to take a huge hit. Am I using too high a rank of my spells?

And finally my trinkets. I feel that my mana pool is low compared to other healers, so I have clung religiously to my Pendant of the Violet Eye, the regen is also nice on healing heavy fights, and especially nice in a lull where I equip my Totem of The Maelstrom, use the trinket and spam rank 1 HW for some nice extra mp5, as well as healing way and armour buff on the tank. Should I be switching the Pendant for a better trinket? It would push me back under 10k mana which I would have thought is low, but perhaps I am wrong.

Any pointers would be lovely, and I'll carry on watching this thread for more interesting theorycraft, though some of the maths is over my head.

Skyhoof · 04/07/08, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

So I have been trying to put together an optimla set of gear for those looking to pick up upgrades in sunwell. I decided to limit it to mail and shield offhand however I may make another list with leather and cloth with caster off hand.

head: Shroud of Chieftain Ner'zhul
neck: Brooch of Nature's Mercy
shoudler: Skyshatter Shoulderpads
back: Shroud of the Final Stand
chest: Sun-Drenched Scale Ghestguard
wrist: Skyshatter Bracers
hands: Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves
waist: Skyshatter Belt
legs: Kilt of Spiritual Reconstruction
feet: Skyshatter Boots
ring1: Blessed Band of Karabor
ring2: Blessed Band of Karabor
weapon: Crystal Spire of Karabor
off hand: Aegis of Angelic Fortune
trinket1: Memento of Tyrande
trinket2: Redeemer's alchemist stone

Int 498
Heal 2674 (w/ 15 +22 heal gems)
Crit 24
Haste 287
mp5 173 (+alchemist stone effect ~40mp5)

There might be some more revisions to this for exmaple the JC stuff would replace some of this. Well I'm heading home from work I'll update this more later. I will probably add in the JC stuff and put the next best noncraftable next to the craftables.

I got some slightly different figures but it could be due to differences in gemming and enchants. I get a total of 14 gems slots (excluding the meta gem). The ideal way to gem the gear would be 12 reds, 1 blue (legs) and 1 yellow (helm). Therefore, I used a Bracing Earthstorm Diamond in the meta gem slot.

Here are the enchants I used on the gear listed above:

Helm Glyph of Renewal
Shoulder Greater Inscription of Faith
Back None
Chest Restore Mana Prime
Wrist Superior Healing
Hands Major Healing
Legs Golden Spellthread
Feet Boar's Speed
Ring 1 None
Ring 2 None
Weapon Major Healing
Shield Major Stamina

Int 491
Stam 550
Heal 2569 (w/ 13 +22 heal gems)
Crit 36 (16 on boots and 20 on belt)
Haste 269
mp5 211 (+alchemist stone effect ~40mp5)

I will play around with changing the gear in a few slots and post the results.

Daidalos · 04/07/08, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Zaffron

I've just read this thread from page 1 to the end, took me a long time. While I have looked at some of the theorycraft behind the class, I haven't really delved deep. This is slightly embarassing as I have been a healing shaman from dinging 70, through instances, heroics, Kara and onwards, am currently in MH and BT and am only jsut thinking now that some of my spec and gear choices seem strange.
I hope this is the right thread to ask these questions, if not, I apologise.

First of all, my spec is 8/0/53. I find elemental invaluable in certain fights and certainly do not miss Ancestral Knowledge (my first healing spec). I have however noticed many people in this thread putting the emphasis on crit for Ancestral Healing (which I do have). I have 4/5 in Totemic Focus, 0 in Tidal Mastery. A mere 9.17% crit from my gear. As far as I can gather it would be worthwhile for me to respec to remove the 4/5 in Totemic Focus and put them in Tidal Mastery? I still heal quite a few heroics so I don't feel ready to give up Healing Grace just yet.

My gear level is 2 T4 and 2 T5. I have a few kara bits left but most others are non set pieces from TK+. Trinkets are Essence of the Matyr and Pendant of the Violet Eye.
My stats are as follows:
Health: 7589
Mana: 10118
Heal: 1858
Mana Regen while casting: 175 (no WS or MS)
Crit: 9.17%

Reading through it seems I have put entirely too much weight on mana regen. 225 with water shield seemed to be fine, but afer seeing that many T5 and 6 shamans have less has made me think this is wrong. My gems are all Royal Nightseye, Luminous Noble Topaz and a few Dazzling Talasites. I'm thinking I should remove some of these and put in straight healing gems, but I'm worried about losing too much mana regen. Unless the fight is really intensive healing I usually end up on around 30-40% mana left but many times on longer fights I'm using 2+ mana tides and some pots and ending on 10% or so mana. Editing to add, I cannot guarantee I will always have a shadowpriest in my groups. I'd say about 40-50% of fights I do, but sometimes I am in a melee group, or in a caster group without a spriest. The mana I indicated earlier is when I am not in a spriest group. With one, I end on around 50-70% depending on healing intensity. Though of course, on the hardest fights, even with a spriest I can end on 10% or so mana.
I downrank to rank 1 and 4 chainheal depending on how heavy damage is and my main HW rank is 10 with a max rank when I know someone is about to take a huge hit. Am I using too high a rank of my spells?

And finally my trinkets. I feel that my mana pool is low compared to other healers, so I have clung religiously to my Pendant of the Violet Eye, the regen is also nice on healing heavy fights, and especially nice in a lull where I equip my Totem of The Maelstrom, use the trinket and spam rank 1 HW for some nice extra mp5, as well as healing way and armour buff on the tank. Should I be switching the Pendant for a better trinket? It would push me back under 10k mana which I would have thought is low, but perhaps I am wrong.

Any pointers would be lovely, and I'll carry on watching this thread for more interesting theorycraft, though some of the maths is over my head.

I"d stop worrying about numbers and start looking at your experiences.
1. Are you running out of mana?
2. If not stop worrying about mana pool and regen. If you are can you chain pot to resolve this?
3. If you are not running out of mana get more +healing and a little haste.
4. Healing grace is fairly weak for pve even in heroics. If you are worried about initial aggro earth shield and healing stream for a few secs to allow tank to get aggro. 5 crit is way better than reduced aggro or cheaper totems.
5. HW10 is fairly high for a "keep tank topped off heal" try something lower like rank 8.
6. For me I'd rather pot all the time with more +healing than only have to pot sometimes but not being able to heal as much. Alch stone is a great benefit here.

Vistol · 04/07/08, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zaffron

I
Any pointers would be lovely, and I'll carry on watching this thread for more interesting theorycraft, though some of the maths is over my head.

To be frank, what works for one person may not be what is best for you. This is a guide offering information, try some different set ups and see how they work for you and your raid.

Most people chose tidal mastery over totemic focus as it works with ancestral fortitude and offers some increase in HPS (though non-uniformly); and in the common healer/caster groups totemic focus offers around 2mp5 per talent point which most see as a poor return on investment.

For your specific situation, I'd recommend ditching the pendant for the new Alchemists stone. Also if you switch mp5 for healing you can down rank and save mana while pushing ~the same HPS, while allowing you to use max ranks and increases your HPS if needed. Look for the quote from Raut about +healing never being wasted in the OP.

Daidalos · 04/07/08, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

I got some slightly different figures but it could be due to differences in gemming and enchants. I get a total of 14 gems slots (excluding the meta gem). The ideal way to gem the gear would be 12 reds, 1 blue (legs) and 1 yellow (helm). Therefore, I used a Bracing Earthstorm Diamond in the meta gem slot.

Here are the enchants I used on the gear listed above:

Helm Glyph of Renewal
Shoulder Greater Inscription of Faith
Back None
Chest Restore Mana Prime
Wrist Superior Healing
Hands Major Healing
Legs Golden Spellthread
Feet Boar's Speed
Ring 1 None
Ring 2 None
Weapon Major Healing
Shield Major Stamina

Int 491
Stam 550
Heal 2569 (w/ 13 +22 heal gems)
Crit 36 (16 on boots and 20 on belt)
Haste 269
mp5 211 (+alchemist stone effect ~40mp5)

I will play around with changing the gear in a few slots and post the results.

I was in a hurry and might have made some mistakes. I ignored all socket bonuses and put 22 healing in every socket possible some of my data is wrong though.

Sobeyet · 04/07/08, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Zaffron

And finally my trinkets. I feel that my mana pool is low compared to other healers, so I have clung religiously to my Pendant of the Violet Eye, the regen is also nice on healing heavy fights, and especially nice in a lull where I equip my Totem of The Maelstrom, use the trinket and spam rank 1 HW for some nice extra mp5, as well as healing way and armour buff on the tank. Should I be switching the Pendant for a better trinket? It would push me back under 10k mana which I would have thought is low, but perhaps I am wrong.

I would definitely replace the Pendant with the new alchemists stone since you're already an alchemist. Keep in mind that trinkets are an extremely easy way to tweak your stats if you don't have access to multiple sets of gear. If you know you'll have mana issues, you can equip 2 mp5 trinkets for an extra ~40ish mp5. If mana isn't a problem, equip HPS trinkets for the extra ~1xx +healing. I generally gem for +heal and change my trinkets based on the group composition and boss.

You can even use this to your advantage if you happen to die during a boss fight. If you're using an equipment mod such as outfitter, you can queue up your mp5 trinkets + gear when you die; when you pop the mod will take the split-second you're out of combat to change up your gear and provide a small buffer for the reduced mana. Very siutational, but I've also used it to switch from elemental gear to resto gear in ZA if I die and more healing is needed.

Skyhoof · 04/07/08, 1:44 PM

I basically came up with the same list as Daidalos. However, I used a different cloak and ring. I think the proc on the Band of the Eternal Restorer outweighs the spell haste on the Blessed Band of Karabor. Likewise, I think the spell haste on the cloak makes it a better choice but I also came up with another cape for the No. 2 spot. I also included the second best item in slots that didn't use Tier 6. I would use all red gems, except for a yellow in the helm.

Head

[Shroud of Chieftain Ner'zhul]

Neck

1) [Design: Amulet of Flowing Life] Requires jewelcrafting
2) [Brooch of Nature's Mercy]

Shoulders

[Skyshatter Shoulderpads]

Back

1)[Shroud of the Highborne]
2) [Shroud of Redeemed Souls]

Chest

1) [Sun-Drenched Scale Chestguard] Requires leatherworking
2) [Sunglow Vest]

Bracers

[Skyshatter Bracers]

Gloves

1) [Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves]
2) [Gauntlets of the Ancient Frostwolf]

Belt

[Skyshatter Belt]

Legs

1) [Kilt of Spiritual Reconstruction]
2) [Leggings of Eternity]

Feet

[Skyshatter Boots]

Ring

[Blessed Band of Karabor]
[Blessed Band of Karabor]

Weapon

[Crystal Spire of Karabor]

Off Hand

Aegis of Angelic Fortune

Trinket

1) [Memento of Tyrande]
2) [Item not found!] Requires Alchemy
3) [Tome of Diabolic Remedy]

Totem

[Totem of Healing Rains]

Using best in slot items:
Tauren: Intellect: 494
Stamina: 583
Heal: 2,750 (including Nature's Blessing and 14/15 +22 heal gems)
Crit: 36
Haste: 326 (20.67%)
mp5: 188 (alchemist stone valued at +20 mp5). With water shield and mana spring, the mp5 would be 301.

EDIT: Fixed choice of helm
EDIT2: Changed choice of rings

Yekkom · 04/07/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by shockeffect

I just recently hit exalted with shattered sun and scryers, and other than the healing and mp5 on the neck, which seem pretty good, i am curious as to whether or not anyone has looked into the effectiveness of the proc from the neck. I have tried searching, but have found nothing(i very well might have missed it). If anyone has any ideas or information, i would love to hear it.

I am editing my post (I was wrong). Please go to post #895 of this thread for more on what I found.

galzohar · 04/07/08, 3:00 PM

On leo getting hit by the whirlwind is just plain not paying attention, if you have people that are unable to pay attention in your raid you won't get far. At least not reliably. While some attempts you will be able to save a few people that got hit by whirlwind by careful/lucky healing, on others it'll be a "you or them" kind of choice, as either they die to DoT damage or you die to aggro (or whirlwind itself if you stopped running from it to heal them). It's not about not healing people that make mistakes, but it's about not saving someone who made a mistake and die in his place, leaving the raid with a living person who can't pay attention and will just die anyway and 1 less healer.

Daidalos · 04/07/08, 3:03 PM

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

I basically came up with the same list as Daidalos. However, I used a different cloak and ring. I think the proc on the Band of the Eternal Restorer outweighs the spell haste on the Blessed Band of Karabor. Likewise, I think the spell haste on the cloak makes it a better choice but I also came up with another cape for the No. 2 spot. I also included the second best item in slots that didn't use Tier 6. I would use all red gems, except for a yellow in the helm.

Head

[Skyshatter Helmet]

Neck

1) [Design: Amulet of Flowing Life] Requires jewelcrafting
2) [Brooch of Nature's Mercy]

Shoulders

[Skyshatter Shoulderpads]

Back

1)[Shroud of the Highborne]
2) [Shroud of Redeemed Souls]

Chest

1) [Sun-Drenched Scale Chestguard] Requires leatherworking
2) [Sunglow Vest]

Bracers

[Skyshatter Bracers]

Gloves

1) [Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves]
2) [Gauntlets of the Ancient Frostwolf]

Belt

[Skyshatter Belt]

Legs

1) [Kilt of Spiritual Reconstruction]
2) [Leggings of Eternity]

Feet

[Skyshatter Boots]

Ring

[Blessed Band of Karabor]
[Band of the Eternal Restorer]

Weapon

[Crystal Spire of Karabor]

Off Hand

Aegis of Angelic Fortune

Trinket

1) [Memento of Tyrande]
2) [Item not found!] Requires Alchemy
3) [Tome of Diabolic Remedy]

Totem

[Totem of Healing Rains]

Using best in slot items:
Tauren: Intellect: 492
Stamina: 585
Heal: 2,763 (including Nature's Blessing and 14/15 +22 heal gems)
Crit: 36
Haste: 263
mp5: 191 (alchemist stone valued at +20 mp5)

Oh right I forgot to change my cloak. I need to fix that. I would also pick [Shroud of the Highborne]
Why did you pick
[Skyshatter Helmet] vs
[Shroud of Chieftain Ner'zhul]
Shroud is so much better and you already have 4 pc t6 (boots belt bracer shoulders) in the other slots?

Edit: I forgot those gloves were BOE.

Originally Posted by Skyhoof

P.S. What did you think of using the Band of the Eternal Restorer over a second Blessed Band of Karabor? Is +8 stam, +5 int, +29 healing and +4 mp5 > 30 haste? Given how much haste we will get from our tier pieces, I'm went with the Band of the Eternal Restorer. We could use some more detailed math on the "sweet spot" for resto haste. The initial calculations indicated roughly that something just under 200 rating might be the most beneficial. We should take a closer look at what happens when we approach 300 rating.

Edit2:
I like the constant haste over the proc healing due to my annoyance with procs that happen at times I don't need them. My observation about haste vs healing was with under 2400 healing. While certainly true that haste has dimishing returns as you stack it it however has increasing returns with your amount of +heal.

With 300 haste and 2700 healing 30 additional haste is 20-30 more hps than 29 additional healing on ch4 and ch5. And over 40 hps increase for HW12. Keep in mind the nearly 2 hps increase per rating vs the 1 hps per heal we currently have even if this fails down to 1.6haste ~ 1 healing I don't see 5 int and 4 mp5 being all that great. Perhaps I should make some stat weights for best in slot sunwell gear. I woudn't say hps is everything but if I can get through Brutalis with my current gear chain potting with a spreist only 50% of the time I think hps will be my primary concern but 3 more bosses I haven't seen await so I reserve the right to change my mind ;-)

Skyhoof · 04/07/08, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Daidalos

[Skyshatter Helmet] vs
[Shroud of Chieftain Ner'zhul]
Shroud is so much better and you already have 4 pc t6 (boots belt bracer shoulders) in the other slots?

Should be Shroud of the Chieftain. It's definitely far better as you say. Will fix.

Originally Posted by Daidalos

Also for clarification. You didnt' specify which profession on the gloves.
Gloves

1) [Sun-Drenched Scale Gloves] Requires leatherworking
2) [Gauntlets of the Ancient Frostwolf]

There should be no profession noted with the gloves. One is a BOE crafted item but you don't have to be a leatherworker to use it. The other is a raid drop.

P.S. What did you think of using the Band of the Eternal Restorer over a second Blessed Band of Karabor? Is +8 stam, +5 int, +20 healing and +4 mp5 > 30 haste? Given how much haste we will get from our tier pieces, I'm went with the Band of the Eternal Restorer. We could use some more detailed math on the "sweet spot" for resto haste. The initial calculations indicated roughly that something just under 200 rating might be the most beneficial. We should take a closer look at what happens when we approach 300 rating.

Edit: Should be +20 healing, not +29 healing more.

Skyhoof · 04/07/08, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Yekkom

The proc seems to hit only your primary target and is a direct heal (Arcane Surge) which can crit. The biggest problem is in many cases I normally choose a of rank chainheal on my target to increase the heals on jumps which will have an amount of overheal built into it.

The proc is a separate heal which does not help the chainheal jumps at all. It just ups my overheals. If it is better than what you are wearing without the proc use it but do not replace an equal level item with it for the chance of a mostly useless proc.

The Aldor version is a buff (Light's Salvation) to heals and would hit the chainheals jumps. The Aldor version is a much stronger neck piece than the Scryer one.

I'm still a little fuzzy on exactly what each of the procs do. Got a WWS? We could use some numbers on Arcane Surge/Light's Salvation, whether it benefits from any talents, gear, etc. Thanks.

Meliora · 04/07/08, 6:17 PM

Originally Posted by Yekkom

The proc seems to hit only your primary target and is a direct heal (Arcane Surge) which can crit. The biggest problem is in many cases I normally choose a of rank chainheal on my target to increase the heals on jumps which will have an amount of overheal built into it.

The proc is a separate heal which does not help the chainheal jumps at all. It just ups my overheals. If it is better than what you are wearing without the proc use it but do not replace an equal level item with it for the chance of a mostly useless proc.

The Aldor version is a buff (Light's Salvation) to heals and would hit the chainheals jumps. The Aldor version is a much stronger neck piece than the Scryer one.

The question I have is how would [Shattered Sun Pendant of Restoration] stack up against [Brooch of Nature's Mercy] if you are Aldor? Still trying to judge whether the proc is worth the trade for haste.

Aldor proc:
Light's Salvation - Spells - World of Warcraft

Scryer Proc:
Arcane Surge - Spells - World of Warcraft

(Ty to Tunga's Profile - Wowhead for assistance)

Yekkom · 04/07/08, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by Meliora

The question I have is how would [Shattered Sun Pendant of Restoration] stack up against [Brooch of Nature's Mercy] if you are Aldor? Still trying to judge whether the proc is worth the trade for haste.

Aldor proc:
Light's Salvation - Spells - World of Warcraft

Scryer Proc:
Arcane Surge - Spells - World of Warcraft

(Ty to Tunga's Profile - Wowhead for assistance)

Ok, I am going to eat some crow here but I was wrong on the "only procs on your first target". Here is my guilds latest Wow Web Stats in TK. We are learning Kael so basically a wipe fest there.VR was done dogpile style (our first time that way and try 1 was very short lol).

Browsing the reports I found this which clearly shows Soranas as my primary target and the first bounce, Chagrin, as getting the Arcane surge.

19:08'02.875 Yekkom's Chain Heal heals Kavorkiann for 903
19:08'02.875 Yekkom's Chain Heal heals Chagrin for 1751
19:08'02.875 Yekkom's Chain Heal heals Soranas for 3219
19:08'02.875 Canibalcow's Swing crits Void Reaver for 676 Physical damage
19:08'03.156 Roarlyn's Swing parried by Void Reaver
19:08'03.171 Azktor gains 1 Attack from Windfury Attack
19:08'03.171 Azktor's Swing hits Void Reaver for 210 Physical damage
19:08'03.171 Healing Stream Totem VI's Healing Stream dot heals Azktor for 47
19:08'03.171 Healing Stream Totem VI's Healing Stream dot heals Roarlyn for 47
19:08'03.171 Void Reaver is afflicted by Shadow Word: Pain
19:08'03.187 Void Reaver is afflicted by Shadow Vulnerability
19:08'03.203 Azktor's Swing crits Void Reaver for 517 Physical damage
19:08'03.453 Soranas's Frostbolt hits Void Reaver for 1944 Frost damage
19:08'03.453 Varys's Swing hits Void Reaver for 377 Physical damage
19:08'03.453 Searing Totem VII's Attack hits Void Reaver for 207 Fire damage
19:08'03.453 Scrios's First Aid dot heals Scrios for 535
19:08'03.531 Varys's Swing hits Void Reaver for 182 Physical damage
19:08'03.546 Soranas gains Inspiration
19:08'03.562 Azktor gains Windfury Attack
19:08'03.578 Void Reaver is afflicted by Misery
19:08'03.578 Hound gains 3 from Lifebloom
19:08'03.593 Kavorkiann gains Lifebloom
19:08'03.609 Roarlyn's Shield Slam parried by Void Reaver
19:08'03.625 Yekkom's Arcane Surge heals Chagrin for 647

Nature's Guardian also proced it:

18:59'46.125 Yekkom's Nature's Guardian heals Yekkom for 1019
18:59'46.125 Nanak gains 1 Attack from Windfury Attack
18:59'46.281 Jenifael's Renew dot heals Soulblighter for 769
18:59'46.296 Raindog's Lifebloom dot heals Trytan for 231
18:59'46.296 Void Reaver's Pounding heals Dyonira for 0
18:59'46.375 Nanak gains Windfury Attack
18:59'46.375 Yekkom's Arcane Surge heals Yekkom for 674

Yekkom and Jenifael(priest) have the neck piece for scryers and here is the info for them:

Wow Web Stats

Yekkoms heals:

Yekkom - WWS

Jenifaels heals:

Jenifael - WWS

Our only Aldor with the neck is a druid, Celebrity, here are his heals:

Celebrity - WWS

And a list of his buffs:

Celebrity - WWS

I will edit my previous post (which was wrong) to aim at this one. I am still of the believe that the Aldor proc is stronger but the Scryer one is not as weak as I believed it to be.

Maghun · 04/08/08, 4:47 AM

Coming from a person that is Scyer I must say [Shattered Sun Pendant of Restoration] isn't as good as
[Brooch of Nature's Mercy] for pve I was trying it last night and much prefered the haste over the often wasted heal proc, however for pvp it can proc of earthshield and natures guardian making it excellent for pvp.

However isn't there a better trinket then [Memento of Tyrande] from sunwell ?

Morakk · 04/08/08, 6:31 AM

The Glimmering Naaru Sliver is what you're talking about it. I don't believe anyone killed a boss that dropped it on the PTR or live yet.

It was 119 healing and a channeled 8 second effect that restored 250 mana per second, with a five minute cooldown. I don't believe anyone knows, or can know, whether it is an actual channel, or if it places a buff on your character, or whether it is on the global cooldown. It is effected by haste, at least according to the screenshots of the tooltip with it being a 7.88 second cast in stead of 8 seconds. The use is worth 33 mp5 in the long run, considerably more in a 5:08 second fight >.>

Whether it actually exists, or is better than Memento (in other words, whether or not you have to find an 8 second window to stop healing to channel), I can't say.

Quick edits:

Also, a quick google of it indicates that if it drops anywhere, it's Mu'ru.

Daidalos · 04/08/08, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Morakk

The Glimmering Naaru Sliver is what you're talking about it. I don't believe anyone killed a boss that dropped it on the PTR or live yet.

It was 119 healing and a channeled 8 second effect that restored 250 mana per second, with a five minute cooldown. I don't believe anyone knows, or can know, whether it is an actual channel, or if it places a buff on your character, or whether it is on the global cooldown. It is effected by haste, at least according to the screenshots of the tooltip with it being a 7.88 second cast in stead of 8 seconds. The use is worth 33 mp5 in the long run, considerably more in a 5:08 second fight >.>

Whether it actually exists, or is better than Memento (in other words, whether or not you have to find an 8 second window to stop healing to channel), I can't say.

I think its safe to assume that the * Naruu Trinkets do exist and drop of Mu'ru. If you cannot move or cast while channeling Glimmering Naruu Silver I"d say its not as good as memento. If its just a buff that restores mana over 8s then it would be better.

Bungmeister · 04/08/08, 3:18 PM

The word "channeling" on that trinket worries me. I wouldn't mind it being dispellable in pvp, but if it makes you unable to move/cast and subject to interrupts and pushback, it loses quite a bit of appeal to me.

Overall, I'd imagine Redeermer's to be the best trinket. If you're chain potting, without a doubt it's the best, but even if you're not potting, I'd imagine the mp5 gain from Memento/Glimmering Naruu/Diabolic Remedy to be not critical right?

Actually, I'm wondering why you like the Band of the Eternal Restorer over a 2nd Blessed Band of Karabor. I've never really bothered keeping track of the proc, and while the proc is really nice, it's too uncontrollable for me to actually factor in. I guess it's just preference?

Maghun · 04/08/08, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bungmeister

The word "channeling" on that trinket worries me. I wouldn't mind it being dispellable in pvp, but if it makes you unable to move/cast and subject to interrupts and pushback, it loses quite a bit of appeal to me.

Overall, I'd imagine Redeermer's to be the best trinket. If you're chain potting, without a doubt it's the best, but even if you're not potting, I'd imagine the mp5 gain from Memento/Glimmering Naruu/Diabolic Remedy to be not critical right?

Actually, I'm wondering why you like the Band of the Eternal Restorer over a 2nd Blessed Band of Karabor. I've never really bothered keeping track of the proc, and while the proc is really nice, it's too uncontrollable for me to actually factor in. I guess it's just preference?

I find the proc on eternal restorer to be too good. Its almost always up, however I have recently come to love haste so maybe I'll change over.