Thud00

Chain heal - "Each jump reduces the effectiveness of the heal by 50%". Quite accurate.

On the first jump you are left with 50% multiply by 1.3 from the 3TS bonus to get 65%. Reduce that by 50% and multiply by 1.3 to get 42.25%. Quite accurate, you can see it in the combat log yourself if you wear the set.

I posted some numbers on this subject quite recently in another thread.

---

The armor buff talent is certainly worth taking. On illidan we have the shamans HW spamming the tank for the armor buff. The tanks takes huge damage when he enrages and that buff lowers the 13k hits down to something more manageable. Its nice to have the crit talent to make this worthwhile.

---

Ancestral knowledge is pretty hopeless. If you have 10k mana you get 500 more. In a raid with an SP I can have 700 MP5. Mana pool expansion is expensive in stats and does nothing. If you were going to run out you will still run out. I guess you could argue it also offers 2 MP5 from MT too. There are better ways to spend 5 points.

---

Yea you can pretty much ignore mana regen when you are with an SP. But sometimes you are not, you get stuck with the rogues for WF or because the mages monopolise the SP. You have to maintain enough MP5 to still operate at a level above spamming CH1. Trying to heal with 100 MP5 and 2600 +heal is not a good idea, you are too specialist, too dependent on that SP. On longer fights SP tend to run out of mana anyhow, they seem to burn the stuff. This results in you getting less mana than you were expecting.

 

galzohar

Efficiency and mana is rather the same thing. Basically what I count is the amount of healing I can do if I use all my mana available from all sources in a given fight, and that is the only value that matters in terms of "not going oom". This is increased by all stats except haste, of course. More healing will yield more healing per mana and more mana will yield more heals and thus more healing, and therefore mp5 and +healing are interchangeable for this aspect of healing. Even crit helps here, although very slightly, as while it will generally overheal a lot more than your normal overhealing, it will sometimes not overheal and thus provide some kind of additional healing per mana.

Burst however has nothing to do with mp5, regen or even crit (as you naturally assume that if someone will die if your crit doesn't heal you fail, and you don't put people's lives on the dice especially when 9/10 will fail). Haste however helps a lot here as it's the cheapest stat per itemization point to increase HPS.

If you're going oom in a fight burst doesn't really matter as your higher HPS will not help becuase you won't be able to use it when oom and people will die. Then again if you don't have enough HPS people will die and you won't be able to use all that mana. If no matter how you adjust your gear people still die due to lack of HPS and/or mana, you need better gear or more healers in the raid (or a better raid, or better skills, but assuming skillful play for your raid it's the gear that's the issue). I'm noticing very few complaints of "he died because X was oom!" compared to how many times I get "Damn that heal didn't land fast enough / didn't heal for enough / he got bursted" or the likes. So I'm tending to improving my HPS over efficiency, while keeping an efficiency set on pieces where the difference is large enough. The only thing I'm really unsure of is how much efficiency I actually would accept dropping for the sake of higher burst. I guess i'll just have to progress more before really deciding while keeping items that I can swap based on what's needed.

 

Skyhoof

I’ve been running the numbers on using 3T2 all morning. And I have to agree with Thud00 that it provides a significant boost to the second and third jumps of your chain heal.

Under the various scenarios I ran, it boosted my chain heal total by as much as 10.6%. Is that enough of an increase to make it worth while to run BWL for a few weeks (assuming you were like me and long ago vendored your T2 or perhaps are alliance and never did BWL as a shaman)?

Assuming it really is worthwhile to get and equip T2, I worked up the following summary and generalization. Would appreciate feedback.

You should wear three pieces of Tier 2 if the following statements are true:
• Chain heal will be 90% of your healing for the fight
• Your chain heal will normally hit all 3 targets. The biggest boost in healing is on the third jump.
• You are in a 25-man raid
• You do not lose any Tier 6 bonuses by equipping Tier 2. Tier 4 and Tier 5 set bonuses do not matter.
• The best pieces of T2 to use are the bracers, gloves and boots.

Assumptions:
B+(M*B)+(M*M*B)
Where B is the base heal on the first target, and M is 0.5, or 0.65 with the set bonus.

Used the spreadsheets that Yekkom posted. All his calculations check out now.
4pcT63pcT2 compared to 4pcT6:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...hWHi77CA&hl=en

This next Google Doc spreadsheet has only a 3pc T2 compared to no T2:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?h...RD2ejLcYnLrQRA

In addition, it doesn’t matter how much plus healing you have. At any level, the 3T2 bonus will boost chain healing. However, until you get past Kara and into 25-man raids you won’t be chain healing enough to make the bonus worthwhile. Wearing the Tier 2 reduces your LHW and HW, which I find myself using frequently in 5 mans and 10 mans but rarely in raids.

The downside of using T2 is that the first hit of your chain heal hits for less – about 200 less in the scenario I ran. However, your total chain heal will increase by about 500. And as we all know we get the most overhealing on the first target. Other healers also saw that person was low and targeted them. The beauty of chain heal is that the next two jumps go to the people who most need it. Often, they are players who took damage while you were casting.

So far, we’ve been looking at how this will affect the healing done by chain heal. But I wanted to see the entire picture. What else would I lose by equipping the T2? How much Intellect or Stamina or mp5 would I sacrifice?

Here’s one scenario I ran. Let’s say we have a shaman in the equivalent of T5 gear.

Healing: 2054 with talents
Crit: 23.07% with talents
Mp5: 198
Intellect: 495
Stamina: 519
Avg Chain Heal Rank 5 (3186, 4478, 5575)

Now, they swap for:
[Bracers of Ten Storms]
[Greaves of Ten Storms]
[Gauntlets of Ten Storms]

Healing: 1817 (-237)
Crit 22% (-1.07%)
Mp5: 178 (-20)
Intellect: 464 (-31)
Stamina 489 (-30)
Avg Chain Heal (2962, 4887, 6139)

Overall, you are not losing a lot of stam, intellect and mp5 for a 10% increase in healing power. The smaller mana pool really doesn’t matter and you can compensate for the lower mp5. So, I decided to run a second scenario.

In the above scenario, we substituted the pieces of T2 that would have the least impact. This time I substitute the pieces of T2 that would have the greatest impact. Here you lose a meta gem as well.
Wearing:
[Helmet of Ten Storms]
[Legplates of Ten Storms]
[Breastplate of Ten Storms]

Healing: 1709 (-345)
Crit: 23.73 (+1.73)
Int: 477 (-18)
Stam: 442 (-77)
Mp5: 140 (-49)
Avg Chain Heal (2860, 4719, 5928)

You boost your chain heal by 6%. However, you have now made some serious sacrifices in other areas. Losing 49 mp5 means you will probably have to have a shadow priest in your group. And losing 770 in health might make this gear difficult to wear for some fights where you need 10K or more health to survive. However, it’s still doable.

Recap: Here’s the scenario in Yekkom’s spreadsheet using the 4-piece Tier 6 bonus

#1 2342 healing (no Tier 2) gives you an average of 3625, 5445, 6352
#2 2100 healing (3T2) gives you an average chain heal of 3390, 5594 and 7027

The result is a 10.6% increase in your chain heal.

P.S. Also, anyone else take a look at the proc rate of [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond]. I’d really like to nail down how often it procs.

 

• squiffy

Zandalar Signet of Serenity - Items - World of Warcraft the enchant from ZG (assuming you have the rep and bijous/coins etc).

 

Karede

I have a question regarding trinket choices.

Right now I am using [Ribbon of Sacrifice] and [Alchemist's Stone]. Last night in TK I lost out on the [Fel Reaver's Piston]. My current gear has my healing at 1691 and my mp5 is around 120. On the VR fight I had no trouble with mana, and the only fights I've seen where mana was an issue at all for me so far have been in ZA when we had a DPS light group and so we understood that the healers would have their mana taxed.

At this point I don't really find myself chain chugging mana pots in that many fights and I don't seem to have much trouble with mana efficiency, assuming I keep my Mana Spring down and WS up. So would it be worth it to replace either of my current trinkets (I'm also looking to get [Essence of the Martyr] to replace the Ribbon soon) with the Piston or another mp5 trinket, or would it be better to continue stacking more +healing, especially with the changes to WS in 2.3.2?

 

Shinwei

I've never really heard good things about the [Fel Reaver's Piston] on these forums. I remember looking at it and seeing that it looks good on paper, but I've read numerous posts by people who've tried it on the "Healing Trinket Selection" thread saying that it is extremely unimpressive and is worse than the +70 healing trinkets available.

Right now I run with a [Scarab of the Infinite Cycle] and an [Eye of Gruul], but I always have my handy [Alchemist's Stone] ready in my bags for certain fights where I know I'm going to need some extra mana. I have enough badges to buy three [Essence of the Martyr]s, but honestly I think I just prefer my Scarab. The next trinket upgrade I'm looking forward to is the [Memento of Tyrande] if it ever drops, but I don't really feel the need to grab any trinkets other than that one.

 

Skyhoof

I would concentrate buying the [Essence of the Martyr] to replace the [Ribbon of Sacrifice]. Run ZA and try to get the [Tome of Diabolic Remedy]

I wouldn’t worry about losing out on the [Fel Reaver's Piston]. I think the two trinkets you are currently using are superior. I did not like the Fel Feaver’s Piston because I noticed that the 500 heal over time usually got off only a tick or two before someone healed the player to full health. That leaves the 16 mp5 as the main benefit of the Piston, which is nothing too exciting. Don’t throw it away however. It’s nice for certain fights – such as the Maiden in Kara. You might also like it for 5 mans where you are the only healer.

You may want to consider getting the [Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker] and using it on fights where you don’t use mana pots. I’m a big fan of the [Alchemist's Stone]. However, you have to chain chug mana pots to get 40 mp5. If you use a pot only every 4 minutes (on average) it now returns 20 mp5. The Brooch returns at least 28 mp5 – if not more in some fights.

I would ignore the people who are in love with the [Scarab of the Infinite Cycle]. It’s a trinket with a sexy proc and that is all some people can see. It is not better than Essence of the Martyr. However, the Scarab may be better than the Ribbon of Sacrifice. Both have +healing and I think the proc off Scarab would be more beneficial than the proc off Ribbon.

 

Karede

Well, one of the reasons I was thinking about picking up an [Essence of the Martyr] is for the on use in conjunction with ES. I have a [Scarab of the Infinite Cycle] sitting in the bank, but have been unsure as to what the real value of that haste is considering I really don't have any other +haste on my gear. I'll have to grab it this weekend and see how it goes with that.

And as for [Memento of Tyrande]...Well, my guild is just starting TK, and on my server there are two Horde guilds in BT, one at Illidan, and one Alliance guild which is stuck at RoS and can't get Archimonde down. We're a little farther behind as a server. I'm my guild raid leader and I've been trying to push us fairly quickly (we started Karazhan in early October and we're at VR now) but I'm not sure that I'll ever get to see Illidan.

 

Karede

See, the point on [Alchemist's Stone] is what I have been debating. My problem is that I am only using a mana pot about once every 4 minutes. I'm not coming close to chain chugging. Adding in my Mana Spring, I was at 50% mana when we took down VR last night. And that was my lowest point in the fight. The only time I seem to really need them is for if I die and have to pop back up and get my mana back. Otherwise I'm not using them that often. Of course, when I do, it makes that trinket so nice.

As for the [Tome of Diabolic Remedy] and [Fathom-Brooch of the Tidewalker], well, we're having trouble right now with people consisently showing up (damned holidays!) for raids and so we're stuck in ZA, only through Akil'Zon and haven't actually started SSC yet. We just started in TK for Loot Reaver two weeks ago. But I'll definitely look into getting those.

 

Lambach

I'm a bit confused as to how you are learning new encounters and not chain chugging potions. If you guys are struggling on ZA or 25 mans, then you should be spam healing. Im not sure if your downranking or taking time out of the 5 second rule to keep such a high mana pool, but honestly you should be spamming heals. If you guys are wiping, obviously there is someone there who needs healing. All our restore shamans are alchs and all of them chain chug on new encounters. I cant figure out what you would be doing that people are dying, yet your able to stay at 50% mana. Alchemists stone is amazing(especially after you switch to fel mana pots).

If I'm completely wrong and your spamming and still able to be fine on mana, regem and reenchant your gear with plus healing. Stack as much plus healing as possible until you start running out of mana and have to chain chug. Only then are you being the most effictive healer you can be on a new encounter

 

galzohar

The fact is on fights like void reaver, if people know what they're doing you don't need to do all that much healing. And if people don't know what they're doing, it'll be a wipe way before you have mana issues. If you're running without a shadow priest though you may have very different experience, as chain-chugging supers with alchemist stone is still not nearly what you would gain with even a not-so-great shadow priest. Of course pots+priest is better if there are actual people taking that damage so you can heal them - but on the early fights people who mess up so much to take unneeded damage will generally die anyway before a heal can land or if too many play like that the raid will probably wipe well before mana would become an issue.

Remember mana stats are only valueable if people die more often because you were saving mana than how often they die because your heals weren't big/fast enough.

 

Karede

We're not struggling on the encounters. We're struggling to have the people online to have a full raid. The holidays are killing us. Most of our guild are adults who are currently off visiting family or have parties they have to go to with their spouses and things of that nature. We're doing fine in the actual progression. We only started Kara in October, and we're through Loot Reaver at this point. Maybe not the fastest progression, but still not too bad.

As far as ZA goes, I've chain chugged mana pots on several of those fights as we're learning them. When I'm healing in ZA, I pretty much constantly use Rank 8 HW on my tank now, while we have a druid throwing up HoT's for raid healing. I will always use my Mana Tide before a pot, so that it goes on cooldown and can come back up again later if needed. We aren't really having a problem with people dying.

On VR last night, the only people that died were ranged who didn't avoid the Arcane Orbs. That's it. It's certainly possible that as time goes on and we get into more difficult fights, and more of our guild returns from the holidays and we start progressing further, that I'll need to chain pots. That's why I went potion spec alchemist to begin with. So far it just doesn't seem to be an issue. That's why I was asking about the relative value of the [Fel Reaver's Piston].

 

Shinwei

During what bosses are you spamming Rank 8 HW on the tank on Zul'Aman? I also raid Zul'Aman with a Resto Druid, and I find that doing so is quite pointless because Lifebloom is just so powerful on the tanks. I use Chain heal to heal the raid and I use chain heal to heal the tank in Zul'Aman. Perhaps you could elaborate on specific encounters?

What is your strategy against Void Reaver - more specifically: what do you and the melee do? During Void Reaver I stand right in between Void Reaver's legs, pretty much right under him and spam chain heal on the melee and anyone else who happens to be there as well (other healers). It's not my responsibility to heal the ranged, and I'm constantly spamming chain heal nonstop. I feel that it is a very effective use of a Resto shaman. Does your guild have you do something different?

 

Thud00

There isnt a single fight I use mana potions on. Had the same number in my bags for months. You dont have to use them if you are geared at the right level. If you are wiping its because people are making mistakes and dieing before heals land. I dont recall any wipes being caused by all the healers being oom. You cant reduce healers any more either, Each heal takes a fixed time and that will lead to wipes since you simply dont have the time to get around to them all. One healer with 50k +heal and 10k MP5 can still only heal one guy at once.

For the voidreaver fight dont stand out with the ranged. You job is to stand directly under him and spam chain heals on the melee (both rogues and tanks). The rogues should never leave melee but eat the damage and you will keep them all up with CH. The ranged must not come close and orb the melee of course. You simply lose too much cast time if you run around dodging orbs. Its far easier to heal up the damage on yourself and be chain healing 100% of the time. You will simply own the healing meters. A couple of chain healers does almost all the healing the fight needs. Leave healing of the ranged to other people like paladins that only have single target heals. If you cant sustain the mana then downrank, and only if you are actualy losing people due to you inability to top them up should you uprank and quaff potions.

 

Stereo

Does this work the same for +damage relics like Totem of the Storm or mana-reduction relics like Totem of Living Water/Totem of Lightning?

 

thrawny

At the moment i am 0-0-61 because i cant decide what talents to dump if i go with the other good alternative with 8 points in elemental. When my gear was worse i didnt think threat was much of an issue but now when ive broken the 2k healing barrier i feel i really need threat reduction for trash to be smooth sails. It also helps alot in ZA.

Anyways i have around 200 mp5 unbuffed now which i feel is almost a bit much but with this in mind what talents do think i should give up? Obviously totemic focus is not a good talent and will be the first to go. I think focused mind is a nice talent for some bosses and occasional pvp so i guess i would like to keep that. Right now I have points in imp ankh but dont know if its worth it. Sure its great when you actually die during a try but that kind of only happens on azgalor and teron. So what do you guys think?

 

BlueGlyph

Yes it does. Just make sure you put the /cast before the /equip .

 

PsyBomb

You're right, those 7 points are better used elsewhere. With your mana regen, reducing totem costs isn't an issue, and it's generally accepted that it's better to use the points from Reincarnation elsewhere that will prevent you from dying in the first place.

I heal ZA with 1610 healing and 135 unbuffed MP5, which is quite enough when supported by some potions. 8-0-53 spec, and Healing Grace is maxxed out for me.

Quick question, and sorry if it has been answered before: How much MP5 does the Enamored Water Spirit work out to? I still have it banked, and due to some rather poor luck I'm wondering if it'll be worth equipping.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

• Binkenstein

It's a 27 mana per tick totem on a short duration and a cooldown.
It used to be good at level 60, but now it's not worth the bother (highest rank is 20 now anyway)

 

Skyhoof

You should vendor the [Enamored Water Spirit]. To expand upon Binkenstein's post, even with talents, the most it will restore is 33 to 34 mana every 2 seconds. This works out to about 408 mana every three minutes or 11.33 mp5. It does not stack with Mana Spring. Granted, it does restore 11.33 mp5 to everyone in your party but in most groups your Mana Spring Totem gives everyone enough mana.

If you've had bad luck with trinkets, get [Heavenly Inspiration], which is from a quest. And you can get [Scarab of the Infinite Cycle] from regular Black Morass. As you can see from earlier posts in this thread, I don't think much of the Scarab but the +70 healing alone would make it an upgrade, not to mention the haste proc.

On a seperate note, I'm still looking for answers to the question about how often [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] procs.

Original discussoin is here a few posts back at #58

 

Shinwei

I disagree. For two points I gain an extra 20% health/mana and 20 minute shorter cooldown on my reincarnate. As I've said multiple times earlier, these two talent points at the very worst provide a 20% extra mana buffer for if you go OOM, kill yourself on purpose, and continue healing.

As for what talents to get rid of in the Restoration tree to gain Elemental Warding, here's what I did:
1) Totemic Focus is the first to go, I only had 3 points in there to begin with, so this only gave me 3 points to put into Elemental.
2) Focused Mind is also a relatively easy choice, seeing as there's no encounter in Hyjal/BT where silence is an issue aside from Azgalor, but his silence can be dealt with using Shadow Resist. Another 3 points.
3) Two more points left. Here I made the choice between Imp. Reincarnation and 2 points in Tidal Focus. Thinking it over, I realized that 2 points in Tidal Focus is just 2% spell crit - a stat that is of extremely little importance to us, seeing as the majority of the time we spend in 25-mans, we're raid healing and not tank healing. In the end I decided that Improved Reincarnation is simply much more powerful and useful than 2% spell crit, so I went with that.

 

Skyhoof

Up until now, you made some good choices. Our crits are what procs Ancestral Healing, which boosts our target's armor by 25%. Tidal Mastery goes hand-in-hand with this ability. Don't think that because our crits don't reduce casting time or contribute to mana regeneration that crit is of little importance to us.

But let's say you are raid healing and the raid is taking no physical damage (pretty frequent occurance). Take a look at how much 2% crit boosts your healing during a night of raiding and then compare that with the healing you are able to do with 20% more mana upon reincarnation. Let's say your mana pool is 10,000. That means you get an extra 2,000 mana when you pop. That's enough to cast 5 chain heals if you downrank. Now, compare that to critting 2% more often over a night -- or a week -- or raiding.

 

Karede

Sorry I didn't catch this sooner, but I've been out of touch during the holidays. To answer your questions:

Right now we're through Nalorrakk and Akil'Zon in ZA. On Nalorrakk I spam rank 8 Healing Wave on whatever tank is tanking. I'll through up a rank 4 Chain Heal right after the switch for tanks. On Akil'Zon I spam rank 4 Chain Heal to heal the raid. For VR, I am exactly how you said, standing underneath VR and spamming CH on the melee. I wasn't healing the range at all, they had other healers for that, because no one could do more for the melee than me.

 

PsyBomb

Thanks for the response, Scarab is already equipped in my other trinket slot. Guess it's Martyr time for me.

To teach and to learn, to laugh and make others laugh. This is my purpose, and any day in which I don't wasn't worth the time it took to get through.

 

Skyhoof

I want to get some more discussion going about Haste. So far, it’s disappointed me and a lot of other resto shamans. Here’s my hypothesis: Haste does nothing for healing if you only have a little. However, once you reach the “tipping point” it becomes a powerful stat.

Here are my assumptions:

1) Haste only benefits you during “spam” healing or when casting back-to-back heals.
2) You have to spam heals for at least as long as it takes to get your first extra heal from the haste effect
3) Haste does not benefit healing classes in the same way as it does DPS classes
4) Using large amounts of haste will require the presence of a shadow priest
5) We ignore the benefit of a heal reaching someone faster and saving them from death. It’s a great benefit, but just too hard to quantify.

Here’s the question: If these assumptions are true, at what point do you first begin to see substantial benefit from haste? (See chart below)

Let’s say you have enough haste to cast 5% faster. You have to cast chain heal 20 times before you get an extra heal from the faster cast time. And if you spam heals non-stop that’s 47.5 seconds into a fight. I’m going to say the benefit from haste at this point is a big, fat zero.

Now, let’s say you have enough haste to cast a chain heal in 2.0 seconds (which would take 20% haste). You would get an extra cast after 10 seconds. I can’t count the number of times that I spam heal for 10, 15 or even 20 seconds. If I could get off six chain heals instead of five in the same time, my healing would probably go up 20%.

So, if you have 5% haste it does no good. If you have 20%, it a powerful stat (assuming you have a shadow priest or two in your group to keep you from going OOM).

So when do you first begin to see some benefit from haste? With 11% haste, you get that first extra cast around the 20-second mark. That’s quite a bit more useful than 47.5 seconds. Anyone have that much haste? What has your experience healing been?


If you wore every piece of healing gear with haste, you could get 372 haste rating or 23.6% haste. If you wore healing gear plus DPS gear with haste, you could get up to 414 haste rating, or 26.25%. It’s a little dizzying to think of what it would be like to cast all the time as if Bloodlust/Heroism were up.

Here are your options for Haste gear:

Helm: none
Neck: [Brooch of Nature's Mercy]
Shoulders: [Hex Lord's Voodoo Pauldrons]
Back: [Shroud of the Highborne]
Chest: [Hauberk of the Empire's Champion]
Wrist: [Living Earth Bindings]
Gloves: [Botanist's Gloves of Growth] or [Spiritwalker Gauntlets]
Belt: [Belt of Primal Majesty] or [Angelista's Sash]
Legs: [Achromic Trousers of the Naaru]
Feet: Nothing for healing but could use [Footpads of Madness]
Rings: [Blessed Band of Karabor] x 2
Weapon: [Dark Blessing]
Off-hand: Nothing for healing. Could use [Fetish of the Primal Gods]