◊ Shalas

Mods haven't been able to auto-select ranks for about 18 months now.

 

Abraxis

Not familiar with healbot. I generally just roll with lesser healing wave highest rank which I never use. Rank 12 Healing Wave. Rank 6 Healing Wave (The rank that is actually cheaper than my chainheal rank 4) and Chain Heal rank 4. 98 percent of the time I only use Chain Heal. The only fight I bust out Rank 12 Healing Wave is for Brutallus Stomp.

It's also about the only fight I use Rank 6 as well... I use it on the maintank before meteor slashes start casting at which point I switch to chain heal.

I guess I sometimes use it on Illidari Council too when I'm assigned to heal the priest chick's tank.

The only time I use Lesser Healing Wave except for in arena is sometimes to save lives while needing to move fast on phase 2 Felmyst.

But basically its mostly a chainheal fest.

Anyways... I don't know what healbot is! But if its something that betters your life when you need 3 buttons to heal effectively... well I'd look at it more like a one button healing game and then asking yourself do you really need healbot!

P.S. Still curious. [Shifting Naaru Sliver] <- Shifting Naaru Shard (54 spellhaste, 2 minute cooldown +320 spell dmg/healing power circle). How does this rank amongst all the other known trinkets for resto shaman.

 

Zu-Undermine

Yes. If you click on the options tab, you get MANY other mouse bindings. I use the default keys you listed, however I set it up to downrank chain heal and healing wave to ranks 3 and 8 when hold shift. Etc. As for automatic downranking, healbot does that PERFECTLY....while not in combat. Using a mod, any mod, to somehow downrank your spells while in combat is a VERY bad idea, and while you may be slightly more mana-efficient, you will be an absolutely terrible healer. There is no way a mod can accurately guess (oxymoron, I know) how much to downrank.

Depending on the fight, I will either just chain-spam chain-heal rank 1, 3 or 5, and canceling the casts if it would overheal excessively (and I am in danger of running OOM, if not I just overheal anyway, who cares if I do, as long as I don't run OOM). Usually I chain-cast rank 3 if the dmg spikes are small, and 5 if they are larger.

But basically, you can set up Healbot to cast downranked versions with shift/alt key modifiers, and cancel out the spell if it will drastically overheal. If all you want to do is non-stop spam 1 key (and have mods do all the thinking) perhaps enhancement is a better spec. Also, if you AREN'T casting the properly ranked version of your heals (picked based on damage "spikiness") and canceling them out, and instead reactively healing, then you will also end up being a horrible healer. I start at least 90% of my heals BEFORE the damage is taken.

 

Zu-Undermine

Out of combat they certainly can, and the current version of healbot does this.

 

rava

Depending on how you want to judge it:

54*Haste Value + (15/120(uptime)*325)*Heal Value

or

54*Haste Value + (((15/120(uptime))*325)*Heal Value) + (((15/120)*325)*Heal Value*# of healers) + (((15/120)*325)*Damage Value*# of casters)

Full price for gum!? That dog won't hunt, Monsignor.

 

Mishael

Do we know if the circle is a raid wide or group wide buff? For a fight like Twins where the whole ranged group is stacked that would be so OP.

 

◊ Shalas

Generally you don't spend very much of a fight out of combat.

 

• frmorrison

Other than 10 spell haste that seems to help keep up your raid more than 22 healing, for most other classes Spinals are the best gems to use.

So that puts less demand on those gems. Although with the gem vendor this isn't much of an issue anymore, but at least you can swap a badged Spinal for a banked Lionseye.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Logio

According to WoR anyone who steps into the circle gains so I think it´s a raid-wide buff.

 

kraj

Wow Web Stats


If anyone was curious about 3piece tier 2 / haste gear WWS's.

 

Sahael

What pieces of haste/t2 were you wearing for that run? Now, I know that overall, using the 3 piece of t2 ultimately gives more benefit than the loss in healing, thats not what Im interested in. Really what I am wondering where you get enough haste while using the t2 to make the haste worth-while?

 

Daidalos

I have no idea what you mean by enough haste to be worth while since pretty much any amount is worth while going by your stat weights. That being said the higest effective HPS is most likely a 3pc t2 and full sunwell gear. I ran some gear comparisons and if you can afford the loss in mana efficiency (big if for many) and you assuming that you get about 30% OH on your first CH target 3pct2 (boot belt bracer) and the best in slot sunwell gear produces the highest effective hps by about 50-100 HPS.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Mandrachalos

I know this is nearly impossible to grasp with math. We are trying to find realistic values for gear stats here.
But I think you should consider some points here while chosing gear even if you dont want to quantify it in HEP.

There are two major reasons why haste just rocks for certain speed fights where shamans are assigned to group healing with CH especially.

1. Faster hitting spells:
Let us compare two scenarios with same HPS (I already mentioned this example earlier).
You have HW which heals for 5 k with a 2.5 sec. cast, alternately you have a HW which heals for 4 k with a 2 sec. cast. Same HPS. Obviously mana cost, HPM, is another story but lets neglect that for now - because the haste discussion is based on assuming mana regen isnt the main problem anyway, mainly because of SPs.
So I guess we all agree that healing 4 k every 2 sec. is better than healing 5 k every 2.5 sec.
So just the fact that heals are faster is worth A LOT!
You prevent other players dying very often by this extra speed.
Quantifying this effect is nearly impossible imo, as Daidalos said.

So you have to go more by feeling here.
And my feeling says it rocks like hell!
Especially at speed fights like RoS phase 3 and Gurtogg this is just godlike and I dont care if it doesnt quantify into more HPS on paper (actually it even does the more +healing you already got and the less haste you already got - we had info on that in this thread earlier).

2. Less overhealing
When healing 5 k with a 2.5 sec. heal you tend to overheal more than with a 4 k heal with a 2 sec. heal - pretty obvious I guess.
And this less overhealing translates into higher actual HPS, obviously again while spamming (which isnt untypical on many fights). Because more of your healing actually heals.

So these two points I just tried to make, translate into a much higher healing efficiency on most (critical?) fights from BT on, although quantifying the effect I just described, absolutely seems to be just impossible. But it should be food for thought not just to look too much on spreadsheets and go more by feeling here imo.

So figuring haste out in a purely mathematical way isn't the perfect thing to do imo. You have to use it a bit by feeling imo.

*Luke, trust the force* :P

So valueing 1 +Haste = 2 +Healing on T6 level and/or a shadow priest in group seems to be even in favor of +healing for most boss fights on T6 level imo.

 

kraj

I wear bracers/belt/gloves for tier2 with t6 helm/shoulders/chest/legs. I have 279 haste and 2123healing(if i don't use a pvp trinket) and my mp5 drops to 116+memento.

I'll log out in my twins gear and see if armory catches it. A shadow priest is a necessity.

 

Daidalos

I basically agree with your points. I find myself thinking about gemming for haste even if its not technically better hps. My only concern is being stuck with this if I don't have a spreist but you can still downrank using haste so I'm thinking along the same lines. I'm hesitant to change the overal HEP values but for those deep into Sunwell I think alot of people are coming to similar conclusions.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Habanero

I think that my own gearing strategy going forward (just finishing up BT now in a casual guild) is going to be throwing Quick Lionseye in everything that doesn't have a very compelling socket bonus. For example, the socket bonus on T6 gloves is poor, so that was a prime candidate. I would probably retain the bonus on T6 shoulders but ignore the 2mp5 bonus on T6 chest. I'm also thinking when the next season starts that a new [Vindicator's Pendant of Reprieve] would blow away [Lord Sanguinar's Claim]. Has anyone seen any indication there would or would not be one?

Edit: Seems like there is a [Guardian's Pendant of Reprieve] that simply was not on mmo-champion. Looks delicious.

 

jaredh

The Guardian's HEPs out just below the ZA neck, but IMHO, it's better due to the stam and no spirit. The itemization is better, even though it has sliglty less haste.

This thing is well worth a 15,000 honor grind

 

Habanero

I'm right at 8000 HP right now and that's with 18 stam on my shield and Boar's Speed. I don't really consider losing any more stamina an option (already have a Weapon and Ring that have none on them and Shamans truly are a low base Stamina class), not to mention I've never actually won a Brooch, so it seems I should look to the new PvP necklace over the only other option that would be available to me soon (the BT neck).

 

Lugklash

I was thinking along similar lines. Unless the socket bonus is a substantial amount of healing, mixing [Royal Shadowsong Amethyst] with [Quick Lionseye] seems to defeat the purpose of the haste. I do like this combo in [Skyshatter Shoulderpads] and [Treads of the Life Path] for example, because it's like you're putting a Teardrop Living Ruby in the blue slot, and getting a free 2mp5.

I'm thrilled that there is finally a good yellow gem option for us. I've never been a fan of Luminous gems.

 

Mandrachalos

And it doesnt even have to have less haste if you decide for a yellow gem with 10 haste instead of red gem.

 

Ninarz

I have a question about when one might begin stacking haste. I'm sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, but I've read through much of this information and the wiki previous to posting this; if I missed something, please let me know.

Some of the questions I have are: should haste be stacked after acquiring the 2pc T6 bonus only, 4 pc only, or it doesn't matter? What about gemming for haste: is it more prudent to only gem for haste where you receive a bonus to your healing from the socket bonus or is there some other methodology to it? Is there a threshold for +heal that gives me a marker to shoot for when I can start really incorporating haste into my gear (like 2300, 2400, 2500)?

I've been looking over the T6 loot rankings from the Shaman Wiki and I'm a little intimidated because I feel like I have to learn how to gear better.

Thanks for any input.

 

Daidalos

The answers to all your questsions are "it depends". It depends on how much plus heal you have, how much mana regen you have, and what role in groups/raids you have.

Haste is always of some use the question is simply which is better mp5, healing, or haste. I would take alook at the stat weights in the wiki and if you still have questions just sit down and think about your recent healing experiences. Are you running out of mana? Are you generating alot of overheal? Are there just so many ppl low on health you can't get to them before someone dies? Are you frequently healing a tank or the raid.

Haste is great when mana isn't much of an issue and you need to hit as many people with a heal as fast as possible. Haste isn't as great when single target healing or when you are having mana issues. I think its ok to start getting haste gear at the t5 (and za) level when it starts coming availible but how much you stack and if you should gem for it will depend on your needs and situation. The wiki has good general advice, but you need to take that and apply it to your situation and modify things if needed accordingly.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Bungmeister

Let me preface this by stating that my guild generally tries to run with more healers than necessary. Because of such, I find haste is very much a "top the meters" stat in BT/Hyjal since the bosses don't have realistic time limits that you need to worry about at all. Obviously this is a YMMV deal. If you run Abananax style (WWS-scoreboard record setting runs), you obviously need to run with a minimum number of healers, and hence haste would be benefitial there.

The game sorta changes in Sunwell since each boss actually has a time-limit that you need to worry about. Hence there's suggested "limits" on how many healers you can bring and get away with. And so haste becomes much more important there.

Also, I don't think many of us have 2 sets of T6-resto to gem for haste and healing. As such, I don't really find it a valid arguement to be telling your raid-leader that "I need a spriest because I gemmed all haste" unless your guild is running 3+ shadowpriests a raid.

Of course, as others have pointed out, a spriest isn't necessary, however, you probably would need enough +healing to support chain heal rank 1-3 spams.

 

Mandrachalos

I dont think you would have to downrank as low as CH 1-3 without a SP.
You should at least be able to sustain CH 4 if you use one or two mana regen trinkets (like the one from Karathress which even profits by haste) and drink enough mana pots - at least if you are an Alchemist that should suffice.
The question then is if you are prepared to chaindrink mana pots on some fights - but that I see as normal as serious raider anyway.

So I think gemming for haste doesn't present you with any problems if you don't have a SP in your group, you just have to adjust a bit, but should be possible. You should have 2 T6 bonus though, yeah.

 

Habanero

I did absolutely fine progressing in BT with a lot of haste before having 2T6. Haste does not benefit more or less from 2T6 than +healing does, so it's really not a big deal. I still highly recommend the badge Totem over the Karazhan one unless you have already eliminated mp5 gems from your gear; that's a source of mana efficiency most people don't take advantage of. Don't be so cautious about spell haste; ask yourself if you're running OOM all the time (answer should be no for any healer at any gear/progression level) and if there are times when getting to someone faster on the next heal would save them. Efficiency concerns are secondary.