Herbie

I'll try to answer this then!

If you're outside of a raid and party, casting it on a random person of your own faction, CH can jump to other randoms.
If you're in a party, casting it on a party member, CH can jump only to other party members.
If you're in a raid, casting it on a party or raid member, CH can jump only to other raid members.

Honestly don't remember how it works if you cast it on yourself when you're outside of a party/raid.

 

Kengel

I don't know if this is the kind of response you want to this post or not, and I apologize if it isn't. I've healed Gruul and Mag on a holy paladin, and I'm considering leveling a resto shaman because of that. The paladin was alot of fun, are resto shamans as fun to play?

 

TheSorcerer

No. Resto Shamans just plain suck. You will hate it.
Seriously, this is like asking the pope if he believes in god.

 

pfg

well i can tell you this, my main used to be a t5+ holy pally with lots of raid experience (4/5 hyjal, 4/9 bt) - does that say something to you in all fairness they each have strong and weak points and i really dont have the time in on the shammy yet to make any real judgment, nor would i want to, on a is better than b. i will say i have alot more fun on the shammy out of raid no question, in raid im really impressed with how effective the shammy is even way undergeared compared to my pally.

 

Deadbeatdad

Have you evaluated wws for the mace proc, esp on end game encounters? I've had a spire, and I wear it for most fights, but I have been wholly unimpressed. In fact, for twins and muru i switch in my Zuljin Mace (Dark Blessing) for it because i get more out of the 30 spell haste then I would the proc.

From our wws, the heal affect on the Spire does about .5% of my healing on an average fight. The proc may be good, but its rate is pretty low for our group of healers. I would assume the less affective you are at healing the more procs you would get, but as your guild becomes better at SWP, the Spire would actually get worse.

This is just one of those situations where i think translating into HEP is overthinking it. The KJ mace has 23 haste that the illidan mace doesn't have, has more healing, all in place of a proc that you will need less and less. I would say in most any evaluation, if the mace of KJ comes out less desirable then the one of illidan, you did math wrong.

I'm also just amazed that your comparison ignored the haste on the KJ mace. But this thread has continued to discount haste because of its lackluster HEP value, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

Trennet

Any tips for healing Kalecgos?

Demon side is easy CH. But Dragon side, ppl are spread out a lot and CH doesn't feel especially effective. What do people recommend?

 

cosmeg

Our strat involves clumping up in the middle after coming back from the spectral realm. But before then, I just use lesser healing wave. This is when most healers are still up top too so it's not a big deal anyway. As the fight progresses I can switch to mainly chain heal.

 

Zazism

On kalecgos im normally healing the tank alot during the dragon phase and doing spot chain heals/LHW when needed on my group, we normally have a COH priest doing groups outside.

Also a tip, when your inside the demon realm. Use your heroism about 20 seconds after you get in, so that you have a couple seconds of heroism left over when you're ported out you can get some quick heals on the MT.

 

pfg

Cownage, thanks for the reply. but im still left with questions.

there is the range issue - right now it looks to me like the heal can jump to anyone within some range of either me or the target of the heal. this based standing at close to max range on supremus and healing MT, and seeing the jumps go to the OT's or melle that think its fun to stand in the pretty blue fire - lol. anyways and then also seeing it jump on after trash healup's seemingly huge distances, like 20 yards to target in front of me and then to someone 20 yards in the other direction standing 20 yards behind me.

i guess my worries on najentus come down to the second jump must have come to me and thus you cant "see" it and i didnt notice that at the time - i'll admit i was totally stressed by that fight going oom twice but we did get it done.

any other thoughts appreciated

 

Skyhoof

Anyone see any leaked shaman talents from WotLK Alpha testing? The shaman talents at http://urlshort.com/wotlk/site/talentlist.php seem identical to what we have now. Other sites have no shaman info.

 

Alihandra

Shaman talents weren't actually included in the version of the alpha that everyone has been molesting for info. The patch notes claim they were included, but as far as anyone can determine there's really nothing new for shamans in the current alpha.

 

TheSorcerer

How much "experience" you've gathered with you pally doesn't make any difference. I mean what do you expect walking into a shaman forum and asking "hi guys, how do you like shamans?". "Oh noes, they're crap nobody plays them except of us poor jerks..."? Of course we do like playing shaman and it is great fun - but you should have known the answer. If you want to know something in particular, eg if shaman outperform paladins in group healing or how well shaman can perform on tank healing, then you should specify your question a bit more - and of course read this thread and the wiki before. If your question is just as simple as "Are shaman fun to play and are they good healers?", then the answer is a simple as "Yes".

skyhoof: it looks like the patch notes are wrong on shaman talents. Shaman, paladin and rogue talents are still missing at the moment.

 

Pajaro

from the wiki:
I'd like to contribute to the wiki a bit, hope this is the right place.

At first I followed the above given advice and macro'd +heal trinkets with earthshield. It is a nice boost, but most of the time I raid (Zul Aman timed, some t5 beginnings with own guild and helping out guilds in the beginning of t6) I don't think it's too important just how much my Earth Shield heals. In fact the macro did something bad for me, it made me use the trinket when there wasn't much to heal, because that was the time I would refresh ES. So i macro'd +heal trinket into my CH5, which i only use when heavy raid healing is required (downranking to CH4 most of the time). That way I don't need to focus on using it (I would forget to use it manually in healing intense situations), but it rather activates when I need it. Also macro'd it into my instant HW12, don't know if thats a good idea yet.

 

Herbie

I've experienced my CH jumping all over the place sometimes, and not too far other times. It might be because subsequent jumps look for absolute health deficit. I haven't been to BT myself, but if Supremus has some short range AoE damage (Like, say, Lootreaver) then it's fairly logical that it jumps only to the melee/OT.

On trash however, perhaps a hunter took a beating and hogs one of the CH jumps?

All in all, CH sometimes doesn't want to jump a single yard and sometimes it jumps halway across the map - just keep casting it, hehe

I think the macro gets more useful as you progress in the instances. Seeing videos of Sunwell where you have shaman basically chaincasting CH throughout the fight, it probably doesn't matter when you activate the trinket.

I'm a big fan of macroing the +heal trinket to my NS macro too

 

Mandrachalos

Well, if you really don't need the Spire's procs, you won't need the extra haste and more +healing of the KJ mace as well.
I think it is a twisted logic to disregard the awesome proc of the spire just because your own raid group might own certain fights to the point where the Spire's proc isn't so important anymore.

The Spire's proc is just godly imo. Because it gives extra healing when it is needed the most and on who needs it the most - what should be better?
Certainly not these few extra points of haste and healing this new mace offers imo.
It is really hard to judge how much the proc is worth if you want to find abstract numbers for HEPs.
I guess the KJ mace might make you look better on healing meters but the Spire is better for actually keeping more people alive - which is what counts.
I just think it is still the best mace for shamans in the game for most fights - especially considering how well it scales with haste.

I am a big fan of haste myself and I use my own values for it, depending on the fight at hand. But the HEP values in this thread make sense and are a great help, especially for nonexpert-shamans.

 

Deadbeatdad

From my experience with haste, its not the throughput increase that wows me. Its that the 2.5 second heal gets at 2.0 secs or below, and hits targets before they are dead. I know 23 haste isn't a lot when you look at it, but it all adds up very quickly.

As far as the Illidan mace proc, "provides healing where needed most" it does...and it doesn't. Typically, that extra 200-400 healing doesn't change the fact that they will need another heal..which will come most likely from someone else, shortly after yours, and include overheal. It increases your hps, but when you look at it objectively, no one is going to step back and say, "man i'm glad I got that heal for 200 in there."

It just seems more important to get the heal of 4000 healing there on time, then that heal of 4200 there, because both will leave that target hovering around half life to 3 quarters, but being late on the first heal doesn't result in a mace proc. The KJ mace just seems like the best of both worlds, because it offers help on the timing of the heal and closes the difference between the healing gaps.

 

Opu

Due to some unfortunate circumstances, my raiding main is (likely) switching from a full t6 shadow priest to a late-t4, early-t5ish geared resto shaman. I'll have access to some BT gear -- probably getting dragged through a t6 clear for the 4pc -- but have some questions on how I should weigh EP values from this point forward. The first encounter I've healed in sunwell is M'uru.

Shaman Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

As you can see, I'm at about 1900 healing, 136 mana/5 unbuffed. Mana regen is a primary focus for my gearing right now. At what point do I devalue mp/5? The wiki EP values show that mp/5 is roughly 3 times more powerful than other stats, but there is a drastic drop-off in value once you're in t5-t6. Also, when should I start to blend in haste?

I've got quite a few badges and should see some t6 soon. Even in the best case scenario I can't see myself at more than 2250 healing, 200 mana/5 unbuffed anytime soon.

Apologies if this has already been covered in the thread, my searches didn't provide what I was looking for.

 

Mandrachalos

I agree that usually the first hit of CH is the important one.
But as much as 23 haste might not look like much but can add up quickly, as much the Spire's proc heals add up quickly - especially if you already got much haste.

I guess it depends on the given fight which one is better. If many people usually get below 50% health quite often and would qualify as secondary targets for CH, the Spire should still be best imo - even HPS-wise. On other fights where this isn't the case on a regular basis the KL mace could be better, sure.
But I would nearly never prefer Dark Blessing to the Spire tbh.

So bottom line:
Get both.

 

Skyhoof

There is indeed a hidden cooldown on [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] of 15 seconds. Here is the WWS: Skyhoof - WWS

I cast Rank 2 Healing Wave for about 3.5 hours. I had 10 haste rating. I had 7,237 casts and the meta gem procced 278 times, for a proc rate of 3.84%. The shortest time between procs was 14.9 seconds. The longest time between procs was 4 minutes, 8.8 seconds. The average time between procs was 44.8 seconds.

In the first test, I had a haste trinket and probably over 200 spell haste rating. The proc rate was about 3.5% in that test. However, we would expect the proc rate to decrease as spell haste increases if there was a hidden cooldown. With so much spell haste, I was able to cast more heals in the hidden cooldown period, thus lowering the proc rate.

 

Mano

Take this with a grain of salt, but I'd actually start devaluing MP5 right now. I.e. go for T6 HEP values which includes haste etc already.

The reasons are:
- you get much MP5 from buffs anyway: watershield 50+mp5, mana totem also, mana tide, blessing of wisdom 41+ MP5.
- consumables. Mana pots (I see you're an alchemist, use the effect on the stone), mageblood elixir, restoration flask, mana oil, sporefish.
- you get some more MP5 anyway on many items.
- you're doing this for the raid presumably. Expect to get a shadow priest ALWAYS while your gear isn't up to snuff; this will devalue MP5 pretty directly.

I'd do the following in general:
- try to get a good weapon as a priority: [Dark Blessing], the new badge weapon from Quel'Danas or S3 are all much better than your current one. Other healing weapons (e.g. Spire) may still be out of range for a new character depending on your drop luck uptodate.
- go for 4T6 the fastest you can. E.g. bracers from Kalecgos may already be cheap as you're at M'uru. The rest from MH/BT should also be cheap except for maybe the chest.
- get items from ZA: [Enamelled Disc of Mojo] is nice, [Tome of Diabolic Remedy], [Dark Blessing], [Hauberk of the Empire's Champion], [Signet of the Quiet Forest] from the third chest, [Mojo-mender's Mask], [Cloak of Ancient Rituals]. Maybe also some of the cloth/leather items if they don't have much spirit. Most of them are not quite up to T6 standard, but they can certainly help flesh out your set. Many of them have haste - they can build the back bone of your haste set.
- you're probably won't be attuned to MH, so the faction ring will not be possible. But the trash ring from BT [Blessed Band of Karabor] is very good (and not unique). If someone in your guild/on the server already has the recipe for the BOE-Jewelcrafter ring, you might want to get one of these.

Don't forget other stuff not directly related to healing
- you may also need to get a SR set for Mother
- maybe AR for Kalecgos
- many primal water/life for your enchants

 

Skyhoof

Yes, this is the right place to contribute to the wiki with an idea or something you want to discuss further. Posts in the actually wiki itself should be for corrections, clarifications or new info that needs to be added.

Macroing your trinkets to CH5 and HW12 is an excellent idea as long as you cast those spells about every 2 minutes. I will add this method to the wiki. However, just to clarify, the reason some shaman like to use the trinket with their Earth Shield is not only to give the ES more healing power. It's also to remember to use it every 2 minutes during the fight. Shaman will normally recast ES at least that often, if not more. However, I think your method could deliver more +healing just when you need it the most.

 

Pitbuller

Edit: douple post.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Pitbuller

I use this simple macro.

Now you only have to remember use CD at start and macro will notice you when it's up again.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Plummer

Ok, but I assume you were casting healing wave during the hidden cooldown. Correct my math if it's wrong.

Hasted cast time = 2.5/(1 + 10/1576) = 2.484237074401009.

The internal cooldown is 14.9 seconds so 14.9/2.484237074401009 = 5.9978172588832483138573784431447.
So you can get 5 casts in before the cooldown is finished.

278 procs * 5 casts during cooldown = 1390.

7237 casts - 1390 casts during cooldown = 5847 casts where the meta could proc.

278 / 5847 * 100% = 4.755% chance to proc outside of the cooldown which is a lot closer to the 5% on wowhead.

 

Skyhoof

Your math needs a slight correction since I was using Rank 2 Healing Wave, which has a cast time of 2.0 seconds or 1.5 seconds with talents.

Hasted cast time = 1.5/(1 + 10/1576) = 1.490542245

The internal cooldown is 15.0 seconds so 15.0/1.490542245 = 10.06345178

So you can get 10 casts in before the cooldown is finished.

278 procs * 10 casts during cooldown = 2780

7237 casts - 2780 casts during cooldown = 4457 casts where the meta could proc.

278 /4457 * 100% = 6.24% chance to proc outside of the cooldown


Also, the internal cooldown is 15.0 seconds. For whatever reseason, my combat log said 14.9 seconds but it also shows me getting GCD once of 1.3 seconds, which is not possible with the amount of haste I was wearing. I assume it's just some glitch between when messages are sent and received between the client and server.

EDIT: Changed math to 1.5 second HW