Daidalos

Your math looks right and I understand you are trying to help but I actually don't think the shaman theorycrafting section should include general theorycrafting in it. There is a thread about haste for such things although looking at the wiki I dont' see anywhere where spell haste is specially covered so maybe someone should do this. I'm not disagreeing with your point of many people not understanding how much haste they need. I'm just disagreeing that this is shaman specific in any way.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Shinwei

Does it really matter that much whether or not the information is Shaman specific enough? If it's useful information what harm is there in putting it up? Personally I found his haste table to be quite useful.

 

Zazism

Im kinda stuck between a couple things...

First to use [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] over [Bracing Earthstorm Diamond] ?

To use the ZA haste neck over [Nadina's Pendant of Purity]?

but most importantly i just picked up [Gauntlets of the Ancient Frostwolf] (2x 11healing 2mp5) and to my suprise it actaully has the same ammount of healing as [Skyshatter Gloves] (11 healing 2mp5), my question is should i throw in a 22 healing gem in that red slot instead?

<--- my armory

 

• Mjollnir

Curious to learn if this works for shams:
A priest of ours had 'double-casted' heals and only got hit by (1) 1250dmg penalty. He would cast greater heal *immediately* followed by either CoH, PoM, or Renew. Since both would go off at the same time, he was only penalized once.
Have any shams seen success in casting Earthshield immediately following, say, a CHeal?

 

• aya

As a priest, I've been doing the same, mostly healing the phase via casting Gheal on someone, and then instantly PoM on myself. After lots of testing with it, I've come to notice that most of the time both spells actually are penalized - the second lightening just comes on me a sec later than the first one. It's like there's a cooldown of sorts on how you can activate the lightening, but you can still stack up charges on the serverside. It could of course be that I'm just experiencing latency, but I can't really sign that it's possible to doublecast in order to be hit only once, not foolproof at leasts.

 

Larlar

Hi Zazism =)
I've never totally understood your gem choices, its not how I gem my gear anyways. If you look a few pages back you'll see skyhoof did a comparison of the HEP of best in slot gear with different gem/meta combos. [Bracing Earthstorm Diamond] with all +22 healing gems comes out on top, with [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond] with two +11 healing 2 mp5 and two +10 spell haste gems coming in a close second, getting the better colour bonuses where possible. Assuming you agree with his HEP values.

Personally with your level of gear (better then mine) I'd put in a [Insightful Earthstorm Diamond], gem your helm for +10 haste, a +10 haste and +11 healing 2 mp5 in shoulders, then regem every slot with +22 healing except for the blue slot in the legs, leave one shadowsong in there. That would net you +73 healing, +20 haste at the cost of -3 int -5.5 mp5. I ignored the -threat component. It's quite a big upgrade.

I have seen quite a few shaman recently regemming and replacing the blanket +22 healings with +10 spell hastes, so you could try at as well though it'd be a slight healing downgrade on your current gear, with a lot of haste added.

As for the neck, I have both as well as pretty much always use the ZA haste one now. The mp5 is nice but I'm happy to give it up for that much haste.

 

Tyde

Yeah, that's kind of the kicker. Maybe someone a little more creative than me can figure out how to rig something up, but as far as I've looked into it, you can't do the kind of range checking you need without having the other players help you out.

 

lrdx

I have updated the spreadsheet I linked in post 1381 (Google Docs: here Excel export: here) to properly use intellect, adding 0.3*INT to healing and the effect of Tide Totem to MP5 (Previously I just added 0.3*INT to the healing manually, and forgot about Tide.) It also assumes you have Blessing of Kings now.

As for the two rings: [Blessed Band of Karabor] makes your Chain Heal rank 5 heal the first target 6 HP more each cast, or make you more efficient by roughly 1.5 MP5 as [Ring of Flowing Life]. Yes, you will loose 70 HP (73.5 if you are a Tauren), but it does not help healing, for me 3-3.5 HPS and/or 1.5 MP5 > 73.5 HP.

As for efficiency, the updated values are 100 heal = 94 haste = 63 MP5 = 235 INT when you downrank Chain Heal 5 to Chain Heal 4 but maintaining the same amount of heal/sec. My calculations (done with a modified version of the same spreadsheet, I'll post it later.) show, that the value of MP5 is even smaller when you downrank to Chain Heal 3. So I recommend not to trade 1 MP5 for 1.58 heal, 1.49 haste or 3.73 INT or more.

 

lrdx

I absolutely love it, where can I get it?

Anyway. What does the helper addon do? Just counts the number of ppl within 11 yard (within "trade" distance), and broadcasts through the hidden raid addon channel? If it broadcasted who is actually within that range, the main mod could calculate if there could be a third jump as well.

 

Tyde

I was a bit worried about the extra processing time I would incur by having to navigate all possible combinations of jumps starting from each person in the raid to find the best one. However, it may not be a problem in actuality. I may try to improve it later on if it seems like the extra accuracy is needed.

I put the code on Curse to download here:

• GridStatusChainRule

Any further comments should be directed to the comments section of the Curse addon page. Thanks.

 

Mandrachalos

Well, there is much less useful information implemented under haste there already imo. For instance knowing that lowering CH to 1 second needs 2364 haste is more like academically useful info, eh?
All the info under "Haste Rating cap" isn't really abstract info as well. I think my numbers pretty much show what most people really want to know about haste:

"How much do I need for a certain effect?"

It was just an offer ofc. If you like I can do the math for even more marks, and for LHW as well.

 

Plummer

You're comparing a very inefficient heal to a very efficient heal since rank 4 takes no downranking penalty. I'm pretty sure we all know that rank 5 is reserved for when we need the most HPS when mana is a non issue. It's also important to note that simply adding X amount of healing for rank 5 to equal rank 4 doesn't mean you gain any mp5, you could have downranked before you added the healing and you can always go back to using rank 5 at any time. If anything it could be useful to show just how much mp5 you gain as well as how much HPS you lose when you downrank to certain ranks at varying +healing.

 

Skyhoof

I have added the information Mandrachalos provided on haste ratings needed to achieve certain Chain Heal cast times. I do realize that this information isn't specific to shamans but I find it very helpful. Ideally, someone will write a Spell Haste article for the Wiki. Until then, I will include the information in the Resto Shaman wiki.

 

Daidalos

Yeah I understand the usefulness I made a table for 1.5s 2s 2.5s 3s base cast times and the resulting hasted cast times for my own personal use but I didn't put it in my spreedsheets since it wasn't really shaman related. I have been thinking about putting in a lusted cast time. I can't make up my mind if lusted cast time is really something useful to look at it. Lusts are usually a small amount of overall casting I don't really imagine anyone making any decisions based on it but maybe people would like this?

Really there should be a haste wiki I'm kinda surprised no one has done it yet. When its done (hopefully someone has a burning desire to, but if not I could do it I guess) I'd recommend (re)moving any haste info.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Tatjiana

Shammy Theory Crafting-Done by me(but alot stolen from)
Proof that it is better to gem +heal than +haste
All these are aproximates but the right idea is there if any of my math is wrong tell me
2.4 seconds = 66 haste rating=8gem so 66haste 8*18=144 bonus heals
2.3 seconds = 137 haste rating=17gems so 137haste 17*18=306 bonus heals


Cast Time HPS HPS HPS
Jump #1 Jump #2 Jump #3

Rank 4 -2.50 1129 1694 1976
Rank 4 -2.40 1176 1764 2058
Rank 4 -2.50(w/+144) 1183 1775 2071
Rank 4 -2.30 1227 1841 2147
Rank 4 -2.50(w/+306) 1244 1842 2178

NOTE: +2000 Healing with Totem of Healing Rains (+87 healing)
Chain heal receives the following bonuses from +healing gear:
71% + 36% + 18% = 125% with no talents
94% + 47% + 24% = 165% with Purification (+10%) and Improved Chain Heal (+20%)

 

Daidalos

The argument for haste is not that is always provides better HPS (esp when down ranking) but that haste yeilds more effective healing due to heals being smaller but more often as well as if mana is truely not an issue using CH5 where haste is usually a larger HPS increase than +heal. For CH4 haste vs healing the hps increase is larger for +heal but I still find myself wanting more haste regardless of the TC.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Skyhoof

Our first look at what may change for shamans in Wrath of the Lich King:

Totems are in the physical school now. WoW Forums -> Now to Ollie for the Shaman Report.

Generally interpreted to mean they are no longer considered a spell so you can drop them while silenced.

 

Daidalos

Yeah since totems are physical things in our bags I've always thought it was dumb that we coudn't use totems while silenced. We are still very prone school locking since everything is nature, but its a nice little buff throwing down grounding while cs/silenced will be nice for sure and we can hope there are many more buffs to come.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

TheSorcerer

I seriously expect nerfs. All this shaman stacking in endgame raiding during Burning Crusade will hardly not affect shamans in WotLK. Expect to see some serious hits on Bloodlust, totems and / or chainheal - compared to what other classes will get of course. I'm especially concerned about the chainheal addheal modificator - 165% isn't it? Think about how this will skyrocket with 4k+ addheal, what we can easily expect to see during early to mid WotLK raiding content.

 

Daidalos

Well as far as pvp goes, which is really where this buff applies, that is not the case. I see no reason to expect nerfs.

If you weren't referring to the totem change but to shaman overall in pve while there is some validity to what you say, its an arms race though. Preist CoH and shaman CH do amazing jobs at healing the raid, but as anyone in sunwell knows you have to spam like crazy to keep up with the massive dmg. If chain heal is nerfed, I would expect future encounters to have less raid dmg. Its true resto shamans are heavily relied on, but I am betting they will try to do a better job buffing priests and pallys than do any shaman nerfs.

Pallys are great single target healers combine that with blessings and Judgements and buff-wise they are pretty on par with shaman.

Priests are great healers when CoH is effective and good single target healers, but CoH is somehwat situtional. Buffwise fort is a necessity but shadow protection is rather situational making them below shamans and pallys buff-wise and IDS being mutally exclusive with CoH further complicating matters. With recent spirit changes they don't really ever run out of mana but I personally think they could use some buffs heal wise.

Druids can be great healers esp in high movment fights. Combined with battle rez it makes them very handy esp when learning new encounters. Buffwise mark is decent but also below that of what shaman and pallys bring but overall in need of less buffs than priests imo.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Macblade

I think the reasons resto shaman are stacked don't have as much to do with the resto part as they do with the shaman part. If blizz wants to lower the benefits of stacking shaman in the raid they should look at modifying the way that totems work (so you don't feel like you could use 5 shaman and have one in every group) and the way that you can chain bloodlust/heroism so you don't just rotate your three resto sham through the melee group.

I don't really think that the resto shaman specific things-chain heal, mana tide are all the broken. CoH can be a pain in the ass, and you have to do more raid planning around (I think), but my guild managed to clear all of BT/Hyjal with CoH priests as our only raid healing 99% of the time (our first Illidan kill was sans chain heal). This is not to say that it wouldn't have been a hell of a lot easier, just that resto shaman are completely necessary and thus, I don't think they are brokenly OPed.

On a totally different note. I have a 62 shaman and I'm thinking about power levelling him and seeing if I can't catch up gear wise enough to at least join my guild on Farm nights in Hyjal and BT. On this note I have a couple of questions. First, should I start my gearing up when I first hit 70, by looking at the T4 gear weights, then move to T5 then T6, or should I simply start by looking at the T6 weights since I will be skipping multiple levels of gear along the way (hopefully). Second, I'm not sure if this is intended or not, but I noticed that the sunwell badge loot, when using the T6 weights at lootrank.com have the Ele sham legs [Rushing Storm Kilt] above the Resto Sham legs [Runed Scales of Antiquity]. From reading here, I would guess that is because haste is a pretty powerful stat at T6 whereas the Mp5 the resto legs are sporting isn't as valuable by that point. Would people say that the weights got it correct then or that this is one of those times when you can't just blindly follow the rankings?

 

fauxpas

It all depends on the rest of your gear. I think one shouldn't judge badge-loot with t6/sunwell weights, at least not when it's used in the 'welfare epic' way

When you are in a situation where the T6 weights apply to you, you should not need either of those pants, I'd say. Especially since getting T6 pants should be pretty easy if you've been farming BT for quite some time. Your badges would be better spent on slots you can't easily get good items for. E.g. weapon. T6 Pants have an extremely higher dropchance than any decent healing weapon.

Getting a decent amount of mp5 should be the first priority I'd say. Unless you're willing the use lots of consumables as it's fairly easy to improve mana regen compared to +healing. But everyone needs some staying power
Once you have reached a level you are familiar with, focus less on mp5. Though it really depends on how much gear you can expect from the raids. If they drag you through and noone needs anything then.. yeah, use T6 weights, or maybe something a tad more conservative.

 

Bellante

Perhaps a bit off-topic, I've been trying to search these threads for a while now for the answer, but so far it eludes med:

Redeemer's alchemist stone trinket, can you still use it if you've crafted it and drop alchemy? I've heard conflicting reports on both, and would like to hear from someone who knows for sure.

 

TheSorcerer

Of course I'm speaking of PVE, not PVP, where I could see some more buffs coming for shaman (windshock anyone?). When I said nerf, I did't want to say Blizzard will go "Jees, nerf SHAM4ns! Cut CH and make ES 1 charge buff!!11" but that other classes, especially paladins and priests will get "more love". I could imagine a reduction in the CH talent bonuses however. As long as the base healing of Chain Heal and Healing Wave won't change dramtically compared to each other Chain Heal will at some point break through Healing Wave in HPS and efficiency because of it's high +heal modifier. I dont believe Blizzard wants that to happen.

I don't know if you knew it - and maybe you don't want to see WotLK spoilers, then quit reading this paragraph now - but CoH will get a serious hit with WotLK. It will function raidwide instead of groupwide, but it will be on a 6 second cooldown. You can hardly heal your raid with 2 or 3 CoH priests then. While druids will become an aoe hot, that pritty much functions like CoH did, targeting wise, I don't believe this will be enough to really outheal raid damage as we have seen in BC.

However, I really believe we will see a reduction in overall raidwide damage with WotLK. I just think raidwide damage that, for the most part, isn't counterable through execution but must be healed through completely, isn't how encounters should be designed, because they favor raid stacking over personal skill and I believe this is something bad.

 

fauxpas

So from the "leaked alpha talents" (assumming they're real, some numbers obviously are wrong; http://wrath.druzya.org/yarr/?c=shaman&v=8472) I'd say Blizz is trying to make us more versatile. Nothing new for Chainheal at a first glance, but lots of stuff for our other Heals, some crit-based. And a new weapon buff for healing I suppose.

Yay for diversity, OHNOES for less half-afk-clique-healing while doing other stuff on trash