How to Heal like a Pro - Page 59

Herbie · 06/26/08, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Plummer

I just checked your results and it seems you missed the talent purification which grants an additional 10% to our healing spells. Also, the downranking penalty was found to be (Level Learned + 11)/70. So the numbers change to something like:

Rank 1 - 12.3
Rank 2 - 11.717460317460317
Rank 3 - 10.930864197530864
Rank 4 - 11.025287356321838
Rank 5 - 9.892592592592592
(Purification, Improved Chain Heal, no totem)

If you've experienced, like me that the base healing range of both Chain Heal and LHW are a bit higher now in your spellbook than they are on WoWHead, then those values are wrong.

I noticed this slight increase in the base healing when I was cross referencing WoWHead data with my spellbook data to ensure it was correct when I made my own healing spreadsheet for comparing stat changes with specific buffs applied. Since the increase isn't the same for all ranks neither in absolute amount nor percentual amount and the increase doesn't follow any specific pattern. It also appeared to be the same both in my regular healing build and with a fresh unlearning of talents, and stayed the same with the +base heal totem equipped or not.

Here are the old and new base values as well as the average difference in absolute and percentual values:

         Old:     New:      #:     %:
Rank 1:  320-368  332-381  + 6.5  +3.63%
Rank 2:  405-465  419-479  +14.0  +3.22%
Rank 3:  551-629  567-646  +16.5  +2.79%
Rank 4:  605-691  624-710  +19.0  +2.93%
Rank 5:  826-942  833-950  + 7.5  +0.85%

The HPM values according to my calculations, with 5/5 Purification, 2/2 Imp. CH and +2000 healing are:

Rank 1: 12.4146181318681
Rank 2: 11.8232789115646
Rank 3: 11.0254338624339
Rank 4: 11.1282068965517
Rank 5: 9.92475

If anyone else could please confirm the spellbook base values of Chain Heal, I'd appreciate it.

Edit:

Also, CH rank 4 will always scale better than rank 3. While both ranks, and all spells using +healing modifiers and the likes, will scale, CH4 will scale exactly 107.692307692308% better than CH3 in terms of how +healing benefits each spell.

Daidalos · 06/26/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Kdevil

Ok I know alot of this forum is based on Teir 5 and above raiding. But I currently raiding Kara. This if my first time raiding as a shaman healer. I used to raid as a paladin, so I am used to just spamming FoL. As it stands now raid buffed I am at 9k mana, and 1300 healing. I tend to Run out of mana Quite Frequient. Ive been using higher Rank healing spells. And once I read through this I down ranked some of those spells. But I'm not totally sure what rank spells I should be using. And I was hoping to get some advice on how to be more efficent with my mana and healing on kara raids. I know alot of the gear I am using is more towards Elemental spec. But that is because I was going to be ele spec, but my guild was short on healers and high on DPS, so I had to switch.

You can check out my resto spreedsheet to look at which spells is the best heal / mana for you. I have an overview tab that show efficiency and total time spamming till OOM and some other things.

Gili · 06/27/08, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by Binkenstein

2.4.3 patch note: Equipping an item will now cancel any spell cast currently in progress.

Say bye bye to those /cast /equip totem macros.

Would it make any sense at all to change the sequence in the macro to: /equip totem /cast spell
instead of having the cast before the equip? Perhaps someone else has a solution to this? With the patch, I now consider some of my totems virtually worthless.

Daidalos · 06/27/08, 5:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gili

Would it make any sense at all to change the sequence in the macro to: /equip totem /cast spell
instead of having the cast before the equip? Perhaps someone else has a solution to this? With the patch, I now consider some of my totems virtually worthless.

No switching relics incurs a GCD. The reason why this worked previously was, if that you were already on a GCD from your cast, then there was no additional GCD when switching relics. This just basically means I go back to what I did before I used macros. I had all my relics on a very small hotbar I made, and if I know in advance that I will exclusively need a particular relic I will switch to it ahead of time. Otherwise I'll just have the chain heal relic equipped.

Grungo · 06/27/08, 5:12 PM

Originally Posted by Gili

Would it make any sense at all to change the sequence in the macro to: /equip totem /cast spell
instead of having the cast before the equip? Perhaps someone else has a solution to this? With the patch, I now consider some of my totems virtually worthless.

That wouldn't work because swapping a weapon during combat causes a global cooldown (and resets your swing timer, but that's unrelated to this). The reason that /cast /equip (in that order) worked in the past is because even though swapping a weapon would cause a global cooldown, it could be used while another cooldown was already going, so you were effectively piggy-backing the weapon-swap's GCD onto the cast's GCD.

lrdx · 06/28/08, 9:45 PM

As the game considers the healing from earth shield cast by whoever the buff was cast on, it adds threat to him and procs [Crystal Spire of Karabor], [Fel Reaver's Piston] and [Shattered Sun Pendant of Restoration] (well, all items with chance-on-direct-heals) if cast on self.

Let's say I cast ES on a druid with [Crystal Spire of Karabor]. Can it proc the mace if the ES procs? (I know, quite theoretical question, because it is rare that ES is cast on an another healer...)

Another thing:

Wowhead made an excellent item weighting tool, much easier to use than any other loot ranking site. I suggest adding links to the wiki (Stat weights to evaluate gear section) filled with T4/T5/T6 weights:

Also, check out T6 weights for best back, second-best leggings and second best rings, wiki is inconsistent with Wowhead's results. Might be because of bad numbers in Wowhead (seen it before), if not, rethink the best / second best item or the T6 weights.

Skyhoof · 06/30/08, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by lrdx

Wowhead made an excellent item weighting tool, much easier to use than any other loot ranking site. I suggest adding links to the wiki (Stat weights to evaluate gear section) filled with T4/T5/T6 weights:

Also, check out T6 weights for best back, second-best leggings and second best rings, wiki is inconsistent with Wowhead's results. Might be because of bad numbers in Wowhead (seen it before), if not, rethink the best / second best item or the T6 weights.

Back: Wowhead lists [Tattered Cape of Antonidas] as the best in slot using the T6 values. Technically, it is the highest ranked cape by the stat values in the Wiki. However, I would argue that it's not worth taking from DPS casters and it's probably the rare raid in which there won't be a caster who wants this cloak.

First, it has the same amount of haste as [Shroud of the Highborne]. Second, the cape from Kil'Jaeden has -2 healing compared with the cape from Illidan. Its higher ranking comes from its +3 Intellect and +1 Stamina. Granted, I would rather have the +15 mana and +30 health over +2 healing but it's a very slight upgrade.

I will make a footnote in the wiki about the Kil'jaeden cape.

Legs: I still think the two items listed in the wiki are the best option for healing legs in the game. The other legs listed by Wowhead are all DPS caster legs. Now, granted, you could make a nice haste set with [Pantaloons of Growing Strife]. And that's certainly something to keep in mind and possibly pick up if you can.

Rings: I show Wowhead listing the same rings as in the Wiki -- [Ring of Flowing Life] and [Blessed Band of Karabor]

Sprout · 07/01/08, 2:01 PM

I wanted to run someting past you guys to see what everyone thinks.

I have been putting together a haste set and having alot of fun doing it. For me haste is NOT about HPS, its about landing the heals when needed. I firmly believe in the adage that you can have the best +heal ever but if your target is dead you failed.

I have noticed a reduction in the cast speed advantages in recent upgrades. I got my full haste set down to 2.01s on CH/HW, but I am starting to question the ammount of other stats I am having to give up. This lead me to 2 possible conclusions:

1) The reduciton issue is just in my head

or

2) There may be a sweet spot for haste, lowering the cast time below about 2.1 seems to have a much higher relative cost in terms of landing heals in a timely manner. Obviously going from 2.10-2.0 shaves off 5% of the time to cast. But at what point does it become counterproductive in other stats. This is especially true in boss fights (trash obviously is not an issue since you can drink in between).

I am thinking of locking in my haste around 260, then swapping back to raise my mp5 and + heal for the rest of sunwell (we are on Felmyst). Any thoughts from sunwell vets?

Bury · 07/01/08, 3:37 PM

Your post is a bit vague. What exactly is the problem you're facing? Are you going out of mana, or are you unhappy with amount that each heal is doing?

Edit: Personally I think the more haste the merrier in my experience up to M'uru. On M'uru however I downrank to CH2 in raid healing.

Sprout · 07/01/08, 5:40 PM

Originally Posted by Bury

Your post is a bit vague. What exactly is the problem you're facing? Are you going out of mana, or are you unhappy with amount that each heal is doing?

Edit: Personally I think the more haste the merrier in my experience up to M'uru. On M'uru however I downrank to CH2 in raid healing.

\

I guess thats the thing. I cant pinpoint any specific problem (mana is an issue but not so much that pots and MT cant handle it). Its just a vague feeling that the ROi on bumping haste is less. As I said in my initial post I might be nuts here. Just wondering if anyone else saw any kind of diminishing returns on the benifits of cast time reduction.

Daidalos · 07/01/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

\

I guess thats the thing. I cant pinpoint any specific problem (mana is an issue but not so much that pots and MT cant handle it). Its just a vague feeling that the ROi on bumping haste is less. As I said in my initial post I might be nuts here. Just wondering if anyone else saw any kind of diminishing returns on the benifits of cast time reduction.

Again its just too vauge of a statement. If you are talking about healing meters I've out healed people with over a 150 more haste than I did and had less mana problems doing so. However for Entropious and maybe on twins I can't really blame someone for getting all the haste they can. If you are talking about HPS there is a sweet spot however since you don't really what question you are asking we can't really answer.

I have cleared sunwell and I still prefer a more balanced healing and haste point of view, but I can certainly understand those who put in all haste gems. Those that go this route it becomes hard to judge. It very well could have made the difference on that first kill but it certainly seems that once these encounters are on farm its not neccesary.

Tagamogi · 07/02/08, 3:30 PM

Originally Posted by Herbie

If you've experienced, like me that the base healing range of both Chain Heal and LHW are a bit higher now in your spellbook than they are on WoWHead, then those values are wrong.

[...]

Here are the old and new base values as well as the average difference in absolute and percentual values:

         Old:     New:      #:     %:
Rank 1:  320-368  332-381  + 6.5  +3.63%
Rank 2:  405-465  419-479  +14.0  +3.22%
Rank 3:  551-629  567-646  +16.5  +2.79%
Rank 4:  605-691  624-710  +19.0  +2.93%
Rank 5:  826-942  833-950  + 7.5  +0.85%

If anyone else could please confirm the spellbook base values of Chain Heal, I'd appreciate it.

Yes, the "New" numbers above are the exact same base range values I get in my spell book in game. This isn't something new - I first noticed this discrepancy between the in-game healing ranges and the data on Wowhead/Thottbot about a year and a half ago. I don't know what's causing this difference.

Daidalos · 07/02/08, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tagamogi

Yes, the "New" numbers above are the exact same base range values I get in my spell book in game. This isn't something new - I first noticed this discrepancy between the in-game healing ranges and the data on Wowhead/Thottbot about a year and a half ago. I don't know what's causing this difference.

There is the same discrepancy with LB values and most likely every spell in the game. People who paid more attention than I did to my base values as I leveled say have stated that the base value increases slightly with level until the next rank. There is no known foruma for the amount of increase and I certainly didn't want to relevel a character to verify this. Hopefully someone will remember when we all start leveling for lich king and make note of it.

rava · 07/03/08, 8:07 PM

Has anyone else noticed some odd workings with haste? I have a listed value of 436 that displays as 27% on my character sheet and my spell tooltips reflect a 27% haste value, but 436 haste should really be 27.77 haste. I realize this could purely be visual, but take lesser healing wave for example. I thought it was something to do with rounding the final cast time, but it isn't. At 27% haste the lhw cast time is 1.181(it's listed as 1.18), if I go on what it really should be @27.77 the cast time would be 1.173. I find this really awkward.. not only because there appears to be some sort of rounding going on in the actual haste calculation, but if I take off a piece of gear with 10 haste the cast time's are actually affected without changing the listed 27% haste value. Taking it a step further I took what 27% haste would be in terms of rating(423.9) and subtracted 10 from it, which makes the haste value really 26.23%. Using 26.23% to check the cast times after removing the shield matches up with cast times listed.

◊ Kalman · 07/05/08, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by rava

Has anyone else noticed some odd workings with haste? I have a listed value of 436 that displays as 27% on my character sheet and my spell tooltips reflect a 27% haste value, but 436 haste should really be 27.77 haste. I realize this could purely be visual, but take lesser healing wave for example. I thought it was something to do with rounding the final cast time, but it isn't. At 27% haste the lhw cast time is 1.181(it's listed as 1.18), if I go on what it really should be @27.77 the cast time would be 1.173. I find this really awkward.. not only because there appears to be some sort of rounding going on in the actual haste calculation, but if I take off a piece of gear with 10 haste the cast time's are actually affected without changing the listed 27% haste value. Taking it a step further I took what 27% haste would be in terms of rating(423.9) and subtracted 10 from it, which makes the haste value really 26.23%. Using 26.23% to check the cast times after removing the shield matches up with cast times listed.

Haste value is listed as integer %, but the sub-integer % is being accounted for (I verified this on my shadowpriest a long time ago).

436 haste should be 27.66 haste (15.76 per %), which gives a cast time of:

1/(1/1.5*1.2766) = 1.17499. At that point, a pair of rounding issues make the 1.18 believable - assume it rounds up to 1.175 internally, and then to 1.18 for display. 26.23% would give a cast time of 1.188, not 1.181. 1.181 in fact corresponds to 27% haste, which would be 425.52 rating.

TLDR version: something's wrong in your math and your observations. Check both.

rava · 07/05/08, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Kalman

Haste value is listed as integer %, but the sub-integer % is being accounted for (I verified this on my shadowpriest a long time ago).

436 haste should be 27.66 haste (15.76 per %), which gives a cast time of:

1/(1/1.5*1.2766) = 1.17499. At that point, a pair of rounding issues make the 1.18 believable - assume it rounds up to 1.175 internally, and then to 1.18 for display. 26.23% would give a cast time of 1.188, not 1.181. 1.181 in fact corresponds to 27% haste, which would be 425.52 rating.

TLDR version: something's wrong in your math and your observations. Check both.

I was going off of wowwiki's listing of 15.7 haste per %. If it is 15.76 then it would make sense, but just about all of their math is done based off of 15.7

A bit hasty in my response- the 1.181 was meant to reflect a 27% haste cast time as an example.

◊ Kalman · 07/05/08, 4:40 PM

It's 15.76 (or possibly 15.77, depending on which source you trust). Wowwiki isn't internally coherent, but Combat rating system - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft lists the 15.76 number.

RockCrock · 07/05/08, 11:58 PM

Hey guys, got a problem on my hand, looking for some help.

My guild downed KJ for the first time last week. All the best items are now accessible. So the question on my mind is which T6 pieces do I wear to maintain 4pc bonus, and still have the rest of my items as best in slot? I know belt, bracers, and boots are all top of the line, but i'm not sure which to keep as the 4th and still max my other stats.

Thanks.

rava · 07/06/08, 1:02 AM

Originally Posted by RockCrock

Hey guys, got a problem on my hand, looking for some help.

My guild downed KJ for the first time last week. All the best items are now accessible. So the question on my mind is which T6 pieces do I wear to maintain 4pc bonus, and still have the rest of my items as best in slot? I know belt, bracers, and boots are all top of the line, but i'm not sure which to keep as the 4th and still max my other stats.

Thanks.

Shaman: Restoration

Reading is hard.

RockCrock · 07/06/08, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by rava

Shaman: Restoration

Reading is hard.

Yeah I read that. I don't see where it says "this is the best setup with 4pc incorporated." I realize 4 of the pieces listed are from T6, but I assumed the list is outdated, as T6 shoulders were listed as best in slot.

• Shifft · 07/06/08, 3:59 AM

Originally Posted by RockCrock

Yeah I read that. I don't see where it says "this is the best setup with 4pc incorporated." I realize 4 of the pieces listed are from T6, but I assumed the list is outdated, as T6 shoulders were listed as best in slot.

Read directly below it, where it says ++ Instead of wearing the Tier 6 shoulders, you can use [Skyshatter Chestguard] with [Shawl of Wonderment].

Skyhoof · 07/07/08, 12:43 PM

Or you can find the info here: Shaman: Restoration

Tier 6 (Skyshatter): You want four pieces. The set bonuses are fantastic. It doesn't matter what stats another piece of gear has, you are always better off with the set bonuses.

The two-piece bonus is worth 64 mp5 assuming you cast 15 chain heals per minute. If you cast 20 chain heals (3 seconds per CH), it's worth 85.5 mp5.

The four-piece bonus is worth 82 healing (from the base spell) plus 0.06675 per point of +heal.
according to Shamstats by Binkenstein. If you had 2000 +healing, your chain heal on three targets would gain an extra 216 healing.

Best pieces to wear: Bracers, Belt, Boots and Shoulders/Chest. The first pieces of T6 that most people get are the gloves (Azgalor) and the helm (Archimonde).

Wallix · 07/07/08, 1:15 PM

I've been a long time reader (first-time poster!) of these forums and have poured over the Shaman/Heal Wiki countless times. First off, let me just quickly say that I switched to a Shaman from my old main (Mage) because our guild was short on them. I feel I may be missing out on a lot of innate knowledge that many of you posses. OK, now that I got that out of the way....

I know it's bad-form to obsess over healing-meters, but for some reason, our guilds' main shaman is always beating me by 5-6% on the meters. We just got Kalecgos down last night, so we are doing OK, but I still feel like I am slacking somewhere. I think the main thing that separates us is that, at the end of the night, his CH's hit almost 700-800 more people than mine, which is well over a million more healing then my CH's. He has about 60 more Haste than I do (I have around 100), and our +heal is roughly the same. I'm not against the notion that I just plain suck, but that's why I'm here.

I guess I'm just looking for any tips-of-the-trade on making CH's jump more. I admit, I am simply looking at Grid and just healing who's low, but maybe there's more to it? Thanks!

Mielinh · 07/07/08, 2:49 PM

Hello fellow shaman!

While bored at work I have been developing a simulator, initially designed to tell me how long I will last without a shadow priest in my group, but has turned into a healing calculator and shows the effects of various trinkets etc. I already talked to other people about it, and I think it's ready to be presented to the public as a means of fixing it up more and letting it be used to theory craft different things, such as 5% crit vs 5% mana, mp5 vs int, and show you an -estimated healing possible- during fights.

Not everything is working perfectly, such as the shadow priest simulator, but I feel it's fairly accurate. Any feedback to fix it up would be lovely

https://www.admin.mtu.edu/esis/test/oom.php

Credits to the Resto Shaman posts here and Boko's healing coefficients linked in the wiki.

Plummer · 07/07/08, 3:48 PM

Originally Posted by Mielinh

Hello fellow shaman!

While bored at work I have been developing a simulator, initially designed to tell me how long I will last without a shadow priest in my group, but has turned into a healing calculator and shows the effects of various trinkets etc. I already talked to other people about it, and I think it's ready to be presented to the public as a means of fixing it up more and letting it be used to theory craft different things, such as 5% crit vs 5% mana, mp5 vs int, and show you an -estimated healing possible- during fights.

Not everything is working perfectly, such as the shadow priest simulator, but I feel it's fairly accurate. Any feedback to fix it up would be lovely

https://www.admin.mtu.edu/esis/test/oom.php

Credits to the Resto Shaman posts here and Boko's healing coefficients linked in the wiki.

Looks great! As a list to of things to add I would say Earth Shield and maybe an average up time on that as well. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing an option for being able to drop Searing Totem. I did notice that when replacing totems it was exactly 1 second so it didn't take latency into account.