Ranks 6-8 seem to have been fixed in the last push. The problem is that lvl 80 combat dummies seem to have quite a bit of armor. If you test on the level 60 combat dummies you'll see rank 8 hitting for an appropriate value.
and I was curious, has anyone done any testing to determine the actual amount of armor they placed on the targeting dummies?
(I would go and test it myself but servers are down atm)
and I was curious, has anyone done any testing to determine the actual amount of armor they placed on the targeting dummies?
(I would go and test it myself but servers are down atm)
On PTR it feels like the dummies have their respective level boss values. So without Sunder armor it feels as if the level 70 target dummy has 6.5k~ armor. Just hire a warrior to Sunder Armor for you and hit the level 80 dummy - the miss rate on the level 60 dummies will be lower so it'll throw your actual dps off I think.
WotLK Build 9034
Elemental
- Improved Fire Nova Totem doesn't have a chance to stun targets anymore and will reduce their movement speed instead.
Enhancement
- Flurry attack speed increase has been modified to 10/15/20/25/30%. (Up from 5/10/15/20/25%)
- Dual Wield Specialization now increases your chance to hit while dual wielding by 2/4/6%. (Up from 1/2/3%)
- Maelstrom Weapon now has a 100% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, Lesser Healing Wave, Chain Heal or Healing Wave spell by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec. (Up from 3/6/9/12/15% chance)
"Due to technical issues (mostly related to people driving in slow and unreliable cars), you'll have to wait a few more hours (4 or 5) before seeing an update of the skills list and talent calculator."
An interesting feedback mechanism that they could employ, if they keep SS to only buff nature damage, is to give a scorch-like component to flame shock... effectively, giving flame shock a stormstrike like damage affect, but specifically for fire spells. This would help out both Elemental and Enhance, as it would be a feedback mechanism, ensuring that FS is on the target for LL / LvB and FT Weapon to maximize dps...
This would also make us potentially think twice about spamming only ES, not to mention possibly taking the longer duration flame shock glyph at 80
I would suppose he means the feral swiftness talent. On live it only works outside but I read somewhere that it would work inside aswell.
Correct. It was changed (or a blue posted that it will be changed, at least) in Beta. We should be able to stay wolf indoors, just like druids with feral swiftness (or druids without swiftness, for that matter).
Did a 5 minute targeting dummy run with the 2.8 onehander and had 62 procs making it roughly 12.4PPM.
Starting the 5 minute run with a 1.5 dagger with WF totem down for comparison purposes now, I'll edit the results in after.
Yup, hasted 1.5 dagger with WF totem down also returned exactly 62 procs.
Would need a much longer run to be 100% sure but really is looking good for a PPM of 12.4
What does that mean?
With a 2.6 speed weapon you have a 54% chance to gain a proc before haste. With Flurry and WF Totem you would have a 36% chance per hit.
With a 1.4 speed weapon you have a 29% chance to gain a proc before haste. With Flurry and WF Totem you would have a 19% chance per hit.
Comparing offhands
Offhand gets 17.5 additional hits every minute from instants. With a 2.6 speed weapon and 50% haste that would give you an additional 6.3 procs of MW. The 1.4 speed weapon will get an additional 3.3 procs of MW.
So it's the additional Flametongue damage vs the additional Lava Lash damage and 3.3 procs of MW.
I'm sure the Sim will answer the question definitively tomorrow but I think that slow is going to beat fast in this matchup.
Edit to clarify - that's with one weapon in the main hand, no weapon in the offhand and no instant attacks at all, pure autoattack for 5 minutes.
Didn't someone say something about making PPMs scale with haste? Rounced, could you try dropping WFT and seeing if it matches up with the predicted 36% (or 19%) chance?
- Maelstrom Weapon now has a 100% chance to reduce the cast time of your next Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Burst, Lesser Healing Wave, Chain Heal or Healing Wave spell by 20%. Stacks up to 5 times. Lasts 30 sec. (Up from 3/6/9/12/15% chance)
Can anyone confirm that this is not a typo and that Lava Burst is still available to Maelstrom Weapon?
Just playing around with it for a few minutes it does seem to proc quite often and working properly with all of our instance attacks.
It doesn’t seem to have any internal CD either as it jumped from 3 to 5 procs instantly more than once.
PPMs do NOT scale with haste they change their proc rate based purely on your paper doll stats. You add more haste then your proc rate decreases.
Just did a run with a Soul Cleaver (3.6 2hander) and had 13PPM with the only haste being Flurry.
Most accurate test results should be from the fastest weapons possible which is why I think 12.4 is pretty much on the money - gonna go respec and remove flurry and try a 1.3 dagger with as much haste as I can get from none procs and see if the results are consistant.
As for Lava Burst - definitely does not work with that at all.
Edit - ran the dagger test - 1.3 dagger hasted down to a 1.04 speed with WF Totem and equipement haste. No Flurry. 61 procs over 5 minutes which would be 12.2 PPM. If someone wants to do an hour or so they can be my guest but my 20 minutes with various weapons averages out to 12.5 PPM so I would respectfully recommend using that to update the Sim so we can see what it means for our dps and weapon/imbue choices.
Edit - ran the dagger test - 1.3 dagger hasted down to a 1.04 speed with WF Totem and equipement haste. No Flurry. 61 procs over 5 minutes which would be 12.2 PPM. If someone wants to do an hour or so they can be my guest but my 20 minutes with various weapons averages out to 12.5 PPM so I would respectfully recommend using that to update the Sim so we can see what it means for our dps and weapon/imbue choices.
I ran the same test 1.3 dagger hasted to 1.03 after WF totem, haste gear, and no Flurry. 60 procs over 5 minutes.
Wow. My short, not-so-scientific tests have shown me that the new MW is sooooooo much better than the earlier incarnations for my poor undergeared, just-80 shaman.
I have to say, I'll miss LvB's big crits, but this is so very nice. I wonder if they intended it to proc this much.
Actually the proc rate is consistant with what it used to be when it was based on crit. With a 2.6 speed weapon you will be seeing a 34.6% proc rate (with Flurry and WF Totem active). Under the crit based system you would be counting on basically 100% Elemental Devastation uptime which means you would only need 25.7% melee crit to equal the current PPM mechanic. So if that was their original goal for how quickly the talent would stack charges they seem to have hit it right on the nose with the new PPM mechanic.
Originally Posted by Suryaa
I ran the same test 1.3 dagger hasted to 1.03 after WF totem, haste gear, and no Flurry. 60 procs over 5 minutes.
Don't forget I had a 5 minute test with a 3.6 speed 2-hander and had 65 procs over those 5 minutes.
I think when all is said and done and averaged out we will end up somewhere between 12.1 and 12.5 for the actual PPM rate. (betting on 12.4 but we'll know for sure once someone does a seriously long testing session)
PPMs do NOT scale with haste they change their proc rate based purely on your paper doll stats. You add more haste then your proc rate decreases.
They changed the way one of the Paladin spells worked so that they used base weapon speed for the PPM. It is possible that they could do the same for us.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 12.4PPM mean one instant-cast spell every 25 seconds? I don't see why that would be so high; you wouldn't even get an instantcast on most solo pulls when grinding and would need to save up stacks between fights. If you meant 12.4PPM per hand (24.8 overall), that's one instantcast spell every 13 seconds, which is pretty nice but not crazy high.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't 12.4PPM mean one instant-cast spell every 25 seconds? I don't see why that would be so high; you wouldn't even get an instantcast on most solo pulls when grinding and would need to save up stacks between fights. If you meant 12.4PPM per hand (24.8 overall), that's one instantcast spell every 13 seconds, which is pretty nice but not crazy high.
Yes, it's 12.4 per hand. All the testing is being done with a single weapon equipped.
The other thing you aren't taking into account is Instant Casts don't affect the proc rate. So each instant cast is another chance to proc at the rate that gets you to the right PPM without involving the instant casts. Windfury also factors in since whenever it procs that is an additional 2 instant chances for procs that do not disturb the PPM rate.
I'm not doing a very good job explaining this, maybe this will help.
They changed the way one of the Paladin spells worked so that they used base weapon speed for the PPM. It is possible that they could do the same for us.
Except they have no need to do that with us and the testing I've done so far showed incredibly similar PPM rates no matter what speed weapon was used and no matter how much haste (or lack of haste) was involved, which would seem to conclude that they didn't involve the pally mechanic in this situation.
1st try 81 procs over 5 minutes.
2nd try 75 procs over 5 minutes.
3rd try 82 procs over 5 minutes.
Looks like we will need more testing to see exactly how it is working. My numbers were very consistant but were nowhere near those, I did have mongoose on my first test which was a 2.8 speed mace but the others were all without mongoose being involved. Hopefully more people will do more testing until we get more statistically viable results.
I'm running 10 man naxx right now and the proc rate is insane, this can't be intended. I'm getting full 5 stacks every 3-4 seconds, and at one point had a full 5 stack before I'd even touched a mob. It was almost like it procced from other people's attacks.
This data suggests that the PPM is affected by weapon speed differently than we think. That could mean somewhere in the equation is a division by the weapon speed. Dividing by a number greater than 1 decreases the total but dividing by a number greater than 0 but less than 1 increases the total.
Example: 12 divided by 2 is 6. 12 divided by 0.75 is 16.
If this is indeed the case, then the fastest weapons you can find with a ton of haste would break it wide open.
Example: 12 divided by 0.5 is 24. 12 divided by 0.4 is 30.
However, I am reasonably certain they would fix this pretty fast. Lightning Knives would be top DPS in a hurry.
This even fits the pattern: 81 divided by 5 is 16.2. 12.2 divided by 0.75 is 16.26666
This is just a theory why the results suddenly changed so drastically. A large round of testing could verify this.
Edit: Ok, judging from Malan's post, it's just plain broke.
I´m trying to reproduce what happened to you Malan, I have tried every single totem and ability and ofc the wolves, I have tried to get hit by mobs, let them hit my totems and I have tried grouping with others. Nothing this far.
Btw are you guys using procwatch or something similar for the ppm testing?
Just did a 5 minute test*. As Rounced suggested - just 1 weapon equipped and I got 12.4 PPM as well.
Can anyone on the PTR confirm if Recount is bugged? All through my above test it was averaging me at 500 dps and when I stopped (hit 6 minutes) it went down to 0.6 dps - made sure I didn't have totems/wolves up at this point.
*PPM was wrong; thank you Rounced
Last edited by Krim : 10/04/08 at 9:27 AM.
Reason: PPM was wrong
Just did a 6 minute test with Rising Tide/Mounting Vengeance (both with WF) - got 46 lightning bolts (230 procs). Works out at a PPM of 38.
Looks like 16% per weapon from where I am. Using both 2.6 speeds.
That's NOT PPM.
You have to remove all your procs based on Instant attacks and from Windfury procs and then split it for each hand to get the PPM.
People who want to tests this just use a single weapon and no instant attacks and no windfury weapon and report your results. Try it grouped with someone else to see if their hits are giving you charges (as per Malan's report). Also try summoning the wolves while doing your run and your searing totem and see if you get charges from their attacks too.
All of those other things are Bugs and need to be reported but claiming the PPM rate is 38 when you include instants and windfury weapon is not helpful and is just inflammatory.
10/03/08, 8:04 PM
