Toots Hepcat

Forgive my ignorance, but I believe the WFT provides 16% haste, and 20% with talents.

Furthermore, I don't know where you've been but the 1.5s "cap" was disproven in game a long time ago. There's a detectable dip in the RATE of DPS increase as you pass below 1.5, but your DPS still increases at a decent clip.

Fact of the matter is, with a relatively low 15% dodge and miss chance you only have about a 31% chance of hitting and then proccing WF on the first swing out of the cooldown. 69% of the time, you have to wait for the second swing, then the third, and so on. Haste guarantees that second swing after a proc will not proc WF, but it also makes each additional swing come that much faster, which helps offset this loss. Also, your other weapon (the one that didn't proc WF), due to the odd number of charges on Flurry, is usually out of sync with the one that popped WF, helping insulate against a guaranteed wait.

 

ChaguraED

ah, Thank you Toots.

I suppose my question should have angled more towards how significantly crossing the 1.5 speed affected the EP value of haste.

But if the untalented value of WF totem is 16%, that'll buy me another 4% haste from gear before I need to worry about it anyways.

 

Sydane

Short term haste is no different than permanent haste, except it doesn't last as long, and is usually a larger amount. What I guess we really need to see is an extension of the current model that shows lost Windfury time. It's hard to judge from the current graph, but 20% permanent haste means WF will treat your 2.7 speed weapon as a 2.25 speed weapon, and looking at the graph, it's certainly not jumping up into the danger zone of lost WF procs, not even close. It doesn't even look like a 5% increase in lost procs, and you'll have way more damage to show for that loss. Of course, the new models will answer all this, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that having the effects of both is going to be a good thing, unless you are running stupidly fast weapons.

Anyone else amused by the deleting of higher Rockbiter ranks and the comment "it's supposed to be replaced by windfury at level 30"? At least they are acknowledging that windfury is basically the only imbue worth using.

 

ChaguraED

I recall when it still had huge threat and you could use it for tanking up until 30!

It is good to see the vestigial buffs getting swept away though, and a clear weapon buff for each spec is quite nice too.

Of course, the new spell damage flame-tongue...can it stack on both weapons? /jokes

Edit: This just read by me - Shapeshifting will no longer cancel Water Walking.
Talk about a get-away!! ghostwolf and cross a pond.

 

ChaguraED

This just came up on the Warrior's thread:

I'm hoping this is an indication the mechanics for our instant cast will be the same.

Edit: Sorry, I keep adding more as I read forums. With Flametongue totem now adding spell damage, will we Enhance be on the line to drop that as well for ourselves and casters? it seems we're being given a very complete package of indispensable raid-buffs.

 

Killme888

If there's a resto shaman in the raid, he'd be dropping the Flametongue Totem, especially since our totems would only be 20 yards and probably won't reach the ranged/healers on some fights.

 

Kioe

Ignore this pls.

 

Killme888

That hasn't changed at all.. it's the same wording as it is on live.

 

Paladia

Not sure where you are getting this but it is incorrect when it comes to the actual windfury effect. Firstly it is 16% and secondly it works on range as well. See for example Windfury Totem - Spell - World of Warcraft

 

Aezoc

While the enhancement talents look pretty sweet, I'm concerned about threat. Unless I've missed something, our threat reduction abilities are unchanged, but BoSalv is gone and we're almost definitely going to have a higher % of total damage coming from spells in WotLK, thanks to static shock, maelstrom weapon, etc. This seems like a bad thing - fury warriors picked up a new threat reduction talent, and were already ahead of us anyways since imp. zerker affects 100% of their threat generated. I'm hoping there's something out there I just haven't seen yet.

 

Skiace

Tank threat is getting reworked and buffed (better threat scaling) across the board.

 

Aezoc

Right, but the increased tank threat affects all DPS equally, no? It still seems to me that either a) -30% threat on the majority (but not all) of our damage will be enough threat reduction and the newly improved -threat talents for other classes/specs (furious resolve, elemental precision, shadowform, etc) will be basically unnecessary, or b) some higher amount of threat reduction will be needed for most encounters, and our having no active threat dump and the highest threat generation is going to bite us in the ass.

I guess there's always an outside chance that spirit wolves could have some kind of threat manipulation ability. I doubt it, but that'd be one way to make sure people take it for PvE.

 

Illundai

That was actually straight from the beta patchnotes.

 

vesicular

As was mentioned above, removal of snares now exists. However, leveling another shaman now as I am, with the instant cast GW, 100 mana at lvl 20 is a lot when you're shifting in and out, off and on. Doesn't matter much to raiders, but for toons at low lvl, it will make a difference as well.

 

ethug

just remember will be getting watershield at 20 now as well so that should help quite a bit with mana.

can anyone in beta confirm what spirit wolves actually do?

 

Beowolf

Malan, does WF totem and flurry stack? If it does, then we will actually have our air totem benefit us for 20% increase in PvE damage, putting us on par with Rogues. If they dont, well, still better then nothing for those rare moments that flurry falls off.

 

Phlis

Yes, enhancement shaman will be dropping Flametongue totem. They're the only ones who will be speccing into Enhancing Totems, which increases Flametongue Totem's spell damage increase by 15%. So they'll have the best version.

Elemental Shaman, while we may be speccing into enhancement because of Mental Dexterity + Mental Quickness, will be dropping Totem of Wrath as our Fire Totem.

 

• Raut

20% haste != 20% more damage. And here's to hoping we don't end up at rogue DPS. That means nerfs.

Baby, you can hold my balls.

13:17 < Kalroth> gays on men tv? I love that channel

 

Paladia

Those patch notes seems to be messed up in more than one way. For now I'll believe the in game spell rather than time lingered patch notes.

 

Jheherrin

Given that enhancing weapon totems talent can now longer provide extra AP to WF totem, would it not be reasonable to think that the base WF totem gives 16% and the talented version gives 20% ?

 

Malan

Need someone to check the math on whether Windfury Totem is stacking properly with bloodlust.

Passive haste - 6.6%
MH weapon speed - 2.8, char sheet shows 2.63
With windfury totem (20% haste) shows 2.19
With Bloodlust + Windfury totem shows 1.68

RE Spirit Wolves: Nothing, they aren't implemented yet. Its a place holder talent right now. They summon out and just sit there.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Paladia

2.63/2.19 ~ 1.2 as in 20% haste
2.19/1.68 ~ 1.3, as in 30% haste

Seems to work fine.

 

Malan

What the hell?
Tooltip on my char sheet says that I'm getting 354 AP from Agility and I've definitely got more AP on Beta than I do on my live char with the exact same gear.

Attached Thumbnails

 

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Ulthwithian

Malan: How very interesting. Giving AP to Enhancement Shaman based on Agility would fit with the homogenization of gear drops. This means that you share gear with Hunters, no?

 

Tornaz

Well, I guess that's one way to cut down on the "why does all the mail have AGI" cries.

That makes AGI worth a lot to an enhance shaman.