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Old 07/18/08, 6:03 PM   #251
Toots Hepcat
Care for a jelly baby?
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Llane
Forgive my ignorance, but I believe the WFT provides 16% haste, and 20% with talents.

Furthermore, I don't know where you've been but the 1.5s "cap" was disproven in game a long time ago. There's a detectable dip in the RATE of DPS increase as you pass below 1.5, but your DPS still increases at a decent clip.

Fact of the matter is, with a relatively low 15% dodge and miss chance you only have about a 31% chance of hitting and then proccing WF on the first swing out of the cooldown. 69% of the time, you have to wait for the second swing, then the third, and so on. Haste guarantees that second swing after a proc will not proc WF, but it also makes each additional swing come that much faster, which helps offset this loss. Also, your other weapon (the one that didn't proc WF), due to the odd number of charges on Flurry, is usually out of sync with the one that popped WF, helping insulate against a guaranteed wait.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 6:17 PM   #252
ChaguraED
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Emerald Dream
ah, Thank you Toots.

I suppose my question should have angled more towards how significantly crossing the 1.5 speed affected the EP value of haste.

But if the untalented value of WF totem is 16%, that'll buy me another 4% haste from gear before I need to worry about it anyways.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 6:33 PM   #253
Sydane
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Warlock
 
Arygos
Short term haste is no different than permanent haste, except it doesn't last as long, and is usually a larger amount. What I guess we really need to see is an extension of the current model that shows lost Windfury time. It's hard to judge from the current graph, but 20% permanent haste means WF will treat your 2.7 speed weapon as a 2.25 speed weapon, and looking at the graph, it's certainly not jumping up into the danger zone of lost WF procs, not even close. It doesn't even look like a 5% increase in lost procs, and you'll have way more damage to show for that loss. Of course, the new models will answer all this, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that having the effects of both is going to be a good thing, unless you are running stupidly fast weapons.

Anyone else amused by the deleting of higher Rockbiter ranks and the comment "it's supposed to be replaced by windfury at level 30"? At least they are acknowledging that windfury is basically the only imbue worth using.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 7:05 PM   #254
ChaguraED
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Emerald Dream
Originally Posted by Sydane View Post
Anyone else amused by the deleting of higher Rockbiter ranks and the comment "it's supposed to be replaced by windfury at level 30"? At least they are acknowledging that windfury is basically the only imbue worth using.
I recall when it still had huge threat and you could use it for tanking up until 30!

It is good to see the vestigial buffs getting swept away though, and a clear weapon buff for each spec is quite nice too.

Of course, the new spell damage flame-tongue...can it stack on both weapons? /jokes

Edit: This just read by me - Shapeshifting will no longer cancel Water Walking.
Talk about a get-away!! ghostwolf and cross a pond.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 7:13 PM   #255
ChaguraED
Piston Honda
 
Orc Shaman
 
Emerald Dream
Good news perhaps?

This just came up on the Warrior's thread:

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle
Just confirming that Slam does not reset your swing timer when made instant through Bloodsurge.
I'm hoping this is an indication the mechanics for our instant cast will be the same.

Edit: Sorry, I keep adding more as I read forums. With Flametongue totem now adding spell damage, will we Enhance be on the line to drop that as well for ourselves and casters? it seems we're being given a very complete package of indispensable raid-buffs.

Last edited by ChaguraED : 07/18/08 at 7:31 PM.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 7:49 PM   #256
Killme888
Von Kaiser
 
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Troll Rogue
 
<FH>
Black Dragonflight
If there's a resto shaman in the raid, he'd be dropping the Flametongue Totem, especially since our totems would only be 20 yards and probably won't reach the ranged/healers on some fights.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 8:05 PM   #257
Kioe
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Magtheridon
Question

Ignore this pls.

Last edited by Kioe : 07/18/08 at 9:51 PM.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 8:10 PM   #258
Killme888
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Troll Rogue
 
<FH>
Black Dragonflight
That hasn't changed at all.. it's the same wording as it is on live.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 9:21 PM   #259
Paladia
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Stormscale (EU)
Originally Posted by Illundai View Post
* Windfury Totem is now a flat 20% melee haste totem. All ranks have been modified.
Not sure where you are getting this but it is incorrect when it comes to the actual windfury effect. Firstly it is 16% and secondly it works on range as well. See for example Windfury Totem - Spell - World of Warcraft
 
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Old 07/18/08, 9:29 PM   #260
Aezoc
Piston Honda
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Scilla
While the enhancement talents look pretty sweet, I'm concerned about threat. Unless I've missed something, our threat reduction abilities are unchanged, but BoSalv is gone and we're almost definitely going to have a higher % of total damage coming from spells in WotLK, thanks to static shock, maelstrom weapon, etc. This seems like a bad thing - fury warriors picked up a new threat reduction talent, and were already ahead of us anyways since imp. zerker affects 100% of their threat generated. I'm hoping there's something out there I just haven't seen yet.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 9:33 PM   #261
Skiace
Don Flamenco
 
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Troll Shaman
 
Dalaran
Originally Posted by Aezoc View Post
While the enhancement talents look pretty sweet, I'm concerned about threat. Unless I've missed something, our threat reduction abilities are unchanged, but BoSalv is gone and we're almost definitely going to have a higher % of total damage coming from spells in WotLK, thanks to static shock, maelstrom weapon, etc. This seems like a bad thing - fury warriors picked up a new threat reduction talent, and were already ahead of us anyways since imp. zerker affects 100% of their threat generated. I'm hoping there's something out there I just haven't seen yet.
Tank threat is getting reworked and buffed (better threat scaling) across the board.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 9:46 PM   #262
Aezoc
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Orc Death Knight
 
Scilla
Right, but the increased tank threat affects all DPS equally, no? It still seems to me that either a) -30% threat on the majority (but not all) of our damage will be enough threat reduction and the newly improved -threat talents for other classes/specs (furious resolve, elemental precision, shadowform, etc) will be basically unnecessary, or b) some higher amount of threat reduction will be needed for most encounters, and our having no active threat dump and the highest threat generation is going to bite us in the ass.

I guess there's always an outside chance that spirit wolves could have some kind of threat manipulation ability. I doubt it, but that'd be one way to make sure people take it for PvE.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 10:05 PM   #263
Illundai
Just likes to disagree.
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Originally Posted by Paladia View Post
Not sure where you are getting this but it is incorrect when it comes to the actual windfury effect. Firstly it is 16% and secondly it works on range as well. See for example Windfury Totem - Spell - World of Warcraft
That was actually straight from the beta patchnotes.
 
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Old 07/18/08, 10:07 PM   #264
vesicular
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Gorgonnash
Originally Posted by Atren View Post
Hmm, i am rather worried.

* Ghost Wolf's mana cost is now 13% base.
Why was ghost wolf form mana cost increased to 13% base mana? There is no mentioning of changes to it so it won't remove snares and is dispellable. Not to mention windfury weapon will not proc in ghost wolf form. So why?
As was mentioned above, removal of snares now exists. However, leveling another shaman now as I am, with the instant cast GW, 100 mana at lvl 20 is a lot when you're shifting in and out, off and on. Doesn't matter much to raiders, but for toons at low lvl, it will make a difference as well.
 
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Old 07/19/08, 1:04 AM   #265
ethug
Glass Joe
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Thunderhorn
Originally Posted by vesicular View Post
As was mentioned above, removal of snares now exists. However, leveling another shaman now as I am, with the instant cast GW, 100 mana at lvl 20 is a lot when you're shifting in and out, off and on. Doesn't matter much to raiders, but for toons at low lvl, it will make a difference as well.
just remember will be getting watershield at 20 now as well so that should help quite a bit with mana.

can anyone in beta confirm what spirit wolves actually do?

Last edited by ethug : 07/19/08 at 2:19 AM.
 
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Old 07/19/08, 2:52 AM   #266
Beowolf
Banned
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormreaver
Malan, does WF totem and flurry stack? If it does, then we will actually have our air totem benefit us for 20% increase in PvE damage, putting us on par with Rogues. If they dont, well, still better then nothing for those rare moments that flurry falls off.
 
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Old 07/19/08, 8:23 AM   #267
Phlis
Don Flamenco
 
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Draenei Shaman
 
Magtheridon
Originally Posted by ChaguraED View Post
With Flametongue totem now adding spell damage, will we Enhance be on the line to drop that as well for ourselves and casters? it seems we're being given a very complete package of indispensable raid-buffs.
Yes, enhancement shaman will be dropping Flametongue totem. They're the only ones who will be speccing into Enhancing Totems, which increases Flametongue Totem's spell damage increase by 15%. So they'll have the best version.

Elemental Shaman, while we may be speccing into enhancement because of Mental Dexterity + Mental Quickness, will be dropping Totem of Wrath as our Fire Totem.
 
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Old 07/19/08, 8:24 AM   #268
 Raut
Tauren Marine
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
Malan, does WF totem and flurry stack? If it does, then we will actually have our air totem benefit us for 20% increase in PvE damage, putting us on par with Rogues. If they dont, well, still better then nothing for those rare moments that flurry falls off.
20% haste != 20% more damage. And here's to hoping we don't end up at rogue DPS. That means nerfs.

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Old 07/19/08, 8:43 AM   #269
Paladia
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Stormscale (EU)
Originally Posted by Illundai View Post
That was actually straight from the beta patchnotes.
Those patch notes seems to be messed up in more than one way. For now I'll believe the in game spell rather than time lingered patch notes.
 
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Old 07/19/08, 8:46 AM   #270
Jheherrin
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Shadowsong (EU)
Given that enhancing weapon totems talent can now longer provide extra AP to WF totem, would it not be reasonable to think that the base WF totem gives 16% and the talented version gives 20% ?
 
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Old 07/19/08, 9:26 AM   #271
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
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Need someone to check the math on whether Windfury Totem is stacking properly with bloodlust.

Passive haste - 6.6%
MH weapon speed - 2.8, char sheet shows 2.63
With windfury totem (20% haste) shows 2.19
With Bloodlust + Windfury totem shows 1.68

RE Spirit Wolves: Nothing, they aren't implemented yet. Its a place holder talent right now. They summon out and just sit there.

Last edited by Malan : 07/19/08 at 9:36 AM.

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Old 07/19/08, 9:32 AM   #272
Paladia
Von Kaiser
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Stormscale (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
Need someone to check the math on whether Windfury Totem is stacking properly with bloodlust.

Passive haste - 6.6%
MH weapon speed - 2.8, char sheet shows 2.63
With windfury totem (20% haste) shows 2.19
With Bloodlust + Windfury totem shows 1.68

RE Spirit Wolves: Nothing, they aren't implemented yet. Its a place holder talent right now. They summon out and just sit there.
2.63/2.19 ~ 1.2 as in 20% haste
2.19/1.68 ~ 1.3, as in 30% haste

Seems to work fine.
 
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Old 07/19/08, 9:37 AM   #273
Malan
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Malan
Tauren Shaman
 
No WoW Account
What the hell?
Tooltip on my char sheet says that I'm getting 354 AP from Agility and I've definitely got more AP on Beta than I do on my live char with the exact same gear.
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Old 07/19/08, 9:41 AM   #274
Ulthwithian
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Mage
 
Vek'nilash
Malan: How very interesting. Giving AP to Enhancement Shaman based on Agility would fit with the homogenization of gear drops. This means that you share gear with Hunters, no?
 
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Old 07/19/08, 9:52 AM   #275
Tornaz
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
The Sha'tar (EU)
Originally Posted by Malan View Post
What the hell?
Tooltip on my char sheet says that I'm getting 354 AP from Agility and I've definitely got more AP on Beta than I do on my live char with the exact same gear.
Well, I guess that's one way to cut down on the "why does all the mail have AGI" cries.

That makes AGI worth a lot to an enhance shaman.
 
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