Is it just TSA and UR that add 10% AP to the raid?
If so, it looks like our raid viability just got a big bump.
With WF totem no longer in effect for ranged, Marksman just lost it's raid viabilty and raiding hunters are likely back to BM or SV. Obviously this remains to be seen, but in it's strong in theory.
Good news could be that we have the only raid viable spec that can bring 10% AP to the raid, moderate bad news is 5/5 UR is mandatory.
Deathknights get it too, along with a windfury-esque buff.
Death Knights can also provide the 10% AP buff to the raid using their Abomb's Might from the Blood tree. Not sure how many DK's will be spec'ing for Blood, but it's there. So no we aren't the only one's who can provide the 10% AP buff.
On the other hand, if they do finally implement dual spec to the game, I feel as though the hardcore raiders will have two raiding specs, one with UR and one without, so that you can change it as you need to based on whether or not someone else can provide the buff.
ahh, thanks... haven't really been paying much attention to the DKs offerings...
I was at blizzcon when the question was asked and they never said they would remove it. At best they gave some logic in that if they found people were duel wielding windfury and flametongue most of the time for better damage they would remove the cooldown if they thought our damage was too low and that we wouldn't go back to duel wielding windfury.
I'm the person who -asked- the damn question. The very last thing they said is that, yes, they are looking for ways to remove the cooldown. In other words, they do want to remove it. They just need to make sure it doesn't need to cause problems.
Is it just TSA and UR that add 10% AP to the raid?
If so, it looks like our raid viability just got a big bump.
With WF totem no longer in effect for ranged, Marksman just lost it's raid viabilty and raiding hunters are likely back to BM or SV. Obviously this remains to be seen, but in it's strong in theory.
Good news could be that we have the only raid viable spec that can bring 10% AP to the raid, moderate bad news is 5/5 UR is mandatory.
If your raid just brings you because you're a windfury and UR bot, you're doing something wrong regardless.
And no, Blood Deathknights will be bringing 10% AP to the raid as well.
I happen to be lucky enough to be in a guild that will have two raiding enhancement shaman in wrath. The other shaman will be providing UR, Imp. SoE, and Imp. Windfury so I have those points to spend elsewhere. What level 80 build will provide the most absolute dps as a result?
Played well, enhancement shamans offer great dps, emergency heals, stacks and stacks of buffs (5 or 6 of them) and the fastest interrupt cooldown in the game. Playing well consists of refreshing totems and shields and pressing 4 buttons in the right order according to buff and cooldown conditions.
Why wouldn't you bring one?
Andu, you're a lucky boy. I will point out only that your build assumes no mana issues, and that's something we'll need to see about once they fix ret. (By "fix," I mean "neuter.")
Last edited by Toots Hepcat : 10/22/08 at 12:56 PM.
EDIT: Andunie, might you want to delete that post before you get an infraction.
Quick Request for someone.
I went through my WWS of BT lastnight (#2 overall, right on) and concluded that my Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve (scryer) was proccing essentially every 46 seconds. I mathed it out to a 1.3PPM. On my spreadsheets, that equated to (100*10*1.3/60)=21.66 static Expertise. This plus the base stats make the pendant as good as Choker of endless nightmare, with a bonus 48 stamina.
Could I ask someone with a WWS and Shattered Sun pendant of Might what their average Scryer proc was worth in a group/raid? Preferably average damage per proc?
I'd like to see how it stacks up to the resolve one.
Could I ask someone with a WWS and Shattered Sun pendant of Might what their average Scryer proc was worth in a group/raid? Preferably average damage per proc?
I'd like to see how it stacks up to the resolve one.
The problem with that proc is it isn't translatable to static expertise like an AP proc is. When it procs, you are expertise capped for 10 seconds. During those 10 seconds all the rest of the expertise on your gear is worthless, and the other 35 seconds it's not doing anything for you. To get the maximum theoretical value of the neck you would have to have zero expertise on your gear. The more passive expertise you have, the worse it gets.
Although that's often the answer to questions posted here....neither of those procs are in the sim.
Run simulator with that neck passive stat. Run sim again with passive stat and proc value. Proc was up 10s/46s = 0.217.
Then calculate avarage dps. First run dps * 0.783 + second run dps * 0.217 = dps with that neck. Then you can compare dps versus other necs. There is no need to sim handle every proc in game when they are relevant only couple weeks. Little imaginary with sim do wonders. Long time ago Yo said that this method is most accuracy method when comparing items. Ep values are only guideline.
Run simulator with that neck passive stat. Run sim again with passive stat and proc value. Proc was up 10s/46s = 0.217.
Then calculate avarage dps. First run dps * 0.783 + second run dps * 0.217 = dps with that neck. Then you can compare dps versus other necs. There is no need to sim handle every proc in game when they are relevant only couple weeks. Little imaginary with sim do wonders. Long time ago Yo said that this method is most accuracy method when comparing items. Ep values are only guideline.
The problem with that proc is it isn't translatable to static expertise like an AP proc is. When it procs, you are expertise capped for 10 seconds. During those 10 seconds all the rest of the expertise on your gear is worthless, and the other 35 seconds it's not doing anything for you. To get the maximum theoretical value of the neck you would have to have zero expertise on your gear. The more passive expertise you have, the worse it gets.
Thank you for the advice. I ran the sim using Pitbuller's Method and established a net DPS of 2181.5. I also redid my Formula for the scryer pendant to reflect the proc's value in terms of it's contribution towards my cap. the result was 18+(66*10*1.3/60) expertise. Plugging this into the Sim resulted in 2180.6 DPS. I'm pleased with this option for showing it's static value to other necks for initial decisions.
Let's look at one weapon, 20% chance to proc, no cooldown, no crits, no misses, no bonus AP.
*snip*
There is no advantage to fast weapons with windfury, nor could there be. At best they'd be equivalent, and stormstrike/lavalash would suffer.
This is for the "if WF had no cooldown" scenario right? Wouldn't the bonus AP push the results in favor of very fast weapons if that were included? Sure, the AP might be removed if the CD were removed, but if only the CD is removed, then it looks like fast weapons win over slow for just WF damage (ignoring the other abilities, SS/LL damage obviously goes down).
Edit: Answered: AP in question scales w/ weapon speed. Thanks.
Last edited by Cloudgatherer : 10/22/08 at 3:26 PM.
This is for the "if WF had no cooldown" scenario right? Wouldn't the bonus AP push the results in favor of very fast weapons if that were included? Sure, the AP might be removed if the CD were removed, but if only the CD is removed, then it looks like fast weapons win over slow for just WF damage (ignoring the other abilities, SS/LL damage obviously goes down).
It would not. for WF Procs, the bonus AP is multiplied by weapon speed. so the 1.0speed would get (AP/14)*1 added, and the 2.0 speed would get (AP/14)*2 added.
a quick comment:
since the glyph of ES reduces its GCD by 1 second (rather than reducing it TO 0.5 seconds), if you're haste capped with the spell GCD at 1 second (which might happen with raid buffs, higher tier sets, etc. since the combination of melee and spell haste stats), wouldn't that take ES off the GCD completely?
and as i asked before, when they take the internal CD off of windfury, won't the haste plateau disappear? this might make haste a bit higher on the priority list for gear, if this is the case. of course, the glyph will have to be fixed first, and even then, its GCD might be capped at 0.5s
Wouldn't the bonus AP push the results in favor of very fast weapons if that were included?
Contrary to what Barbie says, math is not hard. I omitted this from the previous post because it seemed obvious:
Weapon1: 2 dps, 1s
Weapon2: 2 dps, 2s
Consider a hypothetical Windfury that did 1400 bonus AP, the equivalent of 100 weapon dps. This means each proc would give 2 hits as if the weapon were a 102 dps weapon.
Weapon 1 would do a proc an average of once every 5s. 2x102 damage or 204 damage. DPS = 204/5 = 40.8
Weapon 2 would do a proc an average of once every 10s. 2x204 damage or 408 damage. DPS = 408/10 = 40.8
AP, even bonus AP, scales with speed. Were there no cooldown, weapon speed would not matter for windfury. It would still matter for stormstrike and lava lash, and thus for MW. We would still want slow weapons.
Flametongue is a different issue. Flametongue's damage also scales with speed, but its coefficient is constant. That means that bonus damage scales INVERSELY with speed, going up as speed goes down.
a quick comment:
since the glyph of ES reduces its GCD by 1 second (rather than reducing it TO 0.5 seconds), if you're haste capped with the spell GCD at 1 second (which might happen with raid buffs, higher tier sets, etc. since the combination of melee and spell haste stats), wouldn't that take ES off the GCD completely?
and as i asked before, when they take the internal CD off of windfury, won't the haste plateau disappear? this might make haste a bit higher on the priority list for gear, if this is the case. of course, the glyph will have to be fixed first, and even then, its GCD might be capped at 0.5s
The Glyph is currently not working anyway so there is no way to test it.
The GCD is locked at 1 second so the Glyph only reduces it to 1 second no matter what your haste rating. The developers know about the bug though so hopefully it will be fixed soon.
I am one of those that can be considered a "window-licker" as Rounced so eloquently puts it. I recently made a macro in an attempt to maximize my DPS and was wondering if anyone could help me improve it further or point out some existing flaws in it. When Wrath comes out I will have to change it (especially with the change to glyph of flame shock) a little bit, but here is what I use so far. Again, keep in mind that a lot of the theory craft goes right over my head so perhaps I have a fundamental misunderstanding on even the order of abilities I'm using. Here goes:
I ran a couple kara's with it (I just got back into the game and power leveled on triple XP up to 70) with the Main Hand Claw from Hyjal and the Badge off-hand and welfare epics in my other slots (though I'm hit capped). Long story short I was consistently getting about 1400-1500 DPS, which I feel is very good for my level of gear. I just spammed that macro the whole time and CL'd whenever Maelstrom Weapon stacked to 5 (Shock and Awe is awesome for this). Is there a better rotation? Does anyone have any idea how that will change with an 18 second flame shock? Please help this noob out!
The Glyph is currently not working anyway so there is no way to test it.
The GCD is locked at 1 second so the Glyph only reduces it to 1 second no matter what your haste rating. The developers know about the bug though so hopefully it will be fixed soon.
yeah, i know about the bug, and i saw the blue post regarding it, but even if it can't be tested, it can still be modeled. unfortunately, i have no programming knowledge beyond QBASE, let alone C#
Yes, of course. I just made the macro a few days ago and my DPS was fine. Making it into a macro (like the ones hunters use to play the game for them) just means I can focus more on the fight around me rather than having to devote my attention to staying on a perfect rotation. I usually throw the totems right away and then begin mashing my macro. I stop mashing it once I hear the 5 stacks of MW and then I decide whether I need to save it for a heal or if I can get away with a CL. I was under the impression that WF/FT was the best setup especially after the new glyphs that are coming next patch. Is this so? Or is that not true until higher levels?
Also, when making the macro I tried to consider the cooldowns and keeping in mind that Lava Lash and the shocks have the same CD it seemed logical to do them back to back. Stormstrike would be up for my earthshock either way and there's less chance for overlap.
It's already been said quite a few times that macros are NOT the way to go. You will just be missing out on too many opportunities to maximize your DPS by using one (hence the priority and not rotation).
A question on Glyphs.
Looking at the collection of blue posts on MMO-champion.com, i noticed that the, "Glyph of Strength of Earth has been removed" (or will be in an upcoming patch). I currently am using WF and SoE glyphs at level 70 and was planning on using SS glyph when i get my third slot at 80. So, instead of having 3 glyphs that seem logical and according to all the hard work from the frequent posters that i didn't have to sim, i now get 2 good glyphs and a choice of 8% more damage to LL (so roughly 8% of 8% increace to my total DPS) or 2% spell crit while FT is active (a slightly higher ED uptime and a bit of extra damage on ES & LB).
If the blue post is accurate, what is the likely fate of the 3rd major glyph slot?
10/22/08, 11:00 AM
