Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 144

Sagus · 10/24/08, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by calebdk

Instead of castsequence i just assigned my G-keys on my logitech keyboard instead.

Made a macro which is spamming the 3 keys in a the following order (gave the highest dps for me in enhsim using this)

Earthshock
Lavalash
Stormstrike

So the first ability which comes out of cooldown will be used. A castsequence macro will lock and wait for the for the next ability to come out of CD and this will give a loss of dps.

MW5_LB still got the highest priority and iam using shockandawe to track this. When the sound pops out i just throw a LB or CL as fast as i can and after i start spaming my macro again.

So now i just have putted all my movement keys and totems over on the G-keys so iam playing with those instead of using WSDA

Doing this also breaks the ToS, so while yes this would work fine, I don't think most people would advocate doing it.

kargathia · 10/24/08, 11:08 AM

How would this break the ToS (I assume you are referring to Terms of Service) if he is using an ingame macro and spams it? The code to do this doesn't have to be macroed from his G15, it's just a simple /cast on 3 lines

Malan · 10/24/08, 11:29 AM

Can we drop this discussion of macros? Take it to the UI subforum. It's adding all of jack and shit to this discussion.

• Krish · 10/24/08, 11:36 AM

For those situations in which paying very close attention to your cooldowns is less important than giving that attention to your surroundings, I have a solution that works much better for me than a macro. I simply "chord" (think piano) my SS, ES, and LL buttons -- they're all right next to each other on my keyboard -- and then use PowerAuras and ShockAndAwe for cues to hit LB or CL. If you are spamming all three buttons, it will always use whatever comes off cooldown first. 90% of the time you can pay attention to priorities and using them in the proper order, but it makes it very easy to switch back and forth between the two methods.

Toots Hepcat · 10/24/08, 12:19 PM

A bit of anecdote:
1.
Tried a bunch of things last night at the training dummy, including two castrandoms. The second one was basically a summation of all the ideas posted yesterday:

/castrandom Stormstrike, Earth Shock, Lava Lash, Lightning Bolt
/stopcasting

- It worked surprisingly well
- Have to press the button up to four times every cooldown; difficult to tell if all abilities are on cooldown and you're just pressing it for no reason. I can't imagine hammering the thing for a ten minute fight
- No dps time is lost via the stopcasting; however, player animations do very strange things
- Less than 100 dps lost (did short tests so I can't say exactly how bad it was)
- I really don't enjoy it.
2.
While I was there, I did a little testing of WF/WF vs WF/FT. There wasn't a huge variation between the two (less than 50 dps), but WF/FT was definitely more consistent. WF/WF started out low, and raised up as I got more big MH procs (other tests might be the reverse). I took WF/FT to the raid that night and basically hung around 2000 dps on each boss fight. Counter this with last week, where I had a fight at 2200 and a second at 1700.
3.
There was an enhancer from our server's most successful Sunwell guild as well...he mentioned that after 200 million damage worth of tests, he'd chosen WF/FT and the Grip of Mannoroth over Mounting Vengeance (claiming a 20 dps increase). He was expertise capped, had around 7% passive haste and had a "second shaman" spec (3/3 S. Shock, 3/3 Imp Shields, no UR). I don't argue with empiricism -- so let me just say that I'm considering that the fast/slow question for offhands with flametongue might be unresolvable. It will depend on the weapon, the shaman and the raid.
4.
Finally: I adapted my standard LB button with a /stopcasting. I'd say I prevented myself from casting early five or six times; and about as many times I stopped myself from casting when I really wanted to (against a fleeing mob and when in the trench for Gurtogg). Allover I think it's a win if only as a "trainer" for MW -- I have a feeling in two months none of us will need it.

ChaguraED · 10/24/08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

A bit of anecdote:

3.
There was an enhancer from our server's most successful Sunwell guild as well...he mentioned that after 200 million damage worth of tests, he'd chosen WF/FT and the Grip of Mannoroth over Mounting Vengeance (claiming a 20 dps increase). He was expertise capped, had around 7% passive haste and had a "second shaman" spec (3/3 S. Shock, 3/3 Imp Shields, no UR). I don't argue with empiricism -- so let me just say that I'm considering that the fast/slow question for offhands with flametongue might be unresolvable. It will depend on the weapon, the shaman and the raid.
4.
Finally: I adapted my standard LB button with a /stopcasting. I'd say I prevented myself from casting early five or six times; and about as many times I stopped myself from casting when I really wanted to (against a fleeing mob and when in the trench for Gurtogg). Allover I think it's a win if only as a "trainer" for MW -- I have a feeling in two months none of us will need it.

I tried running my normal 2.6/2.5 set up and then tried it with 3/3SS and 3/3 Imp S., and a 1.5 OH. It came to a 91DPS upgrade. 95DPS upgrade if I stuck with the 2.5 Speed OH. Afraid I cannot bribe any hunters to spec marksman though, so I'll be stuck with UR duty till DK's are around.

For your lightning bolt issue, would adding a modifier to the macro help?

/cast [nomodifier] Lightning Bolt
/stop cast

/cast [modifier:shift] Lightning Bolt

would that let you get one off with a cast time if needed?

Staticus · 10/24/08, 1:38 PM

Just been looking at wowdb's list of wotlk gems and there's some interesting stuff...expertise gems (red/orange), some more interesting combo gems (particularly orange) and it looks like we can choose between hit (green) and expertise (purple) paired with sta or mp5 for those tricky blue sockets. And we get to choose between 21 agi or 21 crit for the 3% crit dmg meta.

Rouncer · 10/24/08, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by ChaguraED

I tried running my normal 2.6/2.5 set up and then tried it with 3/3SS and 3/3 Imp S., and a 1.5 OH. It came to a 91DPS upgrade. 95DPS upgrade if I stuck with the 2.5 Speed OH. Afraid I cannot bribe any hunters to spec marksman though, so I'll be stuck with UR duty till DK's are around.

For your lightning bolt issue, would adding a modifier to the macro help?

/cast [nomod:shift] Lightning Bolt
/stopcast [nomod:shift]
/cast Lightning Bolt

would that let you get one off with a cast time if needed?

Fixed your macro.

I think more Hunters will be willing to play MM then you realize. The dps is pretty amazing and there is less pet management involved.

KraxisSingular · 10/24/08, 2:17 PM

Originally Posted by Staticus

And we get to choose between 21 agi or 21 crit for the 3% crit dmg meta.

Well that option is there now as well. The former spellcrit gem is now crit for all. So it looks like there is a possble change there.

Eck · 10/24/08, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

A bit of anecdote:
1.
Tried a bunch of things last night at the training dummy, including two castrandoms. The second one was basically a summation of all the ideas posted yesterday:

/castrandom Stormstrike, Earth Shock, Lava Lash, Lightning Bolt
/stopcasting

Long time reader, first time poster.

As to the random macro, I'm fairly sure you can put more than one instance of an ability in it to increase the probability of it happening. My warrior buddy does this for his spamming, and I've used it too. In mine I've got more stormstrikes and earth shocks than lava lash, in case both are up when the button is pressed. And as for hitting the button for 10 minutes straight, it helps a lot to just bind it to your mouse wheel in both directions and spin it. You get the most button 'presses' in the shortest time in case the macro selects things on CD repeatedly.

-Abakus- · 10/24/08, 2:26 PM

is there any word on whether or not the orc racial Command (5% bonus pet damage) applies to Feral Spirit?
I couldn't find anything on the 3.0.2 compilation page, and i searched this thread with the search function, so i'm sorry if it has already been answered.

Darkclaw · 10/24/08, 3:31 PM

I can't seem to find or successfully build a working WF/FT imbue macro that kills the "do you want to replace" pop up we see when we don't have dual WF/WF.

Has anyone come up with one that kills the popup and cast finger, but doesn't error when you don't have the imbues yet?

This seems like a tool that could be handy if WF/FT truly becomes THE thing, as it seems to be.

Hytoshu · 10/24/08, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

A bit of anecdote:
1.
Tried a bunch of things last night at the training dummy, including two castrandoms. The second one was basically a summation of all the ideas posted yesterday:

/castrandom Stormstrike, Earth Shock, Lava Lash, Lightning Bolt
/stopcasting

- It worked surprisingly well
- Have to press the button up to four times every cooldown; difficult to tell if all abilities are on cooldown and you're just pressing it for no reason. I can't imagine hammering the thing for a ten minute fight
- No dps time is lost via the stopcasting; however, player animations do very strange things
- Less than 100 dps lost (did short tests so I can't say exactly how bad it was)
- I really don't enjoy it.
2.
While I was there, I did a little testing of WF/WF vs WF/FT. There wasn't a huge variation between the two (less than 50 dps), but WF/FT was definitely more consistent. WF/WF started out low, and raised up as I got more big MH procs (other tests might be the reverse). I took WF/FT to the raid that night and basically hung around 2000 dps on each boss fight. Counter this with last week, where I had a fight at 2200 and a second at 1700.
3.
There was an enhancer from our server's most successful Sunwell guild as well...he mentioned that after 200 million damage worth of tests, he'd chosen WF/FT and the Grip of Mannoroth over Mounting Vengeance (claiming a 20 dps increase). He was expertise capped, had around 7% passive haste and had a "second shaman" spec (3/3 S. Shock, 3/3 Imp Shields, no UR). I don't argue with empiricism -- so let me just say that I'm considering that the fast/slow question for offhands with flametongue might be unresolvable. It will depend on the weapon, the shaman and the raid.
4.
Finally: I adapted my standard LB button with a /stopcasting. I'd say I prevented myself from casting early five or six times; and about as many times I stopped myself from casting when I really wanted to (against a fleeing mob and when in the trench for Gurtogg). Allover I think it's a win if only as a "trainer" for MW -- I have a feeling in two months none of us will need it.

I did some more testing last night on the Flametongue imbue. Still showing up with a lower crit then tool tip on the level 70 mob but that just might be from a static crit suppression ( I only ever theorycrafted melee so this caster shit is weird)

When I was talking about the slow/fast windfury/flametongue most of my sources come from shaman raiding SW right now. Like you mentioned I've seen more people flop over to the fast offhand but even after running the sim it still doesn't make as much since as I would like it too. So I compiled a few other questions.

Is there a haste cap on the offhand now and if so what is it?

With the extra procs of MSW from duel WF will it cause a mana drain if we throw LB and will it be a tax on the GCD.

Does LL take in the 10% more weapon damage from WM?

Does elemental weapons scale the damage on flametongue before or after taking your spell power into account? (I think it just adds the 40% to the imbue.)

Sorry about not being interely up to date. I got out of the loop for while and dusting off is hard this semister.

Sorry · 10/24/08, 5:16 PM

Originally Posted by Darkclaw

I can't seem to find or successfully build a working WF/FT imbue macro that kills the "do you want to replace" pop up we see when we don't have dual WF/WF.

Has anyone come up with one that kills the popup and cast finger, but doesn't error when you don't have the imbues yet?

This seems like a tool that could be handy if WF/FT truly becomes THE thing, as it seems to be.

I found this on the official WoW-Forums courtesy of Lunessa (Kirin'Tor)

#showtooltip 
/script CancelItemTempEnchantment(1) 
/cast Windfury Weapon 
/use 16 
/click StaticPopup1Button1 

This will replace the main hand temporary weapon enchant. 

#showtooltip 
/script CancelItemTempEnchantment(2) 
/cast Windfury Weapon 
/use 17 
/click StaticPopup1Button1 

This will do the off-hand.

It just removes the current imbue and applies a new one. 1click cast, no popup.
Works fine for me, just change the offhand enchant to Flametongue Weapon if you're using it.

Ilmatar · 10/24/08, 5:27 PM

This also works (I bind weapon refresh to numpad3):

#showtooltip 
/castsequence reset=5 Windfury Weapon, Flametongue Weapon;
/castsequence reset=5 16, 17;
/click StaticPopup1Button1

You can use /castsequence or /castrandom on a slot #

Darkclaw · 10/24/08, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Ilmatar

This also works (I bind weapon refresh to numpad3):

#showtooltip 
/castsequence reset=5 Windfury Weapon, Flametongue Weapon;
/castsequence reset=5 16, 17;
/click StaticPopup1Button1

You can use /castsequence or /castrandom on a slot #

Ah!! that one looks promising, I was digging for something like /usesequence or some way to sequence though sets of commands but if you can use the slot numbers in /castsequence that is cool.

the /click StaticPopup1Button1 doesn't cause an error when there is no current imbue?

will have to try this when i get a chance later! Thanks

Rouncer · 10/24/08, 8:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ilmatar

This also works (I bind weapon refresh to numpad3):

#showtooltip 
/castsequence reset=5 Windfury Weapon, Flametongue Weapon;
/castsequence reset=5 16, 17;
/click StaticPopup1Button1

You can use /castsequence or /castrandom on a slot #

I apologize for the useless post but that seriously is the nicest macro I have seen yet, really nice job. No errors unless you press it too fast since if the GCD is active it will move forward on the chain but the spell won't cast due to the GCD. It corrects itself when you let the macro reset itself but did stick FT on my mainhand when I clicked it too fast. Then I just waited the 5 seconds and clicked a bit slower and it was fine.

Buffokill · 10/25/08, 12:46 AM

I'm actually starting to think about how valuable, if valuable at all, MP5 or spirit would be, not much but not nothing.

ChaguraED · 10/25/08, 2:55 AM

I believe this is a new issue, but I now have Shamanistic rage macro that is no longer working post-patch. I previously had Bloodfury (orc), a bloodlust brooch, and shamanistic rage bound together on one /cast macro. Now, the macro is not working, and I have to click it twice to get everything to go off. I can confirm the trinkets are not enacting a GCD. I don't know if Blood Fury, or Shamanistic Rage suddenly had a GCD added to it, and if it was intended.

Rouncer · 10/25/08, 3:43 AM

Blood Fury now has a GCD. Occurred when they removed the MS component so not sure if intended or not.

elms · 10/25/08, 6:29 AM

I apologize very much if this has been addressed in the thread, but I couldn't find it here or in any of the other threads on the board, searching 'heroic presence' and 'draenei racial'.

The Draenei racial, Heroic Presence, which is now a unified 1% spell and phys hit - does anyone know if it still stacks such that two Draenei in a group will get both their own and another's as it did pre 3.0? I'm having real trouble hitting my spell hit cap (well, I have a plan for it, but it involves 55 more badges than I have right now) and hoping I just might be there already, functionally. The chance of NOT being in a group with another draenei at any point in time, given my guild composition, is slim. We have draenei in tank, melee, ranged, and heals, so I can pretty much count on them.

So do I need 16% from gear+food, or 15%, before the value drops?

Jackdawg · 10/25/08, 10:03 AM

hit rating values are in Toot's 3.0 pocked guide in the think tank thread...

Shaman: Enhancement post number 8

kelben · 10/25/08, 2:49 PM

I was never under the impression it stacked at anypoint

Rouncer · 10/25/08, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by kelben

I was never under the impression it stacked at anypoint

I think the only stacking was how a casting class would have the 1% apply to spells and a melee class would have the 1% apply to melee so if grouped with a melee and a caster Draenai in the same group you would get 1% melee as well as 1% spell hit instead of just one or the other. I don't think it ever stacked higher then that 1% though no matter how many you had in that single group.

Pyros · 10/25/08, 2:53 PM

Originally Posted by kelben

I was never under the impression it stacked at anypoint

The 2 different buffs stacked. Caster draeneis(mage, priest, shaman maybe) had a spell hit buff, and melee draeneis(warrior, hunter, paladin maybe) had a melee hit buff. In early beta I believe they were still stacking depending on the original buff(so you'd actually get 2%hit from having 2 different draeneis archetypes in your group), but I somewhat remember reading in some patch notes/undocumented changes it was fixed.