Pitbuller

I just showed numbers for agility and crit rating and you just "found" some numbers that make agi lots better?
If we are posting gear list links there is mine. Only shoulder best slot item changed.
Loot Rank for Pre Woltk

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Revdarian

Remember how the simulator works?

In my case my gear has lots and i mean LOTS of haste, so for me crit and agi are way more beneficial (including the fact that i use double dragonstrike) => hence ROUGH guideline.


EDIT TO ADD AN EXPLANATION:
I took my heavy haste gear set as a base of comparison due to the new WF totem.
The extra 20% haste will matter, and if you test the simulator high lvls of haste do affect the value of your crit and hit stats positively because of the increment of white hits.

 

berg

If everyone can take a step back and emotionally detach themselves I think you will agree that the Str->Agi change is good for us long term. Short term it hurts to look at because we tried to wear as much strength as we could and now strength appears to be our worst statistic.

Long term we were never going to get well itemized strength gear and we were always going to see best in slot items rotting or going to alt spec ret because they were plate. Now we can at least pick up mail items without feeling like we just blew our chance at the leather item we really wanted.

My only worry about this is that I think this change more or less precludes 3.0 from releasing until maybe just the week or so prior to expansion. This change would absolutely destroy any enhancement shaman trying to compete in arena etc.


Some more thought on this makes me wish that strength actually had a value of 0. Strength will be so strictly inferior to Agi/AP that it really serves no purpose at all. Hopefully it will not be present on our set pieces.

 

Revdarian

It won´t be... Think rogue or hunter set pieces => that is what we will wear.

 

Stopokingme

This issue could easily be fixed by just replacing the Strength with pure AP or a mix of AP and agi. They've switched up various old gear pieces when the ret pallie change hit, shouldn't be to much of an issue to apply this to shaman tier/arena gear as well.

 

Malan

You're assuming that the Itemization team actually talks with the class mechanics guys.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Krim

About the gemming, considering the new gems Blizzard has implemented into JC as we, Enhancement Shaman, now gain 1 AP from sources of Intellect, Agility and Strength wouldn't it be in our best interests to gem using a +x agility +x intellect gem so that we still generate the same AP values, but we also increase our mana for Lava Burst, and possibly Chain Lightning, as a result of Maelstrom weapons and keeping up Elemental Devastation. I'm not entirely sure what the mana cost of Lava Burst is, guessing it's some 500~ or so, but wouldn't the rotation of using Lava Burst and possibly Chain Lightning in long boss fights could be harm on our mana? I guess this is where Hunter gear comes into play, giving us more intellect to play with.

Did I just answer my own question? O.o

 

Daer

They could just add as many agility as there is strength on the set items, e.g. 30 strength --> 30 strength, 30 agility.
If they make the change only on set pieces, it will barely cost any time, while making low tier gear useful for levelling.

 

Toots Hepcat

Agreed. I assume Bliz has a plan for this, like making all of our Bold Living Rubies into Bright ones? Though I am guessing it'll be straight-up Hit/Crit Rating gems that have the highest value now.

I think there's a very chance we'll see 3.0 prior to the release of WotLK. The servers are going to be bogged down enough as it is, having the platform running at 3.0 for a few weeks prior to release is just good sense from an IT perspective.

It also means that the classes getting dramatic revamps (Shamans, Paladins and Hunters) will have time to adjust their gear. Otherwise we'd have to put off the trip to Northrend for a few hours while we got our affairs in order, and that would be garbage.

Plus if you think for a second this thing is going to get released "on time," whatever that time may be, you haven't dealt with Blizzard very long.

 

Revdarian

You big meany!

You made me remember that after all we are shamans.... how could you!!!



@Hepcats:
Agreed, the expansion will be released *Soon(TM)*
And i would be glad for uncuts of all my gems, (all your socketed gear => unsocketed and instead getting the gems in the mail)...

 

Malan

I doubt very seriously that would happen. They might change the attributes on the set, but I seriously doubt they're going to change people's gems and enchants for them.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Toots Hepcat

You may be right...as somebody else mentioned, some kind of gem trade in would be appreciated but I wouldn't cry if it wasn't implemented. As for enchants, I believe only bracers and gloves would need to be changed, a 12 dust proposition whose cost I'll gladly eat. Being able to use my own gear (and mana pool) more effectively is a big enough deal already.

Not to mention the 20dps+ per hand buff to Mongoose.

 

panny

Amusingly enough Int is a better dps stat than Str with 5/5 AK. If only +int was on blue gems.

 

Malan

Well for gloves I fully intend to enchant +15 Expertise Rating as soon as Northrend opens, its incredibly cheap - just some of the new dust and 2 of the cosmic essences, you can get them after doing 4-5 quests.

Expertise deteriorates at 1% per level.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

berg

Malan have they released the rating curves from 70-80?

I had seen this list extracted from the FnF client but I want to hope that it is inaccurate.

Again this is unconfirmed data dont go nuts all over me.

Hit %:
70 => 15.76923
80 => 30.6287

Crit %:
70 => 22.07692
80 => 42.88018

Resilience %:
70 => 39.42308
80 => 76.57175

Haste %:
70 => 15.76923
80 => 30.6287

Expertise Skill:
70 => 3.942308
80 => 7.657175

If anyone can keep track of their ratings before and after levelling in expansion and see if these ratings hold any value it would be very useful.

Haste is probably the best one to test as we have no passive haste. According to this you would see a roughly 9% drop off in your haste value when you ding from 70->71 as the rating per % would jump to 15.76 to (roughly) 17.25.

 

Malan

I haven't seen any official word on the rating curves but I can tell you what all the 75 ratings are as soon as they unlock my alpha character.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Sprout

I did not see any posts on best in slot for gems/Enchants, so Ill post here:

For Enchants,

Head
Cenarion one is still best. Too bad Str went away or the Lower City str/int glyph would be hot.

Shoulder
The usual Aldor/Scryer inscriptions

Cloak:
Agi- no brainer

Chest:
+6 stats (Agi/int)

Hands:
Wouldnt +hit be advisable (assuming you are below the cap like most of us will be with our current gear?). It cetrainly would be cheaper than a gem

Wrist:
+4 all stats (agi,int plus sta) or srtraight +24 AP? Prolly AP.

Boots:
Agi (no change)
Cats swiftness instgead of boars speed for PVP though

Legs- Nethercobra (no change)

Shield:
Int for AP or resil (I am guessing resil because they will be used mostly in PVP)

Weapon
Mongoose for sure



Gems
I would imagine alot of gems will be swapped for + hit gems when the change occurs
+crit will also be important more than Int or Agi for obvious reasons.

 

Pitbuller

You missed point. Agi and crit still have relation on each other values.
Yuo listed(with kings)
Agi 2.51ep
Crit 2.21ep

So if those are real values then
Agi crit contribution must be 1.41 this give 1% crit 51.27ep(1.41/1.1 * 40)
Then melee crit ep value is 51.27 / 22.0.8 = 2.32
This means that spell crit ep valu must be -0.11 if you numbers are right.
So don't post numbers without math behind it.


Edit:
Right agi value from sunwell ep values is 2.28 at 2.0
Crit is harder to say but its's better than agi.

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

Skiace

It's a better dps stat than str even with no points in AK, because it gives a small amount of spell crit as well.

 

Neithan

Agi 2.51 EP?

Wasnt agi = crit ratio nerfed so its actually lower?

 

LazyJoe

Take 1.1 EP for the attack power gain, and you come with 1.41 EP regarding the crit% gained with it.

 

Rhaegal

I assume you're talking about hypothetical best enchants/gems at level 70 with 3.0 talents. I disagree on a couple things:

Hands: +Hit will not be that useful yet. We won't be speccing into Elemental Devastation (*[e] this is not true, as was pointed out to me below) until we have Lava Burst, which (I assume, but don't remember) is a skill we'll get at lvl 7x. The fact that it will affect shocks in our current rotations will be nice, sure, but not as nice as +15 agi for the AP and crit.

Wrist: I agree that straight AP will be king here. Also basically free, which is a great quality to have in an enchant.

Boots: Cat's Swiftness is already best. The extra 6 agi on +12 agi will still probably not eclipse the boost from the run speed, despite the increased usefulness of agi.

Gems: Again, I think (at 70) crit and agi will outshine +hit.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

Pronk

Just curious, but why wouldn't you spec into Elemental Devistation at level 70? (If we get 3.0) I thought the tipping point on those talent points were the change to +hit and +crit? Just eye-balling the talent tree, it looks like I'll pick up everything but 5s shocks and Maelstrom Weapons at level 70. Then from 70 to 75 scoop Maelstrom Weapons so at level 75 I have both the talent and the spell. Then from 75 - 80 get my 5s shocks back again. Am I on glue here?

 

Skippert

The new mail WOTLK BOE items (mmochampion etc.) possibly put a new twist to the critrating discussion.
Not about the question which stat will be better, but IF mail armor will contain decent critrating in the first place.
A few examples of blue level 69-76 BOE mail armor:

Horrorblood Threads 69
+29 agility
+28 stamina
Increases critrating by 25
Increases attackpower by 52

Helm of the Broken Ram 73, one without agility
+52stamina
Improves hitrating by 29
Improves critrating by 43
Increases attackpower by 92

Bracers of Accurate Fire 74
+24 agility
+30 stamina
Increases critrating by 24
Increases attackpower by 52

Girdle of Unerring Flight 76
+24 agility
+43 stamina
Increases critrating by 43
Increases attackpower by 72

When you check the leather BOE items, you see none of those have critrating but sometimes +hit, haste or armorpentr instead, while all mail BOE items just have pure critrating. Ofcourse this says almost nothing about PVP items, instance drops, craftables, badgeloot or tier sets (likely will contain intellect as well, or instead of the critrating) and it's pure speculation, but I don't think it's a coincidence that these BOE mail items basically all have agil+stam+CRIT+ap design.

 

Rhaegal

It needs some modeling to know for sure, but it seems like Elemental Devastation uptime is still going to be very low, even with the changes to +hit and +crit, unless you're stacking gear that has natural crit rating on it as well as gemming for it. Example: According to my armory, I have 3.8% spell crit currently, and 137 crit rating on my gear. If I completely ignore set bonuses and indiscriminately change all of my gems to +8 crit rating gems, I can boost that up to 214, which would bring my spell crit up to 13.5%, with still ~7% spell miss with 10% hit from gear. We'll certainly see lots more Elemental Devastation uptime, but I don't think the difference will be significant enough without Maelstrom Weapon/Lava Burst.

[e] Slight lie. If you have 10% melee hit from gear, that's ~12.5% spell hit, so only ~4.5% spell miss.

[e2] Also, I'm dumb. I still don't think crit rating will make a big enough difference on Elemental Devastation to be a significant source of EP inflation, but we will be speccing into it simply because there's nothing else good to put points in around there. Also, Earth Shock crits are only 1.5x damage and ~1.25x for Flame Shock, which also diminishes the spell crit contribution to EP.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!