Sprout, the beta is very new, and perhaps the tooltips for those items simply haven't been updated yet. It may not seem it, but this is a more labor intensive process than merely changing the mechanics and it's not something you want to do twice if the mechanics haven't been fleshed out yet. Expect tooltips to change gradually over time.

Blizzard has said they are combining passive melee, ranged and spell hit, crit and haste ratings. All evidence from folks in the beta seems to show this is the case. I do not expect them to combine the values from all on-procs or talents.

I did not mean reset, I mean it's like parry where it causes melee hits to happen before the swing timer is up.

Test it out, go auto attack something, warstomp, then wait for your next melee swing. Your next melee should happen 2s later.

Then autoattack, warstomp, and SS right afterwards. Your next melee swings will happen immediately. (Unless the combat log is just wrong.)

good poiont except they have done the changes to SOME extent already, spell power and crit. But you are probably right they just have not gotten to it yet. Was looking for feedback from beta testers in that regard though to see if they are seeing things which are not published yet.

The casting system has been changed as well, there no longer seems to be a 1% chance to miss with spells no matter what your hit rating. There is also some evidence that they have reduced the amount of "spell" hit % required to hit raid bosses but that will require more testing to confirm.



I believe it is the complete opposite. The beta is more up to date then the Blizzard web site. Originally they were planning on having Maelstrom Weapon affect all spells (at least thats what Blue told us on the Alpha forums) but it was changed prior to Beta to only affect our damage spells and the web site seems to just be slow to catch up.

(although I wish it would affect our heals for PvP purposes).

Lava burst will eat a fire shock dot and have a 100% chance to critically hit.
Malan (or any shaman in the beta), could you please verify (when you'll be able to purchase the spell) if it eats our own shock or any shock applied to the target?

My thought is that if another shaman eats our shocks, this could lower the interest of the new enhancer cycle.

(I hope I wrote understandable english)

You still could give two flame shock in 10s window. Then elemental shaman could stay max range their cycle is 10-12s long.(8s cd + 2s cast. Enhance just could stick 10s cycle too and you trade couple flame shock dot tick for raid benefit.

I did a quick search.. but it didn't turn up an answer to my question. Since blizzard has changed us to 1 AP per str/agi/(int with talent) has return of crit from AGI shifted to that of say rogues? in live we see the same crit per agi as warriors (since we share the 2ap from str aspect) where as rogues 1/1 see roughly 1crit per 40agi. obviously at 80 this will skew even more..

Page 14.
Berg (I think) asked about rating curves -
WoW Forums -> Combat Ratings from 70 to 80

Then you fail at search. Try the back button. From two pages ago:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27014-e...13/#post819134

Followed by:

In live we got better agi to crit than warriors actually. 25 opposed to 33 or so of warriors.

I cant say for sure until I see the costs for crit rating vs agi, but as multiple people have stated, crit rating will probably be better than AGI simply becuase of the additional synergies with melee/spell crit (flurry, malestrom, elemental devestation, elemental focus)

speaking of synergies, do any other classes have on crit/on spell crit synergies we could take advantage of?

Looking at his post it looks like the ratings I posted are accurate, and depressing.

Some mail pieces will have hit, but you will likely be able to pick up all that you need from rings, necklaces, cloaks, weapons, trinkets (/giggle @ Romulo's Poison Vial), enchants and gems. We will also want the intellect on hunter gear for increased spell crit and larger mana pools to offset the lack of water shield and the higher cost of totems and maelstrom spells. The best gear will almost definitely be the hunter pieces that do not have any Mp/5 on them as that particular stat still seems to be worthless. All subject to change, of course.

I respectfully disagree; but like you said, we'll have to wait and see. Elemental focus should take care of the cost of the instant-cast LB, CL and lava burst spells, and SR is sufficient to recharge our mana pool when it's drained. I'm not focusing so much on what stats are present on rogue loot vs. hunter loot, as I'm putting forward the thought that 1 agi > 1 int and so when you're looking at itemization, rogue gear will tend to be more valuable to us, even with all the changes.

The main limitation I see for Int is that all of our mana-using spells are still on cooldowns: shocks (5->6 sec), lava burst (8 sec), chain lightning (6 sec). In addition, lava burst, chain lightning, and lightning bolt are all dependent on how quickly you can get 5 crits to make them instant cast.

The main synergy we have with spell crit is Elemental Devastation (10 sec duration). So for our purposes, we want to get a spell crit at least once every 10 sec. We can most reliably obtain this with a flame shock>lava burst crit (assuming we max out our hit). But other than that, spell crit is not as useful as melee hit, which is why I say that Agi > Int.

Again, we'll really just have to wait and see for when the game comes out and all the math is redone, but my point is that all the changes so far have not been sufficient to make rogue leather less useful than hunter mail.

Who cares?

The changes at the very least make our itemization needs much more in line with Hunter itemization which is Blizzard's intention. Does it really matter if there will be leather pieces that are better for us then the mail equivalents? Look at the Felmyst legs, they are Best In Slot for Rogues, Enhancement Shaman, Fury Warriors, Hunters and Feral Druids. There will always be pieces like that and it doesn't matter. Stats are stats and some items will always be better then others. The great thing about the change is that no longer will we (enh shaman) be crying about the lack of gear itemized specifically for us since all "Hunter" mail pieces will basically be designed with us in mind.

Only issue I have with the changes is that Blizzard really needs to fix some of our current gear when those changes go live. They need to change all current Linked PvP pieces to Chain and they need to make a reitemization pass at all of our Tiered and Season enhancement set pieces to fix all the strength that is stacked on them.

Has anyone with beta forum access gone ahead and made a few bug report/general posts about Maelstrom resetting the swing timer yet? Seems like something we'd want to get nipped in the bud.

Once we get above 30% crit, int will be better than agility, as we get 10% bonus from both talents AND kings.

Which totems are party only and which totems effect the entire raid? Are any totems restricted to group only?

We know that Windfury, Strength of Earth, Wrath of Air are supposed to effect the raid. How about the rest: mana tide, poison/disease cleansing, flametongue, totem of wrath, tremor and grounding totem? I have to think that some of those totems would be very powerful if they were raid wide, so it probably won't happen. Has there been any comment on this by Blizzard?

Let's see... assuming there is a +10% int talent and you take it...
22.08 crit rating = 1% Crit
10 Agility * 1.1(BoK) = 11 Agility = 11 AP and 0.275 Crit = 11 AP and 6.072 Crit Rating
11 Intellect * 1.1(BoK) * 1.1(talent) = 12.1 Intellect = 12.1 AP and 181.5 Mana

I don't think that 1.1 AP and 181.5 Mana will in any possible situation be better than 6.072 Crit Rating.

SoE is note affecting outside the group right now. Neither does Tremor, Mana Spring, Mana Tide, Healing Stream, or Grounding.

No we just ignore bugs.

IN TBC, when you get too much crit its weight is lowered the higher it gets. Thats why we end up favoring STR for pure AP over crit end game, as 30% is enough crit to keep UR and Flurry up for a reasonable % of time. In WotLK, nothing will change from a crit perspective, meaning we will reach a point where we want to start stacking pure ap over crit. Int, which gives us 20% more due to talents and spells, seems the obvious choice.

While I do agree that on the level agil seems like a better choice, it may not be so the more crit we gain. Not only that, but INT ALSO gives us spell crit rating...and we could conceivably see 30-40% of our damage coming from spells in the expac!! Yo's simulator can answer this question, but in the meantime, do explain why this will not be the case come WotLK. I'm all ears.

When it comes to stacking AP, i think Intellect isnt the obvious choice. AP is.