Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 252

Toots Hepcat · 11/12/08, 1:18 PM

/facepalm

Swapping weapons trips a GCD and resets the swing timer. Swapping weapons twice is 3s of lost dps time from all cycles, probably more time lost from autoattack cycles including FT and Windfury.

So yeah, it is a completely useless suggestion.

Giant · 11/12/08, 3:05 PM

Forgive the question, but am i right in thinking if we are nearing the 450 required hit rating as Enhancement, the 3 talent points in Duel wield spec will become pointless and can be used elsewhere, ie static shock?

Rouncer · 11/12/08, 3:47 PM

Originally Posted by Giant

Forgive the question, but am i right in thinking if we are nearing the 450 required hit rating as Enhancement, the 3 talent points in Duel wield spec will become pointless and can be used elsewhere, ie static shock?

It's 364 hit not 450. We get 3% hit from raid buffs and spell hit is 26.23 per 1% while melee is 32.79 per 1%.

So that means the 14% spell hit equals 11.1% melee hit.

At 364 hit rating three point in Duel Wield spec is worth ~135dps, 3 points in Static Shock is worth ~150dps and 3 points in reverberation is worth ~190dps. So I guess if you are forced to spec into unleashed rage it makes sense to do something like this.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...35331131231051

But if you have a MM hunter or a Blood DK present you should stick to something like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...30331131231051

Shifting the 1 point in Elemental Focus to Reverberation if you have no mana issues whatsoever (which I doubt will happen so I think Elemental Focus will be a necessity).

frozndevl · 11/12/08, 4:30 PM

Again, welcome back to Yo! and thanks for the information. Also, since Toots just let us know he has been working on a Rawr model for us, are you going to be updating your simulator for wotlk? Having a java based alternative to tukez' sim would be a great benefit to the community.

Glodd · 11/12/08, 11:18 PM

If my shaman has two weapons with differing damage ranges, should the one with the higher damage range go in the main hand or the off hand now?

I ask because of Lava Lash.

Toots Hepcat · 11/13/08, 10:28 AM

Damage range is just meaningless.

All that really matters is speed. Remember: at this point you will have two to three times more total DPS from AP than you'll get from your weapon DPS. You'll get more dps (from SS and WF) out of each point of AP with a slow weapon, even if your slow weapon is lower quality than a faster one.

Slow is good for LL as well, but not AS good as it is for Stormstrike or Windfury.

In short, with two weapons:

- Use the slower one in the main hand, even if it's lower DPS.

- If they're the same speed, use the one with higher DPS in the main hand.

Skiace · 11/13/08, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

Just so you guys don't hear any vicious rumors, I threw together an Enhancement module for Rawr. Should be in the next version.

Consider it a proof of concept and little else...it's only got about 10 hours of coding behind it, but a year's worth of research. Eventual goal is to have a fast way to compare gear and optimize things like meta gems and hit and expertise caps. The current version omits a lot of useful analysis data, doesn't work for weapon comparisons (doh!) and seems to be giving me weird values for hit rating (too low) and armor pen (too high).

As you may know, Rawr! uses a flat model for comparisons. This makes it less accurate than the simulator and a poor tool for theorycrafting. However, eventually it should be a great tool for the end user -- a flat model means that rawr can make hundreds of gear comparisons in a minute and tell you which is best.

Current version:
- Doesn't model the GCD
- *Does* attempt to model "feedback" between WF,ED, MW & Flurry
- Only models WF/FT
- Only models the "average" speed of WF...a Bayesian model of WF at each potential speed, weighted with the chance of achieving that speed, would be more accurate w/r to weapon speed modeling.
- Uses all L70 equations (the rest of Rawr is gone to L80 already)

I am not really interested in hearing how it doesn't always line up with the other theorycrafting tools of the moment -- I understand this and am working on it. I am sort of interested in knowing what sort of information you think might be useful from such a tool. Things I've been considering are:
- Display of average weapon speeds
- ED, Flurry and UR uptime readouts
- MW and WF time-to-proc
- Breakdown of total DPS into spell and melee dps, so you can see how much benefit to each class of damage you get from a piece of gear
- Breakdown of each component of DPS in a chart

Could you possibly post the dll somewhere for the short term? It somehow was omitted from the download pack and I'd be interested in poking around with it.

Endus · 11/14/08, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Talaus-Mok'Nathal

I still don't see how engineering, leatherworking, etc matches up to blacksmithing. Two extra gem sockets is 64 AP, or 32 Crit/Agi/Hit just using rare gems, with epics it's 80 AP or 40 Crit/Agi/Hit. Because they're just sockets, you can gem them however you want, so if you're not hit capped, you get 2 extra hit gems, or crit gems, or whatever. The only other profession with that much customizability is JC. Versus rare gems, JCs get an extra 66 AP or 33 Crit/Agi/Hit, but as soon as epics are re-introduced it drops to only gaining you 44 AP or 21 Crit/Agi/Hit.

Blizzard keeps repeating that they won't put out great BoP recipes, so while you could use LW as a way to get decent pre-Naxx gear, it becomes worthless for anything afterwards except the cheaper leg enchants and the fur linings (which offer 64 AP over the regular enchants).

First time poster, long-time lurker. Hopefully I've picked up enough to not make a complete tard of myself here.

Also consider Alchemy. Mixology is both a double duration on elixirs, AND +50% effect on flasks, +25% on elixirs. So the new AP flask, which is +180 AP, will give Alchemists an extra 90 AP, and last four hours. It's not immediately obvious from the tooltip, since it just says "increased effect" and the mouseover of the buff still lists the base flask buff amount, but check your actual stats.

That's slightly more than you're suggesting I could get from Blacksmithing. I'm not gonna say BS is bad; it's more customizeable in terms of the specific bonuses you can get, and there's other items you can get through it that could help. BS also will work when soloing and not using flasks, of course, too. However, Alchemy seems to have a higher put-out if you're just concerned with getting the most itemization points from the profession, above and beyond any crafted items you can equip. It's at least a good competitor.

Malan · 11/14/08, 5:51 PM

[e] oops