I picked this out because I know it's come up a couple times now, and I know Malan posted about it on the beta forums.
The tooltip says "when you critically hit with a melee weapon". Couldn't their intention be the same as with [Darkmoon Card: Crusade], in that "non-ability" attacks are the only ones that stack the buff?
Just a thought.
except that ss, wf, and white hits all stack the buff.
except that ss, wf, and white hits all stack the buff.
No it does not. I observed over the course of an hour that WF crits were not stacking the buff.
We need 2 things to happen in this thread.
1. If you aren't in beta, stop acting like you are an authority on how things work in the beta
2. If you are in the beta, don't talk about things you haven't personally tested.
I don't think it would be worth it for a healer to spend the points in the Enhancement tree to get Dual Wield just to increase their proc rate of earthliving weapon (but I don't raid heal so I can't say that with any certainty).
It is a pretty nice HoT, with my 614 spell damage it was healing for 155 a second when active and the base heal on it is 30 a second.
No it does not. I observed over the course of an hour that WF crits were not stacking the buff.
Is there talk of this being a bug? If not, I'm curious if going with a faster weapon would affect all of this. It would affect our WF and SS dmg, but would probably allow getting in an instant cast much more often than otherwise, given it would only proc off white attacks. I wonder if there's going to be some happy medium where slowest weapon doesn't automatically equal highest dps because of it. I'm going to assume not, but it would be an interesting change if that were the case.
I don't think it would be worth it for a healer to spend the points in the Enhancement tree to get Dual Wield just to increase their proc rate of earthliving weapon (but I don't raid heal so I can't say that with any certainty).
It is a pretty nice HoT, with my 614 spell damage it was healing for 155 a second when active and the base heal on it is 30 a second.
Could you run a test with it just on the OH? With MW back to including heals on the current test version (correct me if I'm wrong), it's possible that a combat support shaman could frequently be called on for emergency or encounter phase healing. In this way, MW is a different application o the 2-piece T5 set bonus, and depending on circumstances and proc chance, it is potentially worthwhile (and either way, it's data worth knowing).
Based upon your numbers above, I expect the OH to show roughly 10% proc rate.
Also, if you have time, do two sets of tests - one with no MH weapon enhancement, and one with something non-healing related.
Why the heck are we concerned with testing DW healing imbued?
To find out what the exact effects are.
Part of the raid utility of an enhancement Shaman has always been their ability to cover random splash damage which hits the DPS group they are in, or to kick back and throw heals in emergencies or during certain phases on boss fights. It's not like bliz surgically remove your ability to cast LHW the instant you talent for Dual-wield. Like Toots Hepcat said a few pages ago, you're playing Shaman, regardless of talent spec, you still have all the general Shaman abilites to consider and use.
We need to know what the numbers concerning DW ELW are before we can know in what circumstances (if any) it might be worth using. Even if it turns out that it's never useful, that's still information worth knowing.
The best way to handle offhealing would be to imbue two other weapons and use a weapon switch macro when it's time to heal. If your tank is going to die without the extra little hot on an emergency heal, then I don't think you should be waiting for malestrom to get its 5 stack. It would be interesting to see if it's better to switch to a healing shield instead of another weapon.
The best way to handle offhealing would be to imbue two other weapons and use a weapon switch macro when it's time to heal. If your tank is going to die without the extra little hot on an emergency heal, then I don't think you should be waiting for malestrom to get its 5 stack. It would be interesting to see if it's better to switch to a healing shield instead of another weapon.
Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but if the Tank is gonna die unless the Enhancement Shaman throws an emergency heal on him, then there's more problems than worrying about weapon enchants.
Enhancement Shaman should never be involved in mission-critical healing. Throwing an occasional Chain Heal on the melee group who are slowly losing health to a constant effect? Sure. Main Tank? Sorry, that's the healing team's department. And while saving the Main Tank's life might be a noble effort, all you are doing is covering up bad performance by other people, and killing your own performance in the meantime.
I agree that this is not at all a useful topic for raiding. However, some of us heal 5-mans and heroics in resto gear but don't bother to respec, and it'd be interesting to know if it's worth DWing a second weapon for the second weapon imbue, or just tossing on a shield.
Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but if the Tank is gonna die unless the Enhancement Shaman throws an emergency heal on him, then there's more problems than worrying about weapon enchants.
Enhancement Shaman should never be involved in mission-critical healing. Throwing an occasional Chain Heal on the melee group who are slowly losing health to a constant effect? Sure. Main Tank? Sorry, that's the healing team's department. And while saving the Main Tank's life might be a noble effort, all you are doing is covering up bad performance by other people, and killing your own performance in the meantime.
If me do gud deeps means dead tank, then I'm not really helping anyone. There's a lot of randomness in WoW. A raid could have alternate healers, healers can get graved/silenced/sacraficed, tank could take a series of crushing blows, etc. A lot of bad things can happen and the healers can't always cover if they're pusing new content. I'm not going to tell the healers that have been going with us since Karazhan that they suck and I shouldn't have to cover for them.
Seriously, what do you do if you're running two-healer ZA and one goes down or they both get sienced? Do you let the tank die and say "Sorry guys, my 6000 damage was more important than the chests?"
You tell the healer or tank to do their job properly and take this stupid line of discussion to a resto thread. Because ZA is terribly relevant to WLK at 80 right?
You tell the healer or tank to do their job properly and take this stupid line of discussion to a resto thread. Because ZA is terribly relevant to WLK at 80 right?
While in general I agree that the standard specialized specs are the best way to setup a raid, it is by no means the ONLY way to setup a raid. Having the ability to insta heal if needed is a very nice little plus for Enh, even if you rarely do it in 25 mans. Anything that increases utility is a plus to a group or raid. Just because it is not min/max optimal does not mean it is not useful. Being situationally useful is good mmmmkay?
FYI, I'm more concerned about our DPS and raid benefits to enhancement. Not whether or not offhealing is smart or needed by us. Can we get back to this, please?
On that note: I haven't even thought to ask yet, as I don't see it yet in the thread - Can anyone confirm if Elemental Focus and Shamanistic Focus are a stacking buff (That is 100% reduction on Shocks) or a multiplicative bonus (That is, 1.00 * 0.40 * 0.60 or 76% reduction on shocks)? That would be nice to find out. Right now, I don't have the option of testing, as I have other things to address at this moment, but if noone can or cares to, I will later on. It'll prove to be nice to figure out some maths on how much savings picking up Elemental Focus is worth, along with how much an average two minutes would run with and without Convection.
I agree that this is not at all a useful topic for raiding. However, some of us heal 5-mans and heroics in resto gear but don't bother to respec, and it'd be interesting to know if it's worth DWing a second weapon for the second weapon imbue, or just tossing on a shield.
Precisely what I was thinking, as I used to do that when I was levelling (and still do occasionally). I prefer DW anyway for the extra +heal enchant (even since the nerfing of all the 1H caster/healer weapons), but with the new stuff coming in wotlk it's going to be a lot better IMO. (as it will be for spot heals in all raids and instances)
Looking back at all my Kara runs it has been painfully obvious that most of the time when we were less well geared, three healers were not exactly required, yet two healers were too few for the later content. Hence a need to roll with three healers.
In such situatuations an Enhancement Shaman gimping his/her DPS a bit to throw out instant heals now and then would have been great. Then it would have been possible to run with two healers perhaps. And even a 70% DPS Enhancement Shaman is better than a full healer at DPS.
Imo, I'm not interested in reading about this at all in this thread. If you want to discuss shaman healing potential, the Resto WotLK discussion is that way --->
Now what I would be interested to hear is how the mana reduction is working, additive, multiplicative, some mix of it?
FYI, I'm more concerned about our DPS and raid benefits to enhancement. Not whether or not offhealing is smart or needed by us. Can we get back to this, please?
On that note: I haven't even thought to ask yet, as I don't see it yet in the thread - Can anyone confirm if Elemental Focus and Shamanistic Focus are a stacking buff (That is 100% reduction on Shocks) or a multiplicative bonus (That is, 1.00 * 0.40 * 0.60 or 76% reduction on shocks)? That would be nice to find out. Right now, I don't have the option of testing, as I have other things to address at this moment, but if noone can or cares to, I will later on. It'll prove to be nice to figure out some maths on how much savings picking up Elemental Focus is worth, along with how much an average two minutes would run with and without Convection.
Another though about outr DPS is weapon speed.
If the damage done by our spells via Maelstrom is getting bigger, it could be possible, that fast weapons are more effectiv.
Today the split is:
10% SS
30% WF
10-15% Shocks
45-50% white dmg
If this chances to a 20% dmg from Maelstrom, then fast weapons might be more effectiv.
Lets say I use 2x 1,3sec Daggers, then I would generate the double amount of Maelstromprocs. SS-dmg would go half itself, WF would go down, but not halving itwelf. Static Shock dmg would double as well.
Aonther though is, that casting LB instead of Lava burst might be better, since it has a better coefficient and doesn't consume our Firedot from Flameshock. This is specially important, since I doubt that you can time Lava Burst so that it eats only the last tick of the dot, without losing Maelstromprocs through waiting.
Aonther though is, that casting LB instead of Lava burst might be better, since it has a better coefficient and doesn't consume our Firedot from Flameshock. This is specially important, since I doubt that you can time Lava Burst so that it eats only the last tick of the dot, without losing Maelstromprocs through waiting.
The whole point in using LaB is to get a crit so you can get the additional crit from elemental devastation (which will give you even more maelstroms).
If this chances to a 20% dmg from Maelstrom, then fast weapons might be more effectiv.
Lets say I use 2x 1,3sec Daggers, then I would generate the double amount of Maelstromprocs. SS-dmg would go half itself, WF would go down, but not halving itwelf. Static Shock dmg would double as well.
Aonther though is, that casting LB instead of Lava burst might be better, since it has a better coefficient and doesn't consume our Firedot from Flameshock. This is specially important, since I doubt that you can time Lava Burst so that it eats only the last tick of the dot, without losing Maelstromprocs through waiting.
There's a lot of misconceptions there. First, while yes, you would generate a five-stack of Maelstrom faster, it wouldn't necessarily be twice as fast, if SS/WF crits end up proccing Maelstrom when the final mechanics are ironed out. Secondly, there's an 8 second CD on Lava Burst, so there's not really any reason to want to generate a five-stack faster than that. That is, unless you start using it to cast Lightning Bolts between Lava Bursts, but then you'll be letting Elemental Devastation fall off. Also not a good idea. And for your last point, remember--the whole point of this is to auto-crit a Lava Burst to proc Elemental Devastation for the extra melee crit. We will not be using Maelstrom to cast Lightning Bolt.
People have been trying to come up with a way to justify using fast weapons as an enhancement shaman, and it got old about a year and a half ago. We do not use fast weapons, we will not be using fast weapons in WotLK as talents and abilities currently stand, any more than we'll be using anything other than Windfury as a self-imbue. Just stop trying.
The whole point in using LaB is to get a crit so you can get the additional crit from elemental devastation (which will give you even more maelstroms).
I think testthewest was suggesting that should fast weapons be a viable alternative, maelstrom stacks would build faster than the needed LvB crit cycle, thus extra stacks might be consumed with LB instead.
Edit: In response to Rhaegal, I agree that we will likely be looking at slow weapons as the best choice in the end, but I disagree with your reasoning. Regarding the dps breakdown testthewest mentioned, slow weapons tip the scale towards our melee abilities (white/wf/ss) and fast would increase the share of spell damage. Even though we get some spell damage scaling from our melee gear, increasing the share of melee damage will always scale better, because our melee stats scale much better than the spell damage we get through talents.
07/26/08, 1:00 AM
