Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 32

Sprout · 07/31/08, 12:36 PM

Question:

The 2 remaining tier 1 points seem kind of wasted regardless of which talents you pick. AK would be 400 mana with 10k , hardly exciting. Earths grasp is not a huge deal either although 20% extra radius is ~70% more area covered, which might be nice in fights like helmyst , TG, etc with lots of little adds. Very situational though.

thoughs?

Weev · 07/31/08, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by ChaguraED

It looks from the Log that Static Shock was proccing off of reactionary Lightning Shield Procs.

I did not see any procs off of static shock charges though. (either chain procs of 3 lightning shield orbs in a row, or 2 orbs from offensive melee or casts)

It looks like you didn't attack back for the first 4 minutes though, and there's only ~1 minute of autoattack, so it's not a large testbed.

Of course, 6% * 6% is 0.36% chance of seeing static shock proc off itself if it IS possible. We'll jsut need some longer testing with offensive spells/melee.

thats what i meant by LS proccing off itself. I've yet to see a triple proc and probably wont be able to test again until tomorrow.

Slacke · 07/31/08, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by Weev

thats what i meant by LS proccing off itself. I've yet to see a triple proc and probably wont be able to test again until tomorrow.

We all appreciate that you've spent time testing this but please get your terms straight to clear up the confusion as to what you actually mean.
Ie the difference between static shock procing and LS, you've so far, in different posts, said that both of them proc from themselves.

What i would assume you mean is that static shock can proc when LS does damage from you getting hit.
But when you say it procs of itself it sounds like static first procs from you doing some kind of damage and then has a chance to proc again from the damage that static proc just did and so on in finitum.

If it really is the later version that you mean you could please also correct my assumption here... =)

Rhaegal · 07/31/08, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sprout

Question:

The 2 remaining tier 1 points seem kind of wasted regardless of which talents you pick. AK would be 400 mana with 10k , hardly exciting. Earths grasp is not a huge deal either although 20% extra radius is ~70% more area covered, which might be nice in fights like helmyst , TG, etc with lots of little adds. Very situational though.

thoughs?

My thoughts are that I'm just happy to have three not-useless points to spend in the first tier. For leveling I'll probably pick up Earths Grasp for the extra Stoneclaw health so I can be that much more reckless while questing, but my final raid build will most likely have 2 points in AK for the extra 10 AP or so, unless there's more encounters like Razorgore or, uh, that one Naxx fight that I can't recall, where Earthbind is full of win.

Malan · 07/31/08, 2:11 PM

[quote=Sprout;835737 AK would be 400 mana with 10k , hardly exciting. [/QUOTE]

No, Ancestral Knowledge is 10% Intellect now not mana. That means your Int -> AP rate becomes 1 -> 1.1 on your gear.

dedmonwakeen · 07/31/08, 2:37 PM

SimulationCraft has been updated with Whitetooth's RatingsBuster analysis.
This has brought the Enhancement Shaman back in line (from a dps perspective) with the other classes I've implemented.

Skiace · 07/31/08, 3:44 PM

This is purely speculative, but the wording on Dual Wield Specialization - Spell - World of Warcraft has me wondering if it may be intended to give 6% spell hit as well as melee hit. I realize that the wording hasn't changed from the current live version, but it's worded more like the paladin one-handed spec ( One-Handed Weapon Specialization - Spell - World of Warcraft) than the warrior +hit talent (Precision - Spell - World of Warcraft) or the rogue hit talent (Precision - Spell - World of Warcraft) which both explicitly mention "hit with melee weapons". It also doesn't have the melee weapon requirements on it that the warrior and rogue talents have. It would make sense from a gearing perspective to have equivalent melee/spell hit from deep enhance talents if we are expecting to have to cap spell hit. Am I off the deep end with this one?

Malan · 07/31/08, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

This is purely speculative, but the wording on Dual Wield Specialization - Spell - World of Warcraft has me wondering if it may be intended to give 6% spell hit as well as melee hit.

Its not. I've got the same level of spell hit as I do melee hit from gear. (~10% at 70)

Skiace · 07/31/08, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Its not. I've got the same level of spell hit as I do melee hit from gear. (~10% at 70)

Does spell hit from talents normally show up on the paper doll? Considering that melee hit from talents doesn't, it could still be there. Unless you meant that you'd done some combat log testing to check your spell hit and it came out around 10%.

Malan · 07/31/08, 4:25 PM

Well I suppose so, I guess I could test by stripping off all my +hit gear. I'll try that when I get home.

Skiace · 07/31/08, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Well I suppose so, I guess I could test by stripping off all my +hit gear. I'll try that when I get home.

My guess is that it doesn't give spell hit, but after noticing the wording and considering the direction the spec is headed, it made me wonder if maybe it should give spell hit.

• frmorrison · 07/31/08, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

Does spell hit from talents normally show up on the paper doll? Considering that melee hit from talents doesn't, it could still be there. Unless you meant that you'd done some combat log testing to check your spell hit and it came out around 10%.

You are right, hit talents do not show on the paper doll, at least in Live.

You should be able to check out the wotlk wowhead site to see if it adds both types of hit. For example, the Holy Paladin talent Enlightened Judgement spell information says it adds both melee and spell hit, which is important since a Paladin needs both types of hit, and a healer is not going to have much hit rating on gear.

Skiace · 07/31/08, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by frmorrison

You are right, hit talents do not show on the paper doll, at least in Live.

You should be able to check out the wotlk wowhead site to see if it adds both types of hit. For example, the Holy Paladin talent Enlightened Judgement spell information says it adds both melee and spell hit, which is important since a Paladin needs both types of hit, and a healer is not going to have much hit rating on gear.

this is what it says on wowhead:

[Apply Aura]: Mod Hit Chance
Value: 6

which is the same as warrior and rogue talents.

Staticus · 07/31/08, 4:41 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

To use vanilla WoW to TBC item differentials, Kel'Thuzad loot was ever-so-slightly better than level 70 dungeon blues. If the difference is reasonably consistent, or even increased slightly, we should be looking at one-hand blues at level 80 being ~112-120 DPS, and the first tier of epics at ~135-140 DPS. Not 200. Those 4k DPS values are very bloated.

From the clips already posted on mmo champion etc. it looks like the badge fists are going to be beaten by blues (in terms of base dps) at around lvl 74-ish...so blues being 110-120-ish at lvl 80 sound about right.

Smithist · 07/31/08, 4:45 PM

The wording is the same on Live and the wrath wowhead link lacks the [Apply Aura]: Mod Spell Hit Chance, so there's almost no way it does currently. Six percent for spell and melee would be almost too good, and it'd probably be lowered to 3 or something if it was changed to affect both.

Weev · 07/31/08, 5:03 PM

Looks like 2.9 speed weapons are returning - i picked up one today from a quest in Tuskar 84 dps. This is much slower than we've seen in all on BC.

Malan · 07/31/08, 5:35 PM

I just checked in the beta - removed all my hit gear (Hit rating shows 0) and have the DW Spec talent. Against lvl 70 mobs (I'm 71) I'm not missing any spells at all out of around 50 cast so far.

Oh and good news for the pvp front - not sure if this is intended or not, but I just got jumped by a rogue and...

16:38:50> [Coldsun] Hemorrhage hit [You] 2027 Physical. (Critical)
116:38:51> [You] gained Maelstrom Weapon.
16:38:52> [Coldsun] Melee hit [You] 1332 Physical. (Critical)
16:38:52> [Your] refreshed Maelstrom Weapon.
16:38:53> Maelstrom Weapon stacked [You] 2.
16:38:53> [Coldsun] Melee hit [You] 460 Physical. (Critical)
16:38:54> Maelstrom Weapon stacked [You] 3.

I didn't hit him a single time, he stacked Maelstrom to 3 stacks on me before I died.

spanko · 07/31/08, 5:55 PM

I hope that is intended, that would make Maelstrom Weapon amazing for pvp, it would also make our pvp mana pool very relevant and important.

Malan · 07/31/08, 6:23 PM

Its probably not intended since the tooltip reads "When you critically hit with a weapon...."

Rhaegal · 07/31/08, 6:23 PM

From the elemental thread:

Originally Posted by tufy

After 1000 Lightning Bolts fired at level 73 mobs around Dragonblight (do you have ANY idea how hard it is to find them?), I've come to a result of 15.3% miss rate, which is consistent to expected Live values for a level 70 Draenei shaman without hit gear or talents. We can safely abandon the 9% rumour.

With that in mind, perhaps DW Spec providing spell hit is intended, and it will still be an important talent for us. 11% spell miss rate against mobs 3 levels higher would be reasonable to come up with, but 17% would be a stretch if we're sharing hunter gear.

Hothgor · 07/31/08, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

From the elemental thread:

With that in mind, perhaps DW Spec providing spell hit is intended, and it will still be an important talent for us. 11% spell miss rate against mobs 3 levels higher would be reasonable to come up with, but 17% would be a stretch if we're sharing hunter gear.

I believe you mean to say that the WoWHead WotLK DWS DOESN'T provide spell hit.

If DW Specialization doesn't apply to spell hit, AND it still takes 16% hit rating to spell hit cap, that's all the more reason why placing points in it could be considered wasted. Presumably spell hit will be desirable enough we would gear up enough hit rating to reach the cap. That gives us MORE than enough melee hit rating for even current end game TBC shamans. If it does, then its one of the most important talents we can pick up!

Perhaps a build like this with no spell hit bonus:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Or one like this WITH a spell hit bonus:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Nite_Moogle · 07/31/08, 6:52 PM

Dual Wield Specialization - Spell - World of Warcraft seems to indicate that right now it's affecting melee hit chance only; if it's applying to both it's almost certainly not intentional. Elemental Precision - Spell - World of Warcraft applies a different aura.

Talaus-Mok'Nathal · 07/31/08, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by Smithist

The wording is the same on Live and the wrath wowhead link lacks the [Apply Aura]: Mod Spell Hit Chance, so there's almost no way it does currently. Six percent for spell and melee would be almost too good, and it'd probably be lowered to 3 or something if it was changed to affect both.

I don't think it's too unreasonable for it to remain at 6%. After all, in BC we have a talent only 10 points into Resto that does 3% to both. However, they did drop the elemental talent to a 3% chance to hit. It doesn't seem right that an enhance talent would give more spell hit than the elemental talent. If it doesn't do spell hit though, maybe we can convince the Elementals out there to come within 20 yards of the melee to drop Wrath?

testthewest · 07/31/08, 6:57 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Appear to be able to use consumables in Ghost Wolf form without breaking it, and I was also running around collecting quest items from "clickable" world objects in GW form.

Maybe a stupid question:
Someone tried if windfury now is proccable while being a wolf?
I heard Mongoose now works for ferals (I know, it's something different, but still close).

Fearlezz · 07/31/08, 8:20 PM

Originally Posted by testthewest

Maybe a stupid question:
Someone tried if windfury now is proccable while being a wolf?
I heard Mongoose now works for ferals (I know, it's something different, but still close).

Cause totem is now haste buff, has nothing to do with weapon imbue