Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 43

vesicular · 07/26/08, 1:04 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

No it does not. I observed over the course of an hour that WF crits were not stacking the buff.

Is there talk of this being a bug? If not, I'm curious if going with a faster weapon would affect all of this. It would affect our WF and SS dmg, but would probably allow getting in an instant cast much more often than otherwise, given it would only proc off white attacks. I wonder if there's going to be some happy medium where slowest weapon doesn't automatically equal highest dps because of it. I'm going to assume not, but it would be an interesting change if that were the case.

Tornaz · 07/26/08, 1:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

They seem to stack but not as a straight 40% proc rate. I think it checks the first hand for a 20% proc and then if no proc checks the second hand.

Results from a quick a dirty test.

Single Imbue - 100 rank 1 Healing Waves = 21% proc rate

Double Imbue - 115 rank 1 Healing Waves = 29% proc rate

I don't think it would be worth it for a healer to spend the points in the Enhancement tree to get Dual Wield just to increase their proc rate of earthliving weapon (but I don't raid heal so I can't say that with any certainty).

It is a pretty nice HoT, with my 614 spell damage it was healing for 155 a second when active and the base heal on it is 30 a second.

Could you run a test with it just on the OH? With MW back to including heals on the current test version (correct me if I'm wrong), it's possible that a combat support shaman could frequently be called on for emergency or encounter phase healing. In this way, MW is a different application o the 2-piece T5 set bonus, and depending on circumstances and proc chance, it is potentially worthwhile (and either way, it's data worth knowing).

Based upon your numbers above, I expect the OH to show roughly 10% proc rate.

Also, if you have time, do two sets of tests - one with no MH weapon enhancement, and one with something non-healing related.

Malan · 07/26/08, 1:30 PM

Why the heck are we concerned with testing DW healing imbued?

Adrammelech · 07/26/08, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Except bloodlust is not raid wide.

Ah apologies, I could have sworn I saw that included. I'll remove my question.

Tornaz · 07/26/08, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Why the heck are we concerned with testing DW healing imbued?

To find out what the exact effects are.

Part of the raid utility of an enhancement Shaman has always been their ability to cover random splash damage which hits the DPS group they are in, or to kick back and throw heals in emergencies or during certain phases on boss fights. It's not like bliz surgically remove your ability to cast LHW the instant you talent for Dual-wield. Like Toots Hepcat said a few pages ago, you're playing Shaman, regardless of talent spec, you still have all the general Shaman abilites to consider and use.

We need to know what the numbers concerning DW ELW are before we can know in what circumstances (if any) it might be worth using. Even if it turns out that it's never useful, that's still information worth knowing.

Malan · 07/26/08, 1:59 PM

I think I can save you the trouble right now by saying it will never be better.

delbin · 07/26/08, 2:18 PM

The best way to handle offhealing would be to imbue two other weapons and use a weapon switch macro when it's time to heal. If your tank is going to die without the extra little hot on an emergency heal, then I don't think you should be waiting for malestrom to get its 5 stack. It would be interesting to see if it's better to switch to a healing shield instead of another weapon.

NeuroMedivh · 07/26/08, 3:47 PM

The best way to handle offhealing would be to imbue two other weapons and use a weapon switch macro when it's time to heal. If your tank is going to die without the extra little hot on an emergency heal, then I don't think you should be waiting for malestrom to get its 5 stack. It would be interesting to see if it's better to switch to a healing shield instead of another weapon.

Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but if the Tank is gonna die unless the Enhancement Shaman throws an emergency heal on him, then there's more problems than worrying about weapon enchants.

Enhancement Shaman should never be involved in mission-critical healing. Throwing an occasional Chain Heal on the melee group who are slowly losing health to a constant effect? Sure. Main Tank? Sorry, that's the healing team's department. And while saving the Main Tank's life might be a noble effort, all you are doing is covering up bad performance by other people, and killing your own performance in the meantime.

Rhaegal · 07/26/08, 4:28 PM

I agree that this is not at all a useful topic for raiding. However, some of us heal 5-mans and heroics in resto gear but don't bother to respec, and it'd be interesting to know if it's worth DWing a second weapon for the second weapon imbue, or just tossing on a shield.

delbin · 07/26/08, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by NeuroMedivh

Perhaps I am old-fashioned, but if the Tank is gonna die unless the Enhancement Shaman throws an emergency heal on him, then there's more problems than worrying about weapon enchants.

Enhancement Shaman should never be involved in mission-critical healing. Throwing an occasional Chain Heal on the melee group who are slowly losing health to a constant effect? Sure. Main Tank? Sorry, that's the healing team's department. And while saving the Main Tank's life might be a noble effort, all you are doing is covering up bad performance by other people, and killing your own performance in the meantime.

If me do gud deeps means dead tank, then I'm not really helping anyone. There's a lot of randomness in WoW. A raid could have alternate healers, healers can get graved/silenced/sacraficed, tank could take a series of crushing blows, etc. A lot of bad things can happen and the healers can't always cover if they're pusing new content. I'm not going to tell the healers that have been going with us since Karazhan that they suck and I shouldn't have to cover for them.

Seriously, what do you do if you're running two-healer ZA and one goes down or they both get sienced? Do you let the tank die and say "Sorry guys, my 6000 damage was more important than the chests?"

Malan · 07/26/08, 7:24 PM

You tell the healer or tank to do their job properly and take this stupid line of discussion to a resto thread. Because ZA is terribly relevant to WLK at 80 right?

Sprout · 07/26/08, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

You tell the healer or tank to do their job properly and take this stupid line of discussion to a resto thread. Because ZA is terribly relevant to WLK at 80 right?

While in general I agree that the standard specialized specs are the best way to setup a raid, it is by no means the ONLY way to setup a raid. Having the ability to insta heal if needed is a very nice little plus for Enh, even if you rarely do it in 25 mans. Anything that increases utility is a plus to a group or raid. Just because it is not min/max optimal does not mean it is not useful. Being situationally useful is good mmmmkay?

Imabug · 07/26/08, 8:37 PM

FYI, I'm more concerned about our DPS and raid benefits to enhancement. Not whether or not offhealing is smart or needed by us. Can we get back to this, please?

On that note: I haven't even thought to ask yet, as I don't see it yet in the thread - Can anyone confirm if Elemental Focus and Shamanistic Focus are a stacking buff (That is 100% reduction on Shocks) or a multiplicative bonus (That is, 1.00 * 0.40 * 0.60 or 76% reduction on shocks)? That would be nice to find out. Right now, I don't have the option of testing, as I have other things to address at this moment, but if noone can or cares to, I will later on. It'll prove to be nice to figure out some maths on how much savings picking up Elemental Focus is worth, along with how much an average two minutes would run with and without Convection.

Staticus · 07/27/08, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

I agree that this is not at all a useful topic for raiding. However, some of us heal 5-mans and heroics in resto gear but don't bother to respec, and it'd be interesting to know if it's worth DWing a second weapon for the second weapon imbue, or just tossing on a shield.

Precisely what I was thinking, as I used to do that when I was levelling (and still do occasionally). I prefer DW anyway for the extra +heal enchant (even since the nerfing of all the 1H caster/healer weapons), but with the new stuff coming in wotlk it's going to be a lot better IMO. (as it will be for spot heals in all raids and instances)

KraxisSingular · 07/27/08, 11:50 AM

Looking back at all my Kara runs it has been painfully obvious that most of the time when we were less well geared, three healers were not exactly required, yet two healers were too few for the later content. Hence a need to roll with three healers.

In such situatuations an Enhancement Shaman gimping his/her DPS a bit to throw out instant heals now and then would have been great. Then it would have been possible to run with two healers perhaps. And even a 70% DPS Enhancement Shaman is better than a full healer at DPS.

Isn't that worth considering?