Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 51

Skiace · 07/30/08, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Except there is a new build and static shock appears to be working as intended in it.

Whoops, guess I'm out of the loop. All I saw on mmo-champion was "no shaman changes this build" so I assumed it was still broken. On that note, has anyone done some testing to look for an internal cooldown?

Dragonhoof · 07/31/08, 5:59 AM

This thread now has 31 pages of arbitrary assumptions how talents and abilities may work. It has proven only one thing, that it is not possible to do serious theorycrafting without knowing how things will actually work.

Still people keep posting "perfect" rotations, talent builds, dps numbers, "ideal" gear setups and weapon choices, all based on numbers people pull out of their ..., you know what I mean.

How about we wait until certain things are done, before we get another 31 pages of useless stuff:

+ The shaman talent revamp, which Blizzard said is coming soon.
+ Details about shaman Inscriptions, which could reduce the cooldown of Stormstrike, Shocks, LvB, or modify other things important for our dps.
+ People that actually play the beta posting feedback about how certain talents and abilities work, so we can base calculations on true numbers. (e.g. if Flametongue still has a damage component, before you jump here posting slow/fast+flametongue beats everything else on dps)

There are so many things we don't know yet, will Maelstrom work on yellow attacks, what's the cooldown on static shock and how will it look with the new CoE, how will Spirit Wolves work, and so on.

Wundorn · 07/31/08, 6:15 AM

Originally Posted by Rhaegal

We do know that devs have stated on multiple occasions that they intend WF to be the best enhancement imbue. [...] They're aware of our concerns at this point, I wouldn't worry too much about weapon itemization.

I'm not that worried. I used most of the weapons you named (well, I passed on the BT trash set), so I'm a happy beneficiary of the improved itemization. My point was simply that we don't know enough yet to be *sure*. It's not like the devs have never implemented something that in retrospect didn't work out the way they intended.

In any case Dragonhoof's post is the most sensible thing I've seen here in a while, so I'm going to shut up until we have much better data. When we do, I'll still be interested in seeing just how much, if at all, fast weapons gimp us.

Paladia · 07/31/08, 6:19 AM

Originally Posted by Dragonhoof

This thread now has 31 pages of arbitrary assumptions how talents and abilities may work. It has proven only one thing, that it is not possible to do serious theorycrafting without knowing how things will actually work.

Still people keep posting "perfect" rotations, talent builds, dps numbers, "ideal" gear setups and weapon choices, all based on numbers people pull out of their ..., you know what I mean.

How about we wait until certain things are done, before we get another 31 pages of useless stuff:

+ The shaman talent revamp, which Blizzard said is coming soon.
+ Details about shaman Inscriptions, which could reduce the cooldown of Stormstrike, Shocks, LvB, or modify other things important for our dps.
+ People that actually play the beta posting feedback about how certain talents and abilities work, so we can base calculations on true numbers. (e.g. if Flametongue still has a damage component, before you jump here posting slow/fast+flametongue beats everything else on dps)

There are so many things we don't know yet, will Maelstrom work on yellow attacks, what's the cooldown on static shock and how will it look with the new CoE, how will Spirit Wolves work, and so on.

If you dislike theories and discussions about the wotlk talent and spells, this would seem like the wrong thread for you. In an MMO things are always subject to change, despite that, I, and a great deal of others, enjoy theorizing about spells and abilities. If people enjoy theorizing and discussing, why not let them? If they didn't, this thread would be empty and no one would be any better off.

Weev · 07/31/08, 6:47 AM

I'm heading out to the blasted lands now with a notebook to see if i can get some numbers for static shock cooldown.

I'll exclude all LS procs that occur within 1 second of the mob hitting me, unless i get multiple procs.

Will also try and test the FS tick.

LazyJoe · 07/31/08, 7:18 AM

I don't think there will be a cooldown on static shock, since it has a relatively low chance to proc, and doesn't do a lot of damage.

Let's take an example : you do 2 auto-attacks while stormstriking, and you get a windfury proc. That is 6 hit in one GCD, and the maximum you can get (unless flame shocks' dot can also proc static shock but they probably won't... feel free to investigate

).

Now with a 6% chance to proc, you have 1 - (94% ^ 6) = 31% chance to proc atleast one charge.

Chance to proc exactly one charge is 6 * ( 6% * (94% ^ 5) ) = 26,4%

You have 31% - 26,4% = 4,6% chance to proc atleast 2 orbs.

So even on a big burst of 6 attacks, it is very unlikely you will get more than 2 procs (3 maybe, but it is less than 1%... beyond 3 is just totally unlikely).

Malan · 07/31/08, 8:11 AM

Appear to be able to use consumables in Ghost Wolf form without breaking it, and I was also running around collecting quest items from "clickable" world objects in GW form.

Weev · 07/31/08, 8:13 AM

Ok

No cooldown on Static shock - I got 2 procs one second apart that were definately not due to being hit by the mob.

Removed - flame shock ticks don't proc LS

It also procs itself.

Anything else that i can test?

I noticed the GW quest item change last night collecting Scourged soil for a quest.

LazyJoe · 07/31/08, 8:45 AM

Very interesting. So Lavaburst will not only "steal" the direct flameshock dots' damage, but it will also steal chances to proc static shock.

Another fact pointing towards using lightning bolt with the maelstrom weapon buff when you don't need to refresh elemental devastation.

Malan · 07/31/08, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Weev

Ok

No cooldown on Static shock - I got 2 procs one second apart that were definately not due to being hit by the mob.

can also confirm that it is currently proccing off Flameshock ticks.

It also procs itself.

Please provide a combat log illustrating the bolded claims.

dedmonwakeen · 07/31/08, 9:04 AM

Reading the thread I see that beta reports indicate Windfury is not proc'ing Maelstrom Weapon.

Is this considered a "bug" or "working as intended"?

Can WF proc other stuff such as Flurry/Mongoose/Executioner?

Rhaegal · 07/31/08, 9:18 AM

Originally Posted by Weev

I'm heading out to the blasted lands now with a notebook to see if i can get some numbers for static shock cooldown.

It takes longer to get to, but you'd get more accurate testing on the guys in Dire Maul North, because they'll never turn around and hit you. You won't have to try to figure out if the charge going off is a Static Shock proc or due to incoming damage.

Weev · 07/31/08, 9:19 AM

My image editing skills are non-existant, but i'll see what I can do as I didn't take any pics while i was doing the test.

Rhaegal · 07/31/08, 9:21 AM

You don't need image editing skills. When you're fighting them, turn on /combatlog, and when you're done, cut and paste from the log file.

Jheherrin · 07/31/08, 9:27 AM

Unless it is completely overrun by idiots, would Gurubashi Arena or the Dire Maul Arena not be the best place to get accurate results?
Take a tank, a healer and yourself, and try and beat the crap out of the tank.

Edit: seems i've missed something, I never knew there were mobs in DM North that didn't hit back.