With ~20% crit and around 12% spell hit uptime was ~30%. Maelstorm weapon instant cast can raise this up to 50% but still only 4.5% crit for 8 talent points.
Elemental devastion ins't bad but concussion is. It's commonly accepted and even Blizzard have stated that good talent raise dps/longevity/survival around 1% per point. Concussion raise dps 1% * 10%-25%. Low end is where we are now and high end is where we should be with wotlk mechanic. So 0.1-0.25% per talent point look extremely bad. Blizzard could bumb up shock portion and leave nuke portion untouched. One fix would help PvE/PvP.

I think we can all agree that Concussion is an extraordinary weak talent if you look at the DPS upgrade for 5 points. Even though it's a tier1 talent it could receive a buff.

For the time being however, the question is not if those last 8 elementaltree talentpoints give us at least a 8% dmg upgrade, but if you can spend the points in a way that's granting more DPS. I think that's impossible at this moment.

Will it not be three hit caps?
* Yellow - easy to it given the 6% from talents
* Spell - the one discussed to death
* White - the utopical one

Not sure I would say you have 14 point "free" as I'm sure whatever fast OH/hit needed debate will result in us needing Elemental Devastation. Mael+LvB will mean a lot of spell crits after all and 9% melee crit is pretty grand.

Why on earth would we now want 347 hit rating in 3.0? The most you will ever need is enough hit ratting to cap spell hit - around 150ish at level 70, which is basically what I run with now anyway!!!

Since we will lose the 3% hit from resto tree, we will need 202 hit rating to be spell-hitcapped. Nothing hard to reach I agree (I had a bit more than that back then in half-blue/half-kara gear, when I was young and stupid ), but nothing guarantees that it will be more efficient to get to the spell hit cap than to increase other stats.



And I agree with Raut, any sane build (atleast for pve) will have maxed maelstrom weapons and elemental devastation, you don't need complex simulations to prove it (and beside pure efficiency, these talents are a refreshing breeze to our gameplay).

Why on earth are you asking me that? All I asked was if we don't have three caps.

Can anyone confirm that the spell hit is definitely 17%? I know we've been over this a few times, but from the few threads I keep up with around here, there still seems to be some confusion between old ranks and new ranks specifically--that the new rank of lightning bolt, for instance, has a 9% spell hit cap while the BC rank has a 17% cap. The mechanic sounds doubtful, but who knows.

Pitbull, I am just trying to understand your numbers,

At what level do you have 20% crit. When I hit 70 I have 24-25% in blues, cant remember if that was with GoA or not. If you assume ED is already up you have 9% more melee crit which should get you to permaflurry. Assmuing 2.6 weapon speed, thats ~ 21.6 sec per MW or about 45% up time. The ED only lasts 10 seconds though so it would be longer. You would get at least one more shock in the rotation most of the time, likely 2. Thats a 20% chance to extend ED for 6 more seconds and a 20% chance to give you an addiitional 10 seconds after 2 seconds of downtime


Which means to get ED up fully you need over 50% crit buffed. Doable with high end gear in BC if you push crit completely, but I would imagine that will take a long time before we have that type of gear in LK. So if you assume 50% uptime for ED to be generous, that would give us the 4.5% pitbull was talking about. Franly I think it will be significantly less.

But the number are way more complex that that, as you have to include haste (WF and pasive) and the extra shocks you would throw into the mix between MW/LvB combo's. Plus the lost DPS assuming you are using flameshock all the time to not eat SS nature buffs. And of course flurry which is an additional 30% more swings in the 10 second ED window

Assuming
2.6 weapons, flurry, WF, 20% crit, 12% hit, and that you start the rotation cycle with ED up (start the cycle when you get your 1st crit)

swings= 1/((2.6/2)*0.76*(0.66*(33/29))=1.35 swings/sec*0.95=1.45 hits/sec which is 2.38s/crit @ 20% or 4.2 crits per ED cycle. To get that too 5 you need 35% (buffed or unbuffed)

16/55/0
I would assume that would be the new one until more changes are made to the Enhancement Spec\Class.

I would move a point from ancestral knowledge to elemental focus. With the amount of spell criticals we will do(through lava burst mainly) having 40% less mana cost on next two spell, for the expense of just 2% more int sounds more than fair to me.

I don't know that there'll be a cookie cutter -- Neuro's spec is a good example of why.

First, with lowish int on your gear you'd get more by taking two points out of AK and putting one into Improved Shields, one into Static Shock. One point in static shock activates a new dps source for us, which is great.

Taking both imp strikes and reverberation is ideal, but cooldown interference will probably mean that one is more valuable than the other.

Imp Strike is on paper the lesser of the two -- unless you raid with an elemental shaman, who's gonna want the buff, or if you're having threat issues, in which case Stormstrike and its 30% reduced threat would be more valuable than a full threat shock. It also costs less in terms of talent points. If you're jammed up on the cooldowns and feel you aren't maximizing your cycles, Imp SS + Static Shock + Imp. Shields would be a stress free alternative to fast shocks & strikes.

Also still unsure of the raid utility of spirit wolves.

Finally: I agree that Elemental Focus is a way better talent in 3.0 than it is today. It's much better than 2% int. It would make the cost of LvB approach 0 (as the mana saved would be worth more than the mana spent). It's also completely worthless if we never go OOM, which may also be the case.

I mean 20% spell crit with 12% spell hit those numbers I got with my current gear with merged stats. Elemental devastion proc uptime was calcuted via Yo's sim. 30% uptime was result of 20shock per minute with those stats.
Maelstorm weapon give lighning bolt least once per 6s avarage. Then you get 3.33 spell per 10s. Rough uptime is then 1 - [1-(0.2*0.95)]^3.33 = ~0.5 or 50% uptime.
I was very hard time to even understand what you tryed to calculate here.



3.0 is wotlk talents before release. So I linked 70lvl wotlk build you linked 80lvl build.

hey guys, sorry this is kinda not in line with current discussion but couldnt see where else to put it.. also havnt read all 58 pages so if it was covered before then sorry.

Wanted to make a suggestion for Maelstrom weapon and see what you guys thought of it. My main concern with this talent is that it requires 5 full stacks before it will ever really become not just useful but useable at all in a fight.

The suggestion is to make a single stack reduce the cast time of your spells by 100%, but when you cast a spell it debuffs you stopping you from gaining any stacks on crit until the debuff wears off. The more stacks you have, the smaller the debuffs duration.

You can also easily allow healing spells to be used, only they would induce a longer cd than a damaging spell when cast. A 5 stack would still result in no cd for a damaging spell.

Putting more or less points into the talent could then reduce/increase the cd lengths. Allowing for flexibility in point spending depending on whether you felt you would need to instant cast before you have 5 stacks or not (more likely in PvP).

The options it opens are obvious, im mostly in favour of it since it would create a far more intelligent/skill based ability especially in PvP combat, where choosing when to sacrifice inducing a cd for the sake of a burst or heal might decide a match.

With the removal of Grace of Air Totem and its incorporation into Strength of Earth Totem, and the stated aim of Blizzard to remove totem twisting, can anyone confirm categorically that totem twisting is dead in WotLK?

ie: Is it dead because SoE now does both? Or is it dead because the "bug"/"unintended behaviour" has been fixed?

OR even is it still alive but you now do totem X & Y? If so what is X & Y?

It's dead because the totem no longer provides an imbue that persists after changing air totems. The addition of GoA to SoE would've helped, but if WF had remained unchanged you could have still technically twisted two air totems.

Just as an aside:

In the recent MMO-Champion post they discussed buff/debuff stacking (or lack there of) and I noticed something.

"Agility and Strength Buff: Strength of Earth Totem, Horn of Winter"

What is Horn of Winter? Nothing came up in wowhead.

The interesting talent game will be making a build in the 3.0 tree with 61 points. Most of us will be raiding after this pre-lich king patch and I'm pretty sure that should lead to some interesting dilemmas.

my taste was shifting to 21/50/0 at 80, but most of you probably know more than me.

For most of these mechanics though I guess we will have to wait and see a verdict from the boys with calculators when they get to the PTR

It's another Deathknight ability, haven't been able to find a description either. Interestingly, everything enhancement brings to the table can be covered by DK's (personal dps aside, which we don't know which will be better), while elemental still has some unique buffs. What annoys me the most is that as far as I'm aware, we're the only healing hybrid class that gets all our previously unique buffs covered by a non-healing class.

On a related note, have people seen the newest blue post on mmo-champion about raid stacking? Some guildies seem to think that this means that more "pure" dps classes will be brought to raids, whereas my own thinking is that since the intent is to be able to pick "good players" over "good classes" for raids, the hybrid dps'ers will have to be balanced by a higher personal dps. Otherwise, what's the point in playing them? Any thoughts on this?

Hey, I'm doing WotLK mechanics to my sim(enhsim - Google Code) now and I need some help with the rotations.

For example, currenty FS-ES rotation is prioritized like this: SS > FS if not up > ES.

If I add Maelstrom Weapon with LvB/LB, how does the rotation priority look then?

Also when I add Static Shock, there is a need to cast Lightning Shield too. How does it look then?

Your guildies need to read all the blue posts from the beta forums, accessible here: WoW Forums -> General Discussion These forums have been publicly accessible since the NDA was lifted.

Blizzard is changing the game in fundamental ways. This includes tanking mechanics, raid stacking and raid buffing. One of the designers flat out stated pure melee classes, i.e. rogue, will not do substantially more dps then 'hybrid' classes. They want to shift the game to a place where players, not classes or specs, are taken on a raid, (tank and healer excluded) - as you point out.

They have not said what a class, such as rogue, would get in order to be competitive with the hybrids, one possiblity tossed out was the utility of poisons. But at this point the rogue class hasn't been touched and the majority of WOTLK rogue talents don't work and have never worked. It's obvious they need to work out the mechanics of the new direction they've adopted before tackling pure melee dps classes.

One thing is for sure though, the 3.0 patch that goes to PTR will be significantly different then what hits live and subsequently what we'll see in WOTLK.

Can you code it like priority table. There might be spec that wanna priorotize shock rotation over SS or something like that.

Example.
Then user can test different rotations without re-coding.

Depending on how fast MW stacks and the cool down of Lava Burst, will the rotation even include Earth Shock still?