Enhancement WotLK Talents and spells discussion. - Page 63

Sprout · 09/04/08, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by Pitbuller

When running sim make sure that ep ranges are small enough. Hit value go down if test go over spell hit by large margin.
Default value for hit ep range is 150. And 13% is deafult spell hit. When sim test hit value spell hit go up to 25% if you lower hit ep range value to 45 you get much higher ep value. Make sure that you take all spell hit buffs off. Same with expertice don't let sim overcap and devalute ep values. I have tested this sim from first release and hit ep is allways been over crit before spell hit cap. When posting ep numbers you should link config file too.

Sorry about not posting the config, I was not sure if that was kosher....as for the hit and Expertise value, I THINK I have them setup correctly but this is my 1st time using this.

#################	//comment marks are # and //
##ENHSIM CONFIG##	//if you write comments on the same line with config line
#################	//leave at least one space between the comment and value

//IMPORTANT: Be careful when inputting your stats. Read is the value rating or percent etc. Read the comments.

simulation_time			5000 	//in hours, you can also input decimals ex. 0.05
simulation_time_combatlog	30	//in minutes
combat_length			5	//in minutes
report_count			80 	//how many times the progress is reported during the simulation
threads				2	//number of threads to use, combatlogging always uses 1 thread


########### //To understand the EP ranges you have to understand how EP values are calculated. 
#EP RANGES# //For example, to calculate EP value of crit rating, first I simulate the normal "baseline" dps.
########### //Then I simulate dps with increased crit rating. I take the dps difference and divide it by the
//increased crit rating to get dps/crit rating value. EP range means how much crit rating did I increase.

//Watch the expertise and hit caps. For example if expertise goes over the cap resulting from too high EP
//range, the EP value will go lower than it should be. On the other hand, if you give too low EP ranges,
//you won't get accurate results.

//If hit/spellhit or expertise is already over the cap, test will be skipped. Although you can
//give negative ep range to see how much EP is hit/expertise worth to have.

ep_ap				300
ep_crit_rating			100
ep_hit_rating			150
ep_expertise			10 //not rating
ep_haste_rating			200
ep_armor_ignore			600
ep_spellpower			300
ep_agility			120
ep_intelligence			200


##########
#SHAMAN###
##########
mh_speed			2.60
oh_speed			2.60
mh_dps				100.3
oh_dps				100.3
mh_crit				28.22
oh_crit				28.22
mh_hit				8.05	//you give hit which shows on your character sheet
oh_hit				8.05
mh_expertise_rating		17	//notice that these are given as rating, 20 rating is about 5 expertise
oh_expertise_rating		17
ap				1821	//when changing this, remember to change the spellpower also(if have mental quickness talent)
haste				4.76
ignore_armor			77
str				399
agi				217
int				286
spellpower			460	//you give the spellpower which shows on your character sheet
spell_crit			18.00   //*****not sure of crit
spell_hit			8.05	//you give spell hit which shows on your character sheet

mh_imbue	 		windfury	
oh_imbue	 		windfury
//{ windfury | flametongue | - }

mh_enchant			mongoose
oh_enchant			mongoose
//{ mongoose | executioner | crusader | - }

trinket1			ashtongue_talisman
trinket2			bloodlust_brooch
//{ dragonspine_trophy | ashtongue_talisman |
//  madness_of_the_betrayer | hourglass_of_the_unraveller |
//  tsunami_talisman | shard_of_contempt |
//  berserkers_call | bloodlust_brooch |
//  shadowsong_panther | blackened_naaru_sliver |
//  darkmoon_card_crusade | - }

totem				stonebreakers_totem
//{ stonebreakers_totem | totem_of_the_astral_winds | - }

set_bonus			skyshatter_harness
//{ cyclone_harness | cataclysm_harness |
//  skyshatter_harness | desolation_battlegear | - }

metagem				relentless_earthstorm_diamond
//{ relentless_earthstorm_diamond | thundering_skyfire_diamond | chaotic_skyfire_diamond }


##########
#ROTATION#
##########
average_shocks_per_minute	10	//for example, put to 10.0 to have shock cooldown of 6 seconds
maelstrom_weapon		lb	//{ lvb | lb | - } this assumes that you have 5 points in MW, if LvB is on cd, then LB is casted

//set the rotation priority
//ss = stormstrike
//fs = flame shock
//es = earth shock
//frost = frost shock
//mw = maelstrom weapon
//ls = lightning shield
rotation_priority1		mw
rotation_priority2		es
rotation_priority3		ss
rotation_priority4		ls
rotation_priority5		fs


##########
#BOSS#####
##########
miss				9.00
dodge				6.50
glancing			25.00
armor				7700
spell_miss			17.00

nature_resistance		0	//effective resistances
fire_resistance			0
frost_resistance		0


##########
#MISC#####
##########
stormstrike_cooldown		8.00
stormstrike_nature_damage_buff	20.00	//%, put to 20.00 if you are consuming ss buff
wait_ss_with_wf_cd		0.00	//max seconds to wait to SS, if wf cd is still up
use_searing_totem		1	//{ 0 | 1(static calculation, fast) | 2(real model, slow) }


#########
#TALENTS#
#########
flurry				5/5	//ENHANCEMENT
ancestral_knowledge		5/5
elemental_weapons		3/3
mental_quickness		3/3
mental_dexterity		3/3
weapon_mastery			5/5
dual_wield_specialization	3/3
unleashed_rage			5/5
improved_shields		0/3
static_shock			0/3

concussion			5/5	//ELEMENTAL
call_of_flame			0/3
//reverberation			0/5	//unused, you control the shock cd with average_shocks_per_minute
elemental_devastation		2/3
elemental_fury			0/1
elemental_precision		0/3


######### //default value after the buff in comment
#BUFFS### //put to 0 if you dont use that buff
#########
armor_debuff_major		2600/2600		//acid spit, expose armor, sunder armor
armor_debuff_minor		610/610		//faerie fire, sting, curse of recklessness
physical_vulnerability_debuff	4.0/4.0		//bloody frenzy, 2nd talent spec TBA
melee_haste_buff		20.0/20.0		//improved icy talons, windfury totem
melee_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//leader of the pack, rampage
attack_power_buff_flat		306/306		//battle shout, blessing of might
attack_power_buff_multiplier	99.7/99.7	//BUFF UPTIME, DISABLES UR, abominations might, trueshot aura, (unleashed rage)
spell_haste_buff		5.0/5.0		//wrath of air totem
spell_crit_chance_buff		5.0/5.0		//moonkin aura, elemental oath
spell_crit_chance_debuff	10.0/10.0	//improved scorch, winter's chill
spell_damage_debuff		10.0/10.0	//ebon plaugebearer, earth and moon, curse of elements, totem of wrath
spellpower_buff			150/150		//focus magic, improved divine spirit, flametongue totem, demonic pact
spell_hit_chance_debuff		3.0.0/3.0		//improved faerie fire, misery
haste_buff			3.0.0/3.0		//improved moonkin aura, swift retribution
percentage_damage_increase	3.0.0/3.0		//ferocious inspiration, sanctified retribution
crit_chance_debuff		3.0.0/3.0		//heart of the crusader, totem of wrath
stat_multiplier			10.0/10.0	//blessing of kings
stat_add_buff			19/19		//mark of the wild
agi_and_strength_buff		98/98		//strength of earth, horn of winter
intellect_buff			40/40		//arcane intellect, fel intelligence


#############
#CONSUMABLES#
#############

flask_elixir			elixir_of_major_agility
//{ flask_of_relentless_assault | elixir_of_major_agility | fel_strength_elixir |
//  elixir_of_major_strength | elixir_of_demonslaying | elixir_of_the_mongoose | - }

potion				haste_potion
//{ haste_potion | insane_strength_potion | heroic_potion | - }

food				spice_hot_talbuk
//{ roasted_clefthoof | spice_hot_talbuk | ravager_dog | warp_burger | - }

misc_item			-
// { drums_of_battle | - }

Results (added raid buffs)- much more in line with what I would expect. Thanks for the reply Pit

EP                  value

baseline
ap                  1
crit rating         2.83
hit rating          2.12
expertise rating    3.09
haste rating        0.81
armor ignore        0.24
spellpower          0.85
strength            1.10
agility             2.38
intelligence        1.51

Pitbuller · 09/04/08, 4:30 PM

Sprout: You have inputted 8.05% spell hit + spicy hot talbuk and hit ep range is 150. When sim calculate hit rating ep your spell hit goes 22%. 5% percent over spell hit cap.
Try with these ranges. Also try fast off-hand with flame tongue add 150dps to me.

ep_ap				300
ep_crit_rating			100
ep_hit_rating			50
ep_expertise			10 //not rating
ep_haste_rating			200
ep_armor_ignore			600
ep_spellpower			300
ep_agility			120
ep_intelligence			200

Taowth · 09/04/08, 7:56 PM

Just something to keep in mind before everyone goes crazy and plans out new gear and such, we havnt gotten any real passes for our class, so there will be changes. The sims put crit so high simply because it procs so much of our stuff but specifically Maelstrom. So crits directly relate to more damage. However Maelstrom being an on crit proc is a major problem for the skill's design for use in PvP, and with the planned change to Sham Focus bringing specific blue comments acknowledging we have too many proc things going for us its possible that they'll listin to some of the beta posters and change the mechanic.
Could happen, could not.
Regardless, what i'm saying is theres no real need go nuts about the EP values until we get at least our first pass.

About Dks getting our buffs, I personally dont mind sharing buffs, the problem for me is that its DKs that got ALL of them. Almost everything good for a shaman they've tossed over to DKs. 1 class taking another's role. I'd rather see something like DKs get haste equiv and fury wars get AP boost.

glowacks · 09/04/08, 9:06 PM

While I'm quoting this to respond to it, it brought to mind other issues I've been thinking about with respect to Shaman DPS.

Originally Posted by Toots Hepcat

Simulations suggest about an 11% increase in WF DPS when stormstrike is used (above two slow weapons with no stormstrike). Thus a 20% increase in stormstrike frequency should increase total WF DPS by about 2.2%, or 1.1% per talent point.

This doesn't seem accurate if there's an internal cooldown on Windfury. While it may not be a huge difference, it does mean that there isn't a straight linear relationship between the the ratio of SS/time and WF dps. Even if you absolutely never use SS during the WF cooldown not only does doing so reduce the utility of Imp SS, you still are missing potential WF procs on white attacks regardless of when you use it. I wouldn't accept anything but a simulation to see the increase in DPS from Imp SS, and there are far more variables that go into the total DPS increase than the increase in WF procs. Lowering the CD of SS alters the "cycle" and may cause a decrease in shock and Lava Burst damage, and potentially Totem and Lighntning Shield uptime. That all depends on your priority list, and the optimization of such a list will likely have to be done itself by simulation.

Thus, I'm glad to see a bunch of work being done towards getting a good simulation up and running; I hope that the authors are mindful of the fact that in the long run (over the course of a 6+ minute fight) enhancement shaman are going to be doing much more than a 24 or however many second cycle due to needing to drop totems and recast LS wherever the GCDs are available - and just when to drop them relative to the time remaining on them so as to maximize both their uptime and SS/Shocks/LvB damage is a very difficult problem. This is sort of application at the heart of Operations Research - optimizing something(DPS) over the whole operation(raid) instead of maximizing each component. While the mathematics of it probably can handle constraints based on the GCD such that you only cast so much in a given time, it probably can't handle the clipping. Thus, I doubt a mathematical model will be any easier to develop than a good sim.

Dropping a buffing totem if its about to expire (or already has) will likely be more DPS than anything you can personally do, especially with raid-wide totems, but there is still an optimization problem with regard to when to refresh them with respect to your priority queue so as to minimize the chances that dropping a totem will clip your DPS abilities. Consider this estimation of GCD usage in a multi-minute stationary DPS phase:

Shocks: 1.5s every 6s - even with 4-5/5 Reverb, you're going to get clipped at some point by abilities (or totems) with higher DPS, so this seems like a reasonable estimate. This is 1/4 of GCD time.

Stormstrike: 1.5s every 9s - assuming 2/2 Imp SS as other things are going to clip this, and 1.5/9 is a nice "round" 1/6.

Lava Burst: 1.5s every 9s. It's a bit of a stretch to assume that you'll average this given the vagaries of crit streaks, but given that it's likely the highest personal DPS ability it probably "wins" over the above two abilities in terms of clipping. With experiments showing slow/slow has little problem getting Maelstrom ramped up in time, another 1/6 of GCD time is a good estimate.

Lightning Shield: Likely low priority, but you'll want to get it back up whenever you have time. Looking at a 60 second period, dual 1.6 hasted weapon speeds (after WF totem, Flurry, and passive Haste) is 75 white attacks along with 10 shocks and 13 combined SS + LvB gives 98 possible procs and thus an average of 5.88 Static Shock ppm, *just* short of the 6 LS charges. If SS gives two chances for it to proc then an estimate of 1.5s per 60 seconds, or 1/40, is almost exact.

Total GCD time spent outside of Totems is: 1/4 + 2/6 + 1/40 = (30+40+3)/120 = 73/120, which is just over 60%. Thus it should be possible to find plenty of time to drops totems inside one's regular "cycle". Assuming you can probably only expect 1/3 of the GCD time to be available for totems when you need it, you'll need to look for GCDs starting around 12 seconds remaining if they were previously dropped about the same time. In future cycles where the totems were likely not all dropped in a 4s period it will get a bit easier, but you'll still want to look for open GCDs with at least 3 seconds left per of totem about to expire. All this assumes mana is an issue such that you won't just drop whatever totem is going to expire first whenever you have a free GCD, something I doubt people would want to do anyway.

I apologize if this was obvious to those that have actually been playing enhancement regularly in raids or in beta, but I at least wanted to get some math out on the subject as well as point out that you'll have to fit in the dropping of totems into whatever priority queue you have for your simulations.

Urgok · 09/04/08, 9:57 PM

Is latency being factored into your simulation, and does anyone even think this matters much? If you're relying on a very tightly knit skill rotation a higher latency might matter, thats really the only thing I can thing of at the moment. It doesn't seem to be particularly important, but maybe more important then it is live.

Just something to keep in mind before everyone goes crazy and plans out new gear and such, we havnt gotten any real passes for our class, so there will be changes. The sims put crit so high simply because it procs so much of our stuff but specifically Maelstrom. So crits directly relate to more damage. However Maelstrom being an on crit proc is a major problem for the skill's design for use in PvP, and with the planned change to Sham Focus bringing specific blue comments acknowledging we have too many proc things going for us its possible that they'll listin to some of the beta posters and change the mechanic.
Could happen, could not.
Regardless, what i'm saying is theres no real need go nuts about the EP values until we get at least our first pass.

Isn't a bridge patch due out some time soon? If they implement any of the class changes that have been hinted at is a different question though.

Levva · 09/05/08, 5:53 AM

Originally Posted by glowacks

Stormstrike: 1.5s every 9s - assuming 2/2 Imp SS as other things are going to clip this, and 1.5/9 is a nice "round" 1/6.

Lava Burst: 1.5s every 9s. It's a bit of a stretch to assume that you'll average this given the vagaries of crit streaks, but given that it's likely the highest personal DPS ability it probably "wins" over the above two abilities in terms of clipping. With experiments showing slow/slow has little problem getting Maelstrom ramped up in time, another 1/6 of GCD time is a good estimate.

A couple of mistakes here.

2/2 Imp SS gives 2 sec off CD so CD becomes every 8 sec or 7 if you have the 4 pt arena bonus (but who would with PvE gear).

Lava Burst the cooldown is 8s not 9s. Lava Burst - Spell - World of Warcraft

Levva · 09/05/08, 6:09 AM

Originally Posted by Urgok

Isn't a bridge patch due out some time soon? If they implement any of the class changes that have been hinted at is a different question though.

The current best guess is that they will put up patch 3.0.2 on PTR for Fri 12th Sep 2008, or Fri 19th Sep 2008 to stem the flow of people to Warhammer Online launched on 18th September. The idea being "don't bother with that other game look at all the new shiny stuff we have in the game you love".

However between now and the PTR there will likely be 2-3 beta patches as the norm has become patch on a Friday for lots of testing by folks over the weekend. We are on our 6th or 7th patch since beta was launched. At least part of these patches will contain the skills/talent passes of each class. And probably the first "balancing pass" at all the classes.

Of course once the PTR hits the beta will continue as they still will be testing the new raid instances for 10s and 25s, tuning the bosses etc etc. At the same time they have to deal with issues arising on the PTR that they find by having the PTR swamped by lots of players eager to try out all the new stuff.

The more I think about that the more I believe that the PTR will probably be up for at least 4-6 weeks possibly nearer 8 I suspect it may even depend on how they do vs Warhammer. That gives us a mid October to mid November range for patch 3.0.2 to hit live.

It is likely they will use the PTR however to get lots of players to assess game balance. This strikes me as a sensible position. They use the beta to get the skills/talents and the design of the classes in place, and use the PTR to do numerous passes to address balance issues. The PTR will have a far wider range of players all fixed at lvl 70 so addressing balance will be easier there.

Back in the beta we will still have all the testing of the raids to do however and the tuning of all the bosses for both 10 man and 25 man runs. That's a lot of bosses to test and tune. Remember too that they have stated that once Patch 3.0.2 goes live they will have another Beta server with premade 80s so that they can test all the level 80 stuff and do some lvl 80 class balancing as well as being able to test the raids.

So there should be at least a month possibly 2-3 months between patch 3.0.2 going live and WotLK launching. So a Dec launch is still possible but my money would be on it being pushed back for "needing some more polishing" into Jan/Feb 2009.

Edit: Breaking news, lvl 80 pre-mades available on EXISTING beta servers today.

Deltron · 09/05/08, 5:09 PM

has anyone noticed if we're going to be getting the itemization changes in 3.0.2? I'd like to know when to start saving up gems.

Matsumi · 09/05/08, 5:15 PM

when 3.0 hits live, the ap changes will be in place. Str -> 1 ap, Agi -> 1 ap, and if talented, Int -> 1 ap.

mek · 09/05/08, 6:06 PM

Enhance tier 4/5/6 has also been reitemized, with all STR converted to AP.

Rouncer · 09/05/08, 6:35 PM

Wind Shock

It will be off the GCD.

Nice to see but is basically somewhere between jack and shit unless it doesn't share a cooldown with our other shocks.

Hothgor · 09/05/08, 7:31 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Wind Shock

Nice to see but is basically somewhere between jack and shit unless it doesn't share a cooldown with our other shocks.

Which I posted about, minus the profanities at WoW Forums -> Wind shock, and GCD

If they dont take it off the shared cooldown, I'll be sure to add it to the discussion you and I were having at WoW Forums -> Koraa: Enhancement 'Feel' and Class Parity v1

Rouncer · 09/05/08, 7:49 PM

My part in your thread had more to do with the doofus who didn't seem to understand resilience mechanics and how they relate to abilities that proc off offensive critical strikes.

(e)I really hope it's not on the shock cooldown. Just doesn't make any sense to keep it on that cooldown since it does not damage.

That would be like linking the cooldown of Kick or Pummel or Counterspell to Shiv or Hamstring or Blink.

Hothgor · 09/05/08, 8:13 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

My part in your thread had more to do with the doofus who didn't seem to understand resilience mechanics and how they relate to abilities that proc off offensive critical strikes.

(e)I really hope it's not on the shock cooldown. Just doesn't make any sense to keep it on that cooldown since it does not damage.

That would be like linking the cooldown of Kick or Pummel or Counterspell to Shiv or Hamstring or Blink.

Which is exactly what my rough draft included. There is no way they will unlink it without taking the interrupt mechanic off of Earth Shock though.

Rouncer · 09/05/08, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Hothgor

There is no way they will unlink it without taking the interrupt mechanic off of Earth Shock though.

Which would be fine with every single shaman I would think.

aikiwoce · 09/05/08, 8:56 PM

Spirit wolves abilities from build 8905 -

Spirit Hunt - Your Spirit Wolves' attacks heal them and you for %d.
Spirit Walk - Removes all movement impairing effects and increases the movement speed of you and your Spirit Wolves by 60% for %d.
Spirit Wolf Leap - no description
Bash - Your Spirit Wolves stun the target for $d.
Spirit Bite - Your Spirit Wolves bite the enemy, causing $s1 Nature damage.
Twin Howl - Your Spirit Wolves howl, forcing all enemies to attack them for $d.

Rouncer · 09/05/08, 9:05 PM

Originally Posted by aikiwoce

Spirit wolves abilities from build 8905 -

Spirit Hunt - Your Spirit Wolves' attacks heal them and you for %d.
Spirit Walk - Removes all movement impairing effects and increases the movement speed of you and your Spirit Wolves by 60% for %d.
Spirit Wolf Leap - no description
Bash - Your Spirit Wolves stun the target for $d.
Spirit Bite - Your Spirit Wolves bite the enemy, causing $s1 Nature damage.
Twin Howl - Your Spirit Wolves howl, forcing all enemies to attack them for $d.

Questions

Does Spirit Walk stack with Ghost Wolf?

Answer

Who cares, doggies got BASH

aikiwoce · 09/05/08, 9:10 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Questions

Does Spirit Walk stack with Ghost Wolf?

Answer

Who cares, doggies got BASH

Dunno, but very likely stacks like dash for for druids. Spirit Hunt converts all the "doggies" damage into healing for you and them for apparently 10s, if I read the file right. Spirit Walk should last for 30s, and Spirit Bite says 95 damage, but I also assume it's modified by attack power.

Update:
Spirit Walk - Spell - World of Warcraft - 15 sec duration, 32 sec cooldown
Spirit Wolf Leap - Spell - World of Warcraft
Spirit Hunt - Spell - World of Warcraft - 5 sec duration, 10 sec cooldown
Bash - Spell - World of Warcraft
Spirit Bite - Spell - World of Warcraft - 5 sec cooldown, 96 to 144 damage
Twin Howl - Spell - World of Warcraft

Update 2:
Feral Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft - 2 min cooldown, last 30s. Does not appear to be a shaman ability.

Update 3:
Feral Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft - 3 min cooldown, last 45s. Dunno what the other one is for.

Krim · 09/05/08, 9:34 PM

Without knowledge whether the Spirit Wolves will increase with AP, Int, or whatever (do they use Mana?) do we think that they will be an appropiate 51 point talent for raiding? I can forsee the speed movement, if it works indoors, having incredibly use in PvE circumstances as well as the "healing" generated from the wolves. Though without proven numbers the damage dealt seems rather lackluster. My own personal view would to ignore Spirit Wolves and go 11/60/0 for 'maximum' damage and group utility. I say "maximum" in apostrophe's because it's being used possessively, meaning that this is a possession I grant this build current use, but could (and will) probably change as the data for Spirit Wolves develops further.

Rouncer · 09/05/08, 9:46 PM

Windfury Weapon - Spell - World of Warcraft

Windfury Weapon Rank 8
7% of base mana
Instant cast
Requires Melee Weapon
Imbue the Shaman's weapon with wind. Each hit has a 20% chance of dealing additional damage equal to two extra attacks with 1250 extra attack power. Lasts 30 minutes.

Gurth999 · 09/06/08, 1:03 AM

Does the damage (and hit points) of the feral spirits scale with caster stats at all? And what is their autoattack speed?

I'm a bit underwhelmed by the 2 second stun on a 45 second (really 3 minute) cooldown. The mechanics for them seem a bit wonky (watching a video, one wolf charges, the other trots up later etc) so I would hope they are still a work in progress.

Koshea · 09/06/08, 1:11 AM

I have to believe that's not gonna be our rank

For one, we get rank 5 of Windfury weapon at level 68 and it has 445 Base Attack power before talents. There are 3 ranks between Rank 5 and Rank 8 that all say Level 68 required. I'm guessing we are seeing 78, 88 and 98 ranks, same with flametongue totem jumping from 62 for rank 4 to 144 nine levels later.

For two, can you imagine? Talented that's 1750 Attack Power, Include the new Glyph and your at 2250. Thats an enormous jump in AP compared to our 623 with talent at current. Hell, I don't have 2250 Attack power on my character sheet unless I'm raid buffed.

I'm betting people should expect to see Rank 6 of windfury weapon and flametongue totem be the final rank we'll see by level 80

Summons a Flametongue Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster. Party members within 30 yards of the totem have their spell damage and healing increased by up to 106. Lasts 2 min.
11% of base mana, Instant cast

Imbue the Shaman's weapon with wind. Each hit has a 20% chance of dealing additional damage equal to two extra attacks with 835 extra attack power. Lasts 30 minutes.
7% of base mana, Instant cast

That's still a huge boost from what were use to. Especially with the Inscription adding another 40%. If I'm right, we will still be hitting 1503 Extra Attack Power on each swing.

Koshea · 09/06/08, 1:15 AM

Also, has anyone mentioned on the shaman beta forums that tier 6 socket bonus' are still +Strength even after the reitemization?

As horribly uninspired as their "revamp" was, I have to believe that was an oversight to leave that on there. Even flat AP amounts would be better.

panny · 09/06/08, 1:26 AM

After the change to Ret PvP sockets messed up, I don't think they'll change socket bonuses anymore. Sad to see they're going the easy route with just changing STR to AP, it makes our set pieces alot less desirable. Are the Sunwell T6 pieces still even best in slot? Also, the Guardian's Chain PvP pieces are far far better than the Guardian's Linked PvP pieces now.

Re: Feral Spirit. Sounds promising, though it would be nice if they had a snare. One of the biggest issues in PvP at the moment is that keeping someone in melee range with Frost Shock means you're fairly screwed against any spell your target choses to cast. Having a snare off the GCD would be nice. Making Frostbrand worth using would be even nicer!

Koshea · 09/06/08, 1:40 AM

Originally Posted by panny

One of the biggest issues in PvP at the moment is that keeping someone in melee range with Frost Shock means you're fairly screwed against any spell your target choses to cast. Having a snare off the GCD would be nice. Making Frostbrand worth using would be even nicer!

I just believe it's about time all of our shocks were unlinked. With the %mana cost I can't see any spec of shaman blowing through all 3 damage shocks just to get a ton of damage in considering how much mana that would waste, and all have better things to do with their GCD. It might also give Enhancement Shaman a much more active feel in combat than they will have in Wrath with the removal of Twisting.

I personally am going to miss being on the GCD constantly. At least I feel like I'm doing something.

Maybe I'm wrong as I'm not in the beta, but to do the absolute max damage you can in Wrath your still just hitting SS every 8 seconds, LvB every 8 seconds and a shock every 5-6 seconds depending on talents?

And they changed the socket bonus on Netherstrike long before that, hasn't been any issue with that. Although it's not much of a problem since the t6 is still worthless unless they change it again and get rid of Mp5, people can just ignore the socket bonus and gem how they want.

Also, the Skyshatter pieces from SwP are still the best pieces in their slots even before you factor in that they have Intellect on them. Doesn't hurt that the competition with those slots is very weak though.