I recall a "feature" of Windfury being that if single-enchanted, it has an 18% proc rate, and only when dual enchanted does it have the 36% proc rate we observe. Is this still the case? If so, it's going to seriously dent the slow/fast theorycrafting as it will significantly reduce the frequency of MH procs.

Isn't that just 0,2 + 0,8*0,2 for the procrate when attacking with both weapons?

Or does my memory fail me once again? I'm not sure.. and too lazy to spec enhancement to test it

It was never the case. WF has a 20% chance to proc from any given attack if it's off CD. When dual enchanted, in the 80% of attacks where it doesn't proc from MH it has a further 20% chance to proc from the OH. 20% of 80% is 16%, for a total of 36%.

Hmm thats not right, if I read this here:

http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t20765-shaman_enhancement/

This value is coming from the broad statement that windfury as a whole can proc. Its not saying that each had becomes 36% when DWing, its saying combined out of CD, the overall chance a wf will happen MH or OH is 36%.

Those other classes dont rely part of their rotation on proc stacking, like we will with Maelstrom. so you cant say that 100% when the next spell to cast in your "set rotation" is ready, that you'll have 5 stacks maelstrom, or you could have it before thats ready. Would you ignore an early 5 stack to cast earth shock, wait 2-3 more sec for a LvB, or cast an early LB and then go from there, etc etc.


And yes, we demanded another melee attack. But we expected a main hand attack, which would actually do reasonable damage. We're the only DW class that doesnt have OH boosting talents, and yet this skill focuses on the OH, which also cripples WF usage, unless the CDs are unlinked. (Which is something i'd like to see put into the sim, option to unlink CDs, so we can sim the dps gain of it to provide example numbers as to why and how it would contribute)

Actually, no, it became a 36% chance for either hand when you dual wielded.

That was discovered based on testing with Stormstrike and pausing after each one so that windfury was always off cooldown (at least thats how I recall the determination being derived - I'm sure Toots or Malan could elaborate further).

They ended up with a 36% proc rate on Mainhand Windfuries using that technique, and then 36% of the stormstrikes without mainhand windfuries had offhand windfuries. Which was the basis for waiting till Windfury was off cooldown before hitting Stormstrike since it checked mainhand first with a very nice proc rate.

Alrighty, I've looked over the first few pages and the last few pages of this thread and didn't see what I was exactly looking for (or I missed it, if I did sorry), but what is the new amount of AGI we need to hit 1% crit, and was our critical strike rating changed in any way (don't think it was), thanks.

I think this could help you. -_-'

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/

With the latest change to earthbind totem, could someone scream from the heavens on the US beta forums that GW needs it's mana cost reduced again? I know it's already been suggested, but only once, and they didn't seem to respond. It's quite a mana sink at the moment, and was presumably implemented because of Imp. GW.

The person who suggested the Maelstrom Weapon change knew nothing about WoLK PvE mechanics and suggested a 12 second cooldown. Yes, that's right. A 12 second cooldown. He was obviously thinking about PvP and didn't think about the incredible nerf this would be to our DPS. I posted on that thread for him to delete/edit it immediately before Blizzard saw it and thought it was something we wanted. Obviously, he didn't listen.

Our DPS is about to go majorly down the tubes. The new version has to have a long cooldown or it makes it broken for PvP purposes. The whole reason Maelstrom could do that much DPS was that it wasn't that hot in PvP due to needing 5 crits in fifteen seconds. The new one is great for PvP but outright horrific in PvE. If it is implemented, we're in for some serious heartache.

The entire enhance tree will need to be buffed somehow. We're talking hundreds of DPS here when we were the low man on the DPS scale to start with. All the things that came together to produce our DPS fall apart with this change.

Lava Lash was cool for the old Maelstrom but is terrible for the new one. We'll be using Windfury instead of Flametongue so using it means we drastically cut our main-hand windfury percentage. Our mechanics will essentially punish us for using the new move unless Windfury is changed drastically. It is wrong that a Lava Lash could cost us DPS if it procs windfury.

This also means that fast isn't rewarding enough anymore so Static Shock becomes unwanted. It won't deal enough damage to warrant losing the mana regen of water shield.

Elemental Devastation downtime goes down a lot. It doesn't last as long as MW's new cooldown.

All this because some guy who liked PvP wrote a big post about talents he liked/disliked. What a disaster.

We had all better pray that Blizzard actually keeps it's promise to adjust our DPS to match everyone else's after we come out with our new gimped numbers. If they use the DPS from the old model, we'll be in serious trouble.

Glad to see they liked my suggestion, even if I did get an EJ infraction point for asking if someone could post it on the beta forum But it doesn't matter, if what it takes to help the current state of shaman is to get myself banned for putting good ideas forward then so be it

Anyway, with this change it would be nice to add a feature to the EnhSim to help us decide how many points we can take out of MW and put somewhere else while still keeping the same end effect.

If it's just 20/40/60/80/100% chance to produce a charge out of a possible five, then it's just the same as far as we are concerned. I thought it was the guy who did that long talent review who suggested a one charge long cooldown style. The idea was to make Enhance Shamans more PvP viable. Some shamans really liked the idea as it made Maelstrom really worth having as you could easily use it on every cooldown.

Hopefully a false alarm then. It seems there was multiple 20/40/60/80/100 ideas out there.

The problem with a cooldown is scaling. As we can see from our Windfury scaling, any cooldown causes that ability to gain less from haste effects. In Maelstrom Weapon's case, it also reduces the scaling from critical strike rating. Right now, having more melee critical causes it to build faster with the only cooldown being how fast we can fire the spell off.

I understand that a one charge system is easier to understand. But making it an extra attack like that creates PvP balancing issues as it can generate massive instant cast heals or DPS spells for a DPS class on a consistent basis. It forces a longish cooldown to ensure other classes have a chance to beat us. Which, in turn, limits our PvE capability.

What are you talking about?

Blue has said that they are changing MW to give a 20/40/60/80/100% chance per crit for a charge that reduces cast time by 20% and stacks to 5. There has been no mention of a cooldown or anything else like that?

Like I said, there were multiple 20/40/60/80/100 ideas out there. One for PvE. One for PvP. It apparently was the PvE one that is being implemented. There was some discussion of the PvP one last time I was on the WoW forums. I mistaken believed that it was the PvP one that was being implemented. I was very familiar with the PvP one and wasn't familiar with the PvE one.

PvP idea involved 20/40/60/80/100 chance to get a Maelstrom powered spell on a critical strike but had a 12 sec cooldown.

PvE idea advanced by Fearlezz was 20/40/60/80/100 chance to get a Maelstrom charge on a critical strike.

The wording used by Koraa made it unclear which one he was referring to (I'm assuming the thread he posted it on had the PvE idea in it). I saw the wording, thought of the PvP one, and assumed the worst case scenario. I'm glad to be wrong.

BTW it wasn't your idea so you got the infraction for nothing and you can stop patting yourself on the back.

I was the one that crossposted the concept in the Beta forums on 8/12 based on this post.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27014-e...48/#post850606

Here is my post in the Beta forums

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Malan's Enhancement-a-palooza (8770)

So you got your infraction for asking for something to be posted in the Beta forums that had already been posted there 1 month before your infraction post.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27014-e...69/#post891745


Read the above, it wasn't Fearlezz's concept, the concept was posted way before him by Shokkina who was copying it from the Wotlk wiki forum

(if that was Fearlezz posting it originally in that forum then great, he can have the credit but I've done enough backtracking to figure this much out and not spending more time on it)

DPS per point in maelstorm weapons.
0/0: 2876dps(-)
1/5: 3144dps(+286)
2/5: 3308dps(+164)
3/5: 3459dps(+151)
4/5: 3591dps(+133)
5/5: 3692dps(+101)

816dps talent. Even last point give over 101dps.

Best dps rotation. No. You cannot make macro to do this.

lawl tyvm, I had like 10min on the comp before going to be so it was look here and post a request, knew that was lying around somewhere. But from what I've seen that is wrong, and from what I recall our required agi to hit 1% was changed when we were granted AP from agi. Perfect example is when I transfered my Shaman for the first time to Beta. He had ~32% crit on Live and ~25% crit on Beta the MOMENT I logged on the first time, no experience gains nothing, so that means it takes more, and since all of the gear I have atm is heavy AGI with little to NO +crit rating, it would mean that the agility we need to get 1% of melee crit has been raised from us also benefiting from agility in the form of attack power.

So if someone knows the NEW amount of agility we need to get 1% crit @ 70, it would be much appreciated.

It has been mentioned numerous times in this thread, but it is 40, just like rogues and hunters.

The way Koraa talked about Lava Lash, it sounded like every use will give us one stack. Wouldn't that give it priority over ES?

What gave you that impression?

I think he got confused by the way Koraa presented the skill:

- New Talent (Tier-8) - Lava Lash: You charge your off-hand weapon with lava, instantly dealing 75% off-hand Weapon damage. Damage is increased by 25% if your off-hand weapon is enchanted with Flametongue. 3 second cooldown. 4% base mana cost. (Also note: Lava Lash does Fire damage, also procs Maelstrom Weapon)

he says "procs" instead of "can proc". I think it is an error and he meant "it can proc" Maelstrom Weapon.