The use of caster weapon is the thing that most feels like a break with tradition and feel of enhancement and I hope enough Shamans/Beta testers agree so that we can lobby for making Melee weapons back into being the preferred weapon of choice.
It also feels like a failure and contradiction from Blizzards development team considering they worked a lot on making paladins using appropriate gear and then changing their gear to fit their roles. (tank in tanking gear,melee dps in melee gear)
Paladins tank now with caster weapon and it's good system. Death knights will tank with dps weapon and it's ok. If we end up using caster weapon and melee gear what is problem? We do half our damage with spells even with melee weapon. Melee gear is superior to caster gear becouse of Mental Quickness but it's only work with ap not weapon dps that is reason why caster weapons look that good. If you bitch about caster weapons then we will see nerf not buff. If caster weapon do more dps then it's also more threat/damage. If we are threat capped then it's also mean more wind shocks and that's lower our dps. Looks like fair trade.
As far as I can see on the latest talent build, Unleashed Rage is still only melee AP, whereas trueshot aura is just listed as "attack power" in general, that is, melee and ranged.
I urge some of the respected members of this community to flag this again on the beta US forums, as the EU forums basically are useless and unread it seems.
Also, make it a suggestion inside the game, as well as report it as a bug. If it already IS affecting ranged AP, it still needs to be changed in the tooltip (and a search of the thread on "trueshot" revealed no post saying this was so).
Hopefully after all this typhoon nonsense is over I can get in some real DPS tests...I picked up a couple 150ish DPS daggers from Naxx so I'll soon try live testing of slow/fast wf/ft. Hit rating is insane...wearing 348 currently on beta. 2800 AP, 20.94% crit (sigh), 4.91% haste.
Also, MW is procc'ing off specials now. Woohoo.
[23:05] <flake-prime> uninstalled steam changed password to random gibberish changed email changed that email account to random gibberish Enervate <-----When getting mad about DOTA goes too far
Just add a 'I lost my 'insert totem here', can I get a new one?' option to shaman trainers and that'll be that. Wonder why that's not the case in the first place right now, can't remember having seen any other items which just plain can not be destroyed at all.
Paladins tank now with caster weapon and it's good system. Death knights will tank with dps weapon and it's ok. If we end up using caster weapon and melee gear what is problem? We do half our damage with spells even with melee weapon. Melee gear is superior to caster gear becouse of Mental Quickness but it's only work with ap not weapon dps that is reason why caster weapons look that good. If you bitch about caster weapons then we will see nerf not buff. If caster weapon do more dps then it's also more threat/damage. If we are threat capped then it's also mean more wind shocks and that's lower our dps. Looks like fair trade.
Well, if I'm in minority then I guess the problem is NIL. But if more people feel like me that enhancement defined by melee gear is how they percieve them and how they would like roll(no pun intended) then caster weapon bias is out of place.
And while the benefit of having a caster weapon benefit all three speccs I would rather take the trade and use weapons less sought after in forms of 1hand axes and noncasting maces or daggers.
This is a pretty interesting page - SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code
[e] Hm actually reviewing that sample output there's some pretty wonky shit going on in that guy's sim, 4k dps with no wolves?
I know usually we usually use searing but since quite a large portion of our damage is now from spells would flametounge totem be more dps than searing? or our the coeffecients too low to gain any dps
Originally Posted by Mochiloc
until I got home and was trying to figure out why I looked like I had been kissing the Tin Man all morning.
Paladins tank now with caster weapon and it's good system.
Blizzard is pushing Paladins very strongly against tanking with caster weapons in LK. They are also pushing DK to tank with a two hander instead of dual wielding. They are expecting warlocks to use pets. They are even nudging rogues back towards daggers. They have certain design ideas for specs and the problem with going outside of them is they become harder to balance. They kept Paladin threat stats gimped throughout BC in large part because it was so easy for Paladins to get a massive amount of spellpower from their weapon. That won't be an issue in LK.
If a spellpower weapon is the ideal for enhancement for damage, it throws off the balance of melee and caster damage that they have balanced the class around. Now this might remain a loophole for a long time, plenty of other stuff has. But tt's in our best interest for the class to actually work the way Blizzard clearly intends, because that keeps it the most likely to remain balanced. Otherwise your gear doesn't match (mp5 anyone?) and one slight nerf here or there could have dramatic consequences.
I will also add that right now there is one LK epic weapon in game with a 1.4 speed. Virtually all the weapons are at least 1.5, and all of the caster weapons are at least 1.6 (arena weapons) and most are 1.8 (there's only two 2.5 or higher). So you might want to run the sim with speeds we'll actually be seeing. Right now, lightning knives with a caster main hand would be 1.8/1.5, not 1.4/1.4.
This is a pretty interesting page - SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code
[e] Hm actually reviewing that sample output there's some pretty wonky shit going on in that guy's sim, 4k dps with no wolves?
I don't understand the Damage Per Execute Time chart. His pie chart (and the actual raw data later on the page) show lightning shield as doing 3% of our damage... yet it's almost up there with a Curse of Doom. Did he just run the sim once, and happened to get a TON of lucky LS procs during execute range, or am I not understanding that chart at all?
Mongoose and Executioner both scale down past level 70, they should be replaced by level 80 weapon enchants.
@Rhaegal - yah I have no idea. Those might be compiled charts from lots of different runs or something, they look interesting until I realized that I could figure out how any of the charts related to each other.
By the way, there's a super nice off hand weapon (2.5, 120 dps) available from the Ebon Hold vendor that rivals the sunwell off hand for anyone who hasn't gotten that drop yet. Requires EH honored, pretty easy to get while questing in Icecrown.
There is three epic and one blue 1.4speed weapons. Also there is one 1.3 speed dagger. I runned sim with 1.6speed caster weapons those beat slower ones. Bad thing is most off these come from pvp but this is same problem in live now. What is good thing that allmoust all weapons are pretty viable now so we don't stuck inferior ones like we did at TBC.
Excluding arena weapons there is one epic 1.4 weapon and zero caster weapons below 1.8. Now the speed numbers may not matter all that much in the end, and it would truly be best if weapon speed really didn't have a significant impact, but I still think it's better to at least include in your list of numbers something that people will actually be likely to have, as opposed to just an ideal which no one will have from just raiding.
The use of caster weapon is the thing that most feels like a break with tradition and feel of enhancement and I hope enough Shamans/Beta testers agree so that we can lobby for making Melee weapons back into being the preferred weapon of choice.
It also feels like a failure and contradiction from Blizzards development team considering they worked a lot on making paladins using appropriate gear and then changing their gear to fit their roles. (tank in tanking gear,melee dps in melee gear)
Before you take a short walk off a long pier...
Remember that we will always have choices in weapons. RNG FTL. If you have a 2.6 spd 103 dps weapon and can replace it with a fast catser one, that is now an option. If you can get a slow one that is better that is an option too.
Obviously there will always be an optimal selection, and we will always gravitate to that if we are going to min-max. But if the dps differences are minimal (assuming you glyph and gem slightly differently) then that is the best of both world, as we are not comitted to either type of weapon. The DPS and stats of the wepon will be the deciding factor, not the speed. And THAT is the holy grail we have been waiting for for years.
I don't understand the Damage Per Execute Time chart. His pie chart (and the actual raw data later on the page) show lightning shield as doing 3% of our damage... yet it's almost up there with a Curse of Doom. Did he just run the sim once, and happened to get a TON of lucky LS procs during execute range, or am I not understanding that chart at all?
I might be mistaken, but it seems like another way of saying damage per cast time. Lightning shield being instant cast and having many charges (with Static Shock maxed you'd only need to refresh it every 9 charges) would explain the damage. I don't know what he's using as the cast time for instant casts though, 1sec would make it ~780 damage/orb, 1.5sec ~1170 damage/orb.
Edit: hmm..... how do I get wotlk links to show ? We did it on our own boards with a quick edit of the config file to point at the wotlk database site, but here on EJ forums i can see links that go to both wotlk.wowhead and www.wowhead
Flametongue bug is that in sim you get two flametongue procs and at live you get only one when stormstriking. But which one is bug? This isn't so big. Only one flametongue proc per 8s more or less than 50dps. Changing windfury glyph to flametongue glyph when using dual flametongue give about same dps what I dind't change. So all these sim results are valid.
I am getting ZERO flametongue procs from Stormstrike on the PTR. Can anyone corroborate that Flametongue is or is not supposed to proc off Stormstrike?
Excluding arena weapons there is one epic 1.4 weapon and zero caster weapons below 1.8. Now the speed numbers may not matter all that much in the end, and it would truly be best if weapon speed really didn't have a significant impact, but I still think it's better to at least include in your list of numbers something that people will actually be likely to have, as opposed to just an ideal which no one will have from just raiding.
I could make list including every weapon speed with every imbue combination. But then where would be 13^2^2 = 28561 combination. If there is least one right speed weapon then numbers still hold. If you want simulate more options then you have to do it yourself. [Librarian's Paper Cutter] should be par with other weapons.
I am getting ZERO flametongue procs from Stormstrike on the PTR. Can anyone corroborate that Flametongue is or is not supposed to proc off Stormstrike?
09/25/08, 8:08 AM
