tufy

Well, we ARE getting a damage buff, it's just not in elemental tree :p And I'm pretty certain that'll be nerfed eventually

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Apaine

The proc will probably not work on bosses. While attack speed debuffs in general will work - all tanks are getting -20% attack speed debufs for tanking, but I think bosses will not be allowed to slow down to a crawl. Even if it's a unreliable proc. 75% casting and melee speed reduction would make boss tanking trivial if raid decided to stack on elemental shamans (say 5 of eles instead of mages/warlocks/rogues).Simple math tells me that with 5 ele shamans casting 2 sec LB's, the buff would have 55% chance to be reapplied every 2 seconds. With buff lasting 5 seconds, 5 shamans would get over 75% uptime, and boss would spend over 50% of the fight slowed by half or more. It's just too much imho.

That said, paralisis looks like a nifty disabling talent proc for pvp and trash pve... and must take for pve just to get old LB damage back... overall underwhelming... and a compulsory 3 talent waste very high up in ele tree.

Tufy - Care to explain where is the damage buff? Not in ele tree? Are you refering to enhancement shamans by any chance? Cause they are getting substantial damage buffs... and I really mean substantial.

 

Treldonis

I am in the Beta myself and I do see the damage decrease overall. Could someone present me a way to test our dps out to see if there is a bug to gear, nerf to coeficients or perhaps a bug to our talents?

I will try to run some tests and post here.

Also when I hit 75 on Beta, if there is another shaman on Northrend Alliance side, we can try out the Flame Shock crit theory(use only our own or any FS).

My character is Maximilian as well on the Beta test.

 

Aeverius

I believe he means the MD/MQ build, which requires an obscene amount of points in Enhancement but gives a sizable spellpower boost.

Improved Lay on Hands is really fucking good:

 

Kaideq

I have been slacking and am only lvl 72, but some deslack over the next 2 days should bring me up to 75 quickly, name is Starchild.

The problem with the flame shock eating atm is that if you have enhancement shamans in the raid and you do not coordinate your flame shock eating you might miss out on the auto crit for the MB.

The only reason we would be seeing any increase in dps in WOTLK as it is now is us leeching the debuff from Moonkin druids, since we still are the only curse-less class.
Not scaling our damage and pumping us with PVP talents just because Moonkins get a + nature damage talent seems quite poopy.
Since I pvp a lot , I would not extremely mind, but it seems a rather silly way to "fix" things.

Starchild Spacegoat Shaman in Beta

 

Daidalos

The issue is with the LB coef as I outlined here: Elemental Wotlk Talents discussion There are some gear issues from what I have heard but it mostly seems like dmg is approx the same as on live however you have to spend more points to get to that damage level. IF you would like to increase the sample size and do similar tests that could be beneficial.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

tufy

That's what I ment, yes.

One thing I haven't seen anyone discuss yet: Elemental Oath currently procs on heal crits and works on heals as well. As such, the synergy with holy paladins could be pretty cool, as we reduce mana cost and increase crit heals, while they stack crit to save mana.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Treldonis

What's the spec that you are using? I am using a 52/0/10(working up to 52/0/19) so far and I am nowhere near the damage I have been before.

 

Ryuenjin

CoE does affect nature now. Was nicely surprised last night in UK.

Losing 30 or so spell damage on our spell damage totem, as well as it sharing our ToW hurts too.

 

Kaideq

Just minus NA res, no added nature damage.




from wowhead:

Curse of the Elements Rank 4
260 Mana 30 yd range
Instant cast
Curses the target for 5 min, reducing Arcane, Fire, Frost, and Shadow resistances by 88 and increasing Arcane, Fire, Frost, and Shadow damage taken by 10%. Only one Curse per Warlock can be active on any one target.

Curse of the Elements - Spell - World of Warcraft

Starchild Spacegoat Shaman in Beta

 

Roywyn

The WotLK database lists Nature in both parts of the spell aura though, resistance and damage:
Curse of the Elements - Spell - World of Warcraft
Not on the tooltip, but when you click the link for the spell effects.

Took them long enough

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Graze

Edit: Sorry for double post.

I'm a shaman, a conduit of the ancient forces of nature. A master of the elements, except fire, water or earth really... nor do I have any REAL control of nature. But I do hurl bolts of lightning!

 

Graze

That is amazing indeed.
Now it's just funny how a "pure" dps class increase MY damage more than I increase theirs. HA! Who's the support class now?

(1010 + (2.0/3.5) * 2000) * 1.51 = 3250.81 Dmg per cast. Critts for 200%

LaB is 3250.81 + (3250.81 * 1.06 * 1) = 6696.67

6696.67 / 2 = 3348.33 DPS "per cast"

LB DPS Assuming only Nature's Fury, CotE and Misery debuffs active.
((765 + (2.5/3.5) * 2000) * 1.26) * 1.1 = 3040.29 Damage per cast. Critts for 200%

3040.29 + (3040.29 * 1.06 * 0.38) = 4264.92
4264.91 / 2 = 2132.45 DPS "per cast".

4x LB + LaB = 2375.63 DPS
infinite x LB = 2132.45 DPS

This is my math from before, plus the CoTE and EO changes. Assuming 2000 spellpower, 0% spell haste and 25% critt from gear and 100% critt rate for Lava Burst.

Disclaimer: This assumes we can consume another shamans flame shock, which we can't.
Preliminary numbers with Paralysis talent accounts for 2326.89 DPS from pure LB spam. vs. 2531.18 with a 4x LB + LaB rotation.

I'm a shaman, a conduit of the ancient forces of nature. A master of the elements, except fire, water or earth really... nor do I have any REAL control of nature. But I do hurl bolts of lightning!

 

• Binkenstein

Quick co-efficient comparison for 2.4.3 and WotLK beta.

Assuming 5/5 Concussion, a Moonkins 6% nature/arcane debuff, 5% from Misery, and 10% from CoE we get:

2.4.3 = 1.018 damage + 894
WotLK = 1.007 damage + 983

The break even point is 89/0.011 or 8090 spelldamage (should get used to calling it spellpower), so overall the co-efficient "change" back to the normal mechanics, in addition to the Curse of Elements change, is a slight buff.

 

tufy

Graze, Wrath of Air. We always give and get 10% haste now.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Treldonis

Just a minor update. Removing spell damage components including the totem does decrease your damage overall(removed all my non-set pieces). This doesn't seem to go with the theory that there is an unknown cap that will prevent further spell damage from being used. Also putting talent points into paralysis does not affect your damage to Lightning or Chain Lightning spells. DPS was virtually the same with and without.

Frustrating really since I really am not certain how this should be presented to Blizz as a defect.

 

Paladia

Difficult to call it a buff when the only time you break even is in a min/maxed raid environment, for PvP and other content it is a major nerf unless they fix it.

 

tufy

There is no such cap.

They are affected. In my tests (removed all proc chances and abilities save LO, which wasn't included in numbers), the average damage for LB without paralysis was 1515 (lowest damage was 1472, highest was 1558), while the average damage with it was around 1600 (lowest 1558, highest 1627). Of course, that's still only 6% bonus, not 10% as it should be, but I guess it could be just my luck.

One more thing: LB rank 13 gives 20 damage more and costs 2x the mana. I mean, come on, really, that's beyond silly. Same for CL, Frost Shock, Lesser Healing Wave and so on. Additionally, I've ran Utgarde Keep and found myself surprisingly low on mana in that run, even with old spell ranks.The reason could be that I don't have 5% crit from restoration, coupled with new wrath of air and higher mob health. This got me thinking - if we will have mana issues, is Blizzard trying to force us to use more mp5, thus using same gear as restoration shamans?

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Zanadarn

While I find the relative lack of damage increasing talents a bit worrying, I think that there's a more general reason for this. Strictly speaking, we're excellent DPSers currently. Now I don't have much SWP experience, hell, I haven't even seen Kalec die yet, but at least at Tier 6 level we can be pretty competitive when it comes to damage done. Personally, I've always maintained that the only thing holding elemental back from always being on top is the lack of synergy (for us that is, not towards others). We don't get Shadow Weaving, Improved Scorch, Curse of Elements and so forth. Those percentages are something we have no way of making up.

However, if you look at Wotlk so far, we get:

1. Moonkin 45 point talent (6%) (assuming moonkin present, and I suspect we'll be seeing more of those soon).
2. CoE (10%).
3. Imrpoved SS (assuming enhancement shaman present) (20%).
4. Lavaburst is fire.

Yes, we don't seem to be getting that much in the way of more damage from talents, but we're getting the synergy we always lacked.

Yes, this has it's downsides, like having to rely more on other classes being there, we've been an extremely independent class so far, but there's upsides too, I believe this will truly make us on par with all the 'pure' DPS classes.

 

• Binkenstein

Assuming no Moonkin and no Shadow Priest, the break even point is roughly 862 spellpower.
Remember that this is just looking at Concussion, Misery, Curse of Elements and that new Moonkin debuff.

So while having the co-efficient returned to normal mechanics, it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

Also, the comparison was assuming Paralysis was affecting both cases, and is a 1.1 multiplier of the spell co-efficient, rather than a straight 10% gain.
1.1 multiplier gives the WotLK co-eff as 0.7854 vs TBC 0.792, if additive WotLK is 0.814, which is obviously more than currently.

 

Kaideq

I've been running around testing my r13 LB and I am not getting a damage increase from it, even a damage decrease over a period of 2 hours this evening swapping in between.
Maybe I got RNG'ed a lot, but I severly doubt that. I tried the same with LHW, got the normal expected increase on that.

As it is now, shamans at entry level 80 raid gear won't be able to spam their max rank lightning bolt, even with a shadow priest , in longer duration fights assuming 150% stats compared to SWP gear. ( Guestimate on the 150 )

Either int is going to become the new stamina on lvl 80 or there will need to be some serious tweaking done on the mana cost of CL,LB and shocks.

Starchild Spacegoat Shaman in Beta

 

• Binkenstein

That's a bug, to do with how the new down ranking penalties work

 

tufy

It's a mana cost increase across the board, not just for shamans. However, as I said, with Nath being level 74 now, I continue using rank 12, because it deals 94% of rank 13's base damage at 54% of the mana cost. There's simply no reason not to do so right now.

If Blizzard IS trying to force us into mp5 (and thus, same gear as resto shammies), they'll need to lift the mana costs on old ranks (at least 12) as well. This could also be a forseeable problem for MD+MQ build, as it has lower crit rate and less mana saving than 52/0/19.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.

 

Anksunamun

I think that every enhancement shaman would use his new dps combo. Maelstrom now reduces the casting speed of the next spell (EVERY spell) by 100% after 5 melee crits so they will use SS, ES, FS and an instant LaB will anyway close the dps circle

That's pretty nice but can I ask you to check if this spell is applied to party members only? Same question for ToW.
We should also understand if we can use the slowing effect from paralisys on bosses or if we can at least have a minor effect like the spell "slow" in the mage's arcane tree
If it has already been said, forgive me, just missed it

 

tufy

The only totems currently raid-wide are Healing Stream and Mana Spring. The rest wasn't changed yet. Elemental Oath is also broken and currently only applies to shaman, not to anyone else.

It's likely that it won't be useable in raids, but paralyze isn't fully in game yet.

Creativity requires the courage to let go of certainties.