Should be easy enough to do a quick comparison to see if the talent is viable or not.
Water Shield at L80 : 100Mp5 passive, 400 mana per globe popped
Talent : Improved Shields 3/3 (460 mana per pop)
Talent : Improved Water Shield 3/3 (100% chance of popping a globe when you crit on a HW or LHW)
Glyph : Water Shield (3 extra charges)
I'll stick with the basic version to start with, no talent improvements or glyphs except the Improved Water Shield talent.
Our passive Mp5 stays up until the last globe is popped, so the actual time it takes to consume the globes doesn't matter. It doesn't affect our passive Mp5.
Once our 3 globes are consumed, we've gained 1200 mana, but we are now in a situation where we're losing 100Mp5 until we can recast. So you'd need 12x5 = 60 seconds of downtime on your Water Shield before it works out as a net mana loss.
Add in Improved Shields and we're up to 1380 mana gained before we lose our passive Mp5, which is worth 13.8x5 = 69 seconds of downtime before we're into loss territory.
Add in our Water Shield glyph and now we're at 460x6 = 2760 mana gained, so 27.6 x 5 = 138 seconds, over two minutes during which we can refresh our Water Shield and still have a net gain of mana.
Now there's always the opportunity cost of 3 talent points in Resto that you can spend elsewhere, but assuming you can refresh your Water Shield within 10 seconds of the last globe being popped you'll still see a net gain of 1000 mana over whatever timeframe it takes you to score 3 crits on LWH and HW.
Personally I think it looks pretty good, unless I'm missing something. Because the passive Mp5 works at full strength as long as we've got 1 globe left, using up spare globes is always going to be a net gain provided you can refresh your shield during a quiet moment.
Obviously if you never LHW/HW or if you have a lousy crit, that gain might take such a long time to materialise that you won't find it worthwhile, but that's easy enough to work out once you see your crit rate and get a feel for what kind of heals you're throwing under the new setup.
edit : In fact, lets try that out. Assuming non stop casting (which we don't do, but it's a good starting point)
Assuming a 33% crit rate :
Healing Wave : 9 casts will use up all 3 globes, thats 1200 mana in 9x2.5=22.5 seconds = 53Mp5 extra
Lesser Healing Wave : 9 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 9x1.5=13.5 seconds = 89Mp5 extra
Assuming a tricked out 50% crit rate :
Healing Wave : 6 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 6x2.5=15 seconds = 80Mp5 extra
Lesser Healing Wave : 6 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 6x1.5 seconds = 133Mp5
Or to put it another way, assuming you can keep your shield refreshed or topped up, this talent will give you 1.6Mp5 for every 1% crit you have using Healing Wave, or 2.7Mp5 for every 1% crit you have using Lesser Healing Wave, both numbers are top end figures assuming you chain-cast, and also that figure will scale up with Spell Haste.
So this talent potentially turns both Crit and Spell Haste into Mp5 gains if your casting style meshes with using HW and LHW in any reasonable frequency.
Last edited by Kilted Raven : 09/07/08 at 7:45 AM.
First, someone posted that the glyph is only 1 charge now.
Your HW/LHW calculations assume spamming HW/LHW. Assuming they dont change the talents, we will be doing CH/3xHW to boost the HPS.
Ex:
7 charges
33% crit
~ 22 casts to get rid of the buffs
That would equal 7 rotations, plus 1 CH and 1 HW
(7.75*7)+2.5+1.75=58.5 seconds....lets call it 1 minute for easy math.
That gives up ~47 mp5, plus the passive bonus which is another 100. (assuming no raid damage). If there is raid damage you obviously end up with more, but also use more GCD's refreshing.
1 GCD per minute refreshing is not horrible, and if you spec into imp shields you end up with close too 54 mp5. I still think the fact that this does nto scale is a negative for us further into LK 25 mans, but I suppose for starters its not bad.
Originally Posted by Kilted Raven
Assuming a 33% crit rate :
Healing Wave : 9 casts will use up all 3 globes, thats 1200 mana in 9x2.5=22.5 seconds = 53Mp5 extra
Lesser Healing Wave : 9 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 9x1.5=13.5 seconds = 89Mp5 extra
Assuming a tricked out 50% crit rate :
Healing Wave : 6 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 6x2.5=15 seconds = 80Mp5 extra
Lesser Healing Wave : 6 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 6x1.5 seconds = 133Mp5
Or to put it another way, assuming you can keep your shield refreshed or topped up, this talent will give you 1.6Mp5 for every 1% crit you have using Healing Wave, or 2.7Mp5 for every 1% crit you have using Lesser Healing Wave, both numbers are top end figures assuming you chain-cast, and also that figure will scale up with Spell Haste.
So this talent potentially turns both Crit and Spell Haste into Mp5 gains if your casting style meshes with using HW and LHW in any reasonable frequency.
First, someone posted that the glyph is only 1 charge now.
My understanding of that second wave of glyph information was that those were the "minor" glyphs. Across all the classes they were mostly very minor buffs or cosmetic type buffs (black/white ghost wolf, 1x extra WS orb, no more reagent for water breathing, etc) while the first wave of glyphs were much more powerful (extra chain heal target, 20% more heal from LHW if you have ES on target, etc). They are even named in such a way as to indicate that they are probably the major and then the minor glyphs (Glyph Water Shield 01). This charge on crit thing will definitely be great if you can get the +3 charge and +1 charge glyphs together - sounds like less so with just +1.
Since the latest build, the water shield glyph increases the passive mana regeneration by 30% on water shield, making it 130 mp5.
So the 3 charge glyph was swapped and they put a minor WS glyph with 1 in its place? Works for me...looks like those are going to be mandatory! If you compare, 30 mp5 is worth 8 1/2 pure mp5 gems....thats is pretty damn awesome. If you combine those with the 15% more on orbs and the extra orb glyph, you have a pretty decent setup. Not exactly the way I would have preferred but it is a good deal none the less.
30% more Mp5 from WS isn’t bad, but that still leaves us with the GCD problem of having to recast WS all the time, imagine a fight with splash damage that triggers WS and IWS, you'll be casting a WD every few seconds, a lot of mana gained but massive loss of HPS.
IWS should just get the same as static shock.
About the WotLK itemisation, very little items with haste and crit, almost looks like you have to choose between those 2. Now with all the raid buffs giving haste and Tidal Waves, I doubt we'll need much haste (maybe for a 0/28/43 build but they don’t want crit anyway) so the crit/mpt gear doesn't look to bad.
30% more Mp5 from WS isn’t bad, but that still leaves us with the GCD problem of having to recast WS all the time, imagine a fight with splash damage that triggers WS and IWS, you'll be casting a WD every few seconds, a lot of mana gained but massive loss of HPS.
IWS should just get the same as static shock.
About the WotLK itemisation, very little items with haste and crit, almost looks like you have to choose between those 2. Now with all the raid buffs giving haste and Tidal Waves, I doubt we'll need much haste (maybe for a 0/28/43 build but they don’t want crit anyway) so the crit/mpt gear doesn't look to bad.
Just to note, you don't Have to refresh WS every time it goes down. If it is proccing all the time, you are gaining much more mana than from the passive 100mp5, so you can slack off on the recasting. That is the point of the whole post a couple up.
Just to note, you don't Have to refresh WS every time it goes down. If it is proccing all the time, you are gaining much more mana than from the passive 100mp5, so you can slack off on the recasting. That is the point of the whole post a couple up.
It's nice and does help with the current mana problems. Like Neg to an extent, I still feel that Resto Shamans have too much micromanagement though to have to keep track of re-applying WS. In a lot of scenarios, you simply cannot afford the GCD to re-apply it which is a burden and should be looked at carefully.
If they want shamans to be viable tank healers, they really have to work on the GCD losses and the bad spell rotation. For tank healing you need a steady stream of heals landing, loosing GCDs all the time to totems or shields simply doesn't work, nor does casting a CH every 3 HWs, thats 3,5 second between the HWs where only a weak CH lands on the tank, way to risky.
If they want shamans to be viable tank healers, they really have to work on the GCD losses and the bad spell rotation. For tank healing you need a steady stream of heals landing, loosing GCDs all the time to totems or shields simply doesn't work, nor does casting a CH every 3 HWs, thats 3,5 second between the HWs where only a weak CH lands on the tank, way to risky.
That would be for viable lvl70 tankhealing.
Things change, apparently. With the removal of downranking, raw spam and non-stop HPS input on the tank would mean the fights cannot be much longer than 2-3 minutes tops, since you can't chaindrink pots anymore either.
So it seems they're returning to the heal-after-damage setup from early pre-TBC raiding. Heal reflexively after damage has been dealt, and before it will be dealt again.
SQUEAK.
-- (The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
That would be for viable lvl70 tankhealing.
Things change, apparently. With the removal of downranking, raw spam and non-stop HPS input on the tank would mean the fights cannot be much longer than 2-3 minutes tops, since you can't chaindrink pots anymore either.
So it seems they're returning to the heal-after-damage setup from early pre-TBC raiding. Heal reflexively after damage has been dealt, and before it will be dealt again.
For splash damage that it true, pre-TBC there was reaction healing, but not for tank healing. Pre-TBC tank healing was probably even more of a spamfest then it is these days, with 10-15 healers landing tons of heals.
heal-after-damage is just not possible for tanks, unless abilites like spirit link work, that would be the end of tank-healing as we know it.
For splash damage that it true, pre-TBC there was reaction healing, but not for tank healing. Pre-TBC tank healing was probably even more of a spamfest then it is these days, with 10-15 healers landing tons of heals.
heal-after-damage is just not possible for tanks, unless abilites like spirit link work, that would be the end of tank-healing as we know it.
From my experience with Pre-TBC healing, most of the fights weren't so much reaction healing as cast-and-cancel. You'd constantly spam heals but if the tank hadn't taken any damage you'd cancel and start casting again to maximize your time outside of the FSR. This lead to mods that would auto-cancel on overheals, but they were disabled at some point. I see WOTLK healing as going back to that model (with some of the unpredictability removed due to stacking HoTs which weren't available pre-TBC).
I keep coming back to the talent calculator and I keep struggling with deciding what to sacrifice. I'm not worried about my spec at level 80. There are several options for building a viable level 80 spec, with all the nice choices available, and by the time we're all level 80 on live servers we'll have a solid understanding of what works best for what environments. What I'm finding difficult is deciding how to spec with the new talents for raiding at level 70. As I kick around ideas, here's my current thought (criticism welcome & encouraged):
From my experience with Pre-TBC healing, most of the fights weren't so much reaction healing as cast-and-cancel. You'd constantly spam heals but if the tank hadn't taken any damage you'd cancel and start casting again to maximize your time outside of the FSR. This lead to mods that would auto-cancel on overheals, but they were disabled at some point. I see WOTLK healing as going back to that model (with some of the unpredictability removed due to stacking HoTs which weren't available pre-TBC).
Note that a difference was made between tank healing and raid healing. Tank healing was, is and will always be pre-healing (aka spamage). Splash damage used to be reactionary (and very little) where it also turned into pre-healing in a lot of cases.
If mana is really becoming an issue, then pre-healing could be limited (for splash damage) and maybe we'll see more reactionary healing again.
Should be easy enough to do a quick comparison to see if the talent is viable or not.
Water Shield at L80 : 100Mp5 passive, 400 mana per globe popped
Talent : Improved Shields 3/3 (460 mana per pop)
Talent : Improved Water Shield 3/3 (100% chance of popping a globe when you crit on a HW or LHW)
Glyph : Water Shield (3 extra charges)
I'll stick with the basic version to start with, no talent improvements or glyphs except the Improved Water Shield talent.
Our passive Mp5 stays up until the last globe is popped, so the actual time it takes to consume the globes doesn't matter. It doesn't affect our passive Mp5.
Once our 3 globes are consumed, we've gained 1200 mana, but we are now in a situation where we're losing 100Mp5 until we can recast. So you'd need 12x5 = 60 seconds of downtime on your Water Shield before it works out as a net mana loss.
You're going at this the wrong way in my opinion.
As you say yourself, you keep the manareg until the last globe disappears. This means all the prior globes aren't important for the calculation. I.e. we're down to 4*5sec of downtime (plus talents).
Factoring in that the consumption of the globes comes from two sources, both of which are random and/or even external. This means staying at 1 globe is actually bad; you should refresh the shield as fast as possible when you're at lower than the maximum and have a spare gcd. While you thus "throw away" the free mana from some globes, you get a chance for more free mana later on at zero cost (except for the GCD) and you get the chance at not losing the shield. Border case could be if you could get OO5SR if not casting the water shield (if this puts you in the 5SR).
The big problem is obviously having spare GCDs and knowing when it's spare.
Originally Posted by Kilted Raven
Personally I think it looks pretty good, unless I'm missing something. Because the passive Mp5 works at full strength as long as we've got 1 globe left, using up spare globes is always going to be a net gain provided you can refresh your shield during a quiet moment.
Obviously if you never LHW/HW or if you have a lousy crit, that gain might take such a long time to materialise that you won't find it worthwhile, but that's easy enough to work out once you see your crit rate and get a feel for what kind of heals you're throwing under the new setup.
edit : In fact, lets try that out. Assuming non stop casting (which we don't do, but it's a good starting point)
Assuming a 33% crit rate :
Healing Wave : 9 casts will use up all 3 globes, thats 1200 mana in 9x2.5=22.5 seconds = 53Mp5 extra
Lesser Healing Wave : 9 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 9x1.5=13.5 seconds = 89Mp5 extra
Assuming a tricked out 50% crit rate :
Healing Wave : 6 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 6x2.5=15 seconds = 80Mp5 extra
Lesser Healing Wave : 6 casts will use up all 3 globes, that's 1200 mana in 6x1.5 seconds = 133Mp5
Or to put it another way, assuming you can keep your shield refreshed or topped up, this talent will give you 1.6Mp5 for every 1% crit you have using Healing Wave, or 2.7Mp5 for every 1% crit you have using Lesser Healing Wave, both numbers are top end figures assuming you chain-cast, and also that figure will scale up with Spell Haste.
So this talent potentially turns both Crit and Spell Haste into Mp5 gains if your casting style meshes with using HW and LHW in any reasonable frequency.
Hmm. Crit is random. I.e. 33% chance to crit is not equal to "after 3 casts I have crit once". Witness crit streaks and the opposite.
"Chance to get a crit in n casts" should be something along the lines of 1 - (1 - p)^n * where p is the critchance and n is the number of casts. Thus you get only about a 70% chance to have a crit in 3 casts (if my math skills haven't totally left me).
For 50% crit you thus get 87.5% to have crit after 3 casts.
* this doesn't seem completely correct also (missing that you can have multiple crits I guess), but is certainly nearer to the truth. Should be along the lines of flurry uptime calculations I think.
As you say yourself, you keep the manareg until the last globe disappears. This means all the prior globes aren't important for the calculation. I.e. we're down to 4*5sec of downtime (plus talents).
Factoring in that the consumption of the globes comes from two sources, both of which are random and/or even external. This means staying at 1 globe is actually bad; you should refresh the shield as fast as possible when you're at lower than the maximum and have a spare gcd. While you thus "throw away" the free mana from some globes, you get a chance for more free mana later on at zero cost (except for the GCD) and you get the chance at not losing the shield. Border case could be if you could get OO5SR if not casting the water shield (if this puts you in the 5SR).
The big problem is obviously having spare GCDs and knowing when it's spare.
Hmm. Crit is random. I.e. 33% chance to crit is not equal to "after 3 casts I have crit once". Witness crit streaks and the opposite.
"Chance to get a crit in n casts" should be something along the lines of 1 - (1 - p)^n * where p is the critchance and n is the number of casts. Thus you get only about a 70% chance to have a crit in 3 casts (if my math skills haven't totally left me).
For 50% crit you thus get 87.5% to have crit after 3 casts.
* this doesn't seem completely correct also (missing that you can have multiple crits I guess), but is certainly nearer to the truth. Should be along the lines of flurry uptime calculations I think.
Obviously this is not pwerfect, but over a 5-10 minute fight you will have to refresh (read use GCD) Ws the same number of times or close to it (RNG FTL). And as I satated, my calc did not take into account incomign dmg which may eat orbs very quickly as well.
I guess we wont see the results of this until 3.0, and then Ill get a better feel.
Edit: Also, Ws does not put you into the 5SR because it costs 0 mana.
I see what you're saying, but I guess my calculation is mainly trying to help address the point that was brought up on the last page, which is that having a talent that consumes WS globes is not worthwhile because of the downtime on WS caused by globes being eaten up at a fast rate.
So all three globes are relevant to that question, the comparison being :
a) Amount of mana gained by having this talent (i.e. all your WS globes being popped on crits)
vs
b) Amount of mana lost by downtime on Water Shield (because your globes are gone and you can't recast as you're busy healing)
The gain from having the talent is such that even if you did lose out on refreshing Water Shield for up to 10 seconds at a time, you'd still make a net gain of 1000 mana with the talent in place. The more subjective bit is after that, which is 'How long does it take to get that 1000 mana?', and as you rightly state that's dependent on crit rates and spell rotations.
And I'd say that 10 seconds of Water Shield downtime between casts is being very generous, I doubt most of us leave it down for more than a second or two on average because we refresh proactively when we have time if it's down a charge or two.
So I hope I've answered the question on the last page of 'Does this talent provide a reasonable mana gain?', and that the answer is yes.
Now we can look closer at the second question is how much Mp5 are these talent points worth, which is the more interesting part.
Yes, and "expected number of crits in n casts" is np. So, with 33% crit, we expect to get 3 crits in 9 casts, as stated.
This is certainly true. However the question is which one we should look at in this context. While for DPS stuff like this can certainly go in direction of the expected value, I'd argue that healing is most times a case of here and now, rather than over a longer time (see discussions about spellhaste in healing, which boils down to: my heal will arrive earlier).
Originally Posted by Sprout
Obviously this is not pwerfect, but over a 5-10 minute fight you will have to refresh (read use GCD) Ws the same number of times or close to it (RNG FTL). And as I satated, my calc did not take into account incomign dmg which may eat orbs very quickly as well.
I guess we wont see the results of this until 3.0, and then Ill get a better feel.
As stated above, I'm not sure if long-turn statistics are really relevant. My gut feeling goes like this:
- if we can get more globes, the value of this goes up (longer time till 1 globe/less refreshing needed). Not in at 70.
- depending on fights or rather the pulse of the raid damage, this may be bad or good. All fights where I now already run into trouble keeping WS up (mostly because I'm locked from having to heal through), will get worse on the upkeep (Kalec dragon-side, Twins reverse in P1). Some fights it won't matter as it currently is (i.e. on Brut I spam CH anyway, might be the same for Twins actually). Fights with an easy upkeep on WS will get a bit worse (e.g. Illidan).
- for PVP I think it's bad: while you get the mana, you loose the protection of other buffs from the water shield faster. PLus you'll lose more GCDs.
I think for 3.0 the real question will be how much our healing style will really change (will we really go for Tidal Waves + Ancestral Awakening? Who will be doing raid healing then?). If we're still using brainheal all the time in a raid, the points will be wasted. Because if you want to get deep into resto you'll have to be careful of your points.
For leveling it will be mostly moot anyway, except if we really get dual spec and then it should be nearly the same to 3.0 I think.
For instances/heroics at 80 it will be really nice, because you'll be using less CH there and more HW/LHW. Same at 70 actually.
For raiding at 80, it will be externally a question of the encounters (i.e. how much globes get consumed from damage), gear (how much crit) and raid composition. It certainly doesn't look to bad at the moment though.
I agree that the real question is how much TW/AA will be used compared to chain heal.
CH:
Advantages- 3 (maybe 4 with glyph) targets; very smart taregt s selection; 3x crit chances; very mana efficient; scales very well with haste; not as effected by downrank nerfs
disadvantages- Smaller jump radius; less hps than Ch/3xHW combo, does not scale with crit and +heal as well as TW/AA
TW/AA
Advantages- scales very well with crit; large increase in HPS; AA has a MUCH larger jump radius
Disadvantages- issues with downrank nerfs (stop casting is a double penalty); not as mana efficient; less targets; additional targets only on crit
To me I think both will have their place. The key being that with TW the increased HPS will always be available in needed. We may not ALWAYS use the CH/3xHW rotation, but for oh crap moments having 3 sub-1.75 sec (with haste) HW in my pocket is awefully nice.
In regards to the globes, you may very well be right, I also have a hard time finding free GCD's in heal spam fests (I hate think what it will be like post 3.0 when I cant downrank and only use 1 pot). If push came to shove I would prefer more globes to more passive mp5 for that reason. But at least the additional mp5 will help when the WS IS up...
TW/AA ... Disadvantages- .... not as mana efficient;
Just to explore that, math time!
Chain heal rank 5 is 19% base, LHW is 15%, and HW is 25%. For the sake of argument let's assume that chain heal gets three targets, and all spells crit. Also, I will include estimated values for the as yet not made (or even suggested, i might add) lvl 80 max rank CH based on patterns for max rank LHW and HW, which is a base increase of +50%.
At 3000 healing (roughly 1500 SP), crit is +50%**, Purification and improved CH included
LHW hits for (1720+(3000x1.5/3.5))x1.1 = 3306; Crit = 4959
HW hits for (3250+(3000x3/3.5))x1.1= 6403 ; Crit = 1.5x6403 = 9604
CHr5 1st target hits for (884+(3000x2.5/3.5))x(1+.2+.1)= 3943 ; All 3 crits = 3943x1.75x1.5 = 10350
CHrMax 1st target hits for (1326+(3000x2.5/3.5))x(1+.2+.1)= 4509 ; All 3 crits = 4509x1.75x1.5 = 11836
So, with Ancestral awakening
LHW crit yields 4959x1.6 = 7935
HW crit yields.. 9604x1.6 = 15366
So the heal/%base on crit is....
CHr5 = 544
CHrMax = 623
HW = 614
LHW = 529
To figure out the average HPM including non-crits, factor in the crit%. I'm going to take a giant leap and say it will be 20% on average (I actually think it will be more like 30% with talents).
(Heal) + (Heal x CritDamageFactor x ChanceToCrit) = Heal x 1.1
but wait! The CritDmgFactor is different with AA!! While it is normally 50%, you must add 60% of that total! So for LHW and HW it's actually
(Heal) + (Heal x CritDamageFactor x ChanceToCrit x 1.6) = Heal x (1+(.5 x .2 x 1.6)) = Heal x 1.16
So with all that, the average heals...
LHW = 3306x1.16 = 3835
HW = 6403x1.16 = 7427
CHr5 = 3943x1.75x1.1 = 7594 (4337 for 1st hit only)
CHrMax = 4509x1.75x1.1 = 8679 (4960 for 1st hit only)
So as you can see, the quoted statement rings true, but only if Chain Heal hits more than one target, even for LHW! It turns out that as you add crit, 3-hit-CH increases by the same amount of HealPerMana as HW. Even so, I would imagine that creative usage of Tidal Force will esssentially make the most effective healing strategies to include a much larger % of LHW and HW.
I was on the beta yesterday and was doing the 10 man Naxx. While shaman's single target heals have been buffed beyond belief, Chain Heal Spam is simply not viable anymore. At least not in the gear provided for premades. I tried healing with Chain Heal and at a cost of 800 mana per cast, the HPS is just not enough to keep people up. It is now situational for raid healing. I adjusted my spec and geared more towards crit and found that the AA/TW is in fact very efficient and effective.
Obviously this is my experience, but I'm not interested in being a tank healer, that's why I rolled a shaman. I love PvP so I'll stay resto for PvP(since we could potentially be the best small arena healers in the game), but if I decide to raid, w/o massive changes to chain heal and/or current shaman mechanics, I will be speccing Enhancement for PvE.
I was on the beta yesterday and was doing the 10 man Naxx. While shaman's single target heals have been buffed beyond belief, Chain Heal Spam is simply not viable anymore. At least not in the gear provided for premades. I tried healing with Chain Heal and at a cost of 800 mana per cast, the HPS is just not enough to keep people up. It is now situational for raid healing. I adjusted my spec and geared more towards crit and found that the AA/TW is in fact very efficient and effective.
Obviously this is my experience, but I'm not interested in being a tank healer, that's why I rolled a shaman. I love PvP so I'll stay resto for PvP(since we could potentially be the best small arena healers in the game), but if I decide to raid, w/o massive changes to chain heal and/or current shaman mechanics, I will be speccing Enhancement for PvE.
thanks for the input, its good to have someone from the beta who is raiding in the thread. I do have a few questions
1) Is SL working yet? If not, do you think it will affect our healing rotations alot? If so, did it affect your rotations?
2) How difficult was it to keep up WS.
3) Did you have the WS glyphs?
4) do you think 25 man raiding would be different for shaman roles?
5) Do you think a hypothetcal CH rank 6 would make a difference in the viability of CH?
A couple of naxx questions
1) Were the encounters similar to Naxx Pre-BC?
2) How was raid damage, movement, etc. Things that are issues for shaman
3) How far did you guys get?
Chain heal rank 5 is 19% base, LHW is 15%, and HW is 25%. For the sake of argument let's assume that chain heal gets three targets, and all spells crit. Also, I will include estimated values for the as yet not made (or even suggested, i might add) lvl 80 max rank CH based on patterns for max rank LHW and HW, which is a base increase of +50%.
At 3000 healing (roughly 1500 SP), crit is +50%**, Purification and improved CH included
LHW hits for (1720+(3000x1.5/3.5))x1.1 = 3306; Crit = 4959
HW hits for (3250+(3000x3/3.5))x1.1= 6403 ; Crit = 1.5x6403 = 9604
CHr5 1st target hits for (884+(3000x2.5/3.5))x(1+.2+.1)= 3943 ; All 3 crits = 3943x1.75x1.5 = 10350
CHrMax 1st target hits for (1326+(3000x2.5/3.5))x(1+.2+.1)= 4509 ; All 3 crits = 4509x1.75x1.5 = 11836
So, with Ancestral awakening
LHW crit yields 4959x1.6 = 7935
HW crit yields.. 9604x1.6 = 15366
So the heal/%base on crit is....
CHr5 = 544
CHrMax = 623
HW = 614
LHW = 529
To figure out the average HPM including non-crits, factor in the crit%. I'm going to take a giant leap and say it will be 20% on average (I actually think it will be more like 30% with talents).
(Heal) + (Heal x CritDamageFactor x ChanceToCrit) = Heal x 1.1
but wait! The CritDmgFactor is different with AA!! While it is normally 50%, you must add 60% of that total! So for LHW and HW it's actually
(Heal) + (Heal x CritDamageFactor x ChanceToCrit x 1.6) = Heal x (1+(.5 x .2 x 1.6)) = Heal x 1.16
So with all that, the average heals...
LHW = 3306x1.16 = 3835
HW = 6403x1.16 = 7427
CHr5 = 3943x1.75x1.1 = 7594 (4337 for 1st hit only)
CHrMax = 4509x1.75x1.1 = 8679 (4960 for 1st hit only)
So as you can see, the quoted statement rings true, but only if Chain Heal hits more than one target, even for LHW! It turns out that as you add crit, 3-hit-CH increases by the same amount of HealPerMana as HW. Even so, I would imagine that creative usage of Tidal Force will esssentially make the most effective healing strategies to include a much larger % of LHW and HW.
Im not arguing with your numbers, the thought behind my statement was centered around the fact that with the downranking nerf you are going to waste alot of mana in overhealing if you are raid healing with a CH/HWx3 rotation. I just dont see any way around it. Fenzters post above makes me think we are going to be the new pallies, stuck in MT healing roles forever. Not a hotrrible thing, but like him I really do relish the raid healing role.
09/07/08, 1:38 PM
Similar Threads
