I dont think such an rotation will work. Healing is not like DPS where you cast spells on one target. Normaly you watch 25 health bars and make an decision after each cast where your next cast goes. Additionaly, there are 5-8 other healers whith their own minds. I dont think you can heal with such an fixed rotation. Healing must be adapted which is the opposite of an "rotation".

I had my second SWP raid with the new talents last night and I can't believe what a difference the changes have made to the class - it's like playing a different character entirely.

Obviously it's fight dependent - Twins is still just mindless CH spam but fights like KJ or Felmyst shine for Riptide - so much so that already I'm wondering how we managed without a HoT before!

I think a lot of people have written off riptide because we're used to the situation where any hots on the raid are just overwritten by manic CH spam. Now we can't downrank and mana is actually an issue, I'm finding myself having to be far more selective about how I heal and have developed a habit of using CH for spike damage and Riptide for periodic.

For instance, on KJ I would throw Riptide and Earthshield on any tanks near me, and when they spiked they'd either get a riptide-boosted CH (9k crit chain heals are more than my HW usually does!) or a Tidal Waves hasted HW to get them back up. Fire Bloom people got a Riptide (and hopefully Earthliving) on them, allowing me to concentrate on other damage for a few seconds before returning to the fire bloom person with a big CH or hasted heal to top them off. Moving to the shield? Riptide. Moving back to your spot? Riptide. I (heart) this spell!

My breakdown on KJ was 67% CH, 14% Riptide, 5% ELW, 5% HW, 4% LHW, 3% ES, 1% AA, 1% Heal (Illidan mace) and I ended up doing almost the same healing by myself as the other two restos (who were doing a much more traditional CH/LHW mix) combined.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm happy - I still want Healing Way changed and can't wait for the patch 3.0.3 changes!

Now you've gone and made several more mistakes.

Actual equation works out to be (BaseHeal + SP * (Hcoef+SPmod)) * Hmult

BaseHeal (At lvl 80) = 1738 [1624-1852]
Hcoef = 0.807
SPmod = 0.100 [Tidal Waves x5]
BaseCastTime = 1.5
Hmult = 1.1 [Purification x5]

At level 80 with 1500 base spellpower, 650 Int and all applicable talents:

Lesser Healing Wave = (1738 + (1500+195+98) * (0.807+0.100)) * 1.1 = 3701

With the 195 and 98 being the healing spellpower bonuses from 3/3 improved Earthliving Weapon and 3/3 Nature's Blessing.

Now for Flash Heal, assuming 1500 base spellpower, 650 Int, 650 Spirit, and using Superior Wizard Oil.

BaseHeal (At lvl 80) = 2050 [1896-2203]
Hcoef = 0.807
Spmod = 0.200 [Empowered Healing x5]
BaseCastTime = 1.5
Hmult = 1.1 [Spiritual Healing x5]

Flash Heal = (2050 + (1500+174+163+42) * (0.807+0.200)) * 1.1 = 4336

With 174 and 163 respectively being the spellpower bonuses from 3/3 improved Inner Fire and 5/5 Spiritual Guidance and the 42 spellpower coming from the Superior Wizard Oil

And finally, an updated chart for Lesser Healing Wave and Flash Heal. I don't have accurate data for Nourish or Flash of Light yet.

Thanks for the corrections. How did you figure out that the spellpower coeffs. are additive with the SP->healing coeff? I'm surprised a that.

If you are going to include the Earthliving Weapon imbue, you should include the imbue that the other classes will be using, probably something like Superior Weapon Oil (42 spellpower).

Hcoef = 0.807
..thats approximately 1.5/3.5 * 1.88 = 0.806

Good catch. I overlooked the use of Wizard Oil for the Holy Priest to increase his personal healing and updated the values to reflect it. Also, you are right about your formula returning a similar coefficient value, I was just unfamiliar with the format you used. As to adding the values instead of multiplying, talents or effects that increase a particular spell's benefit from spellpower are added to the base coefficient before further calculation. This has been confirmed to match up with the expected healing values in-game.

I feel the same, In my last SWP raid I tried to use LHW a lot more, and after 137 of them I had 43 proc for 65K heal(without overhealing). Which is really not worth it. Maybe if Tidal wave was on a 1 minutes CD instead of 3. It would be more predictable. IMO, it's an arena talent and I won't be using it for PVE. I'm still wondering if it's worth the 2 pts.

Is the relic subtracting from your base mana instead of cost? Seems like it would be a bug, but it gets you the number you're seeing in game.

(2958-20) * 0.19 * .9 * .95 = 477

That would certainly explain the value I'm seeing. I'll have to try the other relics to see if they are all affecting mana cost the same way or if the problem is limited to this relic. Once I know the extent of the problem, I'll post in the Bug forum on the official Wow website. Thanks for helping me solve this mystery.

I get 477 without a relic and 460 with.

What about BoW and manaspring totem? It seems to me - BoW+MSt dont stuck - but its may be my mistake.
And I`ve not seen any blue post that restor manaspring (impr.) and elemental (for ex.) manaspring totem (not impr.) can be overlayed or not .. anyone knows what will be with it in next patch?

Good info so far. While people are coming up with new PVE numbers let me just throw some PVP ones out there.

Don't know if anybody touched on this yet but the lack of +hit talents had me thinking if they, like threat, compensated it elsewhere or if we flat out just had it taken away.

I ran Recount in wsg and tested Earth Shock and here's what I found....

0 +Hit Rating... 100 Earth Shocks in WSG
100 Total casts
73 ...Hit
14... Crit
7......Miss
4......Absorb
2......Resist


69 +Hit Rating... 100 Earth Shocks in WSG
100 Total casts
78..... Hit
15......Crit
3........Absorb
2........Immune
1........Resist
1........Reflect


So now I understand, we are def lacking the 3% and it was not compensated. In fact, some classes got EXTRA protection on dispel mechanics. If anybody has more info on this, that would be great. My next tests are to try lower hit ratings in order to salvage the other stats.

This should be:

(562 - 20) * (1 - 0.05 - 0.1) = 460

...which explains the flaws in the maths above. Percentage modifiers stack additively as it seems.


Edit: I want to confirm this on beta, but have to get the latest patch first. Wait a few minutes.

BoW and MS Totem stack - BoW is a straight mp5 buff whereas MS simply pulses mana to anyone in the party within range (and doesn't show up as a buff on the player).

This means that yes, it's possible to stack MS totems (regardless of talent points) although the rest of the raid tend to get annoyed when you make a group of five shaman!

Ok, done with the testing.

Tests were done on beta server Coldarra, Version 3.0.3 (build 9095) with a lv70 copy of my shaman from live that has never set a foot into northrend.

I tested Chain Heal, Healing Wave, Lesser Healing Wave, and Lightning Bolt (because there's a totem for that).

Modifiers used:
5/5 Tidal Focus: 5% less mana cost on healing spells
5/5 Convection: 10% less mana cost on elemental spells
1/1 Elemental Focus: 40% less mana cost after an offensive crit
2pcT6r bonus: 10% less mana cost on chain heal
[Totem of Living Water]
[Totem of the Maelstrom]
[Totem of the Pulsing Earth]

Chain Heal:
base: 562
totem: 542
2T6: 505
totem+2t6: 487
TF: 533
TF+totem: 514
TF+2T6: 477
TF+totem+2T6: 460
EF: 337
EF+totem: 325
EF+2T6: 281
EF+totem+2t6: 271
EF+TF: 309
EF+TF+totem: 298
EF+TF+2T6: 252
EF+TF+totem+2T6: 243

Healing Wave:
base: 739
totem: 715
TF: 702
TF+totem: 679
EF: 443
EF+totem: 429
EF+TF: 406
EF+TF+totem: 393

Lesser Healing Wave:
base: 443
TF: 420
EF: 265
EF+TF: 243

Lightning Bolt:
base: 295
totem: 268
CV: 265
CV+totem: 241
EF: 177
EF+totem: 160
EF+CV: 147
EF+CV+totem: 134

To make it short, data seems to be consistent with the following formula:

actual_cost = floor[ (base_cost - flat_reduce_from_totem) * (1 - sum_of_percentage_modifiers) ]

Example: You've got [Totem of Living Water] equipped and 2 pieces Tier6, specced for heal and for Elemental Focus, and have just crit with a shock, then your next chain will cost:

(562 base - 20 totem) * (1 - 0.05 Tidal Focus - 0.1 T6 bonus - 0.4 Elemental Focus) = 243.9

Rounded down to the next integer gives: 243.



Edit: Unfortunately I do not possess [Totem of Flowing Water], so I cannot test anything with it. It states it returns up to 10 mana. Now that downranking is gone, I'd like to know if this means it will always return the maximum amount.

I get that if I am wearing 2pc t6.

Good info I'm not sure if we had already documented this or not but its good to know.

I certainly think that [Totem of Living Water] is worth it especially now that we can't downrank. How would I calculate the amount of mana it saves over different fight durations if I'm spamming CH?

On another note, I cannot justify spending the points in elemental to get EF. Are you talking more about a hybrid spec?

As for the 0/10/51 build. Where did you put the 10 points, either Enhancing Totems, Ancestral knowledge, or Improved Shields is going to be short a point. That is the build I am looking into, but I am torn which talent to skimp on...

Thanks for the help with the formula determining mana cost. Everything in the spreadsheet now matches what I see in game. On to testing the formulas for the amount of healing done...

Skyhoof, the formulas previously used in this post are fairly accurate. I and a guildmate of mine have even gone to the trouble of updating LibHealComm - 3.0 (used by Grid) to account for changes.

Glyphs - % modifiers are calculated after all other math is done. (LHW glyph adds 20% on top of formula, e.g.)

(Base + CastTime/3.5 * (1.88 * PaperDollHealingPower + RelicBonus) * TidalWaves) * GlyphBonus * OtherBonus[n]

TidalWaves obviously only affects HW and LHW.
GlyphBonus is things like 1.2 for LHW if the target has your Earth Shield. Glyph of HW is .2 * Total, etc.
OtherBonus is things like Healing Way, T6, etc.

I am not exactly sure about the formula for PaperDollHealingPower, but I'm reasonably certain it can be described as..

(Base + Equipment + Nature'sBlessing) * Purification

The formula works quite well so far for me on live. I have not tested 4pc T6 as I do not have it, but I have tested the glyphs.

I would really recomend just picking up riptide after a few more levels, if you are like me and really value (overly perhaps) the improved self rez, use this spec.
If you are not concerned with the improved self rez then spec like this. Others will disagree, but there is my 10 cents.

To your original question, the people that I do see with riptide are using this spec typically. Also note that Aanzeijar linked his build in his post, and clicking on his character info will also lead you to his armory page.

I have that totem, if you are interested in getting it tested

I am also conveniently ele specced atm, but speccing resto for raid today (22nd)

What would i need to do ? :o

Well, just flash a few times. Max rank should return 10 mana, alright.

What I'm interested in is the following:
They removed downranking, but did they remove downranking penalties?

The question is more out of curiosity, since there's no actual use for that, but try to cast a few downrank LHW and see if they removed downranking penalties from the totem.