Levva

New build : New Enchants

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...allrecipes.jpg

Enchant Weapon - Greater Potency : +50 AP
Enchant Weapon - Superior Potency : +65 AP
Enchant Weapon - Massacre : +110 AP
Enchant Weapon - Mighty Spellpower : +63 SP

Now I can't really see any point in including Greater Potency or Mighty Spell Power in the sim, there is perhaps a justification in including Superior Potency as its much cheaper than Massacre but I suspect Massacre is the one that really needs to be in there for serious raiding and ignore the others.

However it may be that it simply adds AP to the char sheet tooltip in which case nothing needed. It does create an interesting issue however where you use the AP from the tooltip and need to set enchant to nothing. Or is it wise to have an option for Massacre but have it do nothing because the AP is already reflected in tooltip?

Depends on how intelligent you think the users are, my style is to code for thick users.

 

Stopokingme

Massacre to me seems to be an enchant for a 2 hander, just missing the relevant text.

 

tukez

My opinion is, that if you are intelligent enough the get something useful out of the sim, you are intelligent enough to understand, that passive bonus enchants(or whatever) are not needed to be included separately.

Although, in your GUI, all of those might be needed, depending how do you do it. For example, if you let people change items, enchants etc.

 

Levva

Info coming thick and fast as usual - new trinkets seen in new build :

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...idtrinkets.jpg

Ones for sim are probably :

Fury of the Five Flights : each melee hit = +16 AP stacks 20 times (similar to Darkmoon Card: Crusade)

Grim Toll : +83 hit rating and melee attacks chance to increase Armor Penetration by 612 for 10 secs - Question: Things like this do spell hit too? Looks like exceeding spell hit cap is going to be easy if you get +83 from one item.

Embrace of the Spider : +98 Spell power, spells have chance to increase haste rating by 505 for 10 secs!!!! That SOUNDS enormous as it doesn't say spell haste just haste rating so I assume it affects our melee swings too.

Loatheb's Shadow : +84 crit strike rating, Use: +670 AP for 20 sec (2min CD).

Mirror of Truth : +84 crit strike rating, chance on crit +1000 AP for 10 sec. Sounds like a Enh Shammy one to me

Sundial of the Exiled : +84 crit strike rating, harmful spells have change to add + 590 spellpower for 10 sec.

Note no item levels noted so can't tell if these are starter ones but they sound like Naxx trinkets (Loatheb and all) ie: itemLevel 200.

Note no information at all about proc rates etc - all too early to tell, this is from data mining not from drops.

 

Malan

Is that consistent with the rest of your interface? That's the only concern, as long as it's done the same way for every input it should be ok.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

tukez

Yes, it is consistent.

 

Malan

Tukez, Stormstrike glyph is additive, it adjusts the bonus damage to 28%. Just checked on beta.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Hothgor

Would it be possible to let us set a complete damage rotation including multiple spell casts? The priority system implemented is nice, but doesn't necessarily let you maximize your casts in any meaningful way. Its real easy for a simulator to say 'if MWStack=5, use LvB', not quite so easy when you are juggling SS/Shocks/LL/LvB/MW/Totems/LS cooldowns all at once.

 

Malan

Isn't that the entire point of using priorities?

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Urgok

I think he means that a priority 1 MW_LB and a priority 2 MW_LvB can't function in the simulator together. The MW_LB command is always executed instead of the priority 2 command. So I suppose an OR option would be nice.

 

Levva

Not needed if you set the PRIORITY in the sim OR viewing the situation in game and YOU are making decisions then think what happens.

OH I have 5 stacks of MW (easy to see with ShockAndAwe Enh Shammy addon - shameless plug) so you have determined in the sim I should use :

1: MW_LvB
2: MW_LB

So your though process is "is LvB off cooldown" (again easy with ShockAndAwe - well it will be when I write that bit) if it is you know thats your priority so you do that. If not then you go to next in the list LB - well I can do that so off you go and cast LB.

Now at first it will take some getting used to but I do think that the whole concept of having to make intelligent decisions rather than button mashing will bring a lot of skill and interest to the class. Sure at first we wont do max dps cos we will forget the priorities, however in time we will learn these new skills.

The ones that stay button mashing will have much lower dps than those of us that put in the time and effort to learn new skills and having that as a clear differentiator is great. I like that I could out dps someone geared in T8 gear vs me in starter Naxx gear because I put in the effort to be more skillful. It would be great if the game became more about skillful players and less about macros and gear.

Having said that I am well aware that writing an addon to make it easier to decide makes the comments slightly hypocritical. Still all an addon does is present the info for you to decide in a simple manner, it doesn't actually decide anything for you.

Edit: On re-reading your specific ordering there is still no need for an OR, they are mutually exclusive in that order and the MB_LvB AFTER a MB_LB in a priority queue doesnt have an "OR" its simply not part of the priority queue. The sim knows this and its up to the player to learn this.

 

Hothgor

So pretty much we all plan on 'prioritizing' our abilites. My problem is: "MW just popped up, but SS cooldown is up in 1 second and WF is off cooldown, to LvB or not to LvB?" I prefer dealing in absolutes or with situations that seem somewhat logical. We seem to have too much to do or think about now, and little thought was given into how our abilities and cool downs interact with others. Every other class has a rotation, it just seems silly that we can't and we are so apathetic about it.

But ignoring the 'speculation' on my original post, I'd like the option of simply selecting the order MANUALLY of spells I want to cast and see what happens.

 

Urgok

You might be able to do that hothgar to some extent using the "rotation and misc" section.


wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left 6.0 //maximum seconds to wait for LvB cooldown to use MW

Does this command tell the simulator to wait for the LvB CD if its under X for the MW_LB command and for all instances of MW_(anything here) despite the priority?

 

Malan

No, not every other class has a "rotation."

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Hothgor

Really? Which ones don't?

 

ANSeranov

Shadowpriests, for one.

All this stuff in beta has me so confused. When I transferred my shaman over, I started messing around in Northrend, but the new priority list and new abilities like Lava Lash have left me cross-eyed trying to figure out what to do.

[Yuuzu] [80 Draenei Shaman][Kilrogg]
[Soulu] [80 Draenei Death Knight][Kilrogg]
[Soulu] [80 Human Warrior][Durotan]
[Karina] [77 Draenei Paladin][Durotan]
[Ikarii] [70 Dwarven Rabbi][Durotan]

 

Malan

Shadow Priests and Affliction locks. I'm fairly certain that Fury warriors don't either. Hunters and rogues are really the only "rotation" classes.

For solo I've just been opening with a SS, getting a flame shock going and then using Lava lash. By the time LL and SS come back around, mob should be close to dead.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Wolflord

I think the best analogue is to DPS warriors. Rage generation and MW generation are similar concepts, and lead to both of us having dps priorities, not fixed rotations.

 

tukez

Yes, correct.

 

tukez

Hey, did they change the DW specialization to increase spell hit also? If they did, I assume that it does not show on the char sheet, as it is DW only?

 

Malan

Nah doesn't seem to have been changed. We thought it had been for awhile but I think some guys here proved it wasn't.

Shitting up every single thread on EJ since '06

 

Bellante

There are test dummies in all major cities. If you're Horde, they're right next to the guy selling wolf mounts in Orgrimmar.

 

fauxpas

At least on the EU servers the dummies in the old capitals are lvl 80 .. which makes them pointless for lvl 70 testing. i'd be fine on beta servers but they're also 80 on ptr

 

Rhaegal

In this sense, I think we can take a bit of wisdom from the protection warrior guide. They also use a priority queue for threat generation in a rage-limited situation (rotations are only for infinite rage situations), and the decision on what to do is based on cooldowns and how much rage is available the split second that the GCD is up. The theory is that it's always better to do something to generate threat than to wait on rage, or wait on a cooldown. The same should be true for us: if the GCD is up, and you have a damaging attack that you can do, do it. Don't wait on a cooldown, or you lose damage that you could have done. In the hypothetical example of waiting 1 sec to hit Stormstrike or Lava Lashing now, if you hit LL immediately, then you effectively push the Stormstrike CD back by half a second for the rest of the fight. If you wait on Stormstrike, you push the LL CD back by 2.5 seconds for the rest of the fight. The only exception I can think of is refreshing Lightning Shield, as it doesn't do direct damage and doesn't have a cooldown, so you can do it whenever without missing much.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

 

Hothgor

Regarding Damage Rotations/Priority

I managed to log onto the premade server last night to test a few things out with regards to how much damage we could do. I tried three methods.

First, a priority system.

I had 5/5 Elemental Fury, 2/3 Call of Flame, 3/3 Static Shock and 5/5 Unleashed Rage.

I started off meleeing as normal to get 5 stacks of MW while dropping my totems and poping Lightning shield. After casting the initial MW_LvB, I jumped into using a priority system. Stormstrike always took higher priority over Flame Shock, which took a higher priority over Lava Lash, which took a higher priority over Earth Shock or Lightning Shield Refresh. Whenever MW was ready to blow, I would ignore any other cooldowns that were refreshed and popped LvB OR LB depending on how quickly I could build 5 stacks. After some initial test runs to refine my order and priority system 'you technically can't get a second LL/Shock between SS cooldowns without pushing SS back', I set out to do a proper test.

The results: The best I could manage to do was around 1850 damage. I did this for almost 2 hours and approximately 14,000,000 damage. Now I used no Goatism, and no Feral Spirits. I wasn't always solo attacking the dummy, and I do not know if I was 'leeching' other players buffs at varying times.

Second, a rotation system.

I had 5/5 Elemental Fury, 2/3 Call of Flame, 3/3 Static Shock and 5/5 Unleashed Rage

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst;

That is the macro that I set up to one button smash while damaging the targeting dummy. Again I started auto attacking while dropping totems, then set into spamming the macro for all my worth just to see what would happen. When it came time to cast Lava Burst, I cast it regardless of the MW charges I have 'our swing time does NOT appear to reset'.

The results: I averaged 2050 dps for 20+ minutes. The test was approximately 16 minutes long, but I decided to stop once the DPS stabilized within a 10 dps range. Again I wasn't always solo attacking, but for this test I had a good 12 minutes of solo time on my dummy.

Third, a rotation system.

I had 5/5 Elemental Fury, 2/3 Call of Flame, 3/3 Static Shock and 0/5 Unleashed Rage with 5/5 Reverberation.

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=8 Stormstrike, Flame Shock, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Stormstrike, Lava Lash, Earth Shock, Lava Burst;

Same macro as before, just with 1 second faster shock times. Once again, I started auto attacking while dropping totems, then set into spamming the macro as before. I also cast Lava Burst regardless of having a 5/5 stack or not.

The 'surprising' results:

Total Damage: 1917554
Average DPS: 2011
Melee: 556832 (31.1%) Misses 15.2%, Criticals 37%, Dodge 8.6% 1093 count
Lava Burst: 435378 (24.3%) 0% Misses, 100% crit, 103 count
Flametongue Attack: 243709 (13.6%) 75.3% hits, 24.7% crits, 584 count
Windfury Attack: 179742 (10.1%) 60.9% hits, 30.5% crits, 8.6% dodge, 174 count
Flame Shock: 105475 (5.9%) Hits 75.7%, Crits 24.3%, 103 Count
Lava Lash: 103780 (5.8%) Hits 63.1%, Crits 29.1%, Dodge 7.8%, 103 count
Earth Shock: 64443 (3.6%) Hits 60.6%, Crits 39.4%, 33 count
Lightning Shield: 51068 (2.9%) 100% hits, 73 count

Unfortunately this was the only detailed test I could do last night before the server began to crap out on me. Because of the combat log bugs, Stormstrike was not showing up on the recount detailed list. As you can see, I managed to still pull off over 2000 dps on the level 80 dummy. The dummy DID seem to dodge an anomalously large number of times '6.5 expected, 8.6% result'. The breakdowns were typical of our expected ratios. Only Windfury was low, but I was using rank 8 instead of 5 under the mistaken assumption that all WF ranks were broken.

Summy: Take what you want from my tests, see if you can do better on the actual PTR. My opinion is that simulators are great, but only worth talking about when they match up with real world situations. BTW, can anyone explain WHY I was doing so much more damage with the rotation system?