EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 111

ziff · 11/25/09, 11:21 PM

Looking at the graphs above, it seems pretty consistent that EnhSim is hiting some Haste spikes when haste is increased. Or let me be clearer, from those graphs haste is plateauing for wide ranges where you would hope it would have some kind of positive impact on our dps. I'd be interested on seeing which damage components are the main culpret here, just so that we can verify that the code is working correctly for those components.

Leevva, could you post another graph with a breakdown of each damage component for one of the abovee simulation runs? Maybe we can see some outlier that would require some further investigation.

Levva · 11/26/09, 4:43 AM

Originally Posted by ziff

Looking at the graphs above, it seems pretty consistent that EnhSim is hiting some Haste spikes when haste is increased. Or let me be clearer, from those graphs haste is plateauing for wide ranges where you would hope it would have some kind of positive impact on our dps. I'd be interested on seeing which damage components are the main culpret here, just so that we can verify that the code is working correctly for those components.

Levva, could you post another graph with a breakdown of each damage component for one of the abovee simulation runs? Maybe we can see some outlier that would require some further investigation.

I only cut n paste the data others prepared and stuck it in Excel to produce the graph. I'm sure that Extenze could see how feasible this is to add output of different data.

Rouncer · 11/27/09, 2:29 AM

Originally Posted by Saidbeastie

If all my abilities are on cooldown, and lightning shield is up with a high number of stacks, I refresh magma totem regardless of how much time it has left (using my better judgment of course; I don't see myself refreshing the totem at over 5 seconds). The way I see it, the DPS loss from a couple reset swing timers is made up for by magma totem being up nearly 100% of the time, which for me it is.

Responding to this point at the request of another shaman.

Casting any INSTANT cast spell, as a shaman, does NOT reset your swing timer. Casting a spell with a cast time when you have any charges of Maelstrom Weapon active does NOT reset your swing timer. When there are any charges of Maelstrom Weapon active, if the cast timer intersects with the swing timer then that swing simple does not occur, ie the swing timer is clipped not reset.

Lchaim · 11/27/09, 3:10 AM

Is there any way we could get an option to cast CL instead of LB if additional targets > n? (or just > 0)
It seems that this would give more accurate data for AoE situations.

e: I specifically mean that if there are adds 25% of the fight, you would probably cast CL 25% of the fight, not 100%.

Levva · 11/27/09, 5:23 AM

Originally Posted by Lchaim

Is there any way we could get an option to cast CL instead of LB if additional targets > n? (or just > 0)
It seems that this would give more accurate data for AoE situations.

e: I specifically mean that if there are adds 25% of the fight, you would probably cast CL 25% of the fight, not 100%.

Good idea. I've added that as an issue.

For those that haven't yet seen v1.9.1.2-beta is now available at EnhSim I'd like testers to test all the changes please and report back things tested and proved working as much as reporting bugs. We'd like to get this version to the point we are confident of calling it a release not just a beta.

Rouncer · 11/27/09, 9:57 AM

Well, we can't call it a release until Blizzard pushes 3.3 anyway. Speaking of which, if anyone has access to the PTR (mine is throwing errors at me when I try to patch to the latest version) would they mind testing the interaction of Elemental Focus (the talent) and Fire Nova. Last I checked, Fire Nova could proc Clearcasting from the talent but it didn't get the mana reduction nor would it use a charge when cast while it was active.

Levva · 11/27/09, 11:04 AM

I very strongly suspect we only have until the 8th ie: 11 days so I'd like to get it ready for then as there has been a lot of changes and we need some stability checks to verify all is well.

Personally I'm also spending a lot of time on Rawr as well as EnhSim so personally I really can't put in the time to get EnhSim tested. It is better anyway if someone who isn't coding does the quality control checks. As it is a lot easier to verify your tests as you are not bound by the assumptions the programmer made and thus would test things he may not have thought of.

If some volunteers could help we can provide a full list of changes that require testing and sign off. Rouncer could you possibly co-ordinate this task given that you aren't one of the programmers?

• Jessamy · 11/29/09, 5:00 PM

My character config, enhsim v1.9.0.0-beta. 1000 hours per sim, 5 runs per increment, 1% (0.01) increment step size. 1.53 mean stdev.

Same setup, 10000 hours per sim. 0.48 mean stdev.

Extenze · 11/29/09, 7:17 PM

I ran the usual 10 sims pers RNG, and took the average of the 10 to get these values. 5k hour simulations
Edit: I could've sworn I've typed this in, but I got these numbers by running 10 sims per RNG change, and averaging them otherwise the graph would've been monstrous.

	white	WF	FT	SS	LL	MT	ES	FS	LB	LS	SW	totalDPS
0	2737.02	1026.85	612.07	437.61	342.88	521.98	584.07	317.76	962.48	316.12	334.47	8193.3
0.05	2747.28	1029.42	613.73	437.77	342.77	521.83	584.26	317.72	965.02	316.8	329.07	8205.66
0.1	2755.45	1031.6	615.11	437.97	342.74	521.92	584.53	317.64	967.22	317.39	316.03	8207.6
0.15	2758.49	1032.46	615.65	438.16	342.88	522.1	584.76	317.67	967.97	317.79	308.44	8206.36
0.2	2760.31	1033.01	615.96	438.24	343	522.23	584.84	317.68	968.44	317.93	304.6	8206.24
0.25	2761.02	1033.23	616.11	438.22	342.9	522.21	584.88	317.66	968.78	317.99	304.01	8207.01
0.3	2761.74	1033.46	616.2	438.18	342.89	522.08	584.83	317.64	968.95	318.06	308.06	8212.09
0.35	2762.26	1033.65	616.26	438.17	342.8	522.11	584.92	317.61	969.09	318.05	311.17	8216.08
0.4	2762.5	1033.81	616.28	438.18	342.79	522.01	584.91	317.62	969.21	318.09	310.3	8215.69
0.45	2762.66	1033.84	616.35	438.24	342.85	522.12	584.81	317.61	969.24	318.16	308.37	8214.24
0.5	2763.05	1033.8	616.44	438.27	342.88	522.17	584.85	317.63	969.3	318.18	306.72	8213.29
0.55	2762.91	1033.75	616.39	438.27	342.91	522.09	584.94	317.64	969.32	318.19	306.27	8212.67
0.6	2763.13	1033.99	616.43	438.25	342.81	522.11	584.9	317.63	969.41	318.2	308.14	8214.99
0.65	2763.36	1034.16	616.43	438.26	342.8	521.99	584.89	317.63	969.48	318.24	309.96	8217.19
0.7	2763.61	1034.27	616.51	438.26	342.83	521.99	584.82	317.57	969.41	318.21	309.45	8216.93
0.75	2763.78	1034.32	616.51	438.23	342.84	522.12	584.89	317.63	969.42	318.31	308.39	8216.42
0.8	2763.6	1034.04	616.48	438.27	342.86	522.13	584.77	317.63	969.42	318.32	307.36	8214.89
0.85	2763.78	1034.33	616.49	438.21	342.84	522.04	584.82	317.66	969.42	318.26	306.91	8214.77
0.9	2763.87	1034.32	616.5	438.17	342.82	522.08	584.96	317.6	969.53	318.28	308.14	8216.26
0.95	2763.78	1034.33	616.55	438.23	342.85	522.11	584.83	317.63	969.49	318.4	309.39	8217.57
1	2762.93	1033.81	616.38	438.25	342.83	522.05	584.96	317.61	969.31	318.26	309.21	8215.59

There's a graph in my spreadsheet, but I don't really see any usable detail in it.

Subtracting 0.00 rng values from the 1.0 values you can see what changes the most.

white	WF	FT	SS	LL	MT	ES	FS	LB	LS	SW	totalDPS
25.91	6.96	4.31	0.63	-0.06	0.07	0.89	-0.15	6.82	2.14	-25.26	22.28

edit2: Here's the spreadsheet I used, containing all the raw data.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/816613/attacksOut_me_5k.ods

Levva · 11/30/09, 7:23 AM

I was investigating an issue reported by inconsistencies in Rawr.Enhance & EnhSim with [Talisman of Volatile Power] now it turns out there were bugs in both programs. It did throw up an interesting issue what precisely constitutes "spell damage" and "spell casts" as far as special effect triggers are concerned. A special effect trigger is something that initiates a proc - eg: Set bonus LL triggering Quaking Earth, or spell cast triggering trinket.

Currently EnhSim has the following definition for spell cast...

  public pShockCast,
  public pLightningBoltCast,
  public pLightningOverloadCast,
  public pChainLightningCast,
  public pLavaBurstCast,
  public pLightningShieldCast,
  public pFireNovaCast

Now I note no mention of things like magma totem drops which are spell casts, and apparently do trigger the talisman shouldn't these be included?

We also have the related Spell Damage...

  public pShockDamage,
  public pLightningBoltDamage,
  public pLightningOverloadDamage,
  public pChainLightningDamage,
  public pLavaBurstDamage,
  public pFireNovaDamage,
  public pLightningShieldDamage

The sim has no concept of separating non periodic damage, periodic damage and spell damage. I suspect we should make a separation between them. So that we can have effects proc on any spell damage (including periodic damage such as FS Dot ticks and Magma/searing totem pulses), periodic damage (FS Dot ticks and magma/searing totem) and non-periodic damage (as above).

I may be wrong but doesn't most trinkets that proc off spell damage also proc off magma totem damage & FS Dot ticks?

Whilst I'm musing on these things, where does Flametongue weapon imbue damage come into this? Should it be treated as spell damage? Does it proc things that come under the spell damage list? If so then the Sim is ignoring this source of spell damage at present.

stassart · 11/30/09, 8:06 AM

Originally Posted by Levva

I may be wrong but doesn't most trinkets that proc off spell damage also proc off magma totem damage & FS Dot ticks?

Whilst I'm musing on these things, where does Flametongue weapon imbue damage come into this? Should it be treated as spell damage? Does it proc things that come under the spell damage list? If so then the Sim is ignoring this source of spell damage at present.

I believe spell damage trinket procs fall into these categories:

1) Procs on harmful spell cast
Example: [Talisman of Volatile Power]

2) Procs on any spell cast
Example: [Eye of the Broodmother]

3) Procs on non-periodic crits
Example: [Reign of the Dead]

4) Procs on periodic damage
Example: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

I do not know if Muradin's Spyglass (ICC-10) is initial cast only or periodic damage also, if it is both then it adds another category.

I would guess that Extract of Necromantic Power procs off magma totem damage, but I have not tested it. I would guess that a flametongue weapon damage (Flametongue Attack) crit would proc Reign of the Dead, but I have not tested it.

Levva · 11/30/09, 8:45 AM

Originally Posted by stassart

I believe spell damage trinket procs fall into these categories:

1) Procs on harmful spell cast
Example: [Talisman of Volatile Power]

2) Procs on any spell cast
Example: [Eye of the Broodmother]

3) Procs on non-periodic crits
Example: [Reign of the Dead]

4) Procs on periodic damage
Example: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

I do not know if Muradin's Spyglass (ICC-10) is initial cast only or periodic damage also, if it is both then it adds another category.

I would guess that Extract of Necromantic Power procs off magma totem damage, but I have not tested it. I would guess that a flametongue weapon damage (Flametongue Attack) crit would proc Reign of the Dead, but I have not tested it.

V1.9.1.3 - not released yet. Uses the following for those...

1) Procs on harmful spell cast - pSpellCast - was pSpellDamage in v1.9.1.2
Example: [Talisman of Volatile Power]

2) Procs on any spell cast - not currently implemented!!!
Example: [Eye of the Broodmother]

3) Procs on non-periodic crits - pSpellCrit and pFlametongueCrit
Example: [Reign of the Dead]

4) Procs on periodic damage - not currently implemented!!!
Example: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

None of these trinkets are getting any proc effect from either a Magma totem drop (spell cast) or Magma totem pulse (spell damage? spell crit?).

You also have trinkets in patch 3.3 like [Dislodged Foreign Object] which has proc of "Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 105 and an additional 105 every 2 sec for 20 sec."

Which sounds like spell cast too but who knows (not exactly a Enhance trinket anyway so not a big deal).

So questions are

1) Does periodic spell damage trigger trinkets with "on spell damage"?

2) What does Magma totem damage count as? Periodic? Non periodic? Nothing - doesn't trigger anything?

3) What does Flametongue damage count as? Melee damage? Spell damage? Neither its a special case and works on trinket by trinket basis?

EnhSim currently behaves as

1) no periodic damage triggers exist

2) magma totem doesn't trigger anything

3) treated as a special case on trinket by trinket basis. eg: for [Talisman of Volatile Power] flametongue damage isn't in the sim as triggering this effect.

Zimeron · 11/30/09, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Levva

1) Does periodic spell damage trigger trinkets with "on spell damage"?

2) What does Magma totem damage count as? Periodic? Non periodic? Nothing - doesn't trigger anything?

1) Example of an item that is worded this way?

2) Magma, Searing, and the Fire elemental's damage is considered nothing, they don't proc anything for you. You can get a proc off the spell cast of the totem though.

Levva · 11/30/09, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by zimeron

1) Example of an item that is worded this way?

2) Magma, Searing, and the Fire elemental's damage is considered nothing, they don't proc anything for you. You can get a proc off the spell cast of the totem though.

Muradin's Spyglass which is

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?item=50345

Equip "Each time you deal spell damage to an opponent, you gain 20 spell power for the next 10 sec, stacking up to 10 times."

NB. You'll need to follow the link - EJ forum mangles the link trying to make it a www . wowhead . com item instead of a ptr . wowhead . com item.