EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 15

Hothgor · 09/24/08, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.

Which further emphasizes the 'spelly' nature of our damage come expansion :P

Aximous · 09/24/08, 11:56 AM

In the future could you add some kind of scrolling ability to the gui? I can see only the half of it on a 17" monitor in 1024*768. The parts that are right from the half of buff column aren't visible in any way in this resolution.

Pitbuller · 09/24/08, 12:00 PM

How about those static shock charges. Blues say that those don't eat charges but do they still get benefit like flame shock dot.

tukez · 09/24/08, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Aximous

In the future could you add some kind of scrolling ability to the gui? I can see only the half of it on a 17" monitor in 1024*768. The parts that are right from the half of buff column aren't visible in any way in this resolution.

1.1.2
-Fixed Searing totem interval to 2.55s.
-Lightning Shield changed not to consume SS debuff, but still gain the benefit.

enhsim - Google Code

Now when you maximize the window, you'll get scroll bar.

Aximous · 09/24/08, 12:27 PM

Great, thanks.

Low Life · 09/24/08, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Well that's odd. Oh well, can't complain about that I guess.

Not really odd at all, considering warlocks have had the same mechanics for around two years now with Improved Shadow Bolt.

Rouncer · 09/24/08, 1:25 PM

edited out

Pitbuller · 09/24/08, 6:28 PM

When you run ep values. How do you do it?
You must edit start_ep_calculation file or else it's run wrong 70lvl exe file.

enhsim_lvl80.exe config.txt ep

I bet you Rounced get too low spell damage ep value becouse of that.

80lvl ep values.

D:\Sim2>enhsim_lvl80.exe 80.txt ep
EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      4274.80
ap                        1         0.54      4435.37        160.57
crit rating               2.09      1.12      4386.43        111.63
hit rating                3.10      1.66      4399.17        124.37
expertise rating          1.85      0.99      4354.81        80.01
haste rating              1.39      0.74      4423.17        148.37
armor penetration rating  0.68      0.36      4305.76        30.96
spellpower                1.26      0.68      4477.63        202.83
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.07
intelligence              1.34
elapsed simulation time: 90000.00h

Notes: Expertice don't seem so important anymore. Int seems to be ok. Haste value is low but armor penetration flat out suck.

Damage values and breakdown:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS

white               1183.41   27.68%    109.30
windfury            498.98    11.67%    5.90
flametongue         442.84    10.36%    71.55
stormstrike         201.13    4.7%      6.69      22.46     25.44%
lava lash           123.99    2.9%      8.38      9.62      10.89%
searing totem       255.69    5.98%     0.00
earth shock         170.63    3.99%     3.17      11.69     13.24%
flame shock         264.45    6.19%     5.83      6.77      7.67%
lava burst          616.51    14.42%    5.35      20.28     22.97%
lightning bolt      352.62    8.25%     5.05      17.48     19.79%
lightning shield    165.22    3.86%     0.83      0.00      0.00%
DPS                 4275.48

Notes: Spell damage overcomes melee damage very early stages of gear.

Config: Almoust same that I have posted in this thread before. Normally I cap spell hit but If I do it when running ep values but then people just don't understand how high value hit have. I used Wf and SS glyphs.
You can get couple more dps if you get more comlex rotation but those are too hard to do at in-game.

Config:

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           300
ep_crit_rating                  100
ep_hit_rating                   75
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 200
ep_armor_penetration_rating     85
ep_spellpower                   300

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         20.0
oh_crit                         20.0
mh_hit                          8.0
oh_hit                          8.0
mh_expertise_rating             50
oh_expertise_rating             50
ap                              2500
haste                           0
armor_penetration               0
str                             150
agi                             500
int                             50
spellpower                      750
spell_crit                      15
spell_hit                       11
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    -
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              mw_lvb
rotation_priority3              mw_lb
rotation_priority4              ss
rotation_priority5              es
rotation_priority6              ls
rotation_priority7              ll

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             4/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   1/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

If you see some fancy about config say so becouse this is next base config file.

Rouncer · 09/24/08, 6:59 PM

Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit? Especially since Dual Wield Spec gives 6% melee hit. Change it to 10% spell hit and 14% melee hit. (since 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit). If it's because Dual Wield spec doesn't show on the paper doll then just reduce the Spell hit to 10% so that it is equal to the Melee Hit.

2. Your crit percentages are a bit off. Raise the Intellect to 166 and then they are fine, since 500 Agi gives 6% melee crit + 5% for Thundering Strikes = 9% from crit rating. Then Spell crit would be 9% from gear + 5% from Thundering Strikes + 1% from the 166 Intellect.

3. As for the ep values wouldn't it make more sense for them to be worked on a 1% basis? Something like:

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 33
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 38

That way all the ratings are worth a 1% change in value and the AP and Spellpower are an equal ilevel budget to those ratings values. By using that as the stepping stone between values shouldn't the results be more accurate?

Pitbuller · 09/24/08, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit? Especially since Dual Wield Spec gives 6% melee hit. Change it to 10% spell hit and 14% melee hit. (since 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit). If it's because Dual Wield spec doesn't show on the paper doll then just reduce the Spell hit to 10% so that it is equal to the Melee Hit.

2. Your crit percentages are a bit off. Raise the Intellect to 166 and then they are fine, since 500 Agi gives 6% melee crit + 5% for Thundering Strikes = 9% from crit rating. Then Spell crit would be 9% from gear + 5% from Thundering Strikes + 1% from the 166 Intellect.

3. As for the ep values wouldn't it make more sense for them to be worked on a 1% basis? Something like:

ep_ap 64
ep_crit_rating 46
ep_hit_rating 30
ep_expertise 33
ep_haste_rating 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating 15
ep_spellpower 38

That way all the ratings are worth a 1% change in value and the AP and Spellpower are an equal ilevel budget to those ratings values. By using that as the stepping stone between values shouldn't the results be more accurate?

Very good points.
Spell hit should be 10%.(dw spec don't show at paper doll)
Intellect should be something higher. 166 sound pretty good.
Ep ranges was high when I tested with lower simulated times. Your values look pretty much better.
I edited config and sended it to Tukez.

Hothgor · 09/24/08, 7:31 PM

Since we now know that double FT enchants gives us 4% spell crit with the glyph, would WF glyph give +80% to the WF attack power bonus when double enchanted?

Malan · 09/24/08, 7:59 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Few things.

1. How do you have 11% spell hit but only 8% melee hit?

It takes less hit rating to get 1% spell hit than it does for melee hit. My paperdoll values show that I have more spell hit than I do melee hit. (not counting talents)

Rouncer · 09/24/08, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

It takes less hit rating to get 1% spell hit than it does for melee hit. My paperdoll values show that I have more spell hit than I do melee hit. (not counting talents)

Except 11% spell hit is not equal to 8% melee hit - 10% spell hit is equal to 8% melee hit (it's written that way in my post - basically he was using 1% spell hit that was unaccounted for in the melee hit).

Originally Posted by Hothgor

Since we now know that double FT enchants gives us 4% spell crit with the glyph, would WF glyph give +80% to the WF attack power bonus when double enchanted?

Anyone got a Windfury Glyph on Lich King so I can test that out?

Urgok · 09/25/08, 12:15 AM

Any chance that you would be so kind as to add Mp5 into the simulator. I'd like to come up with a build and a rotation for the 3.0 launch and I've been running into fairly unrealistic mana usage, 10 to 12k every two minutes, and I'd just like to compare Mp5 to Int in an objective way.

Orlgin · 09/25/08, 4:25 AM

FT is overperforming on the sim. The simulator is showing FT is hitting on every swing that an enhance uses but that's not true if you are using FT/FT. Go on a live shaman, use FT/FT and count the number of hits versus the number of FT procs. They aren't the same. Stormstrike will often record only one FT even though you hit twice. I was testing FT theory back when the Lightning capacitor didn't have a cooldown and noted at the time that FT/FT didn't proc as often as it should.

The more interesting thing is that with Stormstrike having 4 debuffs with an 8 sec cooldown, there is almost always a debuff on the target. This essentially means FT is scaling better than Blizzard intended.

I have a question for my own research. Static Shock scaling is what I'm looking at. What damage effects don't trigger this? For example, can a static charge discharge cause a second?

Naibot · 09/25/08, 8:37 AM

Originally Posted by Orlgin

FT is overperforming on the sim. The simulator is showing FT is hitting on every swing that an enhance uses but that's not true if you are using FT/FT. Go on a live shaman, use FT/FT and count the number of hits versus the number of FT procs. They aren't the same. Stormstrike will often record only one FT even though you hit twice. I was testing FT theory back when the Lightning capacitor didn't have a cooldown and noted at the time that FT/FT didn't proc as often as it should.

Yes, i roughly came to this same conclusion yesterday when i hopped into DM north on PTR to test a dual FT setup. Some basic weaponspeed interaction with dual FT showed me this (no flurry, no UR, naked only swinging a combination of vendor weapons).

2.5/2.5 (136.7dps) - # melee hits == # flametongue procs (100%)

1.4/1.4 (157.7dps) - # melee hits == # flametongue procs (100%)

2.5/1.4 (137.4dps) - # melee hits =/= # flametongue procs (90.8%)

1.4/2.5 (138.0dps) - # melee hits =/= # flametongue procs (91.4%)

No matter how much haste i introduced (flurry/WFT/DST/BL), equal speed weapons nicely procced every possible flametongue. It's only when swings overlap either due to different speeds, when you are parrying attacks or whenever you hit /startattack before you are in range, that flametongue procs seem to get lost.

So what's the cause of these lost flametongue procs? Is it latency? Since there is some delay between the weapon hit and the proc some may be wiped from the queue? Or like Windfury Weapon maybe there is some small hidden cooldown to prevent chain proccing, seems likely.

Like already said, FT interaction with SS only gives one proc, if dual enchanted the mainhand proc seems to put the offhand proc on cooldown.
Funnily enough two different ranks of FT do yield both procs on a SS (sounds familiar to the windfury issue we had in TBC

) Whatever fix they made to prevent chainproccing they forgot to include cross ranking. Even looking a bit further and checking out Frostbrand shows even more how big of a mess the coding of weapon imbues is. There seems to be 3 checks for a FB proc on a SS (debuff/mh/oh) resulting in triple procs quite often when dual enchanted.

All in all we can honestly say that the weapon imbue system is a mess and Blizzard never really bothered to recode it to properly behave with dualwielding. Band-aid fixes to prevent abuse of messy mechanics is all what we have seen.
I'm fairly sure this is why Blizzard is hinting us to use two different imbues in Wotlk, WF/FT will be the combination for lvl80 trust me. They won't remove the choice to dw same imbues no, but they won't bother to recode them either.

Edit: A quick test on blasted land mobs, using two different ranks of flametongue indeed shows that there are no lost procs compared to the ~20% lost using same ranks due to overlapping swings. So i think we can honestly say that there seems to be a small cooldown on the proc.

Aximous · 09/25/08, 11:13 AM

Chaotic and relentless metagems aren't seem to be having the same effect. Without changing stats I got 30dps difference just by changing the metagems.
Relentless:

white 1091.21
windfury 641.97
stormstrike 215.37
lava lash 105.57
searing totem 131.32
earth shock 130.39
flame shock 154.92
lightning bolt 472.57
lightning shield 88.71

DPS 3032.04
MPS 127.80
MP2min 15335.89

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 24.87s
simulation speed: 1447701x

Chaoitc:

white 1065.22
windfury 629.10
stormstrike 210.92
lava lash 105.57
searing totem 133.30
earth shock 132.41
flame shock 156.02
lightning bolt 479.75
lightning shield 88.71

DPS 3001.00
MPS 127.82
MP2min 15338.21

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 25.19s
simulation speed: 1429081x

Hothgor · 09/25/08, 1:10 PM

Ghostcrawler posted today stating that it is unintended for multiple weapon enchants to give us double the glyph bonus. For example, 2 FT weapon enchants were giving us 4% spell crit, and 2 WF enchants were giving us 96% bonus attack power. It's only supposed to get the benefit once, not twice. Please update the simulator accordingly if needed!

Rouncer · 09/25/08, 6:27 PM

Pitbuller, I have a new set of stats for you to use as a baseline for the Sim.

They are based off a level 80 Tauren Shaman wearing

-5 piece Naxx 10 man Enhance armor
-3 piece SWP-T6 armor
-new PvP melee cloak
-2x Naxx 10 man melee rings
-Madness of the Betrayer and Shard of Contempt
-Supremus Neck
-2x ilevel 200 PvP weapons
-All gear enchanted with WotLK enchants (although used TBC helm enchant since couldn't find the new helm enchant)
-All gems slots filled with 32 AP blue gems (to keep things simple and to give room for EP calculations - I did include gem slot bonuses that were useful though)

There were 10 gem slots so if people want to change stats around they can pull 32 AP off and convert it into 16 Crit Rating or 16 Expertise or 16 Hit Rating or 16 Agility or 19 Spellpower

Values for Sim
Strength = 125
Agility = 455
Intellect = 403
Expertise Rating = 184 (5.61%)
Critical Rating = 445 (9.69%)
Haste Rating = 75 (2.29%)
Hit Rating = 282 (melee hit = 8.6%/spell hit = 10.75%)
AP = 2636

melee crit = 18.07%
spell crit = 14.31%

(if anyone is curious here are the base stats for a Tauren Shaman at level 80)
Strength = 125
Agility = 69
Intellect = 123
Melee Crit = 3.75%
Spell Crit = 2.94%
HP = 8009
Mana = 5961

base stats (agi and int) were only used for AP determinations and not for melee or spell crit percentages.

Pitbuller · 09/25/08, 6:41 PM

Rounced thanks! Those are pretty much what I expected and worked with. So I don't need to do all sim runs again for every weapon speed with every imbue. I work with those now on.
Do I understand correct that base mana is 5961 - 123*15 = 4116. Or do I miss something?

Edit: Damn typos.

Rouncer · 09/25/08, 6:49 PM

Originally Posted by Pitbuller

Do I understand correct that base mana is 5961 - 123*13 = 4116. Or do I miss something?

It's 15 mana per Intellect so Base mana would be 5961 - 123*15 = 4116 (heh you used the right value in your calculator but wrote it wrong in your post

)

Pitbuller · 09/25/08, 7:39 PM

With real gear numbers dps went up. I fear nerf bat soon just please don't hit hard.
4557dps with this config with fast mainhand with flame tongue over ~4700-
I added Glyph of Strength of Earth Totem to crit value it's not typo.(This time). What weapons enchant should be used? Arena totems have to added to sim becouse [Totem of Splintering] suck big time it's not even close to [Stonebreaker's Totem]. Even when dual wf and glyph plus slowest weapons. How bad it can be? Config is allmoust ready. More comments.

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28

mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        1.4
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         19.07
oh_crit                         19.07
mh_hit                          8.6
oh_hit                          8.6
mh_expertise_rating             184
oh_expertise_rating             184
ap                              2636
haste                           2.29
armor_penetration               0
str                             125
agi                             455
int                             403
spellpower                      791
spell_crit                      14.31
spell_hit                       10.75
base_mana                       4396

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    -
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              fs
rotation_priority2              mw_lvb
rotation_priority3              mw_lb
rotation_priority4              ss
rotation_priority5              es
rotation_priority6              ll
rotation_priority7              ls

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

Thanks kasik047. Anything else you can find?

kasik047 · 09/25/08, 7:55 PM

Pitbuller, in your config you have call of flame at 1/3, I believe you might mean 2/3 points which will result in a slight dps increase (although extremely small)

tukez · 09/26/08, 2:30 PM

1.1.3
-Double FT with glyph doesn't give 4% spell crit anymore.
-Fixed Stonebreaker's Totem to proc only from shocks.
-Removed the fourth major glyph slot.

enhsim - Google Code

I also did pretty big internal changes to the code. The code started to fall apart from some parts, so I redid them. If someone is interested, I changed the proc choosing system from single inheritance and function overriding to clever use of multiple inheritance. I also changed the method how I calculate some of the stats to a cleaner one. Although, now I have to divide the stats in their components in the enhsimconfig. Now it is a bit easier to maintain the code.

I also added that level 80 config file.

Roywyn · 09/26/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

It's 15 mana per Intellect so Base mana would be 5961 - 123*15 = 4116 (heh you used the right value in your calculator but wrote it wrong in your post

)

The first 20 points of intellect (and stamina) give you only 1 point of Mana (HP).
So, base mana is 5961-103*15-20 = 4396.

If you hover over intellect, it also tells you how much mana you get. Difference to your actualy mana is Base Mana.