EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 22

tukez · 10/14/08, 8:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ridan

2 things I would like to highlight in my sim:
I put 14% spell hit (164 hit rating => 13% spell hit +1% draeni Aura), and the ep calculation foundd that I'm 1.58537% (20 hit rating), other the hit cap (I don't use spice_hot_talbuk). Same goes for the Expertise cap, I should only be 2 expertise (not rating) above the expertise cap.

I'm a little surprised at the ep rating I have for haste. It seems that MW scales really well with haste in the sim.

14% hit + 3% hit from buff is 17% hit. Then you add ep hit and you go over the cap by 20 hit rating.

6.5% dodge and 0.25% negated by 1 expertise. 6.5 / 0.25 = 26 expertise needed to cap. 26 * 3.9423 = 102.5 expertise rating to cap. Since expertise rating is rounded down to expertise, you need 103 expertise to cap. You have 112 expertise rating + 3 ep expertise = 112 + 3 * 3.9423 = 123.8269 expertise rating. 123.8269 - 103 = 20.8269 expertise rating over the cap.

Ridan · 10/14/08, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by tukez

14% hit + 3% hit from buff is 17% hit. Then you add ep hit and you go over the cap by 20 hit rating.

6.5% dodge and 0.25% negated by 1 expertise. 6.5 / 0.25 = 26 expertise needed to cap. 26 * 3.9423 = 102.5 expertise rating to cap. Since expertise rating is rounded down to expertise, you need 103 expertise to cap. You have 112 expertise rating + 3 ep expertise = 112 + 3 * 3.9423 = 123.8269 expertise rating. 123.8269 - 103 = 20.8269 expertise rating over the cap.

Okay so the warning happens when you add the ep range value to your current value.
Thanks a lot for the info.

Acks · 10/14/08, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Ridan

I'm a little surprised at the ep rating I have for haste. It seems that MW scales really well with haste in the sim.

That seems like an aberration. I notice you're running the sim for 10k hours and pretty low EP step values. Im a noob so maybe that is decent enough, but I myself ran 50k hour sims and achieved greater stability in the results (agi was fluctuating between 1.82 and 2.01 at 10k hours but I got the exact same value in 3 consecutive sims at 50k hours).

Maybe its your godly Main hand, I don't know. Tukez, what are your thoughts on the # of simulation hours vs the size of the step values?

Fuulish · 10/14/08, 1:32 PM

Just wanted to say, awesome sim, very helpful.

I did have a question tho. Since pretty much everything relies on current gear in some fashion, is there any kind of tool folks use to forecast stats, etc with gear they don't currently own? Something similar to the hunter spreadsheet where you can plug in different pieces of gear to see overall changes to your stats?

While I understand per piece EP calculation is a good guide, I also like to be able to do full gear swap comparisons as well, just to have a clearer picture of how I want to be pursuing upgrades.

Illundai · 10/14/08, 1:41 PM

I have been running simulations for the past 4-5 hours and my agi/hitrating/crit values keep fluctuating like crazy.

F.ex:


EP                        value     DPS

baseline
ap                        1.00      0.64
crit rating               1.65      1.06
hit rating                1.73      1.11
expertise rating          0
haste rating              1.84      1.18
armor penetration rating  1.83      1.17
spellpower                0.72      0.46
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.86
intelligence              1.27
mh dps                    6.12      3.91
oh dps                    3.40      2.18


elapsed simulation time: 300000.00h
elapsed real time: 657.63s
simulation speed: 1642265x

vs

P                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3177.92
ap                        1.00      0.62      3190.26        12.34
crit rating               2.69      1.66      3194.51        16.59
hit rating                1.79      1.10      3188.94        11.02
expertise rating          0
haste rating              1.86      1.15      3189.38        11.46
armor penetration rating  1.87      1.15      3189.46        11.54
spellpower                1.10      0.68      3186.07        8.15
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.34
intelligence              1.35
mh dps                    6.48      4.00      3257.82        79.90
oh dps                    3.76      2.32      3224.33        46.41


elapsed simulation time: 300000.00h
elapsed real time: 924.76s
simulation speed: 1167870x

I'm trying to get my AEP values for ungemmed gear, but I'm not altering my input at all...

Here are my values that I'm using:

simulation_time                 3000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           20
ep_crit_rating                  10
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    10
ep_haste_rating                 10
ep_armor_penetration_rating     10
ep_spellpower                   12
ep_dps                          20

mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          114.4
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         31.23
oh_crit                         31.23
mh_hit                          9.43
oh_hit                          9.43
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2131
haste                           8.37
armor_penetration               28.84
str                             141
agi                             297
int                             215
spellpower                      639
spell_crit                      22.63
spell_hit                       14.00
base_mana                       5678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        shard_of_contempt
trinket2                        blackened_naaru_sliver

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    100.0/100.0
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_major_agility
guardian_elixir                 elixir_of_draenic_wisdom
potion                          haste_potion
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

I was kinda expecting to have nearly no fluctuations at all with this simulation time... :S

Pitbuller · 10/14/08, 1:52 PM

Use over 10000 hours when calculating ep. It's pretty steady after that.

Ep calculator tell whole simulated time. So you run 10*30k runs.

Illundai · 10/14/08, 2:01 PM

I ran it for 300k hours O_o.

tukez · 10/14/08, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

I have been running simulations for the past 4-5 hours and my agi/hitrating/crit values keep fluctuating like crazy.

I was kinda expecting to have nearly no fluctuations at all with this simulation time... :S

Are you sure, that is the config you used? I don't get the same DPS with that config compared to the second sample you gave.

I think, you just have too low EP ranges. Use higher ranges and much higher ranges with ap and spellpower, since they scale linearly. If you look at the DPS difference with the tests compared to baseline it's about 0.36%, which sounds a little low to me.

Aximous · 10/14/08, 4:25 PM

In the config file you posted 3000 stands for simulation_time not 300000.

Illundai · 10/14/08, 4:38 PM

Yeah, I noticed that, which is odd since it did run for 300k hours, as you can see from the EP values

.

Acks · 10/14/08, 5:46 PM

Edited out my drivel with something more to the point.

2 100,000 hour simulations, run back to back

#1

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3058.31
ap                        1.00      0.58      3081.66        23.35
crit rating               1.94      1.13      3080.96        22.65
hit rating                1.78      1.04      3079.13        20.82
expertise rating          0
haste rating              1.67      0.97      3077.81        19.50
armor penetration rating  1.72      1.01      3078.42        20.11
spellpower                0.62      0.36      3066.96        8.65
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.97
intelligence              1.38
mh dps                    6.54      3.82      3086.95        28.64
oh dps                    3.83      2.24      3075.08        16.77


elapsed simulation time: 1000000.00h
elapsed real time: 3232.68s
simulation speed: 1113627x

#2

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      3058.57
ap                        1.00      0.56      3080.79        22.22
crit rating               1.89      1.05      3079.58        21.01
hit rating                1.86      1.03      3079.18        20.61
expertise rating          0
haste rating              1.75      0.97      3078.00        19.43
armor penetration rating  1.73      0.96      3077.77        19.20
spellpower                0.61      0.34      3066.66        8.09
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.00
intelligence              1.35
mh dps                    6.72      3.73      3086.55        27.98
oh dps                    3.88      2.16      3074.74        16.17


elapsed simulation time: 1000000.00h
elapsed real time: 3228.88s
simulation speed: 1114939x

Config file:

simulation_time                 50000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    5
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5

mh_speed                        2.8
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          100.2
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         32
oh_crit                         32
mh_hit                          10.62
oh_hit                          10.62
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2258
haste                           7.29
armor_penetration               10.13
str                             161
agi                             483
int                             264
spellpower                      677
spell_crit                      22.41
spell_hit                       14
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        dragonspine_trophy
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    lightning_bolt
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
use_searing_totem               1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  0/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            warp_burger
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

So #1 says agi and crit are about equal. #2 says agi is superior, crit and hit are the same. Etc.

I suppose my question is this: What should I change in my config, # of hours, Ep step values, etc, to get a more accurate picture? Or is this the most accurate I can expect? (i realize im splitting hairs here to some degree).

NOTE: The "elapsed simulation time" at the end seems to be adding a 0 on the end of the value in the gui.

Bellante · 10/15/08, 8:42 AM

Originally Posted by Fuulish

Just wanted to say, awesome sim, very helpful.

I did have a question tho. Since pretty much everything relies on current gear in some fashion, is there any kind of tool folks use to forecast stats, etc with gear they don't currently own? Something similar to the hunter spreadsheet where you can plug in different pieces of gear to see overall changes to your stats?

While I understand per piece EP calculation is a good guide, I also like to be able to do full gear swap comparisons as well, just to have a clearer picture of how I want to be pursuing upgrades.

Here's the problem with a full swap: When you change 1 item compared to your current gear kit, your EP's for all ratings change. So doing a full swap based on EP with current gear is not meaningful. You have to do a step-by-step "if I put this on, what happens to my EP then, and after that, what will be my next upgrade". It's all a balance, and why we have the sim in the first place.

kelben · 10/15/08, 9:39 AM

I've been fiddling with the sim for hours on end now, tweaking things moving things around and its either the lack of sleep or I'm missing something. I'm going with a build that skips UR (since we have a marksman hunter for TSA) and picks up 3/3 static shock. I ended up going with the gylph for SoE and LS. Either way i'm pushing 2975 dps with this build in the sim. And i still have to go over my numbers again, I think i'll find a few items that will easily push me up to 3k dps

The sim provided the following interesting stats: 9% haste with raid buffs was very very important, after 9% haste took a nose dive, %hit is still very highly rated for melee but seeing that i'm spell capped, I assumed AP was better and took that over %hit. Should I try and find that magical point where melee hit % starts loosing value or is it one of those things that you have to reach the cap before it start loosing value (haven't had time to sim %hit for melee yet). Unchecking time bloodlust with trinkets, netted me around a 40-60 dps increase. And cutting flame shock out of my rotation also increased my dps (but is that the case of dps going up but total dmg going down?)

Basically, what I'm worried about is that I've made a mistake in the ep base stats (I left them at default) and its horribly skewing my results, or something else thats slipped my mind. Static Shock gives me the biggest dps boost and I wasn't expecting this.

ep_base_stat ap
ep_ap 40
ep_crit_rating 20
ep_hit_rating 20
ep_expertise 3
ep_haste_rating 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 20
ep_spellpower 24
ep_dps 7.5

mh_speed 2.5
oh_speed 2.6
mh_dps 103
oh_dps 107.9
mh_crit 28.01
oh_crit 28.01
mh_hit 11.35
oh_hit 11.35
mh_expertise_rating 83
oh_expertise_rating 83
ap 2264
haste 8.74
armor_penetration 8.1
str 139
agi 310
int 242
spellpower 657
spell_crit 21.06
spell_hit 14.19
base_mana 2958

mh_imbue windfury
oh_imbue flametongue

mh_enchant mongoose
oh_enchant mongoose

trinket1 madness_of_the_betrayer
trinket2 shard_of_contempt

totem stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus skyshatter_harness_4

metagem relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1 lightning_shield

rotation_priority_count 5
rotation_priority1 MW5_LB
rotation_priority2 ES
rotation_priority3 SS
rotation_priority4 LL
rotation_priority5 LS

qid · 10/15/08, 10:42 AM

I'm also getting some very strange results, like hit rating worth almost 3 AP when I should already be capped for specials and at least close to capped for spells. Should be able to check my gear with armory (badge/mid-Tier 6 basically), spec is http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?sham...35331131201051

EnhSim config:

simulation_time                 25000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         50
max_lag                         175

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   10
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5

mh_speed                        2.80
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          100.3
oh_dps                          103.0
mh_crit                         23.33
oh_crit                         23.33
mh_hit                          10.15
oh_hit                          10.15
mh_expertise_rating             62
oh_expertise_rating             62
ap                              2049
haste                           3.04
armor_penetration               5.81
str                             230
agi                             417
int                             144
spellpower                      614
spell_crit                      13.98
spell_hit                       12.68
base_mana                       2678

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    -
glyph_major2                    -
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.50
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
wait_mw_if_lvb_cd_left          0.0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0

rotation_priority_count         4
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      5/5
concussion                      0/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          305/305
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            ravager_dog
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

And the results:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2349.71
ap                        1.00      0.46      2368.16        18.45
crit rating               2.09      0.96      2369.00        19.29
hit rating                2.90      1.34      2363.08        13.38
expertise rating          3.37      1.56      2368.10        18.40
haste rating              1.74      0.80      2365.78        16.07
armor penetration rating  1.57      0.72      2364.17        14.47
spellpower                0.54      0.25      2355.64        5.94
strength                  1.10
agility                   2.09
intelligence              1.37
mh dps                    6.66      3.07      2372.74        23.04
oh dps                    3.82      1.76      2362.92        13.21


elapsed simulation time: 275000.00h
elapsed real time: 865.16s
simulation speed: 1144302x

Is the best necklace in the game for me really the 35 badge reward, or is something wrong here?

Pitbuller · 10/15/08, 10:56 AM

If you are not spell hit capped hit is somewhere around 3ep. But don't use those values with lootrank. Just gem/food/glove enchant to spell hit cap. Use after spell hit cap ep values for gearing.

ChaguraED · 10/15/08, 3:37 PM

yup, with that file you look to be about 4% short of spell hit cap. Just liek casters, it's the big deal till you have the cap. I too have swapped back to choker of Vile intent...glad I kept my old crap!

Odd result for myself, I'm only showing 1.5 DPS difference in enchanting my OH with Deathfrost vs Mongoose. that's with a 1.5 OH. Could someone else please run a sim to see for themselves?

I'm guessing without WF on the OH, the mongoose proc rate takes a hit.

EDIT: I smartened up and ran the tests myself. at 2.5 speed OH, mongoose has an uptime of ~4.5% more than 1.5 speed OH.

Deathfrost has a PPM of 5.34 using the 2.5 speed OH, but a PPM of 6.8 using the 1.5 speed OH.

Resulting Question: Shouldn't Deathfrost's PPM be linear with weapon speed? or even better using a slow OH with lavalash?

Fuulish · 10/15/08, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bellante

Here's the problem with a full swap: When you change 1 item compared to your current gear kit, your EP's for all ratings change. So doing a full swap based on EP with current gear is not meaningful. You have to do a step-by-step "if I put this on, what happens to my EP then, and after that, what will be my next upgrade". It's all a balance, and why we have the sim in the first place.

Thank you for responding. I fully understand what you mean, however, I'm also concerned with the potential tunnel vision that I've seen happen when folks only rely on per item EP. The best example I can give you is the Hunter T6 pieces out of MH and BT. Stat for stat (and AEP if you use that sort of thing for hunters), pretty much every single piece of T6 was WORSE than the comparable non-set epic drop/badge item from those instances. Bow-Stitched Leggings > T6 legs, Scaled Drakeskin > T6 chest, Beast-tamer's shoulders > T6 shoulders (debatable based upon how much ArP you had), S4 helm > T6 helm. T6 gloves were the only thing that were best in slot pre-Sunwell.

On a per item basis, you'd end up sticking the T6 in the bank, but knowing that the 4pc bonus was absolutely killer (i.e., beat the stat benefits from all 4 non-set pieces) was the right path of upgrading. I'm just looking for that sort of thing, but now for my shaman.

Anyways, thanks for listening.

Audrix · 10/15/08, 8:19 PM

Tech Issue:

I'm having problems running the sim. It crashes on me. I'm running Windows XP with SP3 and all the .Net Framework patches installed. I install the Redistributable Package the GUI works but once I hit any of the simulations I get this error "enhsim.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I ran it with out the GUI and I get the same error. On the system tray I'm running Avast, ZoneAlarm and Spybot if any of that matters. Thanks.

Tobarah · 10/16/08, 3:02 AM

Originally Posted by Audrix

Tech Issue:

I'm having problems running the sim. It crashes on me. I'm running Windows XP with SP3 and all the .Net Framework patches installed. I install the Redistributable Package the GUI works but once I hit any of the simulations I get this error "enhsim.exe has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience." I ran it with out the GUI and I get the same error. On the system tray I'm running Avast, ZoneAlarm and Spybot if any of that matters. Thanks.

Ditto, I'm trying to convince friends to run it for me...or I'm just gonna try it at a LAN center.

Bellante · 10/16/08, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Fuulish

Thank you for responding. I fully understand what you mean, however, I'm also concerned with the potential tunnel vision that I've seen happen when folks only rely on per item EP. The best example I can give you is the Hunter T6 pieces out of MH and BT. Stat for stat (and AEP if you use that sort of thing for hunters), pretty much every single piece of T6 was WORSE than the comparable non-set epic drop/badge item from those instances. Bow-Stitched Leggings > T6 legs, Scaled Drakeskin > T6 chest, Beast-tamer's shoulders > T6 shoulders (debatable based upon how much ArP you had), S4 helm > T6 helm. T6 gloves were the only thing that were best in slot pre-Sunwell.

On a per item basis, you'd end up sticking the T6 in the bank, but knowing that the 4pc bonus was absolutely killer (i.e., beat the stat benefits from all 4 non-set pieces) was the right path of upgrading. I'm just looking for that sort of thing, but now for my shaman.

Anyways, thanks for listening.

I understand you, and that makes sense. However, what you need to know is, how much EP are you "losing" by wearing t6, and how much are you gaining from the set bonuses.

The 2 piece t6 bonus is finally getting some merit, as alot of us are wearing leather, and therefore having relatively small mana pools. The 4 set is directly worth 70 AP. I took off bowstitched leggings and put on t6, along with the 3 T6 items from sunwell, simply due to the EP difference between bowstitched and t6 leggings being less than 70. And then a nice 2 set bonus to boot.

Mindrila · 10/16/08, 1:17 PM

I am also getting fluctuating values, what I really would like to see is something like simulation passes and building the meanvalue for those EP. So for example let it be 10000hrs simulation time but 10 passes.

And what I also would like to see is something like exporting EP values to an ingame Addon (EquivalencePoints or something similar).

I think it wouldn't be that hard to implement the 10 passes thing. Exporting is also not that hard, but I don't exactly know how EquivalencePoints imports its values. I'll look into it. But I'm only used to programming java so I can't do it myself.

Raut · 10/16/08, 4:19 PM

Minor update on my reported ap vs. crit question; I reran the sim upping the stats manually and everything is in order. Seems I did something wrong writing down the stats from PTR and ended up with too much spell power in the crit scenario.

To double check my results I later ran EP calculations with the same added stats and the sample DPS was within ~0.5 of manual runs. Considering my results are ~3100 I'd say that's well within the margin of error.

Shamanzomg · 10/16/08, 6:34 PM

I have done some sim runs and for my surprise I got 5dps higer with goose/exec than with dual goose. I am using 2 slow weps (2.6) both with WF, my armor pen rating is 13. Anyone else getting same results ?

Kyuki · 10/16/08, 7:34 PM

I sim dualMongoose beeing about 20-25~ DPS better than exe/mon and mon/exe

• Krish · 10/16/08, 7:38 PM

Originally Posted by Shamanzomg

I have done some sim runs and for my surprise I got 5dps higer with goose/exec than with dual goose. I am using 2 slow weps (2.6) both with WF, my armor pen rating is 13. Anyone else getting same results ?

What boss armor value were you using? What about major and minor armor debuff values? Armor penetration now has the opposite kind of scaling as its prior form. The more armor your target has, the more valuable the stat becomes. Try playing with 7700 vs 6200 armor bosses and adding/removing the armor debuffs from the sim. Executioner is likely to be a better soloing/leveling enchant, and Mongoose a better raiding enchant.