EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 32

Barrar · 11/03/08, 4:56 PM

I am still having issues getting EP values which make logical sense. I know that once spell hit cap is reached, the weight of hit rating should drop quite a bit and I thought from others that it should be worth less than crit rating and agility. They all seem to come out close, but yet hit rating continues to be valued more than crit/AP/agility. Could you please take a look and see if I missed something here? I understand how the sim works (beginning to think I don't) and how EPs are calculated so the math makes sense. Thanks for any greater understanding you can help me with.

ep_base_stat				ap
ep_ap 					40
ep_crit_rating 				20
ep_hit_rating 				20
ep_expertise 				3
ep_haste_rating 			20
ep_armor_penetration_rating 	        20
ep_spellpower 				24
ep_dps					7.5
ep_mana				        200
ep_mp5				        20
mh_speed				2.6
oh_speed				2.5
mh_dps					100.2
oh_dps					103.0
mh_crit					24.72
oh_crit					24.72	
mh_hit					10.72
oh_hit					10.72
mh_expertise_rating			25
oh_expertise_rating			25
ap				        2087
haste					5.0
armor_penetration			0
str				        115
agi			                371
int				        239
spi					128
spellpower				750
spell_crit				19.71
spell_hit				14.0
mh_imbue	 			windfury
oh_imbue	 			flametongue
mh_enchant				mongoose
oh_enchant				mongoose
trinket1			        darkmoon_card_crusade
trinket2				dragonspine_trophy

baseline                                      		    2441.52
ap                        		1.00      0.46      2459.94        18.42
crit rating               		1.95      0.90      2459.44        17.93
hit rating               	 	2.18      1.00      2461.56        20.05
expertise rating          	        3.56      1.64      2460.88        19.37
haste rating              		1.16      0.53      2452.19        10.68
armor penetration rating  	        1.37      0.63      2454.10        12.58
spellpower                		0.74      0.34      2449.68        8.17
mh dps                    		6.59      3.03      2464.26        22.75
oh dps                    		2.91      1.34      2451.56        10.04
strength                  		1.10
agility                   		1.97
intelligence              		1.26

ChaguraED · 11/03/08, 8:24 PM

Your Hit does look in line with numbers I've seen from peoples results. Hit is by no means a bad stat anymore, even after spell cap. It's a direct contribution to our maelstrom procs happening faster. As well, flametongue on your offhand will help drive hit value up. If you swap to WF on your OH you may see hit EP drop, but that may drop your overall DPS as well. If it says hit is good, then more hit is good.

Lethnon · 11/04/08, 3:24 AM

My sim numbers are looking like Barrar's, but I am also seeing another odd thing with the sim. Before, I was in T5, still had STR gems and enchants, etc. Now, I have a few more hyjal / bt pieces of gear, I have replaced my str enchants with hit and AP, and my hit is 169, yet the sim shows a decrease in DPS. It doesn't match what I am hitting in raids and such, and I am quite confused. Can anyone help explain this?

*edit*

I think I figured it out. For some reason, the sim isn't reading my MH or OH dps anymore.

*edit #2*

I went back and double checked. Shock and Awe has stopped putting in MH and OH DPS, and no matter what imbue you actually have, it seems to be putting in windfury for both hands. I don't know if a newer version of SAA just came out (I use the curse client, and so sometimes addon updates slip by automatically) or if another addon I have is causing issues with the export.

Jasum · 11/04/08, 5:35 AM

Originally Posted by raabnox

Has anyone else been getting very high EP values for INT when running the sim? When I ran the sim yesterday, int came in @ 3.8. This seems a bit out of line.

My int is at 251 and my mana pool @ 6443.

Since the manapool simulation was implemented you have to put shamanistic rage into your spellrotation. Otherwise the sim thinks your a going oom and more INT would let you go on longer. So the high EP value for INT is kind of logical.

Levva · 11/04/08, 6:45 AM

Tukez, a question came up in the SAA thread for the sim

Should users make sure they clear buffs like flametongue weapon buffs before using the values on their paper doll stats? In SAA export I warn users to remove all buffs (bar heroic presence which you cant remove). Its important I think to ensure people are entering the right values - or SAA is exporting the right ones but there is a lot of confusion about what updates the character sheet and what doesn't.

Originally Posted by Lethnon

I went back and double checked. Shock and Awe has stopped putting in MH and OH DPS, and no matter what imbue you actually have, it seems to be putting in windfury for both hands. I don't know if a newer version of SAA just came out (I use the curse client, and so sometimes addon updates slip by automatically) or if another addon I have is causing issues with the export.

I think the answer to my question above will be you should be exporting without any weapon imbues. As I expected this was the case when I wrote the export routine I programmed SAA to export what the user had set as their weapon buff preferences if you have windfury/windfury set then thats what will export. If you want it to export windfury/flametongue then /saa config and change the options in warning options section.

There is a new version 3.63 that has updates for the export routine, in particular fixes for non enUS clients not recognising the spelling of weapon dps values. Can someone PLEASE do a translation I CANNOT accurately translate myself, so that's why people get errors or output that has 0.0 dps weapons and a warning message. In addition it now exports glyphs.

tukez · 11/04/08, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Levva

Tukez, a question came up in the SAA thread for the sim

Should users make sure they clear buffs like flametongue weapon buffs before using the values on their paper doll stats? In SAA export I warn users to remove all buffs (bar heroic presence which you cant remove). Its important I think to ensure people are entering the right values - or SAA is exporting the right ones but there is a lot of confusion about what updates the character sheet and what doesn't.

Export without any buffs. About the Heroic Presence, I want to make sure, that it does not show on paper doll as I have now assumed? If it doesn't show, everything is ok, also assuming that you removed the adding of Heroic Presence in SAA export, because sim handles it now.

Peragor · 11/05/08, 2:40 AM

When outputting a combat log I am not seeing any shocks.

lupohki · 11/05/08, 2:54 AM

Just thought I'd share that I see a small ~7 dps increase when I make my rotation ES-SS, rather than the normal SS-ES.

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         300
max_lag                         350
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              ES
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              2600/2600
armor_debuff_minor              610/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          306/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 150/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   19/19
agi_and_strength_buff           98/98
intellect_buff                  40/40

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    1
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    elixir_of_demonslaying
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       drums_of_battle

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          103.1
oh_dps                          107.9
mh_crit                         29.45
oh_crit                         29.45
mh_hit                          9.77
oh_hit                          9.77
mh_expertise_rating             112
oh_expertise_rating             112
ap                              2305
haste                           3.11
armor_penetration               18.64
str                             114
agi                             312
int                             257
spi                             128
spellpower                      691
spell_crit                      24.05
spell_hit                       12.21
max_mana                        6533
mp5                             8

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        windfury

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        berserkers_call
trinket2                        shard_of_contempt

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       skyshatter_harness_4

metagem                         relentless_earthstorm_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    0/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

Acks · 11/06/08, 2:39 PM

What are everyone's thoughts on statistical significance? with a p of .01, and dps at 70 being 2000-3500 depending on the fight, that would mean 20-35 dps difference to even consider making a real change based on the simulator, no?

I am just seeing too many posts here and on the wow general forums making the assumption that a 5 dps difference in the sim (3050 vs 3055) means the latter is superior, when i would consider anything within ~30 dps to be, for all intents and purposes, equal to another setup.

Is it safe to say that the simulator's significance is around 30dps? Or am i just confused? (<-- very possible)

Bargle · 11/06/08, 11:04 PM

Just curious, but were there any unlisted changes between v1.3.4 and 1.4.3 with regards to haste? Without changing any of my buffs/gear/EP steps/etc. my EP value for haste has dropped from 2.25 to 0.97. I looked over the changelog and didn't see any mentions of changes to haste calculations, which is why I'm confused. All of my other EP values are unchanged (aside from minor differences in the range of 0.05 or less).

namuras · 11/10/08, 5:38 PM

Is there any modelling for [Band of the Eternal Champion] and [Shattered Sun Pendant of Might]?

-Abakus- · 11/12/08, 2:42 PM

Something to consider:
Mage's Focus Magic isn't a spellpower buff anymore, despite being listed as such in EnhSim's tooltip.

xkaziex · 11/17/08, 4:25 AM

Question: I have been loading my results from the sim into Equivalencepoints, however i noticed that some people recommend pawn.

is there any real benefit to switch? (just wondering if anyone has used both).

Also, i missed this somewhere but how do you calculate EP on metasockets? or is there a flat value since we have always used 1 type of gem? (ENH).

Jheherrin · 11/17/08, 5:55 AM

Depends on the gem, but for the RED it is quite simple.

If we assume 33% crit rate, your crit damage will be approximately 50% of your total damage.
If you increase your crit damage by 3% you will increase your overall damage by 1.5%.

This also means that your dps will increase by 1.5%.
Find the AEP for 1.5% of YOUR dps, add the agility or crit AEP (depending on which diamond you use) from the diamond and you should reach an AEP for the diamond.

In TBC it was usually in the region of 70AEP for a RED.

It will obviously scale with your dps for Wrath.

Mjoedvitnir · 11/21/08, 2:39 PM

maybe a stupid question but i am the only one where the sim doesnt calculate the right expertise cap for lvl80? or isnt it updated to calculate the right stats for lvl80 yet?

Malan · 11/21/08, 2:45 PM

Make sure you're using the level 80 binary.

Mjoedvitnir · 11/21/08, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Make sure you're using the level 80 binary.

well, it is the lvl80 config - and all works well, except the expertise rating.

Malan · 11/21/08, 11:16 PM

No, not the level 80 config file, the level 80 executable.

Karok(EU) · 11/22/08, 8:36 AM

Even then it does not seem to check out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there is 6.5% dodge to remove through expertise.

It takes 32.78 rating to get -1% dodge/parry. 6.5x32.78 = 213.07.
Due to the way expertise is calculated (see tank) you get: 213.07/3.9423, take the floor of that and multiply with 3.9423 gives 212.8842. Or simply 213 expertise rating to cap.

The sim uses 132 expertise rating as cap, which would give ~-4% dodge.

tukez · 11/22/08, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Karok(EU)

Even then it does not seem to check out.
Correct me if I'm wrong but there is 6.5% dodge to remove through expertise.

It takes 32.78 rating to get -1% dodge/parry. 6.5x32.78 = 213.07.
Due to the way expertise is calculated (see tank) you get: 213.07/3.9423, take the floor of that and multiply with 3.9423 gives 212.8842. Or simply 213 expertise rating to cap.

The sim uses 132 expertise rating as cap, which would give ~-4% dodge.

Let me try:

It takes 32.78998947 rating to get -1% dodge/parry. 6.5%x32.78998947 = 213.134931555. Ceil that and you need 214 expertise rating to cap.

Gui warns if your exp rating + ep exp goes OVER the cap. So if you have 214 expertise it does not give you any warning, assuming that ep expertise is 0 and you don't get expertise from anywhere else(orc + axe). 215 gives warning, because you go OVER the cap. If both hand's expertise is at 214, gui says the test will be skipped, because ep value would be 0.

Btw, 3.9423 is for lvl 70 exp rating -> exp. Lvl 80 rate is 8.1974973675.

Mjoedvitnir · 11/22/08, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

No, not the level 80 config file, the level 80 executable.

its also the lvl80 exec. sim warns at 182 in the gui
no, no axes at procs and stuff configured.

//gui warns but it seems it calculates expertise right, so only a gui display bug.

tukez · 11/22/08, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by Mjoedvitnir

its also the lvl80 exec. sim warns at 182 in the gui
no, no axes at procs and stuff configured.

//gui warns but it seems it calculates expertise right, so only a gui display bug.

Default expertise ep range is 4, I think. 182 rating + 4 is close to the cap. So I guess you have 4 in ep expertise range.

Malan · 11/22/08, 6:29 PM

Tukez will you get support for Wrath trinkets and weapon enchants in soon?

tukez · 11/22/08, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Tukez will you get support for Wrath trinkets and weapon enchants in soon?

I have a busy examination week ahead of me. I'll do it after that.

Darkclaw · 11/23/08, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by xkaziex

Question: I have been loading my results from the sim into Equivalencepoints, however i noticed that some people recommend pawn.

is there any real benefit to switch? (just wondering if anyone has used both).

Also, i missed this somewhere but how do you calculate EP on metasockets? or is there a flat value since we have always used 1 type of gem? (ENH).

I use both