EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 35

hozzer · 12/02/08, 12:52 PM

With 192 expertise rating (23 exp), the sim is telling me I am over the cap. AFAIK, the cap is 26, so why am I getting this message?

ep_expertise                    4

Because this puts you at 27 expertise when calculating it's EP. Change to 2 or 3 and you should be fine.

edit - explained more thoroughly by Rounced below.

Rouncer · 12/02/08, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Unclejesse

With 192 expertise rating (23 exp), the sim is telling me I am over the cap. AFAIK, the cap is 26, so why am I getting this message?

The error message is that your EP value for expertise goes over the cap. EP works by adding the specified value to your stats and looking at the dps change. You specified 4 expertise for the EP calculations which is 32.79 expertise rating, so adding that to your 192 expertise rating brings you to 224.79 rating or 27.42 expertise which is over the cap.

edit - beaten by Hozzer

Unclejesse · 12/02/08, 5:43 PM

Ah I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Idk · 12/02/08, 8:03 PM

Bug report:

I'm having a problem where anytime I involve MWx_yy (any iteration of 1-5 for x and CL or LB for yy) in the simulator, the simulator appears to build up to 5 charges of maelstrom at which point it simply fails to do anything else. The resulting report shows just a few seconds worth of combat data even though the simulator runs to the end of the cycle. The example I'm providing is stripped down to provide a readable combatlog. If I set bloodlust_casters to 2 you'll see bloodlusts going up and fading for the entire 5 hour simulation window.

If I remove the MWx_yy listing from the rotation, the simulator works just fine.

I first experienced this problem trying to run the precompiled enhsim.exe using DarwineHelper. I figured it was a problem with darwine or some other platform issue. I built enhsim from source using boost and ZThreads on an i586 linux box and I'm seeing the exact same behavior that I saw under Darwine on OSX.

I suspect it may have to do with the double global cooldown entry at this point in the combat log:

0h 0m 8.68s Maelstrom Weapon stacks (5)
0h 0m 9.13s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 9.13s Casting started
0h 0m 9.13s Global cooldown off
0h 0m 10.66s Global cooldown off

Unfortunately, my c++ skills are nearly non-existent. I've done my best to try to diagnose the problem but I just can't read the code well enough to know where to start diddling.

I searched the thread for anyone else experiencing this issue.. I saw that Krish encountered something similar weeks ago but I didn't see any resolution to that issue.

I built enhsim using the Enhsim 1.4.6 source.

The configuration:

simulation_time                 1
simulation_time_combatlog       300
combat_length                   6
report_count                    1
threads                         2
min_lag                         20
max_lag                         80
simulate_mana                   0

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    3
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               0
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.00

arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              0/2600
armor_debuff_minor              0/610
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                0.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/306
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 0/150
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/19
agi_and_strength_buff           0/98
intellect_buff                  0/40

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    -
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          143.5
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         18.52
oh_crit                         18.52
mh_hit                          12.23
oh_hit                          12.23
mh_expertise_rating             70
oh_expertise_rating             70
ap                              2984
haste                           1.16
armor_penetration               5.26
str                             131
agi                             629
int                             533
spi                             154
spellpower                      1169
spell_crit                      13.45
spell_hit                       15.29
max_mana                        12111
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        -
trinket2                        -

totem                           -

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    lava_lash
glyph_major3                    stormstrike
glyph_major4                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

The output:

MH:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            0              0.00%
hit                 4              80.00%
crit                1              20.00%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          16.67%
procs/swings        16.67%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 2              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

OH:
miss                1              20.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            2              40.00%
hit                 2              40.00%
crit                0              0.00%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 6              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 1              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 2              100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 0              0.00%
crit                1              100.00%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 0.02

flurry uptime                  101.98%
unleashed rage uptime          0.08%
elemental devastation uptime   0.00%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              0.00%
oh enchant uptime              0.00%
trinket1 uptime                0.00%
trinket2 uptime                0.00%
totem uptime                   0.00%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%

                   MRPS without overregen
mana regen          0.00      nan%
mp5                 0.00      nan%
replenishment       0.00      nan%
unrelenting storm   0.00      nan%
judgement of wisdom 0.00      nan%
shamanistic rage    0.00      nan%
mana potion         0.00      nan%
misc potion         0.00      nan%

                   DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               0.30      34.77%    0.03
windfury            0.15      17.33%    0.00
flametongue         0.10      11.82%    0.02
stormstrike         0.06      6.5%      0.00      0.02      27.37%
lava lash           0.05      5.54%     0.00      0.01      13.68%
earth shock         0.21      24.04%    0.01      0.04      58.95%

DPS                 0.87
MPS                 0.07
MP2min              8.05
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5.00h
elapsed real time: 0.00s
simulation speed: -2147483648x

The combatlog:

0h 0m 0s        MH SS hit 689.589
0h 0m 0s        Maelstrom Weapon stacks (1)
0h 0m 0s        OH SS hit 331.626
0h 0m 0s        OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 0s        MH hit 689.589
0h 0m 0s        OH hit 331.626
0h 0m 0s        OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 1.54s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 1.54s     Earth shock hit 1866.05
0h 0m 2.47s     OH glancing 232.138
0h 0m 2.47s     OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 2.57s     MH hit 689.589
0h 0m 3.09s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 3.09s     Lava Lash crit 870.207
0h 0m 3.09s     OH Flametongue hit 306.578
0h 0m 3.09s     Flurry procs
0h 0m 3.09s     Unleashed Rage procs
0h 0m 4.52s     OH glancing 246.038
0h 0m 4.52s     OH Flametongue hit 315.325
0h 0m 4.61s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 4.67s     MH hit 730.892
0h 0m 4.67s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (2)
0h 0m 6.42s     OH hit 351.483
0h 0m 6.42s     OH Flametongue hit 315.325
0h 0m 6.42s     Flurry fades
0h 0m 6.71s     MH crit 1461.78
0h 0m 6.71s     Flurry procs
0h 0m 7.6s      Earth shock hit 1911.43
0h 0m 8.39s     OH miss
0h 0m 8.68s     MH hit 730.892
0h 0m 8.68s     MH WF hit 1361.49
0h 0m 8.68s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (3)
0h 0m 8.68s     MH WF hit 1361.49
0h 0m 8.68s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (4)
0h 0m 8.68s     Maelstrom Weapon stacks (5)
0h 0m 9.13s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 9.13s     Casting started
0h 0m 9.13s     Global cooldown off
0h 0m 10.66s    Global cooldown off
0h 0m 16.71s    Unleashed Rage fades
0h 0m 38.68s    Maelstrom Weapon fades

Is this a known problem? What do you recommend that I try?

Thank you in advance!

Honuk · 12/03/08, 1:43 AM

Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?

frozndevl · 12/03/08, 1:46 AM

Originally Posted by Honuk

Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?

Show us your config file so we can take a look at it. It may just be an errant value mucking up the works.

Utters · 12/03/08, 1:57 AM

Originally Posted by Honuk

Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?

Were you putting in a weight for wep speed and dps? I would assume no and as you know caster weps have all kinds of stats on them while melee ones are lacking. So that is the most likely culprit of the MH wep debacle. Also caster neck, ring and trinket's are often weighted high if they are high in hit and crit. And that weight seems normal for spell power, mine is 1.04 for comparison.

Honuk · 12/03/08, 2:07 AM

I did have weights for damage and speed inputed, yes. I could see some speed bug throwing off some of those weapon values, but the wraith strike is 2.60 speed; no amount of number fiddling is going to stop that from being a top three weapon for me.

I also tested double flametongue with a caster main hand and got comparable dps to WF/FT with any weapon combo you could care to name.

Darkclaw · 12/03/08, 2:31 AM

any chance of getting a bit more setup by step xCode setup and build help?

the info I read so far is still rather out there for a code noob...

Acks · 12/03/08, 12:30 PM

I was able to get a WWS parse of my Patchwerk combat logs from last night and compare the simulator with a real world example.

The simulator is giving me ~4700 dps estimates (I can post the config file when i get home if it is warranted).
Patchwerk shows me at ~3880 dps. So my concern is that if the simulator is off by ~20 percent, could this skew EP weights when I calculate them? And a bigger question would be: Are others seeing such large discrepancies between the sim and actual boss encounters?

Possibilities: Patchwerk armor/mitigation is different than stated in sim, the sim is off, WWS/recount are off, my raid mates were terrible at putting up buffs and/or I got extremely unlucky with crits.

My WWS

Rako · 12/03/08, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Honuk

Is anyone else getting spell damage values high enough to give some interesting results when EP values are plugged into something like lootrank? I know that during the beta one of Blizzard's goals was to make enhance shamans less likely to be interested in caster gear, but that hasn't really been born out for me. I get a spell power value of 1.1, which makes a fair amount of caster gear very desirable, especially cloaks, necks and, yes, main hand weapons. Sim plus loot rank are, in fact, giving me 25 man Kel'Thuzad's healing mace as the best weapon in the game. I ran the sim with that weapons stats over the stats of my current main hand (greed), and came out with a 150 dps increase. Is this normal? And if it is, shouldn't something be done about it?

I'm getting similar numbers. Right now SP is 1.22 and Int is 1.43 EP from the sim. Alot of the caster rings and necks are looking very good. Also several of the 2.5+ speed caster weapons. When running the sim over 50% of my damage is from spells. Maybe with more Naxx gear the scaling will go back toward AP. Also if Blizzard does increase the scaling on LB and make Manga totem tick for alot more then we will be doing even more spell damage. I know MT is costly for mana, but this week was my first 25 man Naxx run and I didnt need SR on a single fight, so the mana is thier, for me at least.

Rouncer · 12/03/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by Rako

I'm getting similar numbers. Right now SP is 1.22 and Int is 1.43 EP from the sim. Alot of the caster rings and necks are looking very good. Also several of the 2.5+ speed caster weapons. When running the sim over 50% of my damage is from spells. Maybe with more Naxx gear the scaling will go back toward AP. Also if Blizzard does increase the scaling on LB and make Manga totem tick for alot more then we will be doing even more spell damage. I know MT is costly for mana, but this week was my first 25 mana Naxx run and I didnt need SR on a single fight, so the mana is thier, for me at least.

Fast offhand favors higher spell damage values.

Caster rings and necks will always look good even when your gear gets better and you replace that offhand with a real enhancement weapon (slow/slow always and forever or until Blizzard makes it not so). But melee has some damn nice alternatives that are complete crap for casters so leave the rings and necks to the casters unless they are going to rot.

Spellpower runs about 0.9 value for me and Intellect is about 1.5 (gets 1.1AP from talents+kings and then there is the spell crit and increased mana pool to take into account as well) so your values aren't that far off.

Originally Posted by Acks

I was able to get a WWS parse of my Patchwerk combat logs from last night and compare the simulator with a real world example.

The simulator is giving me ~4700 dps estimates (I can post the config file when i get home if it is warranted).
Patchwerk shows me at ~3880 dps. So my concern is that if the simulator is off by ~20 percent, could this skew EP weights when I calculate them? And a bigger question would be: Are others seeing such large discrepancies between the sim and actual boss encounters?

Possibilities: Patchwerk armor/mitigation is different than stated in sim, the sim is off, WWS/recount are off, my raid mates were terrible at putting up buffs and/or I got extremely unlucky with crits.

My WWS

I get ~4600 from the sim and this weeks Patchwerk I ran 4300 dps so I consider the sim working as intended.

Was your raid fully optimized?

MMO-Champion RaidComp

If you are missing some buffs that you used in the sim or the buffs you used in the sim are of a greater value then you actually had it could easily cost you that much dps.

Edit - checked your parse and you are missing an Elemental Shaman or a Moonkin so you are losing the Spell Crit buff and a bunch of spellpower (assuming your resto shaman was dropping Flametongue so that you were in range of the totem) since there was no Totem of Wrath present.

Uncheck your Spell crit chance buff and change your Spellpower buff to whatever you were getting from Flametongue or from Demonic Pact (whichever is higher) since the default setting is for 280 which you only get from Totem of Wrath. So that would be a loss of 5% spell crit and probably 130 spellpower which should account for the difference seen between the parse and your sim results.

Also keep in mind that the Sim is perfect play, something that we all strive to emulate but that is basically impossible to obtain, that said also make sure that you are setting some latency into your settings since the default is 0 and no one ever gets to raid without any latency.

Rako · 12/03/08, 3:08 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Fast offhand favors higher spell damage values.

Caster rings and necks will always look good even when your gear gets better and you replace that offhand with a real enhancement weapon (slow/slow always and forever or until Blizzard makes it not so). But melee has some damn nice alternatives that are complete crap for casters so leave the rings and necks to the casters unless they are going to rot.

Spellpower runs about 0.9 value for me and Intellect is about 1.5 (gets 1.1AP from talents+kings and then there is the spell crit and increased mana pool to take into account as well) so your values aren't that far off.

I have ran sims and also used the test dumb and the 1.6 off-hand I'm using does alot more DPS then the slow off-hands I have access to. It will be replace as soon as I can, But even when I change the offhand speed to 2.6 in the sim, and leave all other number the same, I get very similar result: 1.18 SP and 1.35 Int. I dont plan on bidding on the cast items yet, but the fact that caster gear is as good and in some cases better then Melee gear is something we need to keep an eye on. One thing I have noticed is that ArP is pretty crappy for us and the stat is on a lot gear. While caster gear (DPS) dont waste points on stuff we dont need. I dont think AP is weighted the same way as SP on gear so should get more AP on items then they have SP for now.

Rouncer · 12/03/08, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rako

I have ran sims and also used the test dumb and the 1.6 off-hand I'm using does alot more DPS then the slow off-hands I have access to. It will be replace as soon as I can, But even when I change the offhand speed to 2.6 in the sim, and leave all other number the same, I get very similar result: 1.18 SP and 1.35 Int. I dont plan on bidding on the cast items yet, but the fact that caster gear is as good and in some cases better then Melee gear is something we need to keep an eye on. One thing I have noticed is that ArP is pretty crappy for us and the stat is on a lot gear. While caster gear (DPS) dont waste points on stuff we dont need. I dont think AP is weighted the same way as SP on gear so should get more AP on items then they have SP for now.

ArP is a crappy raiding stat but it will be very good for PvP so I wouldn't worry about it. It's just that the stat has barely any scaling with the other armor penetration buffs so if the mob is completely sundered and fairy fired each point of AP is worth more damage since there is less armor but since ArP works off percentages there is suddenly less armor to remove so it has a lesser effect, so it scales badly.

The items are itemized correctly, it's just that spellpower has value for us and so does intellect and so does hit and crit and even haste so a caster item will have value and will be good but an item perfectly itemized for melee (without ArP) will end up being even better for us then an equivalent ilevel caster item.

Rako · 12/03/08, 4:13 PM

I know this line of questioning is really done to death, but the more I look over my logs the less Slow only in off-hand is really the end all. I know for SS and LL slow off hand helps.

My logs give SS 6.5% and LL 3.5% of my damage. 66% of the SS damage is from the main hand so 1/3 of that damage is from the off-hand. So off hand speed is affecting 6% of my total damage.

Even with a slow off hand we lose only 1/3 of that damage. That is from the medium damage of a 1.6 and a 2.6 speed weapon. Thats losing about 2-2.5% from a slow offhand. But now that we have FT in the off hand we gain about 1.5-2% from FT. I tested this in the sim and it seems my numbers are correct.

Thats a total lose of about 1%. 1% is still 1% so slow off-hand is better, but with only a 1% difference the stats on the weapon might be more important then the actually speed. For a quick test just lower you off-hand speed in the sim by 1 and see how close you are. It just seems to me that with all thing equal slow is better but since when is all things equal.

Skiace · 12/03/08, 4:38 PM

Originally Posted by Rako

I know this line of questioning is really done to death, but the more I look over my logs the less Slow only in off-hand is really the end all. I know for SS and LL slow off hand helps.

My logs give SS 6.5% and LL 3.5% of my damage. 66% of the SS damage is from the main hand so 1/3 of that damage is from the off-hand. So off hand speed is affecting 6% of my total damage.

Even with a slow off hand we lose only 1/3 of that damage. That is from the medium damage of a 1.6 and a 2.6 speed weapon. Thats losing about 2-2.5% from a slow offhand. But now that we have FT in the off hand we gain about 1.5-2% from FT. I tested this in the sim and it seems my numbers are correct.

Thats a total lose of about 1%. 1% is still 1% so slow off-hand is better, but with only a 1% difference the stats on the weapon might be more important then the actually speed. For a quick test just lower you off-hand speed in the sim by 1 and see how close you are. It just seems to me that with all thing equal slow is better but since when is all things equal.

The other aspect missing from this is that slower weapons result in more MW procs. All in all, this is the reason you should use the sim to test possible weapon upgrades, because it's just so much simpler than trying to pin down a consistent rule to follow.

Rouncer · 12/03/08, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

The other aspect missing from this is that slower weapons result in more MW procs. All in all, this is the reason you should use the sim to test possible weapon upgrades, because it's just so much simpler than trying to pin down a consistent rule to follow.

QFT

A 2.6 speed weapon has a 43% chance for a MW proc on every Lava Lash and Stormstrike hit while a 1.6 speed weapon will only have a 27% chance.

I played with the Sim for you about weapon speeds.

Starting with my base stats 2.5/2.5 (which should work out in your favor since they are a bit fast to begin with but they are all that RNG has given me so far) I get 4790dps. Changing Weapon speed on the offhand to 1.6, I get 4744 dps. Doesn't seem like much does it?

So then I changed the weapon speed back up to 2.5/2.5 and started playing with the offhand dps and to get an equivalent level of dps I dropped down to a 114dps weapon which gave me 4746dps. So for dps calculations for an offhand weapon a 114dps 2.5 speed weapon is equal to a 143.6dps 1.6 speed weapon.

Vaeys · 12/03/08, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by Acks

I was able to get a WWS parse of my Patchwerk combat logs from last night and compare the simulator with a real world example.

The simulator is giving me ~4700 dps estimates (I can post the config file when i get home if it is warranted).
Patchwerk shows me at ~3880 dps. So my concern is that if the simulator is off by ~20 percent, could this skew EP weights when I calculate them? And a bigger question would be: Are others seeing such large discrepancies between the sim and actual boss encounters?

Possibilities: Patchwerk armor/mitigation is different than stated in sim, the sim is off, WWS/recount are off, my raid mates were terrible at putting up buffs and/or I got extremely unlucky with crits.

My WWS

Make sure you're putting in the right armour value - when I re-downloaded the sim yesterday and starting fiddling with it, it had the boss AC at ~7k, not the ~13k it is in Wrath. (see one of the boss armour value threads)

Nevets_69 · 12/04/08, 2:45 AM

So as I'm looking to the future, and much needed weapon upgrades, I started sim'ing some of the different alternatives for off hand weapons. The general opinion is slow is better, but as I started looking closer, I noticed something peculiar, and I was hoping for a second opinion from the community.

Here is my config file. This is setup with my current stats, but I changed the main hand weapon DPS to match [Calamity's Grasp], and the off hand weapon DPS to 156.4 (a common value for a variety of possible off hands [Angry Dread],[Anarchy],[The Hand of Nerub],[Webbed Death]).

simulation_time                 5000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         150
max_lag                         250
simulate_mana                   1

ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    -16
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    9
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    200

rotation_priority_count         5
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           10850
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            spice_hot_talbuk
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          171.3
oh_dps                          156.4
mh_crit                         29.94
oh_crit                         29.94
mh_hit                          11.38
oh_hit                          11.38
mh_expertise_rating             215.00
oh_expertise_rating             215.00
ap                              3476
haste                           2.10
armor_penetration               9.22
str                             139
agi                             775
int                             503
spi                             162
spellpower                      1042
spell_crit                      22.94
spell_hit                       14.22
max_mana                        11661
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      -
oh_enchant                      -

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        sphere_of_the_red_dragons_blood
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           -

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                1/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

So with the generally accepted theory is that slower is better. Unfortunately a 2.6s OH weapon with 156DPS is not available until Arena Season 5 begins. But here are the results since that is the base I started with:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1626.88   37.78%    78.89
windfury            607.29    14.1%     6.50
flametongue         358.15    8.32%     48.97
stormstrike         286.31    6.65%     6.21      20.83     28.22%
lava lash           149.03    3.46%     6.99      8.45      11.44%
earth shock         444.00    10.31%    7.92      16.67     22.58%
lightning bolt      647.43    15.04%    8.09      27.88     37.76%
lightning shield    186.90    4.34%     8.60      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4306.00
MPS                 73.82
MP2min              8858.68
MRPS                73.62
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 5000.00h
elapsed real time: 16.36s
simulation speed: 1100311x

So I started looking at alternatives, and what I found was somewhat surprising.

Here is a summary of the results:

MH/OH         DPS
2.6/2.6        4306.00   <- Not available until Season 5 starts
2.6/2.5        4269.50
2.6/2.2        4260.30   <- Does not exist
2.6/2.0        4265.70   <- Does not exist
2.6/1.8        4271.90
2.6/1.6        4285.02
2.6/1.4        4312.88

So while the 2.6/2.6 setup does seem to be good, it isn't yet possible. Among the available alternatives, the faster the better.

Now I've noticed from sim'ing my gear repeatedly, that using 2.6 vs 2.5 speed weapons seems to land me on the endge of a haste rating plateau. That is, I get large values for haste when using 2.6 speed weapons, and near zero (or even negative) values when using 2.5 speed weapons.

Anyway, I was hoping that someone could take a look and either confirm these results or find a mistake that I've made.

Slainor · 12/04/08, 5:11 AM

i think the Sim is correct cause the sim tells me i'm doing 5146 dps with no lag and in my last Patchwerk kill i did 5029 dps

Wow Web Stats

and here my gear The World of Warcraft Armory

sry for my bad english

Utters · 12/04/08, 5:24 AM

Originally Posted by Slainor

i think the Sim is correct cause the sim tells me i'm doing 5146 dps with no lag and in my last Patchwerk kill i did 5029 dps

Wow Web Stats

and here my gear The World of Warcraft Armory

sry for my bad english

I notice you are specced 3/3 imp shields over the 5th point in elemental fury and the point in elemental focus. Does this sim out higher for you? I am just curious to see what other people are getting out of the sim for best specs and that is one that I haven't seen yet.

Slainor · 12/04/08, 8:45 AM

hm, i didn't sim this before but you're right with 2/3 imp shields and 5/5 elemental fury it's a dps gain by 50

Rouncer · 12/04/08, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by Nevets_69

So while the 2.6/2.6 setup does seem to be good, it isn't yet possible. Among the available alternatives, the faster the better.

Now I've noticed from sim'ing my gear repeatedly, that using 2.6 vs 2.5 speed weapons seems to land me on the endge of a haste rating plateau. That is, I get large values for haste when using 2.6 speed weapons, and near zero (or even negative) values when using 2.5 speed weapons.

Anyway, I was hoping that someone could take a look and either confirm these results or find a mistake that I've made.

I appreciate all the work you've done with the post and I've tried to look for flaws in what you input into the sim or in your results and I can't really find any besides maybe that you haven't added any weapon enchants (guessing you are using a weapon chain or the 50AP enchants which is why nothing is selected since they would show on the paperdoll).

The results I posted above are also from the Sim so I'm not really sure what is going on except to suggest that we are a very complicated class and there are numerous levels of certain stats that can play havok with our expected results. Ask Toots about the haste plateus that occur when using WF only on the mainhand and you will see what I am talking about, or look back through this thread and see the shaman who was getting a huge EP value for +hit after the spell hit cap because he had so little expertise that anything that increased his melee hit rate was a huge boost.

We aren't simple to figure out and that is the thing I love the most about Enh Shaman theorycraft. All I can suggest is to use Rawr and the Sim to try and work out what is and what is not an upgrade ahead of time so you don't end up grabbing something that actually decreases your dps but that would have been an upgrade for someone else in your raid.

Nevets_69 · 12/04/08, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

I appreciate all the work you've done with the post and I've tried to look for flaws in what you input into the sim or in your results and I can't really find any besides maybe that you haven't added any weapon enchants (guessing you are using a weapon chain or the 50AP enchants which is why nothing is selected since they would show on the paperdoll).

I actually have the 26agi enchant on my weapons for now. Waiting for something a little better before I get Berzerking since [Abyss Crystal] are so scarce for the time being.

Originally Posted by Rounced

The results I posted above are also from the Sim so I'm not really sure what is going on except to suggest that we are a very complicated class and there are numerous levels of certain stats that can play havok with our expected results.

Yeah, as a side note, I am at the expertise and hit caps, and I get an EP of 3 for both hit and crit. My EP values don't change much at all as I vary weapon speeds. I was worried that switching to a faster offhand would seriously alter my EP values, but was pretty happy to see that it didn't.

Originally Posted by Rounced

Ask Toots about the haste plateus that occur when using WF only on the mainhand and you will see what I am talking about, or look back through this thread and see the shaman who was getting a huge EP value for +hit after the spell hit cap because he had so little expertise that anything that increased his melee hit rate was a huge boost.

Has this been discussed within this thread? I follow it pretty closely, but don't remember seeing any really conclusive results on the WF plateau. Guess I'll do a search, but a link would be appreciated.

Malan · 12/04/08, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Nevets_69

Has this been discussed within this thread? I follow it pretty closely, but don't remember seeing any really conclusive results on the WF plateau. Guess I'll do a search, but a link would be appreciated.

Shaman: Enhancement

Anyone found a situation yet where Stonebreakers totem is NOT better than level 80 relics?