EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 37

Rouncer · 12/06/08, 4:14 PM

Originally Posted by mjgunn

Ok, I've found something a little strange with the sim. Been playing with my build a bit to work static shock in, since I've been unable to even give my mana away during raids no matter how hard I try. Using the sim, I find that if I drop Elemental Focus, it's a huge loss in dps, around 500. But if I drop the point from Shamanistic Focus, my DPS goes up 100. And this is with no other difference between the builds. Is this a fluke, I don't understand why my dps would possibly go up doing that.

P.S. Here's the build I'm looking at. If I put in the sim I have EF and SF, my dps is 4550ish,4kish with just SF, and 4650ish with just Elemental Focus. Shouldn't it be highest with both of them?

It's because you have the little mana button checked and without Elemental Focus you end up with periods of no mana which is horrible for sustained dps. If you mana really is never a concern then uncheck that box and rerun your values.

Oh and it's not an issue with the sim being wrong or anything like that, the defaults on the sim are for 6 minutes of sustained dps and even with replenishment (and no mana pots) that can be rough on some builds. The reason that isn't what you are experiencing is that there are no current raid fights with 6 minutes of sustained dps, most fights are 3-4minutes or they have breaks where your natural regen is active and you get closer to being able to use Shamanistic Rage while not spending mana.

mjgunn · 12/06/08, 5:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

It's because you have the little mana button checked and without Elemental Focus you end up with periods of no mana which is horrible for sustained dps. If you mana really is never a concern then uncheck that box and rerun your values.

Oh and it's not an issue with the sim being wrong or anything like that, the defaults on the sim are for 6 minutes of sustained dps and even with replenishment (and no mana pots) that can be rough on some builds. The reason that isn't what you are experiencing is that there are no current raid fights with 6 minutes of sustained dps, most fights are 3-4minutes or they have breaks where your natural regen is active and you get closer to being able to use Shamanistic Rage while not spending mana.

I'll do that, though I assume then the dps numbers should be the same across the board then since mana won't be taken into account, no?

One thing I don't get though, if it's taking mana into account, why wouldn't DPS be highest with both mana cost reduction talents?

Mindrila · 12/06/08, 5:55 PM

Originally Posted by tukez

I couldn't find Enhancer's EP string. Could someone post it here, so I can add it as default to enhsim_ep_export.txt

I have written a small java tool for building the mean value of EP Stats out of multiple runs and give me an import string for Equivalence Points. I used the Session Import which has following format (for our relevant stats):

^1^T^SMANAREG^N[mp5]^SATTACKPOWER^N[ap]^SINT^N[int]^SSTR^N[str]^SCR_ARMOR_PENETRATION^N[arp]^SEMPTY_SOCKET_META^N[metabonus]^SCR_EXPERTISE^N[expertise]^SCR_HIT^N[hit]^SSPI^N[spirit]^SAGI^N[agi]^SCR_HASTE^N[haste]^SSPELLPOWER^N[sp]^SCR_CRIT^N[crit]^t^^

Just replace the [ ] with the according stat. It's also worth noting, that Equivalence Points calculates BoK itself, so all base stats should be divided by 1.1 to give correct numbers.

Rouncer · 12/06/08, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by mjgunn

I'll do that, though I assume then the dps numbers should be the same across the board then since mana won't be taken into account, no?

One thing I don't get though, if it's taking mana into account, why wouldn't DPS be highest with both mana cost reduction talents?

Probably because Elemental Focus is active just about constantly in a raiding situation and affects shocks and Lightning Bolts and Chain Lightning. Do you have MW5CL in your priority list? If you do that could easily explain the results you are seeing.

tukez · 12/07/08, 8:37 AM

1.4.9
-Fixed export string bug. Spellpower was set as attack power value.
-Fixed export string rounding bug.
-Added consumables from this list EnhSim, DPS simulator which were not in the sim. Thanks to Ardonomus for making that list.

Roflmeow · 12/07/08, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by tukez

So I did my research and I think you need to install this package:

Download details: Visual C++ 2008 Redistributable Package (x86)

Tell me if it works.

The above fixed my issue

Hey guys.

I'm getting the following error when trying to run the sim on Vista 64. Based on what i see from the log the sim is not compatible with x64?

Error:
The application has failed to start because its side-byside configuration is incorrect.  Please see the application event log for more detail.


Event log detail:
Log Name:      Application
Source:        SideBySide
Date:          12/7/2008 9:33:47 AM
Event ID:      33
Task Category: None
Level:         Error
Keywords:      Classic
User:          N/A
Computer:      PC
Description:
Activation context generation failed for "C:\Users\username\Desktop\enhsim\enhsimgui.exe". Dependent Assembly Microsoft.VC90.CRT,processorArchitecture="x86",publicKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",type="win32",version="9.0.21022.8" could not be found. Please use sxstrace.exe for detailed diagnosis.
Event Xml:
<Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
  <System>
    <Provider Name="SideBySide" />
    <EventID Qualifiers="49409">33</EventID>
    <Level>2</Level>
    <Task>0</Task>
    <Keywords>0x80000000000000</Keywords>
    <TimeCreated SystemTime="2008-12-07T14:33:47.000Z" />
    <EventRecordID>749</EventRecordID>
    <Channel>Application</Channel>
    <Computer>wilby-PC</Computer>
    <Security />
  </System>
  <EventData>
    <Data>Microsoft.VC90.CRT,processorArchitecture="x86",publicKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",type="win32",version="9.0.21022.8"</Data>
  
    <Data>C:\Users\wilby\Desktop\enhsim\enhsimgui.exe</Data>

</Event>

Radditz · 12/07/08, 11:01 AM

same stats just pressed calculate ep few times...:

baseline                                      2467.36
ap                        1.00      0.23      2482.36        15.00
crit rating               2.69      0.63      2496.31        28.96
hit rating                1.44      0.34      2477.49        10.13
expertise rating          3.50      0.82      2494.27        26.92
haste rating              2.05      0.48      2483.25        15.89
armor penetration rating  1.80      0.42      2473.69        6.33
spellpower                1.15      0.27      2474.90        7.54
mh dps                    6.01      1.41      2481.44        14.09
oh dps                    2.10      0.49      2472.28        4.92
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.88
intelligence              -0.69
spirit                    -0.06     -0.01     2465.88        -1.47
mana                      -0.13     -0.03     2461.21        -6.15
mp5                       -0.52     -0.12     2464.90        -2.46

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      2462.84
ap                        1.00      0.36      2485.67        22.84
crit rating               2.08      0.74      2496.97        34.14
hit rating                1.60      0.57      2480.02        17.18
expertise rating          2.39      0.85      2490.81        27.97
haste rating              1.63      0.58      2482.07        19.23
armor penetration rating  1.01      0.36      2468.22        5.38
spellpower                1.18      0.42      2474.59        11.75
mh dps                    5.40      1.93      2482.10        19.27
oh dps                    2.43      0.87      2471.49        8.66
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.70
intelligence              1.94
spirit                    0.17      0.06      2469.02        6.18
mana                      0.04      0.02      2465.91        3.07
mp5                       1.15      0.41      2471.06        8.23

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      diffe

baseline                                      2463.70
ap                        1.00      0.33      2484.97        21.27
crit rating               2.02      0.67      2494.61        30.91
hit rating                1.57      0.52      2479.38        15.68
expertise rating          2.63      0.87      2492.34        28.64
haste rating              1.84      0.61      2483.90        20.20
armor penetration rating  1.69      0.56      2472.11        8.41
spellpower                1.41      0.47      2476.81        13.11
mh dps                    5.30      1.76      2481.32        17.62
oh dps                    2.50      0.83      2472.00        8.30
strength                  1.00
agility                   1.66
intelligence              1.04
spirit                    0.21      0.07      2470.71        7.00
mana                      -0.02     -0.01     2462.65        -1.05
mp5                       1.16      0.39      2471.44        7.74

some numbers are really different. using 1.4.9... just get the mean value from those 3?
config:

simulation_time                 3000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   3
report_count                    80
threads                         4
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    0
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       700
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              SR
rotation_priority2              MW5_LB
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              LL
rotation_priority6              LS

miss                            9.00
dodge                           6.50
glancing                        25.00
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.00
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              0/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          0/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   0/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  0/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            -
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          143.6
oh_dps                          143.6
mh_crit                         21.12
oh_crit                         21.12
mh_hit                          13.72
oh_hit                          13.72
mh_expertise_rating             115
oh_expertise_rating             115
ap                              3130
haste                           0
armor_penetration               0
str                             129
agi                             639
int                             383
spi                             153
spellpower                      1213
spell_crit                      15.03
spell_hit                       17.15
max_mana                        9861
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mirror_of_truth
trinket2                        -

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       -

metagem                         -

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    lightning_shield

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

rastotem · 12/07/08, 12:03 PM

A got a newbie question, how often should i check&update the ep value? every item? was also wondering about the basic ep values set in the gui, the amounts it check for variation, do i need to change it or just leave it?

Skiace · 12/07/08, 12:52 PM

Shouldn't the ep value of int never be lower than 1.0, or 1.1 with kings?

I understand that what's happening is the sim takes a run with more mana and due to the RNG can come up with a lower dps number, thus giving the mana portion of int a negative value. But there should be a hard cap in place if this happens, i.e. the sim should know that this isn't realistic and report a default value of 1.0 or 1.1.

Rouncer · 12/07/08, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

Shouldn't the ep value of int never be lower than 1.0, or 1.1 with kings?

I understand that what's happening is the sim takes a run with more mana and due to the RNG can come up with a lower dps number, thus giving the mana portion of int a negative value. But there should be a hard cap in place if this happens, i.e. the sim should know that this isn't realistic and report a default value of 1.0 or 1.1.

except that Intellect also gives spell crit which has value

Think about it this way, why is Agi worth more the 1.1 with kings. Because you get melee crit from each point of Agi. Intellect gives spell crit and since half of our dps is spells now that has value. It's not as good as Agi since it takes 2 points of Intellect to give as much spell crit as 1 point of Agi gives in melee crit.

Xoya · 12/07/08, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

except that Intellect also gives spell crit which has value

Think about it this way, why is Agi worth more the 1.1 with kings. Because you get melee crit from each point of Agi. Intellect gives spell crit and since half of our dps is spells now that has value. It's not as good as Agi since it takes 2 points of Intellect to give as much spell crit as 1 point of Agi gives in melee crit.

That's not what he's asking. He's asking why Int is sometimes showing up as less than 1.0 or 1.1 (with King) in the sim, when that should be the absolute minimum due to Int adding to AP now.

Triper · 12/07/08, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Radditz

same stats just pressed calculate ep few times...:

Your simulation run time is way too short for calculating EP values. I usually run mine at 100,000 hours.

Nevets_69 · 12/07/08, 1:55 PM

Edit: Xoya beat me to it. Delete this post.

Levva · 12/07/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by tukez

I made an export string for Lootrank. So can EquivalencePoints also import this? Add this to the enhsim_ep_exports.txt.

http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=$strength&mh=$haste&dps=$mhdps&mp5=$mp5&mcr=$crit&odps=$ohdps&spd=$spellpower&Agi=$agility&mhit=$hit&Int=$intelligence&Spi=$spirit&map=$attackpower&arp=$armorp&Exp=$expertise

I noticed a minor rounding bug in exporting. On screen, values are rounded normally, but export strings truncate the values, I think.

Looks like EquivalencePoints import routine for any imports is bugged, it isn't understanding Armour Penetration and Spellpower. I can have a look at some point about fixing this. For now that format of LootRank string looks fine though I'd add

&s1=2.4&s3=2.4

at the start to force min MH & OH weapon speeds to 2.4 perhaps even 2.5 should be used.

BTW any support for Meta gem EP values in output.

Rouncer · 12/07/08, 3:11 PM

Originally Posted by Xoya

That's not what he's asking. He's asking why Int is sometimes showing up as less than 1.0 or 1.1 (with King) in the sim, when that should be the absolute minimum due to Int adding to AP now.

Oh, sorry about misreading it. I've never had that happen before (the Int showing as low in value not the misreading part).

Guessing the 3 points in Mental Dexterity aren't selected.

tukez · 12/07/08, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Oh, sorry about misreading it. I've never had that happen before (the Int showing as low in value not the misreading part).

Guessing the 3 points in Mental Dexterity aren't selected.

Intelligence EP value is calculated from attack power(Mental Dexterity), spirit(mana regen), mana and mp5(Unrelenting Storm). Negative values on some of these lowers the intelligence value too.

Mindrila · 12/07/08, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by Levva

Looks like EquivalencePoints import routine for any imports is bugged, it isn't understanding Armour Penetration and Spellpower. I can have a look at some point about fixing this. For now that format of LootRank string looks fine though I'd add

&s1=2.4&s3=2.4

at the start to force min MH & OH weapon speeds to 2.4 perhaps even 2.5 should be used.

BTW any support for Meta gem EP values in output.

Well at least the version of EQP I have does a woderful job importing my session strings.
If you import something it is saved as a new set with status hidden, so you have to unhide it to see it.
There is a bug which prevents loading sets into the actual set to change the values manually. You have to set all values to a random value and then load the set.

^1^T^SMANAREG^N0.34561224489795916^SATTACKPOWER^N1.00^SINT^N2.199350649350649^SS
TR^N1.00^SCR_ARMOR_PENETRATION^N0.8462857142857143^SEMPTY_SOCKET_META^N65.967000
00000001^SCR_EXPERTISE^N2.664571428571428^SCR_HIT^N1.163^SSPI^N0.314192949907235
56^SAGI^N1.557012987012987^SCR_HASTE^N1.336857142857143^SSPELLPOWER^N1.162285714
2857141^SCR_CRIT^N1.6181428571428569^t^^

I imported this string just a few hours ago.

Skiace · 12/07/08, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Oh, sorry about misreading it. I've never had that happen before (the Int showing as low in value not the misreading part).

Guessing the 3 points in Mental Dexterity aren't selected.

I have had int EP show up as less than 1, and even negative with both kings and Mental Dexterity selected. The issue is negative values from mana etc as tukez pointed out.

Smokestomp · 12/08/08, 1:00 PM

Post Deleted

Rako · 12/08/08, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by Skiace

I have had int EP show up as less than 1, and even negative with both kings and Mental Dexterity selected. The issue is negative values from mana etc as tukez pointed out.

This should get fixed then. Intel should never be less then 1 with Metal Dexterity. Also why would any score ever give a negative value. Their is no stat or value that should lower another stats usefullness below a certain piont. If your crit % is over 50% agl might be worth less but still should never dip below 1.1 (with kings).

tukez · 12/08/08, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Rako

This should get fixed then. Intel should never be less then 1 with Metal Dexterity. Also why would any score ever give a negative value. Their is no stat or value that should lower another stats usefullness below a certain piont. If your crit % is over 50% agl might be worth less but still should never dip below 1.1 (with kings).

If increasing a stat results in negative DPS, it will get a negative EP value. Rare, but possible.

Im not going to add any fail safes to check does some EP values make sense, because how can the sim possibly know, for example when some negative value is correct or incorrect? If you get results you didn't expect, then you notice something went wrong when calculating EP values. If I added limits for some of the stats, you wouldn't notice anything and would use bad EP values happily.

Usually, when you get negative EP values, it is not correct. You are probably using too short simulation runtime or too low EP ranges.

tukez · 12/08/08, 3:36 PM

1.5.0
-When mana simulation is disabled, spirit, mana and mp5 EP tests are skipped automatically.
-Fixed a bug with armor penetration consumables.

I have been building this website for EnhSim: EnhSim: Welcome to EnhSim homepage. There are some useful guides and you can also download EnhSim through that site. The website is not completely done yet, but at least the EP value guide is good reading for many people.

If someone wants to help me out with this site, you are welcome.

Skiace · 12/08/08, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Rako

This should get fixed then. Intel should never be less then 1 with Metal Dexterity. Also why would any score ever give a negative value. Their is no stat or value that should lower another stats usefullness below a certain piont. If your crit % is over 50% agl might be worth less but still should never dip below 1.1 (with kings).

If you'd actually read my initial post, you'd see how mana-related stats can easily give negative EP values just from RNG fluctuations.

Rako · 12/08/08, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by tukez

If increasing a stat results in negative DPS, it will get a negative EP value. Rare, but possible.

Im not going to add any fail safes to check does some EP values make sense, because how can the sim possibly know, for example when some negative value is correct or incorrect? If you get results you didn't expect, then you notice something went wrong when calculating EP values. If I added limits for some of the stats, you wouldn't notice anything and would use bad EP values happily.

Usually, when you get negative EP values, it is not correct. You are probably using too short simulation runtime or too low EP ranges.

How would increasing any stat result in a lowering of DPS. Its even shown that increasing haste even to the "special" levels will not lower dps. I can understand how some stats will not raise DPS. But maybe I'm missing something if a stat increase can lower DPS? Can you give me any stat or even a sitution in the sim where a increase would lower overall dps.

Personal I have never seen a sim run where any increase has does this, but if its possible I would know how or even why?

EDIT:
Just saw the post above mine. I run the sim with mana turned off. So except for mana fuctionations it should not happen?

tukez · 12/08/08, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Rako

How would increasing any stat result in a lowering of DPS. Its even shown that increasing haste even to the "special" levels will not lower dps. I can understand how some stats will not raise DPS. But maybe I'm missing something if a stat increase can lower DPS? Can you give me any stat or even a sitution in the sim where a increase would lower overall dps.

Personal I have never seen a sim run where any increase has does this, but if its possible I would know how or even why?

EDIT:
Just saw the post above mine. I run the sim with mana turned off. So except for mana fuctionations it should not happen?

I was thinking about those haste levels. Some people have gotten negative values from haste. I'm not sure though, was it because of RNG or not.