EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 40

draizen · 12/11/08, 6:24 AM

Originally Posted by tukez

I believe it's a bug in Pawn, I have noticed the same thing and I think sometimes Pawn just ignores the DPS value on some weapons.

The low ep on some weapons arent a bug in pawn, this weapons are not MH or OH, thats the problem for pawn. in this cases it takes the normal dps, not MH nor OH dps. since enhsim just gives us MH and OH dps, normal dps value should be empty in most cases.
You can copy your first pawn profile, name it MH and copy the MH-dps into normal weapon dps, same for OH.
its not the best solution since you got 3 values for normal items, but you dont got to add the weapon dps yourself.
sry for my bad english i hope you get the point

aers · 12/11/08, 9:05 AM

Originally Posted by Vesham

I'm having an odd problem when I try to use the simulator. Forgive me if this has already been covered in a previous post, but when I try to simulate my current stats, the simulator doesn't include melee damage. No matter what I change to my melee stats, the dps stays at 1350dps or so. The only time this changes is when I increase spell damage or crit, so I'm assuming the simulator is only simulating spellcasts. How can I change this?

Make sure MH and OH autoattack are on; either under "Rotation and Misc" if you use the GUI or "mh_auto_attack 1" and "oh_auto_attack 1" in a config file.

If they're actually on it sounds like a bug of some sort.

Daenerys · 12/11/08, 1:44 PM

Originally Posted by Vesham

I'm having an odd problem when I try to use the simulator. Forgive me if this has already been covered in a previous post, but when I try to simulate my current stats, the simulator doesn't include melee damage. No matter what I change to my melee stats, the dps stays at 1350dps or so. The only time this changes is when I increase spell damage or crit, so I'm assuming the simulator is only simulating spellcasts. How can I change this?

Make sure you're not prioritizing any casts that are not MW procs. I did that the first time I fiddled with the sim (think I had LB priority instead of LL by accident), so all it did was chain cast LB.

Rouncer · 12/11/08, 3:23 PM

Nerfbat incoming.

Tukez would you mind creating a separate version of the sim to reflect the proposed changes on the PTR (separate exe files) so we can see how the nerf is potentially going to affect us.

For people who haven't seen it yet.

Mental Quickness: Reduced the mana cost of instant cast Shaman spells by 2/4/6% and increases spell power by an amount equal to 23/46/70% of your agility.

is listed in the PTR patch notes.

WoW -> Test Realm Patch Notes

That's about a 50% reduction in static spellpower and a substantial nerf to our spell damage while raiding considering Battleshout, Unleashed Rage and all the AP trinkets will no longer affect how much spellpower we have.

No need to QQ until we get real numbers though.

Kamileon · 12/11/08, 5:00 PM

I'd be really interested in seeing a new sim with the change to see what it does to values of agi relative to AP and such. My latest simming already puts agi at about 1.8.

I'm less concerned about my overall damage, since I'm the Enh buffbot and already doing less than total potential because I have to bring UR and Imp WF to the raid, as well as doing a lot of pitch in heals from MW, as I am worried about how the spellpower change will affect the utility of the extra healing and in a pinch stuff I do a ton of in 5s and 10s, as well as how I should be choosing gear/gems etc.

Suryaa · 12/11/08, 5:39 PM

Shaman: Lava Lash - Fixed a bug which allowed you to use the ability even if you had a shield in offhand. Now requires a 1hand axe, fist or dagger to be able to be used.

Hmm mace?

Zyla · 12/11/08, 5:57 PM

Man, that enh nerf seems way over the top. :<

I'm gonna try to modify the sim to get some rough estimates of dps loss, and I'll be back here to post what I found.

Quick and dirty sim run: (some values of the raid buffs are not accurate (level 70 versions I believe) I was too lazy to update them again to get a sense of things there, perhaps some of it is made back up but:

First is a normal parse with my values seen in my profile armory link, with the old mental quickness. The second is me manually dialing down my spell power (a net loss of ~500 SP) and removing my talent points in the sim from MQ.

Of course this is a very imprecise and quick and dirty comparison, the numbers speak for themselves.

Rouncer · 12/11/08, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by Zyla

Man, that enh nerf seems way over the top. :<

I'm gonna try to modify the sim to get some rough estimates of dps loss, and I'll be back here to post what I found.

I did some playing with the current sim - basically just unspec mental quickness and then change your spellpower value to what you would get from raidbuffed agility (incl Kings and Mark basically - this won't work if you are using a Darkmoon: Greatness card btw).

We lose about 10% of our dps (~250) solo and unbuffed and about 11% of our current dps in a fully raid buffed situation (~500), based on my rough hackage.

Other then that (lol) it's really not a bad change since it does fix the issue with the need to sim the hell outta offhand weapons to determine upgrades (since fast ones were starting to near the value of slow ones due to Flametongue scaling with all the AP and Haste that is available). It also opens up some room for them to give us personal buffs to go with Unleashed Rage and Improved Windfury Totem. Maybe they will even use it as an opportunity to finally do something about the hidden cooldown on Windfury Weapon.

I can say that this does change the math for Weapon Enchants, without some other changes Goose is back since this change would make it worth 212EP (based on my very rough hackage) compared to Berzerkers 208EP.

Zyla · 12/11/08, 6:26 PM

I kinda hope we get something else to help. I do agree it was completely ridiculous to have 2k spell damage raid buffed as well as having like 5k ap, just from a sense of numbers, but it seemed in line with their "vision".

I suppose the bottom line is that we're still fine but it feels pretty harsh.

Seems like it also makes the Darkmoon card undeniably best in slot.

Rouncer · 12/11/08, 6:35 PM

Originally Posted by Zyla

I kinda hope we get something else to help. I do agree it was completely ridiculous to have 2k spell damage raid buffed as well as having like 5k ap, just from a sense of numbers, but it seemed in line with their "vision".

I suppose the bottom line is that we're still fine but it feels pretty harsh.

Seems like it also makes the Darkmoon card undeniably best in slot.

The change isn't about us, the change is about nerfing the Ele/Enh spec that was debunked as crap awhile back.

aers · 12/11/08, 7:21 PM

Doing the same thing Zyla did to test the nerf, I'm going from 5173 to 4473 on the sim, which is something like 13.5%.

I guess I need to get a Greatness card now.

Timewasted · 12/11/08, 9:14 PM

I updated the sim with the PTR changes, and adjusted my spell power down from 1077 to 620 (3592 AP, 885 agi), and the result was only a 250 DPS loss.

Live:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1618.75   33.81%    82.92
windfury            599.32    12.52%    6.28
flametongue         505.22    10.55%    51.74
stormstrike         292.40    6.11%     6.67      36.76     28.11%
lava lash           168.51    3.52%     8.18      16.35     12.51%
earth shock         577.84    12.07%    8.65      30.82     23.57%
lightning bolt      798.80    16.69%    8.23      46.82     35.81%
lightning shield    226.67    4.73%     0.78      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4787.53
MPS                 130.75
MP2min              15689.47
MRPS                101.04
Out of mana time    0.03%

PTR:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1616.26   35.69%    82.91
windfury            600.80    13.27%    6.29
flametongue         443.87    9.8%      51.71
stormstrike         292.45    6.46%     6.67      36.76     28.10%
lava lash           168.41    3.72%     8.18      16.34     12.49%
earth shock         516.05    11.4%     8.65      30.83     23.57%
lightning bolt      690.51    15.25%    8.25      46.89     35.84%
lightning shield    200.21    4.42%     0.79      0.00      0.00%

DPS                 4528.58
MPS                 130.82
MP2min              15698.15
MRPS                101.03
Out of mana time    0.03%

This is my first time actually looking at the source, so it's possible that there's still some AP --> spellpower conversion that I didn't remove, or AGI --> spellpower conversions that I didn't add, but I'm reasonably confident that I didn't miss anything.

Edit: None of this matters anyways, since Blizzard changed their mind about changing Mental Quickness already.

Zyla · 12/11/08, 9:19 PM

It's been reverted!

Malan · 12/11/08, 10:30 PM

I love the fact that I told Blizz during Beta that they needed to move MQ further down the tree to fix that stupid Elemental spec.

Radditz · 12/12/08, 7:28 AM

quick question for enh spelldamage input.. should i input spelldamge without or with FT applied

Ardonomus · 12/12/08, 8:14 AM

Regarding the negative haste values.

I just downloaded the newest sim and figured I'd finally redo my EP values, but when I did I had a negative value for haste (and expertise, but that's because I sat expertise to -10).

I fiddled around a little with it, and I noticed I had a very low (but not negative!) value for haste when I checked the Naxx_melee_2 setbonus. However, I got a negative value when I used the Naxx_melee_4 bonus. Could it be an issue with these bonuses or flurry, or is it simply as people have suggested, RNG?

Pitbuller · 12/12/08, 12:03 PM

Negative haste value is problem of windfury cd. When main hand goes down 1.5s wf procs goes down. Becouse mongoose isn't allways up there is about 4% range where haste have reduced value. This value can be also negative. Try without haste buffs, passive haste, mongoose and flurry using 1.5s main hand. Then run sim. You will get negative haste value for sure becouse effective Wf proc goes down at 16.66% to 14.28%.

phasedweasel · 12/12/08, 1:21 PM

Originally Posted by Zyla

It's been reverted!

Can you link the source on that, please?

Acks · 12/12/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by phasedweasel

Can you link the source on that, please?

Source

Worth noting the change to the LB glyph insofar as the next iteration of EnhSim is concerned:

Glyph of Lightning Bolt -- No longer affects cost. Now increases damage by 4%.

Source

Tanfel · 12/12/08, 8:54 PM

Hi everyone,

I am kind of new at this forum so sorry for that maybe stupid question.

I cant run the simulator, because my Computer still has no SSE2, so i wanted to ask, if it is possible to get it run in any other ways or if there are simple alternatives to it.

Thanks

aers · 12/12/08, 8:56 PM

From PTR 3.0.8 Build 9355 :

Glyph of Windfury Weapon - Increases the chance per swing for Windfury Weapon to trigger by 5%. (Old - The attack power bonus on the additional attacks granted by Windfury Weapon is increased by 40%.)

Lumb · 12/13/08, 7:44 AM

Hey tukaz, just to let you know:

You've listed the trinket "Bandit's_Insignia" as "Bandits_Insignia", and as a result it doesn't appear automatically when you export from ShockAndAwe

Leviathon · 12/13/08, 9:23 AM

Originally Posted by aers

From PTR 3.0.8 Build 9355 :

I can see the glyph change being a hint to them changing WF to mainhand only and removing the cooldown.

Pitbuller · 12/13/08, 9:54 AM

New wf glyph will boost singe wield wf damage about 15.4-20%. This is about ~2% dps increase. Math behind these numbes are simple. After all haste effect with slower than 1.5s weapon we actual proc chance is 16.666% and with that glyph it's 20%. If main hand hit faster than 1.5s then numbers are 14.44% and 16.66%.
0.2 / 0.1666... = 1.2
0.16666... / 0.1444... = 1.1538

Then if wf damage is about 10-15% total damage this give about ~2% damage increase. Increased wf hits also give some benefit to damage I can guess this is around +1%. Much better that before.

Staticus · 12/13/08, 5:17 PM

Would this also make totem of splintering more viable too? (still carrying stonebreakers and have yet to see dueling drop in naxx)