EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 51

Michmich · 01/23/09, 6:01 AM

I have currently a resto spec, but i would like tu use the sim for a enh one.

1) Is there an option in the sim which, given the correct talents, would correct the value given by the paper doll with a 0/0/0 spec ?
For example, my gear gives me 10% hit, but Dual Wield Specialization would potentially gives me 6% more hit.

2) Is there an option in Shock and Awe to "negate" the effects on the paper doll of a current spec ?
For example, I have 5/5 in Ancestral Knowledge, but I would like to run the sim with only 3/5 AK. Is Shock and Awe able to correct my intellect ?

Maybe my question is irrelevant because respecing is relatively cheap today (but it would be a nice new feature anyway).

I also would like to have some explanations about ep_ap,ep_hit_rating,ep_expertise, etc.
When calculating EP values for hit rating, the sim add ep_hit_rating_ep to my current hit and recompute a fight (and the difference between the original dps and this one gives the ep value) ?
I cannot infer the best value in the config file. Is it the smallest one ?

Malan · 01/23/09, 10:01 AM

Yes for DW spec no for things like Thundering Strikes, No, Yes and No.

panny · 01/23/09, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Did some testing.

Searing Totem 16.7% coefficient per attack
Magma Totem 10% coefficient per attack
WF/WF proc rate is 45.5% per weapon

Naked Parse with 139 spellpower and 2/2 Call of Fire
Wow Web Stats

In normal gear with 1096 spellpower with 2/2 Call of Fire
WWS Loading...

Normal gear, turned sideways, with the glyph - 200 LLs
WWS Loading...

Did a little playing around with Splintering. Looks like it does work as intended but even with a 3.8 speed weapon it's hard to really see much of an effect.

Do you mean Call of Flame 2/3 or 3/3?

Rouncer · 01/23/09, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by panny

Do you mean Call of Flame 2/3 or 3/3?

Sorry 2/3, I'll edit the post.

Malan · 01/23/09, 11:11 AM

The gains that magma totem got this patch are pretty crazy. I'd put it at a 300 DPS improvement over Searing Totem on single target dps. Several fights in Naxx last night it was my 3rd/4th highest source of damage.

jonnaei · 01/23/09, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

The gains that magma totem got this patch are pretty crazy. I'd put it at a 300 DPS improvement over Searing Totem on single target dps. Several fights in Naxx last night it was my 3rd/4th highest source of damage.

I noticed the same differences Malan, having subbed out my searing totem entirely for magma totem. This, also, with 0 points in call of flame.

Protico · 01/23/09, 11:34 AM

Sadly at 1/3 the duration and 4x the mana this totem isn't as great for any fight which is otherwise mana intensive in any way. We typically don't have mana issues, but any fight during which I cast more than one or two heals (Saph, Sarth, etc.) Magma was causing me to go OOM up to 20 seconds before SR was up. Magma might be good for certain single target DPS fights (Patchwerk) but for a lot of them we will have to stick with Searing.

jonnaei · 01/23/09, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Protico

Sadly at 1/3 the duration and 4x the mana this totem isn't as great for any fight which is otherwise mana intensive in any way. We typically don't have mana issues, but any fight during which I cast more than one or two heals (Saph, Sarth, etc.) Magma was causing me to go OOM up to 20 seconds before SR was up. Magma might be good for certain single target DPS fights (Patchwerk) but for a lot of them we will have to stick with Searing.

The only fight I was unable to keep Magma totem up on last night for a full Naxx and EoE clear was Grobbulus. Raid-buffed and with replenishment I rarely go below 8k or 9k mana in my 14k mana pool with refreshing Magma totem every 15 seconds or so or earlier with a free GCD. Having to throw oneself heals isn't something I would take into consideration for a min/maxing perspective just like water shield is an atypical situation. It was not hard for me to keep magma totem active whatsoever with the exception of a few times I forgot to refresh it.... I'm still getting used to keeping it down. The only thing that will get me to use searing now is excessive movement.

ncervantes · 01/23/09, 12:56 PM

I have a question regarding totems. Currently I'm using stonebreakers totem because it sim's higher than my totem of splintering. But with the recent change to windfury glyph, what are your thoughts on the totem of splintering. With that 5% chance to hit increase, will that in theory out perform the stonebreakers totem now?

Protico · 01/23/09, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by jonnaei

The only fight I was unable to keep Magma totem up on last night for a full Naxx and EoE clear was Grobbulus. Raid-buffed and with replenishment I rarely go below 8k or 9k mana in my 14k mana pool with refreshing Magma totem every 15 seconds or so or earlier with a free GCD. Having to throw oneself heals isn't something I would take into consideration for a min/maxing perspective just like water shield is an atypical situation. It was not hard for me to keep magma totem active whatsoever with the exception of a few times I forgot to refresh it.... I'm still getting used to keeping it down. The only thing that will get me to use searing now is excessive movement.

I would say throwing oneself a heal isn't atypical in a min/max raid, because one of the things being pushed off the roster is a often a healer. On 3 drake Sarth I use MW weapon for healing myself about once every 3-5 5 stacks, simply because we run with 2 healers and there are so many opportunities to take random damage. I suppose this change will be a YMMV type thing, situation use based on what the player feels is right, but I don't think anyone can argue that 1114 mana every 20 seconds is an insubstantial amount, that is 6684 mana every SR cooldown, or 1/2-1/3 a mana pool.

jonnaei · 01/23/09, 4:04 PM

Originally Posted by Protico

I would say throwing oneself a heal isn't atypical in a min/max raid, because one of the things being pushed off the roster is a often a healer. On 3 drake Sarth I use MW weapon for healing myself about once every 3-5 5 stacks, simply because we run with 2 healers and there are so many opportunities to take random damage. I suppose this change will be a YMMV type thing, situation use based on what the player feels is right, but I don't think anyone can argue that 1114 mana every 20 seconds is an insubstantial amount, that is 6684 mana every SR cooldown, or 1/2-1/3 a mana pool.

On 10-man 3D OS I can agree that you may need to throw a self heal now and then, though it helps to just stay out of Fire Walls and Void zones and have an uber pally tank for those adds. But I always have a ret pally and never really go below half of my mana pool so I'm pretty confident I have ample mana to throw heals. And on boss fights in general, I don't have any need to self-heal. I don't know if you lack a ret pally or what, but I am always very long on mana. Before the fix to magma totem I rarely burnt through 2k mana before SR came up and I can't imagine not having ample mana for off-heals.

BTW, when I say min/maxing it is referring to max output for typical situations and I would say, at least for my guild's raids, that having to heal myself is very atypical. There are outliers such as 3D sartharion, but for our general purposes magma totem is quite sustainable with our mana pools and regen (notice that there are no healing spells in the priority rotation on the sim). Burning through 6884 extra mana every 2 minutes is a non-issue on a boss fight when I end up with less than 8k or so mana in an SR cycle.

And I, unfortunately, don't run with an spriest; that would further nullify the mana argument.

EndallUSDW · 01/23/09, 7:03 PM

Alright so to me it seems the tread has sorta gotten off track a bit so I am gonna bump it in the right direction a tiny bit.

I've been running a lot sims lately and I've been getting a very high Expertise EP (~3.00+) value despite having way over what I need. Unless things have changed and I am not up on the uppity then from what I know is that I only need 6.5% expertise when hitting from the back, I currently have 8.25%. (Yes I know I have too much, but I am just preparing for other gear that will eventually even it out.)

Anyways here are my EP values:

baseline                                      5251.84
ap                        1.00      0.54      5273.43        21.59
crit rating               1.76      0.95      5270.80        18.95
hit rating                2.02      1.09      5273.66        21.82
expertise rating          3.17      1.71      5265.87        14.03
haste rating              1.58      0.85      5268.85        17.01
armor penetration rating  0.55      0.30      5257.78        5.94
spellpower                0.78      0.42      5261.97        10.12
mh dps                    6.37      3.44      5277.63        25.79
oh dps                    3.21      1.73      5264.83        12.99
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.89
intelligence              1.31
spirit                    0.01      0.00      5252.24        0.40
mana                      -0.00     -0.00     5251.83        -0.01
mp5                       0.29      0.16      5255.00        3.16

I've tried changing the EP values in the EnhSimGUI for expertise down to 1, but I get the same values. Only time it changes is if I move it to zero, in which case i get a zero value.

Rouncer · 01/23/09, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by EndallUSDW

Alright so to me it seems the tread has sorta gotten off track a bit so I am gonna bump it in the right direction a tiny bit.

Post your config file we can't tell you anything from what you have posted.

EndallUSDW · 01/23/09, 10:15 PM

The EnhSimGUI Config?

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           40
ep_crit_rating                  20
ep_hit_rating                   20
ep_expertise                    1
ep_haste_rating                 20
ep_armor_penetration_rating     20
ep_spellpower                   24
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               2
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       250
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    500

rotation_priority_count         6
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           7700
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               
shadow_resistance               

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              1260/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.00/13.00
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            orc
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         27.49
oh_crit                         27.49
mh_hit                          10.92
oh_hit                          10.92
mh_expertise_rating             33
oh_expertise_rating             33
ap                              3467
haste                           4.61
armor_penetration               0
str                             131
agi                             790
int                             447
spi                             0
spellpower                      1314
spell_crit                      19.97
spell_hit                       13.65
max_mana                        10821
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        mark_of_norgannon
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_4

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    earth_shock

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             3/5
improved_shields                0/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      2/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   0/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   5/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

Staticus · 01/23/09, 10:31 PM

Expertise rating (~272 in your case) needs to be entered rather than the expertise value (33 in your case) you see on the paper doll.

Malan · 01/23/09, 11:19 PM

Also this -

ep_expertise                    1

is bad unless you really know what you're doing.

Tukez I think that the EP steps need a big warning in the bundled config files as such:

*****************************
DO NOT FUCK WITH THIS SECTION
******************************
EP Step stuff
***********************************
FEEL FREE TO FUCK WITH ANYTHING ELSE
***********************************

EndallUSDW · 01/23/09, 11:48 PM

I see! Well I was putting in the "RATING" which is 33 not the expertise points. Only reason I fucked with that sections is because the values were not coming out how I knew they should be!

Totentanz · 01/24/09, 2:56 AM

In my latest Naxx run I was high on aggro during most of the boss fights.
I don't know if it's my guild's tanks that aren't very good, but I had to wind shock very often and even stop in certain situations.
Could be useful to add threat in the simulator (considering we have threat reduction on melee abilities and not on spells?)

Rouncer · 01/24/09, 3:45 AM

Originally Posted by EndallUSDW

I see! Well I was putting in the "RATING" which is 33 not the expertise points. Only reason I fucked with that sections is because the values were not coming out how I knew they should be!

You do realize that it's 33 Expertise which breaks down to 272 Expertise Rating, right? Maybe you should go get a clue before spouting attitude.

EndallUSDW · 01/24/09, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Rounced

You do realize that it's 33 Expertise which breaks down to 272 Expertise Rating, right? Maybe you should go get a clue before spouting attitude.

Well I can say that you have enough attitude for the both of us, because I wasnt "sprouting" anything there killer. Chill. I hadn't noticed this before prior to your comment that the tool tip in the armory is different than the tool tip in game. If you scroll over the expertise stat in the armory it says that the "Expertise Rating" is the small number vs the ladder in game.

Broshious · 01/24/09, 3:56 PM

One question I have related to the expertise stuff, is why is the EP for expertise based on actual expertise points while you enter in rating? If you're one rating away from another expertise point will that throw off the expertise EP?

Rouncer · 01/24/09, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Broshious

One question I have related to the expertise stuff, is why is the EP for expertise based on actual expertise points while you enter in rating? If you're one rating away from another expertise point will that throw off the expertise EP?

Yes.

Expertise only works in steps so if you were to have the EP steps in rating and the rating change stuck you between two Expertise values then a chunk of it would be doing nothing. Meaning your EP values would be very inaccurate.

Read the TTT for a more indepth explanation, Shaman: Enhancement

Dragon-CR · 01/24/09, 6:37 PM

I posted some of this a few pages back but at the time it was only PTR data and nothing official, but it is live now.

Engineering got a substantial boost in 3.0.8 making it a much more viable profession for min/maxing.

Hyperspeed Accelerators received about a 2.5x boost in effectiveness going from an 8 second duration/2 minute cooldown to 10 second duration/1 minute cooldown. The tooltip still says 2 minutes but the actual cooldown on the gloves is 60 seconds. Does not share a CD with trinkets so it can be popped in conjunction. Would be nice to simulate the actual use effect instead of just adding ~57 passive haste due to the strange WF chasm.

[Gnomish Lightning Generator] was changed to no longer interupt the swing timer making it substantially better for melee since it is also not on the GCD. It does have a 1 second cast or charge time however this "cast" can happen inside of the GCD of another ability, for example ES followed 1 second later by a GLG discharge, then a LL ~0.5sec later. Unfortunately does not get the benefit of storm strike but does receive benefits from other buffs/debuffs on the target and can crit (I saw ~30% crit rate over 60+ casts in the 10man I tried it in). Even with those changes I doubt it's worth much except for entry level raiding though.

[Saronite Bomb] is an interesting choice, esp for shamans, now that they've been made dirt cheap with [Box of Bombs]. They can crit and have a fairly large range and give us an occasional source of badly needed AOE damage (I've seen a 13mob hit for ~18k total). And like the above items they are also off the GCD, no cast time, and don't reset the swing timer, so even if you just have a single target, using them is a free pop for ~2k raid buffed/debuffed every 60 seconds.

The bulk of this might be better off in the TTT thread I'm not sure, the only update I'd request for the EnhSim would be the Hyperspeed Accelerators, I'm not sure if you've implemented the tailoring embroidery in there yet either but those would be valid to add as well, esp the melee cloak enchant. Effectively a 3rd (or 4th for engineer/tailors) trinket slot for these proc/use enchants.

Urgok · 01/25/09, 1:13 AM

Has anyone else noticed a disconnect between the expertise rating that you input and the melee dodge % in the output?

Specificaly;166 rating results in a dodged rate of .25%. That translates out to roughly 204 rating and not 166.

Also, the "over the expertise cap" message occurs at 182 rating and not 213.

Only looked at the MH and OH entries. Draenei shaman 5000 hours simulated time, version 1.5.

Edit...

Originally Posted by Malan

Expertise doesn't have anything whatsoever to do with miss to begin with, maybe that's your issue.

You are correct I have mislabeled things in my haste last night. I mistakenly put down Miss% when I meant to referenced attacks that had been dodged.

To be absolutely clear, if you input an Expertise rating of 166 and simulate for 5000 hours you get a dodged percentage of .25%, this roughs out to 204 rating and not 166 rating. Boss dodge percentage is 6.5 using the draenei setting.

I apologize for wasting a page of space, and decided to move my responses back here.

I was too busy to notice it at the time but the + Expertise value set under the EP tab is 4 not 32, so the over the cap message is inappropriate with your explanation.

Originally Posted by Rounced

Is the message you get "EP expertise goes past cap with MH. EP expertise goes past cap with OH"

Notice the EP portion of that message?

If that is not the message then link your config file and I'm sure we'll be able to tell you what you are doing wrong. If that is the message you are getting and you still don't understand what is going on then I can't help you because eugenics is considered unethical in most countries.

I am not attempting to get advice here, I think I've found a bug. Or I do not understand fully how the simulator works, perhaps it is assigning extra rating. I don't know. I have not changed any values aside from the character input, and the simulation time.

Rouncer · 01/25/09, 1:15 AM

Originally Posted by Urgok

Has anyone else noticed a disconnect between the expertise rating that you input and the melee miss % in the output?

Specificaly;166 rating results in a miss rate of .25%. That translates out to roughly 204 rating and not 166.

Also, the "over the expertise cap" message occurs at 182 rating and not 213.

Only looked at the MH and OH entries. Draenei shaman 5000 hours simulated time, version 1.5.

182 + 32 (4 Expertise) = 214 = capped