EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 81

Lucentia · 05/12/09, 4:24 PM

Even though your not simulating mana... you have your MP5 at 0... its possible that might be messing something up, since its also giving you very very high values for MP5

the DPS sim looks like it has properly ignored mana, but it would seem the EP simulation has not.

OnosKT · 05/12/09, 4:32 PM

You are basically running out of mana in the view of the EP calculator. It is a bit weird since you disable simulate mana (and this is why the simulator runs fine), but it looks like the EP calculator does not take that into account.

That config has two issues - you are not using spirit wolves or shamanistic rage. Enable SW and SR in the GUI and put them at the top.

Are you sure you are using that config though? I've just run the posted config in my EnhSim and this is what I get

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5895.24
ap                        1.00      0.58      5932.48        37.24
crit rating               1.82      1.06      5944.02        48.78
hit rating                1.65      0.96      5924.02        28.78
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
haste rating              2.05      1.19      5934.57        39.33
armor penetration rating  1.75      1.02      5910.51        15.27
spellpower                1.00      0.58      5911.48        16.24
mh dps                    5.66      3.29      5928.17        32.93
oh dps                    2.95      1.71      5912.38        17.14
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.73      
intelligence*             1.41      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -5895.24

zomghax · 05/12/09, 4:33 PM

It's also giving you a value of 3.25 for Hit even though you've told it that you have 17% spell hit AND a spell hit buff in the raid. Sorry to state the obvious but something is goofy. Are you sure that the GUI is looking at the 1.7.0 executable? (bottom right hand corner)

Zensai · 05/12/09, 4:53 PM

Yea, I'm positive I'm using that config, and I verified that I'm pointing to the 1.7 exe. Even the output says 1.7... Below is same config for me with SR/SW enabled.

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1835.59   29.74%    78.68
windfury            752.68    12.2%     6.43
flametongue         523.19    8.48%     50.16
stormstrike         414.56    6.72%     6.74      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           350.67    5.68%     8.46      16.77     10.11%
magma totem         519.17    8.41%     2.70      50.27     30.30%
earth shock         611.94    9.92%     9.55      38.56     23.24%
lightning bolt      902.33    14.62%    9.67      57.57     34.69%
spirit wolves       261.56    4.24%     0.33      2.75      1.66%

DPS                 6171.69
MPS                 165.93
MP2min              19911.12
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 20.54s
simulation speed: 1753104x

And the EP calc.

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6171.70
ap                        1.00      0.60      6210.27        38.57
crit rating               1.79      1.08      6221.23        49.53
hit rating                1.47      0.89      6198.35        26.66
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
haste rating              1.92      1.16      6209.96        38.27
armor penetration rating  1.52      0.92      6185.48        13.79
spellpower                0.87      0.52      6186.32        14.62
mh dps                    5.42      3.27      6204.38        32.68
oh dps                    2.75      1.66      6188.28        16.59
strength                  1.10
agility                   1.72
intelligence*             1.41
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6171.70

So does that mean there is a bug in EnhSim when your not using SW/SR for EP.

OnosKT · 05/12/09, 5:07 PM

Nope, my run was with your posted config (no changes to it). The fact that expertise was so high and that it was simulating mana suggests to me that something happened when the config was loaded.

grouch · 05/13/09, 7:20 AM

Originally Posted by zomghax

I am running a series of simulations (v 1.7.0) in my current gear, replacing my melee Haste value with every Haste value from 0% to 25% in 0.5% increments. So far what I am seeing is that there are a large number of "cold spots" between 8% Haste and 16% Haste where the EP value will drop below 1.5. After that it seems to pick back up again. I'm not really ready to post my results yet because I'm not done; even doing 5000 hour sims it still takes time to do 51 of them.

By just doing a rough EP sim, and I can already see this "cold spot", between 8% haste and 15% haste. I'd be interested in your results as I do not have time to do 51 5000 hour sims.

Haze · 05/13/09, 8:34 AM

I recently got Stonerender (1.6 speed, 178.8 DPS OH) and simmed it to compare my dps upgrade over Pride (2.5 speed, 143.6 DPS OH) and after various sims i discovered that trading Pride for Stonerender would give me 120 DPS loss. I did not see anyone giving such a clarified statement about OH Speed, and by stonerender being very superior to pride, i think it's safe to conclude that for Enhancement Shamans, there is ONLY slow weapons.

Levva · 05/13/09, 8:43 AM

From reading the description of Meta Gem damage it seems that it should change the crit damage multiplier for melee from 2 to 2.03 ie: physical crits instead of doing double damage (ie: +100% damage) they do 103% extra damage.

Is this correct?

If it is correct then the v1.7.0 of the Sim has a fairly serious bug as it is multiplying by 1.03 onto the existing 2.00 giving a physical_crit_multiplier of 2.06 ie: 6% bonus crit damage.

I've not properly checked spell_crit_multipler however the code for metagems does

        physical_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.03f;
        spell_crit_multiplier_ *= 1.03f;

So I suspect spell_crit would similarly suffer as I have observed values of 2.09 for spell_crit_multiplier.

If I have misunderstood the meta gem effect and the sim is accurate I do apologise in advance for the confusion. I'm seeing clarification here so we can get it fixed if it is an issue.

Edit: Check out [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond] if you click on the bonus effect you get to Increase Critical Damage 3% - Spell - World of Warcraft now note the effect :

Apply Aura: Mod Crit Damage Bonus (Melee) (895)
Value: 3

This is a side issue but does Relentless Earthsiege really only give 3% bonus MELEE crit? and not also 3% bonus spell crit? Has anyone tested this? EnhSim & Rawr.Enhance both assume 3% melee & spell crit and so both may be wrong, or Wowhead may be wrong.

IMB111 · 05/13/09, 8:56 AM

If the tooltip is correct then the formula in the sim is correct as well.
The wording for a dmg multiplyer of 2.03 would be "3% Increased Critical Strike Damage Bonus" like Lethality - Spell - World of Warcraft for example.

Raut · 05/13/09, 9:36 AM

You can't put too much faith in tool-tips being correct. Small variations like that can be meaningful, sometimes not.

A test on live would be to calculate the theoretical max damage from a crit with a 203% multiplier and for 206%. If you get a hit within 203-206 the latter is the correct one. This probably means you should go in with an empty spec, no weapon enchants, no proc abilities and such to make the max values more complex to calculate.

MatsT · 05/13/09, 12:45 PM

This has already been tested back at 70 and afaik the result was that the bonus increases the final damage by 3%, i.e. 200% dmg -> 206% dmg, 230% dmg->236.9% dmg. More information can be found for examle here.

cordelliia · 05/13/09, 1:30 PM

With a pre-Ulduar almost BiS gearset, spell-hit capped, Sim Results are giving values of Hit ~1.5 and Crit ~1.7.
This seems to match some of the other Sim results in this thread.

However, looking through a WWS parse, and calculating hit and crit effects yields a vastly different result: Hit is roughly 40% the relative value of Crit.

WWS parse used: Wow Web Stats

Percent DPS increase from 1% hit or 1 hit rating:

White hits:  1686 @ 793 avg (non-crit hits + glancing), and 1513 @ 1854 (crit), 816 @ 693 (glancing), 245 Misses, 58 Parries.

Avg non-crit white hit damage = (1686*793-816*693)/(1686-816) = 887

White hit weighting:  1854 @ .43 (crit), 887 @ .25 (normal), 693 @ .23 (glancing), 0 @ .07 (miss), 0 @ .017 (parry)
  Total:  1178

If hit is increased by 1%:
White hit weighting:  1854 @ .43 (crit), 887 @ .26 (normal), 693 @ .23 (glancing), 0 @ .06 (miss), 0 @ .017 (parry)
 Total: 1187
 %-increase: 0.78%

White hits are 28% of total DPS from that WWS.
Total Increase in DPS due to 1% hit increase: 0.22%

Total Increase in DPS due to 1 hit rating (32.79 rating = 1% hit): 0.00669 %
(above spell hit cap)

Percent DPS increase from 1% crit or 1 crit rating:

Firstly, calculate a formula for the % increase in dps from an ability when the ability (a) cannot miss, (b) is not crit-capped: 
Critical Hit: c  @ r, where c = avg crit amt, and r = crit rate expressed as proportion
Normal Hit: n  @ 1- r, where n = avg normal hit amt.

Value of 1% crit =

(.01 + r)c+(.99-r)n
------------------------
r*c+(1-r)*n

Secondly, list all abilities that fall under this criteria:
From the All Bosses WWS:
Ability: n,c,r
Magma Totem: 748,1572,.31
Windfury: 1939,4028,.42
Earth Shock: 2585,5429,.36
Flametongue: 445,937,.36
L.Bolt: 3683,7443,.32
Stormstrike: 875,1860,.43
C.Lightning: 2492,5528,.32
Lava Lash: 1157,2432,.43
Searing Totem: 632,1342,.32

Thirdly, also calculate values for white swing (converts one hit into crit, at a lower rate b/c of misses and glancings)

Fourthly, sum up all these increases:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=r5sWM1yb9oTVQDZJzBZlDIw&hl=en

Total Increase in DPS due to 1% crit increase: 0.007576365406625 = 0.76%

Total Increase in DPS due to 1 crit rating: 0.000165026473679 = 0.0165%

Therefore 1 hit rating above spell cap = 0.40 crit rating at this gearing level.
This means that crit rating is roughly 2.5x as valuable as hit rating.

Or, if crit = 1.7 EP, then hit = 0.7 EP

This differs from the sim value by a factor of 2:1.

Any ideas what's going on? Am I doing something wrong in the WWS theorycraft, or is the sim off?

Ouktaar · 05/13/09, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by cordelliia

Any ideas what's going on? Am I doing something wrong in the WWS theorycraft, or is the sim off?

I don't see where you are factoring in the additional Flametongue, Static Shock, and Maelstrom Weapon damage from having additional white swings hit.

cordelliia · 05/13/09, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ouktaar

I don't see where you are factoring in the additional Flametongue, Static Shock, and Maelstrom Weapon damage from having additional white swings hit.

Thanks, that explains it.

Reposting:

Total Increase in white DPS due to 1% hit increase: 0.22%

1% hit increases melee hits by 1.1%, increasing FT, MW, and SS, as well:
FT is 9% of total damage, LB & CL are 12% of total damage, and SS is 4% of total damage. Total: 25%

Total DPS increase from FT, MW, and SS: 0.27%

Total White + Spell Dmg increase from 1% hit rating: 0.49%


Total Increase in DPS due to 1 hit rating (32.79 rating = 1% hit): 0.01509 %
(above spell hit cap)

Total Increase in DPS due to 1 crit rating: 0.000165026473679 = 0.0165%

Once additional flurry uptime and elemental devastation effects are factored in, crit probably moves up a little bit more, matching the sim values.

Zensai · 05/13/09, 4:14 PM

EnhSim 1.7.0 ...

I'm running the sim with my actual gear. I've ran it several different ways with the glyphs that I'm using, with no glyphs, and with single glyphs to sim out the DPS gains. For some reason everytime I sim with no Glyphs and with Lightning Shield Glyph they come out to be the same DPS.

Base DPS without Glyphs:
6205 DPS : Totem of Hex
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame

Lightning Shield Glyph:
6204 DPS : Totem of Hex (-1 DPS of Base Hex)
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame (Equal to Base Flame)

Any idea why this would sim the same?

zomghax · 05/13/09, 4:17 PM

Originally Posted by Zensai

EnhSim 1.7.0 ...

I'm running the sim with my actual gear. I've ran it several different ways with the glyphs that I'm using, with no glyphs, and with single glyphs to sim out the DPS gains. For some reason everytime I sim with no Glyphs and with Lightning Shield Glyph they come out to be the same DPS. This leads me to believe because of the T8 bonuses, that the 20% is not being applied for both but just once.

Base DPS without Glyphs:
6205 DPS : Totem of Hex
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame

Lightning Shield Glyph:
6204 DPS : Totem of Hex (-1 DPS of Base Hex)
6189 DPS : Totem of Dancing Flame (Equal to Base Flame)

Any idea why this would sim the same?

Do you have 'LS' enabled in your cast rotation? Posting your config file will enable us to actually help you rather than speculate.

Zensai · 05/13/09, 4:34 PM

wow.... ignore me... I missed that... now I have to redo all my large sim's on my glyph posting

here is my config though for my gear and setup

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   6
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           64
ep_crit_rating                  46
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 33
ep_armor_penetration_rating     15
ep_spellpower                   28
ep_dps                          10.0
ep_mana                         200
ep_spirit                       100
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LS
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LL

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/687
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             13.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 165/165
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/51
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         33.11
oh_crit                         33.11
mh_hit                          11.34
oh_hit                          11.34
mh_expertise_rating             143
oh_expertise_rating             143
ap                              4104
melee_haste                     7.73
armor_penetration               12.34
str                             135
agi                             904
int                             530
spi                             155
spellpower                      1231
spell_crit                      26.72
spell_hit                       14.18
spell_haste                     5.95
max_mana                        12066
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        40256

totem                           totem_of_hex

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41398

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    lightning_bolt
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Vlyxnol · 05/13/09, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by Zensai

wow.... ignore me... I missed that... now I have to redo all my large sim's on my glyph posting

here is my config though for my gear and setup

min_lag 0 ~~~~~~~~ Should represent your actual lag ingame
max_lag 0 ~~~~~~~~Should represent your actual lag ingame

rotation_priority_count 9
rotation_priority1 SW
rotation_priority2 SR
rotation_priority3 MW5_LB
rotation_priority4 ES_SS
rotation_priority5 SS
rotation_priority6 ES
rotation_priority7 LS
rotation_priority8 MT ~~~~~~~~ Your magma totem does less damage than Lightning shield?
rotation_priority9 LL

armor 10645 ~~~~~~~~~Should be 13083

spellpower_buff 165/165 ~~~~~~~ should be 280 Totem of Wrath - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

potion - ~~~~~~~~~~Not using Haste Potions?

Rouncer · 05/14/09, 2:08 AM

Originally Posted by Vlyxnol

armor 10645 ~~~~~~~~~Should be 13083

spellpower_buff 165/165 ~~~~~~~ should be 280 Totem of Wrath - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

potion - ~~~~~~~~~~Not using Haste Potions?

Mr. Squiggly, first off it should be 10645 as of patch 3.1; please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else.

Next, if he doesn't have an Elemental Shaman but has a Resto Shaman then it should be 165 unless he has a Demo Lock and then the number becomes much more variable.

Why would anyone use Haste pots when Speed pots are available?

Levva · 05/14/09, 9:31 AM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Mr. Squiggly, first off it should be 10645 as of patch 3.1; please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else.

Ah Mr Rouncer/Rounced, its actually 10643!!! The initial calculations have been refined to this new "far more accurate"

figure as that extra 2 armour removed will make a huge difference to your dps.

Tempted to say "please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else." but you were almost right.

Anyway onto the real reason for my post. F.A.O. Tukez : I've added support in Rawr.Enhance v2.2.4 for the following EnhSim config options : combat_length, flask_elixir, guardian_elixir, bloodlust_casters, potion, food

Can you amend the copy from clipboard in v1.7.1 to expect these options on a Rawr import. v2.2.4 should be released tonight.

Zaurok · 05/14/09, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Levva

Ah Mr Rouncer/Rounced, its actually 10643!!! The initial calculations have been refined to this new "far more accurate"

figure as that extra 2 armour removed will make a huge difference to your dps.

Tempted to say "please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else." but you were almost right.

Anyway onto the real reason for my post. F.A.O. Tukez : I've added support in Rawr.Enhance v2.2.4 for the following EnhSim config options : combat_length, flask_elixir, guardian_elixir, bloodlust_casters, potion, food

Can you amend the copy from clipboard in v1.7.1 to expect these options on a Rawr import. v2.2.4 should be released tonight.

Good to know as the config.txt that comes with 1.7.0 has 10645 for armor.

EDIT: Tried to fix the typo but was banned before I could do it. Sorry if it offended anyone as it wasn't intended (double S on as = bad)

Levva · 05/15/09, 9:49 AM

Originally Posted by Zaurok

Good to know as the config.txt that comes with 1.7.0 has 10645 for armor.

I know it wrong in the config.txt it was myself that last updated the config.txt for Tukez. That was prior to the confirmations on the Combat Stats at level 80 thread.

Originally Posted by Mavanas

I know Rallik has done extensive testing of boss armor on heroic dummy using BT, but here is just another independent confirmation. I asked a hunter to use Beast Lore on Sanctum Sentry, the boss level cat add of Auriaya in Ulduar. The armor is exactly 10643, which matches Rallik's testing.

So as you can see the agreed value is now 10643. I posted a bug report for Tukez at EnhSim: Default config lvl 80 file invalid

Malan · 05/15/09, 11:33 AM

Didn't the 13k figure come from someone using beast lore on Maexxna though?

Yichimet · 05/15/09, 11:44 AM

I think the new 10k figure is post-3.1 after the % change to armor debuffs.

Vlyxnol · 05/15/09, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Mr. Squiggly, first off it should be 10645 as of patch 3.1; please make sure you know the right answer before you correct someone else.

Next, if he doesn't have an Elemental Shaman but has a Resto Shaman then it should be 165 unless he has a Demo Lock and then the number becomes much more variable.

Why would anyone use Haste pots when Speed pots are available?

Sry for the wrong answer I've inquired about this twice before since 3.1 and no one has responded that 13k was incorrect. I did alot of reading on the subject to acquire the correct answer but apparently not enough. At least I finally got my answer I suppose.

"Haste" instead of "Speed" would be a typo.. though a detrimental one.