EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 82

Vesham · 05/15/09, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by Saabu

Option 1: Can you clarify how I would do this? Simply switch the expertise rating I input to a negative value? I.e, -145

Option 2: How do I 'normalize' the expertise value?

Appreciated

Look on the sim itself. There's a specific tab called EP where you can make these changes.

zomghax · 05/16/09, 9:27 AM

I recently posted that I had been working on a series of simulations to observe changes in the EP value of Haste at different overall Haste levels. It has taken some time but I am finally ready to post my results.

My methodology was to perform a total of 51 x 5,000 hour simulations, testing every Haste value from 0% to 25% in 0.5% increments. This was done using my current paper doll values, except for melee haste which was manually changed for the tests. I also changed out my [Totem of Dueling] for [Totem of Hex] in the simulator to ensure that there would be no random Haste procs affecting the results.

Afterward I went back and performed 51 x 3,000 minute combat log simulations at each Haste level to determine the overall % DPS contribution from Windfury, suspecting that the EP value changes were likely caused by an interaction between swing speeds and the internal cooldown.

Here are my results in raw data form:

Haste %		DPS		Haste EP	Windfury %
=======		===		========	==========

 0.00 %		6044.96		2.66		12.05 %
 0.50 %		6058.73		2.58		12.09 %
 1.00 %		6078.66		2.43		12.11 %
 1.50 %		6100.89		2.35		12.13 %
 2.00 %		6116.61		1.83		12.15 %
 2.50 %		6128.18		2.14		12.13 %
 3.00 %		6140.72		2.32		12.16 %
 3.50 %		6160.06		2.53		12.17 %
 4.00 %		6180.15		2.30		12.20 %
 4.50 %		6188.20		2.03		12.18 %
 5.00 %		6203.41		2.27		12.21 %
 5.50 %		6221.15		2.25		12.21 %
 6.00 %		6239.11		2.18		12.20 %
 6.50 %		6250.50		1.76		12.19 %
 7.00 %		6260.72		2.03		12.21 %
 7.50 %		6278.29		1.91		12.18 %
 8.00 %		6295.03		1.30		12.16 %
 8.50 %		6300.00		1.73		12.14 %
 9.00 %		6314.58		1.88		12.13 %
 9.50 %		6329.71		1.24		12.08 %
10.00 %		6339.55		1.50		12.02 %
10.50 %		6346.77		1.83		12.02 %
11.00 %		6360.77		1.31		11.95 %
11.50 %		6370.10		1.68		11.90 %
12.00 %		6380.89		1.95		11.91 %
12.50 %		6396.35		1.21		11.84 %
13.00 %		6405.10		1.61		11.80 %
13.50 %		6412.54		1.77		11.78 %
14.00 %		6430.80		1.33		11.73 %
14.50 %		6441.41		1.75		11.70 %
15.00 %		6452.25		1.65		11.69 %
15.50 %		6461.62		1.89		11.66 %
16.00 %		6473.45		1.91		11.66 %
16.50 %		6494.14		2.07		11.62 %
17.00 %		6508.21		1.89		11.62 %
17.50 %		6515.09		2.16		11.60 %
18.00 %		6532.25		1.91		11.62 %
18.50 %		6541.64		2.24		11.60 %
19.00 %		6565.26		1.46		11.60 %
19.50 %		6577.88		1.55		11.60 %
20.00 %		6590.11		2.36		11.59 %
20.50 %		6606.16		2.01		11.61 %
21.00 %		6618.14		2.22		11.61 %
21.50 %		6631.01		2.07		11.62 %
22.00 %		6653.99		1.65		11.65 %
22.50 %		6659.45		2.08		11.62 %
23.00 %		6682.57		1.63		11.63 %
23.50 %		6688.04		2.63		11.62 %
24.00 %		6710.71		1.67		11.63 %
24.50 %		6725.22		2.29		11.62 %
25.00 %		6739.65		1.66		11.65 %

Here are the EP values for Haste and the Windfury % Damage Contribution presented as line charts:

From the data it is clear that between the values of 8% and 14% melee haste there are a number of "cold spots" where the EP value of Haste falls below 1.5 EP. This also happens again briefly at around 19% melee Haste. However, this isn't the case at every point. At 12% melee Haste, for example, the EP for Haste for 1.91.

It would appear as though one of the reasons why Haste is such a strong stat initially is its effect on Windfury, seen by the initial increase in DPS contribution. The Windfury decline which starts at ~ 7.5% is likely a root cause of the decline in EP value, but why are there still "hot spots" where Haste scores so highly?

My concern with the issue is that Haste becomes a real moving target once you start to move past 7% melee haste. Re-simming after a single upgrade can see your Haste value plummet, which can cause you to question gear choices, gems, enchants, etc. Even knowing that the drops are temporary, it can make it hard to compare gear or judge upgrades.

Is this an issue with the simulator, or are these EP drops real? How many others have seen similar results?

falonub · 05/16/09, 9:33 AM

I was doing the same but not as low %. I reached 20% melee haste and I wanted to see the same. I noticed that I still maintained a 2.X EP value for haste up to 21.99% haste. However, at 22% it dropped down to 1.5-1.6. This continued for me all the way to 22.54%, however at 22.55% it rockets back up to a 2.X EP value and from there it maintains it's 2.X value up to like 26% and I didn't sim much more than that for now because that's a lot of slots I don't have yet so I don't care yet.

• Jessamy · 05/16/09, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by zomghax

Is this an issue with the simulator, or are these EP drops real? How many others have seen similar results?

Short answer: the simulator is accurately reflecting in game mechanics; haste dps contribution varies a lot.

You removed Totem of Dueling from your simulation to prevent haste procs, but Flurry is still a core enhancement mechanic. Also, the sim will cast Heroism / Bloodlust every 10 minutes.

As your weapon speed approaches a value that divides into the 3s windfury internal cooldown, the value of haste improves -- there is less time after the cooldown before your next swing and potential windfury proc. As weapon speed drops below 1.5s, 1.0s or 0.75s, the value of haste from windfury drops, since it's nearly a full swing timer after the internal cooldown until the next potential proc.

This is complicated by the fuzziness of the internal cooldown (in the simulator it's randomly between 2.8 and 3.2 seconds to reflect reality) due to server-client communication, and all the various haste effects we encounter in a raid environment: Windfury Totem, Flurry, totem procs, trinket procs and on-use effects, potions, and Heroism / Bloodlust. Other than Windfury Totem, the simulator (and real in-game mechanics) will have these effects in place sometimes and sometimes not -- and frequently overlapping.

Haste is never a bad stat (negative EP value) because it always increases white damage, so several weeks ago someone advised using an EP value for haste based on personal gut feeling, regardless of the simmed value. I think using the same value as agility or crit was the recommendation.

Farosarg · 05/16/09, 7:54 PM

I had pretty similar results with my test set last week when I was wondering what kind of impact the four piece set bonus would have on haste EP value. Just using my paperdoll stats and adding the set bonus dropped haste EP to 1.23 which, as expected, was lower than current but by a way too large margin.

Adding melee haste in .2% increments displayed the same effect that your testing did. This indeed makes us second guess gear choices. From that test we could maybe designate a point (8.20%?) until when haste is better than other stats to get and after that use the same EP value that agi or crit has.

Deathicle · 05/17/09, 5:45 PM

Originally Posted by Farosarg

I had pretty similar results with my test set last week when I was wondering what kind of impact the four piece set bonus would have on haste EP value. Just using my paperdoll stats and adding the set bonus dropped haste EP to 1.23 which, as expected, was lower than current but by a way too large margin.

Adding melee haste in .2% increments displayed the same effect that your testing did. This indeed makes us second guess gear choices. From that test we could maybe designate a point (8.20%?) until when haste is better than other stats to get and after that use the same EP value that agi or crit has.

Thats basically exactly right. Another shaman I know tested his damage and found that going above 9% haste resulted in a much lower EP value. It was only above 22% that his EP value went up and above 2.0, but the loss of so many other stats makes this approach undesirable. What a surprise. Stacking one stat exclusively is once again proven to not be beneficial for shamans :P

Devendra · 05/17/09, 8:05 PM

Hello,
I have been trying to figure out how to get some EP values with my current gear. I am copying over from Rawr to EnhSim 1.7 (on Windows Vista with a core 2 duo, which is listed as working with SSE2) but I keep getting an error and only a choice to close the window.

A point in the right direction is much appreciated! Thanks.

##########################################
### Rawr.Enhance Data Export to EnhSim ###
##########################################

config_source rawr

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.5
oh_speed                        2.6
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          143.5
mh_crit                         24.65
oh_crit                         24.65
mh_hit                          12.44
oh_hit                          12.44
mh_expertise_rating             178
oh_expertise_rating             178
ap                              3633
melee_haste                     6.46
armor_penetration               2.35
str                             133
agi                             731
int                             466
spi                             153
spellpower                      1089
spell_crit                      17.95
spell_hit                       15.55
spell_haste                     4.97
max_mana                        11106
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      2673
mh_weapon                       -
oh_enchant                      2673
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        40531

totem                           40322
set_bonus1                      naxx_melee_2
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         -

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -
glyph_major1                    lava_lash
glyph_major2                    stormstrike
glyph_major3                    windfury_weapon

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -


#############
## Talents ##
#############

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5
convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

#########
# Buffs #
#########

armor_debuff_major              0.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              0.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   0.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          687/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0.0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          0.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        0.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             0.0/13.0
spellpower_buff                 0/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         0.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      0.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              0.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   51/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60
bloodlust_casters               1
flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            fish_feast

combat_length                   7.30

OnosKT · 05/17/09, 8:52 PM

I have had that issue at times. It disapeared after some machine restarts, so while I can not put my finger on what is going on I think restarting your OS could fix it.

Zaurok · 05/17/09, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by OnosKT

I have had that issue at times. It disapeared after some machine restarts, so while I can not put my finger on what is going on I think restarting your OS could fix it.

The sim will crash (the dos box) if I enable SW within the parameters after 1-2 seconds of calculating.

Aeolian · 05/18/09, 12:15 AM

I've only had the "stop working" error when trying to run the EP calculations on my Vista machine. It runs fine on XP Professional and Home, no issues, fresh installs of the simulator on all 3. Haven't been able to find a cause or a fix for it.

Loukno · 05/18/09, 5:45 AM

After i followed a tutorial on how to calculate EP with Enhsim from Ensidia forums (Ensidia - Welcome) i got this values:

EnhSim version 1.7.0

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 1.90364% (49.9363 hit rating).

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5942.63
ap                        1.00      0.56      6054.36        111.73
crit rating               1.70      0.95      5971.18        28.56
hit rating                1.45      0.81      5966.85        24.22
expertise rating          2.64      1.48      5991.04        48.41
haste rating              1.44      0.80      5966.71        24.08
armor penetration rating  1.47      0.82      5967.27        24.64
spellpower                0.99      0.55      6025.82        83.19
mh dps                    5.17      2.89      5964.28        21.65
oh dps                    2.34      1.31      5952.43        9.81
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.62      
intelligence              1.97      
spirit                    -0.00     -0.00     5942.60        -0.03
mana                      0.03      0.02      5947.23        4.60
mp5                       1.73      0.97      5961.94        19.31

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.70, HitRating=1.45, HasteRating=1.44, ExpertiseRating=2.64, ArmorPenetration=1.47, SpellDamage=0.99, MainHandDps=5.17, OffHandDps=2.34, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.62, Intellect=1.97, Spirit=-0.00, Mana=0.03, Mp5=1.73 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.44&dps=5.17&mp5=1.73&mcr=1.70&odps=2.34&spd=0.99&Agi=1.62&mhit=1.45&Int=1.97&Spi=-0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.47&Exp=2.64

elapsed simulation time: 14000.00h
elapsed real time: 35.21s
simulation speed: 1431248x

I found that int is too high compared to agility. This is the configuration i used for this calculation based on the tutorial i took for Enhsim:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        1
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         8
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SW
rotation_priority3              SS
rotation_priority4              ES
rotation_priority5              MT
rotation_priority6              LS
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              SR

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   0
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              0
judgement_of_wisdom             0

flask_elixir                    flask_of_endless_rage
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          potion_of_speed
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.50
oh_speed                        2.50
mh_dps                          156.6
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         31.59
oh_crit                         31.59
mh_hit                          10
oh_hit                          10
mh_expertise_rating             106
oh_expertise_rating             106
ap                              3993
melee_haste                     9.28
armor_penetration               5.36
str                             129
agi                             936
int                             499
spi                             153
spellpower                      1197
spell_crit                      22.63
spell_hit                       13.76
spell_haste                     7.14
max_mana                        11601
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      3789
oh_enchant                      3789

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        40684
trinket2                        44253

totem                           40322

set_bonus1                      -
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         41285

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    -

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

Is there anything wrong with my configuration, and if not, could someone tell me why im getting too high EP values for int, is that a normal value that i should take for PAWN?

• Koban · 05/18/09, 5:58 AM

Either disable mana simulation or enable replenishment/bow/judgement of wisdom.

You are obviously going out of mana in that simulation, hence why the high EP value for int/mp5.

And while I didn't check your armory, I also noticed you didn't enter a third glyph or a set bonus.
ShockAndAwe doesn't import the glyph of feral spirits nor a set bonus. (yet?)

Ruga · 05/18/09, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Aeolian

I've only had the "stop working" error when trying to run the EP calculations on my Vista machine. It runs fine on XP Professional and Home, no issues, fresh installs of the simulator on all 3. Haven't been able to find a cause or a fix for it.

This might fix your errors under Vista (I use Vista64):

Load EnhSim 1.7.0
Load the standard config and update the rotation to what you want
Load Rawr 2.2.4
Import your char from armory into Rawr
Make changes as needed
Export your character Data from Rawr and import it into EnhSim (Copy from clipboard button)
Sim away!

If you do that, you'll not end up having an error when calculating EP values. Or, at least, it worked for me.

I suspect it has something to do with the config people use.
I will paste mine when I get home.

Lucentia · 05/18/09, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Zaurok

The sim will crash (the dos box) if I enable SW within the parameters after 1-2 seconds of calculating.

I run Vista 64, and i get the same issue whenever i have more than 6 items in my rotation, so i dropped Magma totem and spirit wolves, i am sure it messes the EP balance up somewhat, but i figured probably less than other options.

I've had it reported as a bug on the website for several weeks...

Frostshockz · 05/18/09, 3:04 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

What I would like to know is how Windfury Glyph compares to Lightning Shield glyph in a raid environment where you will be gaining additional activations from the extraneous damage. Anyone want to take a stab at that one?

I know this question was put out there on another thread, but it had been "bugging" me all weekend, and I thought the question I had would be better asked in this thread.

What do other shaman do to adjust the Sim's results based upon real game interaction? The Sim can't sim AE. The sim can't sim non-perfect use of abilities/trinkets. Sure the use of trinkets/pots/wolves on XT's heart probably evens out a missed timer, but what about fights like Razor where there isn't a bonus DMG part, but the timing has to be perfect (when she lands verse the adds).

So if I am not using wolves every 3 min on the dot - that makes it sim much worse . . .. What if a fight mechanic makes me miss a use if I am saving it for a certain phase or part of a fight? There isn't one "perfect" fight in Uld - Ignis comes close, but even then it isn't perfect.

I guess my question is - how do other people adjust the suggestions of gear/glyphs/talents around a perfect sim in an imperfect game?

Skiace · 05/18/09, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Frostshockz

I know this question was put out there on another thread, but it had been "bugging" me all weekend, and I thought the question I had would be better asked in this thread.

What do other shaman do to adjust the Sim's results based upon real game interaction? The Sim can't sim AE. The sim can't sim non-perfect use of abilities/trinkets. Sure the use of trinkets/pots/wolves on XT's heart probably evens out a missed timer, but what about fights like Razor where there isn't a bonus DMG part, but the timing has to be perfect (when she lands verse the adds).

So if I am not using wolves every 3 min on the dot - that makes it sim much worse . . .. What if a fight mechanic makes me miss a use if I am saving it for a certain phase or part of a fight? There isn't one "perfect" fight in Uld - Ignis comes close, but even then it isn't perfect.

I guess my question is - how do other people adjust the suggestions of gear/glyphs/talents around a perfect sim in an imperfect game?

Common sense and experience? The sim gives you a direction to go for idealized/baseline situations. For example, if a trinket with a passive proc like the [Mirror of Truth] sim'd out as very close but not quite as good as one with an on-use like [Wrathstone], I might use the Mirror on some fights and the Wrathstone on others.

Most of the oddities/imperfections that you're talking about are fairly minor dps losses overall.

Mengtzu · 05/18/09, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lucentia

I run Vista 64, and i get the same issue whenever i have more than 6 items in my rotation, so i dropped Magma totem and spirit wolves, i am sure it messes the EP balance up somewhat, but i figured probably less than other options.

I'm finding (with 1.7.0, Vista 32) that removing SR from the rotation will prevent the error, which seems a decent workaround if you're not simulating mana.

Deathicle · 05/19/09, 3:48 AM

Can we get [Mjolnir Runestone] and [Blood of the Old God] added to the simulator? Both have the same ICD as every other trinket of this type (45 seconds) and without having either in the simulator, its a bit hard to determine which older trinket is best to be replaced!

Aeolian · 05/19/09, 8:58 AM

Originally Posted by Frostshockz

I know this question was put out there on another thread, but it had been "bugging" me all weekend, and I thought the question I had would be better asked in this thread.

What do other shaman do to adjust the Sim's results based upon real game interaction? The Sim can't sim AE. The sim can't sim non-perfect use of abilities/trinkets. Sure the use of trinkets/pots/wolves on XT's heart probably evens out a missed timer, but what about fights like Razor where there isn't a bonus DMG part, but the timing has to be perfect (when she lands verse the adds).

So if I am not using wolves every 3 min on the dot - that makes it sim much worse . . .. What if a fight mechanic makes me miss a use if I am saving it for a certain phase or part of a fight? There isn't one "perfect" fight in Uld - Ignis comes close, but even then it isn't perfect.

I guess my question is - how do other people adjust the suggestions of gear/glyphs/talents around a perfect sim in an imperfect game?

Personally I don't use the simulator to tell me how much DPS I should be doing in my current gear. I use it to find EP values and to check potential BiS gear. Fights vary too much to ever base your actual in-game DPS to that of the simulator. Obviously its a perfect scenario, no environmental interruption, no aoe, no movement. We could ask Tukez to give us options to select how many times we use wolves in a 5-6 minute fight, and/or an option to line it up with Heroism/Bloodlust like our trinkets (if it isn't already) but there isn't any point in doing that because it still won't give you 100% accurate representation of your DPS in game.

If you are trying to use the simulator to figure out which glyph is better, as we did in the other thread, it still isn't 100% accurate. One could argue that any fight with an environmental AoE effect could potentially pull more DPS out of the Lightning Shield glyph then the Feral Spirit glyph, most people won't re-glyph just for that though. The best we could possibly do at the moment is run the simulator with shorter times to find out what one use of wolves will do versus the lightning shield glyph. Is it completely accurate, nope. It is a substantial enough representation that we can use it effectively to determine that Feral Spirits, at least for the moment, is the way to go. We are doing some testing to find out more about environmental Lightning Shield procs a long with Static Shock to see if the LS glyph could be a better choice, but we are not finished yet.

To answer your question directly, I doubt you can accurately adjust anything in the simulator to portray your DPS perfectly. Too many variables, often in the same fight. Your DPS from week to week on Decon is going to vary depending on Gravity Bomb and Light Orb placement, for example.

Frostshockz · 05/19/09, 11:28 AM

To some degree I don't care as much about the gear aspect. Simply because it is easy enough to swap item X for item Y between fights.

The glyph and the talents though do make me wonder. For example - pre 3.1 when we were more streched from a talent point of view (too many talents not enough points) I would throw points in improved shields to get stronger LS procs. Sure I had less static shock procs (I think I was running 2/3 in both) and less total orbs, but in fights like Thad where there is a lot of AE dmg happening it was a huge asset.

I am reading and watching the glyph thread for this very reason.

Honestly I guess in the end there will be a very small DPS difference between glyph A and B (assuming you are using one of the top 4 or so). Same with talents. I want to get the highest DPS possible each and every fight, but I guess what is needed for that will vary fight to fight.

Malan · 05/19/09, 5:20 PM

Is there still a plan to do a java redesign?

[e] I was bored with my design assignment at work today so I brainstormed a bit on this. I think we would want to implement an XML reader and just define a custom schema to describe trinkets. We can provide trinket schemas for most of the common ones and then people can follow the pattern to add new ones as they want.

Something like:

<trinket name="Malan's Maruader of Doom">
<chanceOnHit value=0.45>
<internalCooldown value =10>
<procBonus><attackPower value=3000>
</trinket>

And then we'd have a trinket model that would read in expected values and instantiate itself as the specified trinket. The engine itself would just know how to ask a trinket for things like "tell me what to do when you fire" and "how long before you can fire again."

Staticus · 05/19/09, 7:46 PM

Originally Posted by Loukno

After i followed a tutorial on how to calculate EP with Enhsim from Ensidia forums (Ensidia - Welcome) i got this values:

// lots of code

Is there anything wrong with my configuration, and if not, could someone tell me why im getting too high EP values for int, is that a normal value that i should take for PAWN?

Move SR to the top of the priority list and it's guaranteed to go off when you have 750 mana left. (atm it's at the bottom, which means you're bound to go oom while the sim is trying to cast everything else first)

Originally Posted by Aeolian

We could ask Tukez to give us options to select how many times we use wolves in a 5-6 minute fight, and/or an option to line it up with Heroism/Bloodlust like our trinkets (if it isn't already) but there isn't any point in doing that because it still won't give you 100% accurate representation of your DPS in game.

The sim assumes heroism is up when wolves come out afaik. (which in itself assumes you have a second shaman who can hero when wolves come out for the 2nd time)

Skiace · 05/20/09, 5:06 AM

Originally Posted by Staticus

(which in itself assumes you have a second shaman who can hero when wolves come out for the 2nd time)

Not since 3.1 when Sated was changed to a 10 minute debuff. The default combat length for the sim is 5 minutes anyway.

SentinelBorg · 05/20/09, 5:24 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Is there still a plan to do a java redesign?

[e] I was bored with my design assignment at work today so I brainstormed a bit on this. I think we would want to implement an XML reader and just define a custom schema to describe trinkets. We can provide trinket schemas for most of the common ones and then people can follow the pattern to add new ones as they want.

Something like:

<trinket name="Malan's Maruader of Doom">
<chanceOnHit value=0.45>
<internalCooldown value =10>
<procBonus><attackPower value=3000>
</trinket>

And then we'd have a trinket model that would read in expected values and instantiate itself as the specified trinket. The engine itself would just know how to ask a trinket for things like "tell me what to do when you fire" and "how long before you can fire again."

I thought about doing a sim in .net and came up with the same idea. A xml definition file for trinkets. There should be a basic set of proccing mechanisms with their own parameters you could use. An example could be "Proc on critical melee hit" (Parameters: proc chance).

• Cochice · 05/20/09, 5:39 AM

Originally Posted by falonub

I was doing the same but not as low %. I reached 20% melee haste and I wanted to see the same. I noticed that I still maintained a 2.X EP value for haste up to 21.99% haste. However, at 22% it dropped down to 1.5-1.6. This continued for me all the way to 22.54%, however at 22.55% it rockets back up to a 2.X EP value and from there it maintains it's 2.X value up to like 26% and I didn't sim much more than that for now because that's a lot of slots I don't have yet so I don't care yet.

Hrm, mine dropped at about 22% (like you), but simmed low all the way through 28% (right around 1.3-1.5). I don't think getting up towards 28% is really realistic yet. So basically do we want to shoot for 21%ish and keep it there (depending on your sim results)?