EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 86

tortugapir8 · 06/10/09, 1:13 PM

Originally Posted by Spaceinvader

You might want to fix the link in your post. The URL displayed is correct but clicking on the link will load a different URL which will download Rev B instead of 1.7.0.2 (fixed in the quoted text). I downloaded the old version by mistake and I imagine I am not the only one.

Thanks for all your hard work -- it is much appreciated.

Whoops thanks for the catch, link fixed in the post.

Vespasian · 06/11/09, 2:43 AM

Haste vs Crit ep values for Ulduar gear level

I am experiencing contradictory results when applying calculated EP values to my set up.

I am using the new newly provided .exe, but my results are consistent with the old .exe (thank you for the update btw).

I am using the following config:

### Saved by version 1.7.0 of EnhSimGUI

simulation_time                 1000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   5
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         160
max_lag                         170
simulate_mana                   0

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         0
ep_spirit                       0
ep_mp5                          0

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      1
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         9
rotation_priority1              SW
rotation_priority2              SR
rotation_priority3              MW5_LB
rotation_priority4              ES_SS
rotation_priority5              SS
rotation_priority6              ES
rotation_priority7              LL
rotation_priority8              MT
rotation_priority9              LS

miss                            8.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        24.0
armor                           10645
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              20.0/20.0
armor_debuff_minor              5.0/5.0
physical_vulnerability_debuff   4.0/4.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    99.7/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        5.0/5.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      3.0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               0
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          haste_potion
food                            fish_feast

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            tauren
mh_speed                        2.60
oh_speed                        2.60
mh_dps                          178.8
oh_dps                          178.8
mh_crit                         33.79
oh_crit                         33.79
mh_hit                          11.41
oh_hit                          11.41
mh_expertise_rating             142.00
oh_expertise_rating             142.00
ap                              4274
melee_haste                     12.21
armor_penetration               6.17
str                             135
agi                             856
int                             534
spi                             155
spellpower                      1282
spell_crit                      26.00
spell_hit                       14.26
spell_haste                     9.39
max_mana                        12126
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      berserking
oh_enchant                      berserking

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        blood_of_the_old_god
trinket2                        mjolnir_runestone

totem                           totem_of_dueling

set_bonus1                      worldbreaker_battlegear_4
set_bonus2                      -
set_bonus3                      -

metagem                         chaotic_skyflare_diamond

gloves_enchant                  -
cloak_enchant                   -

glyph_major1                    stormstrike
glyph_major2                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major3                    feral_spirit

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             2/5
improved_shields                3/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  3/3
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   3/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 0/1
elemental_fury                  5/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/3
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/3
shamanism                       0/5

And from that are achieving the following EP values:

EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      6862.06
ap                        1.00      0.65      6992.28        130.22
crit rating               1.74      1.14      6896.11        34.05
hit rating                1.63      1.06      6893.89        31.83
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06
haste rating              1.33      0.86      6888.00        25.95
armor penetration rating  1.51      0.98      6891.47        29.41
spellpower                0.96      0.62      6955.80        93.74
mh dps                    5.11      3.33      6887.02        24.96
oh dps                    2.79      1.81      6875.66        13.61
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.69      
intelligence*             1.39      
spirit                    0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06
mana                      0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06
mp5                       0.00      0.00      0.00           -6862.06

* part of the EP value is missing because of skipped tests.
( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.74, HitRating=1.63, HasteRating=1.33, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.51, SpellDamage=0.96, MainHandDps=5.11, OffHandDps=2.79, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.69, Intellect=1.39, Spirit=0.00, Mana=0.00, Mp5=0.00 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.33&dps=5.11&mp5=0.00&mcr=1.74&odps=2.79&spd=0.96&Agi=1.69&mhit=1.63&Int=1.39&Spi=0.00&map=1.00&arp=1.51&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 10000.00h
elapsed real time: 49.42s
simulation speed: 728435x

And achieving the following dps:

EnhSim version 1.7.0.2 by Verges: scionweb@gmail.com

................................................................................

MH:
miss                242983         9.57%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            609388         24.00%
hit                 466990         18.39%
crit                1220035        48.04%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.48%
procs/swings        14.19%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 407157         49.02%
crit                423479         50.98%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190113         49.16%
crit                196600         50.84%

OH:
miss                243897         9.60%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            610396         24.04%
hit                 464712         18.30%
crit                1220391        48.06%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1887846        59.94%
crit                1261777        40.06%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 189447         48.99%
crit                197266         51.01%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 306932         60.08%
crit                203912         39.92%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 228191         48.82%
crit                239220         51.18%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 364795         60.00%
crit                243217         40.00%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 438739         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               117156         6.51%
glancing            431638         23.99%
hit                 1041948        57.92%
crit                208136         11.57%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 57.78

flurry uptime                  95.19%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.17%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.48%
oh enchant uptime              37.34%
trinket1 uptime                18.08%
trinket2 uptime                20.61%
totem uptime                   64.45%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2127.44   31.01%    84.65
windfury            842.02    12.27%    6.92
flametongue         549.45    8.01%     52.49
stormstrike         422.09    6.15%     6.45      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           348.81    5.08%     7.79      21.46     10.54%
magma totem         503.14    7.33%     2.66      49.55     24.34%
earth shock         581.53    8.48%     8.51      55.02     27.03%
lightning bolt      977.86    14.25%    10.13     74.25     36.47%
lightning shield    218.99    3.19%     0.81      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       289.99    4.23%     0.40      3.31      1.62%

DPS                 6861.32
MPS                 203.58
MP2min              24430.01
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 4.98s
simulation speed: 722311x

I am particularly interested in my haste value, which seems abnormally low. My intuition tells me that the actual value of haste is much higher. When I manipulate my config favoring haste over crit (applying haste enchant and swapping 2x ap/crit gems for ap/haste gems = + 1.55% haste and -0.34% crit/24.2 AP) I experience a dps increase- this is despite the EP value of haste being significantly lower than crit.

EnhSim version 1.7.0.2 by Verges: scionweb@gmail.com

................................................................................

MH:
miss                246769         9.59%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            617354         24.00%
hit                 480686         18.68%
crit                1227942        47.73%

MH Windfury:
procs/hits          15.29%
procs/swings        14.01%
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 409001         49.32%
crit                420305         50.68%

MH Storsmtrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190404         49.27%
crit                196040         50.73%

OH:
miss                246170         9.57%
dodge               0              0.00%
glancing            618046         24.02%
hit                 480001         18.66%
crit                1228534        47.75%

OH Flametongue:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 1912178        60.13%
crit                1268101        39.87%

OH Stormstrike:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 190634         49.33%
crit                195810         50.67%

Earth Shock:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 307476         60.23%
crit                203020         39.77%

Lava Lash:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               0              0.00%
hit                 229925         49.21%
crit                237329         50.79%

Lightning Bolt:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 368112         60.12%
crit                244203         39.88%

Lightning Shield:
miss                0              0.00%
hit                 441784         100.00%
crit                0              0.00%

Spirit Wolves:
miss                0              0.00%
dodge               116738         6.49%
glancing            432992         24.08%
hit                 1040844        57.89%
crit                207494         11.54%

Maelstrom Weapon:
PPM                 58.24

flurry uptime                  94.98%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   78.18%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              41.62%
oh enchant uptime              37.52%
trinket1 uptime                18.14%
trinket2 uptime                20.68%
totem uptime                   64.41%
set bonus uptime               0.00%
metagem uptime                 0.00%
gloves enchant uptime          0.00%
cloak enchant uptime           0.00%

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               2143.96   31.17%    85.76
windfury            836.51    12.16%    6.91
flametongue         553.92    8.05%     53.00
stormstrike         420.27    6.11%     6.44      0.00      0.00%
lava lash           346.88    5.04%     7.79      21.45     10.52%
magma totem         502.01    7.3%      2.66      49.51     24.27%
earth shock         580.42    8.44%     8.51      54.98     26.95%
lightning bolt      983.65    14.3%     10.21     74.77     36.65%
lightning shield    220.40    3.2%      0.82      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       289.21    4.21%     0.40      3.31      1.62%

DPS                 6877.22
MPS                 204.02
MP2min              24482.53
MRPS                0.00
Out of mana time    0.00%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 5.01s
simulation speed: 717846x

I am aware that haste peaks and troughs in relative value, but have been unable to find specific data supporting this. Is someone able to direct me to it?

More specifically:

1) Is my config incorrect?
2) Why am I getting more dps out of haste than crit when the EP value of haste is lower than crit?
3) Have other shaman at my gear level done extensive haste EP value testing? What values are your arriving at? A brief look at the top 20 shaman for XT (wowmeteronline) indicates a focus on crit over haste- what are the rest of you seeing?

Raut · 06/11/09, 7:15 AM

Please don't use the same numeric version style on non-official releases of the sim. Tag it with something that will make it clear it is a fork version(even if it's meant to be a short-lived fork). Like: EhnSim 1.7.0-Verges1, 1.7.0-Verges2 etc. Explains the source of the work, author of the fork and version of the fork.

Deathicle · 06/11/09, 4:54 PM

@Vespasian

The reason that your haste EP rating has fallen dramatically below hit/crit can be attributed too simply having 'too much' haste!

With 13.76% unbuffed haste, 20% WF, 25% flurry and 3% raid haste, your 2.6 weapons are attacking at 1.48 seconds each - just below the 1.5 speed 'threshold'. (Note, I am not saying you are doing less damage due to the 'wf pit' - you are still doing more overall damage due to more white attacks). When your hasted attack speeds fall between 1.4 and 1.49 seconds, the EP value of haste plummets.

If you are bothered by this, you can drop a few of your haste gems in favor of crit or hit. If you get exactly 12% haste unbuffed, that would put your hasted attack speed at 1.503 seconds. That's 302 haste rating in case you were wondering. Unfortunately you would have to swap out a piece of gear that has haste for one that doesn't - 23 haste and 2 8 haste gems isn't enough to get you back down to 302.

As a point of interest, if you are lucky enough to have the [Golden Saronite Dragon] or [The Masticator], you can afford to have up to 16.5% haste unbuffed (416 haste rating) and still stay above a 1.5 second attack speed threshold.

• Jessamy · 06/11/09, 6:31 PM

There is no true haste cap. As your weapon speed drops closer to a value that divides the 3s Windfury internal cooldown, the EP of an additional point in haste increases; the next potential proc after the cooldown is sooner. A 1.51s swing speed has a potential proc 0.02s after the cooldown, a 1.49s swing speed has a potential proc 1.47s after the cooldown. But as you add even more haste, the time before a potential proc falls again. (A 1.01s swing speed has a potential proc 0.03s after the cooldown.)

All that Windfury stuff aside, additional haste will always increase white weapon damage, Flametongue Weapon damage, Lightning Shield procs, and Maelstrom Weapon stacks.

Several people have plotted a graph of haste EP vs. current haste value. This ends up being a jagged graph. The general consensus at the time was to take a broader perspective when using EP values from enhsim, particularly for haste, hit, and expertise. For haste, use an EP value similar to that for agi or crit. Don't try to reduce haste on your gear to stay above the windfury threshold, but rather recognize that your haste EP will continue to increase past the threshold as your swing speed gets even faster.

clliche · 06/11/09, 6:37 PM

Using Verges's version:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1712.81   29.24%    83.81
windfury            710.41    12.13%    6.95
flametongue         499.11    8.52%     54.29
stormstrike         317.18    5.42%     6.76      37.24     15.60%
lava lash           259.48    4.43%     8.32      22.92     9.60%
magma totem         522.18    8.92%     2.88      53.49     22.41%
earth shock         579.58    9.9%      8.99      58.09     24.33%
lightning bolt      786.34    13.42%    8.77      64.23     26.91%
lightning shield    241.29    4.12%     0.84      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       228.94    3.91%     0.33      2.75      1.15%

DPS                 5857.33
MPS                 238.73
MP2min              28647.32
MRPS                253.05
Out of mana time    0.46%

Using the 1.7.0 Tukez version:

                    DPS                 PPM       MPS
white               1665.01   28.62%    83.80
windfury            690.53    11.87%    6.95
flametongue         513.64    8.83%     54.30
stormstrike         307.94    5.29%     6.76      37.24     15.60%
lava lash           259.64    4.46%     8.32      22.92     9.61%
magma totem         521.63    8.97%     2.87      53.44     22.40%
earth shock         579.83    9.97%     8.99      58.12     24.35%
lightning bolt      784.92    13.49%    8.76      64.16     26.89%
lightning shield    239.95    4.12%     0.83      0.00      0.00%
spirit wolves       253.99    4.37%     0.33      2.75      1.15%

DPS                 5817.08
MPS                 238.63
MP2min              28635.43
MRPS                251.75
Out of mana time    0.46%

elapsed simulation time: 1000.00h
elapsed real time: 1.47s
simulation speed: 2452316x

Even reducing armor pen down to 0 there seems to be a round a 30 dps discrepency between the two simulators. Was anything other than the armor pen calculations changed for this new version?

Deathicle · 06/11/09, 6:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jessamy

There is no true haste cap. As your weapon speed drops closer to a value that divides the 3s Windfury internal cooldown, the EP of an additional point in haste increases; the next potential proc after the cooldown is sooner. A 1.51s swing speed has a potential proc 0.02s after the cooldown, a 1.49s swing speed has a potential proc 1.47s after the cooldown. But as you add even more haste, the time before a potential proc falls again. (A 1.01s swing speed has a potential proc 0.03s after the cooldown.)

All that Windfury stuff aside, additional haste will always increase white weapon damage, Flametongue Weapon damage, Lightning Shield procs, and Maelstrom Weapon stacks.

Several people have plotted a graph of haste EP vs. current haste value. This ends up being a jagged graph. The general consensus at the time was to take a broader perspective when using EP values from enhsim, particularly for haste, hit, and expertise. For haste, use an EP value similar to that for agi or crit. Don't try to reduce haste on your gear to stay above the windfury threshold, but rather recognize that your haste EP will continue to increase past the threshold as your swing speed gets even faster.

I did not say there was a haste cap. I simply said that with a 2.6 speed weapon, having more than 12% haste will push your attacks below 1.5 seconds between swings - resulting in higher overall damage but a dramatically lower EP value for additional haste. Additionally, I told him what to do if it bothers him.

However, I disagree with your statement that you should always use the same EP value for haste as we do with agi/crit/hit. Once you are below 1.5 and above 1.4 second speeds, your EP value for haste is much lower, meaning that all things being equal, your points are better spent upgrading your other statistics as they will provide the biggest 'bang' for the buck and a higher overall DPS. That is, after all, exactly what the simulator is telling you. Unlike hit, which maintains a fairly high rating beyond even the spell hit cap, haste is not always the best choice. It simply has multiple 'soft caps'.

Talaus-Mok'Nathal · 06/11/09, 8:05 PM

Originally Posted by Deathicle

I did not say there was a haste cap. I simply said that with a 2.6 speed weapon, having more than 12% haste will push your attacks below 1.5 seconds between swings - resulting in higher overall damage but a dramatically lower EP value for additional haste. Additionally, I told him what to do if it bothers him.

However, I disagree with your statement that you should always use the same EP value for haste as we do with agi/crit/hit. Once you are below 1.5 and above 1.4 second speeds, your EP value for haste is much lower, meaning that all things being equal, your points are better spent upgrading your other statistics as they will provide the biggest 'bang' for the buck and a higher overall DPS. That is, after all, exactly what the simulator is telling you. Unlike hit, which maintains a fairly high rating beyond even the spell hit cap, haste is not always the best choice. It simply has multiple 'soft caps'.

I'm finding completely different results. I'm currently running with 16.33% melee haste and the sim often comes up with EP values for haste well above 2, meanwhile my hit is only 1% over the spell hit and the EP value is around 1.5. Haste is a very touchy stat though. At one point in time, running the EP calculator with an ep_haste value of 30 gave me a negative value for haste, but both 29 and 31 gave me values around 1.4, and the further I deviated from 30, the higher the value climbed. Unfortunately, with the 3 second cd windfury debunked, we have even less of an idea how haste effects it.

With hit, the lower my hit is (without going below the spell hit cap of course), the lower the EP value I get for it.

clliche · 06/11/09, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by Deathicle

I did not say there was a haste cap. I simply said that with a 2.6 speed weapon, having more than 12% haste will push your attacks below 1.5 seconds between swings - resulting in higher overall damage but a dramatically lower EP value for additional haste. Additionally, I told him what to do if it bothers him.

However, I disagree with your statement that you should always use the same EP value for haste as we do with agi/crit/hit. Once you are below 1.5 and above 1.4 second speeds, your EP value for haste is much lower, meaning that all things being equal, your points are better spent upgrading your other statistics as they will provide the biggest 'bang' for the buck and a higher overall DPS. That is, after all, exactly what the simulator is telling you. Unlike hit, which maintains a fairly high rating beyond even the spell hit cap, haste is not always the best choice. It simply has multiple 'soft caps'.

Flurry is 25% not 30%. So you can actually get 17.3% haste before you're under 1.5

Malan · 06/11/09, 10:31 PM

For the 100th time in this thread: the 1.5 speed dip is an artifact of the simulator. It has next to zero impact on your gameplay.

Rouncer · 06/11/09, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

For the 100th time in this thread: the 1.5 speed dip is an artifact of the simulator. It has next to zero impact on your gameplay.

Actually it shouldn't even be part of the sim anymore since Tukez recoded the sim to have a variable cooldown on Windfury to correspond to what is actually seen in game. Why there is such variability with haste EP values now really has me a bit confused. However running the sim with only 1000 hours is just asking for inaccuracy anyway.

Sylvand · 06/11/09, 10:59 PM

Originally Posted by Vespasian

1) Is my config incorrect?
2) Why am I getting more dps out of haste than crit when the EP value of haste is lower than crit?
3) Have other shaman at my gear level done extensive haste EP value testing? What values are your arriving at? A brief look at the top 20 shaman for XT (wowmeteronline) indicates a focus on crit over haste- what are the rest of you seeing?

Looks like it could potentially be a sampling issue. 0.34% crit is the reduction you should lose on spells with 16 less crit rating. Dropping 22 agility should lower your physical crit by a further 0.26%. However your crit loss seems much less than expected:

MH attack: 48.04% -> 47.73% = 0.31% delta
Lightning bolt: 40.00% -> 39.88% = 0.12% delta

I tend to use 5000 hour simulations, you might try that and see if your results are more consistent.

Talaus-Mok'Nathal · 06/11/09, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Actually it shouldn't even be part of the sim anymore since Tukez recoded the sim to have a variable cooldown on Windfury to correspond to what is actually seen in game. Why there is such variability with haste EP values now really has me a bit confused. However running the sim with only 1000 hours is just asking for inaccuracy anyway.

Yeah, the whole haste thing has me baffled as well. I ran it for 100000 hours one night and still came up with a negative haste for a 30 haste change, and positives for 31. I'm also getting it while being under the 1.5 speed fully hasted weapons and well over 1.0 speed.

Deathicle · 06/12/09, 3:14 AM

Originally Posted by clliche

Flurry is 25% not 30%. So you can actually get 17.3% haste before you're under 1.5

Taken from WoW Wiki

Haste - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Haste stacks multiplicatively. This means that it is beneficial to stack multiple haste effects.

Is that not correct? Windfury is 20%, Flurry is 25%, Swift Retribution is 3%. He has 13.76% haste unbuffed. So 1.1376 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 1.03 = 1.7576. 2.6 / 1.7576 = 1.479 attack speed with a 2.6 speed weapon. 12% haste would net you a 1.503 attack speed. If something is wrong with my math, please let me know!

Levva · 06/12/09, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by clliche

Was anything other than the armor pen calculations changed for this new version?

Yes the Flametongue coefficients were fixed as well. Look back the thread a couple of pages to get the list of changes.

Ryethe · 06/12/09, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

Actually it shouldn't even be part of the sim anymore since Tukez recoded the sim to have a variable cooldown on Windfury to correspond to what is actually seen in game. Why there is such variability with haste EP values now really has me a bit confused. However running the sim with only 1000 hours is just asking for inaccuracy anyway.

The normalization only guarantees that you will get a positive haste value, not that the haste value will be consistent or progress linearly. As long as you aren't seeing negative values, everything is ok.

Rouncer · 06/12/09, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by Deathicle

Is that not correct? Windfury is 20%, Flurry is 25%, Swift Retribution is 3%. He has 13.76% haste unbuffed. So 1.1376 * 1.2 * 1.25 * 1.03 = 1.7576. 2.6 / 1.7576 = 1.479 attack speed with a 2.6 speed weapon. 12% haste would net you a 1.503 attack speed. If something is wrong with my math, please let me know!

It doesn't matter. Windfury's cooldown is not 3 seconds. It is 3 seconds +/- 0.2 seconds with a bellcurve type distribution between those points. So worrying about hasting to specifically 1.5 speed is completely pointless.

clliche · 06/12/09, 3:40 PM

Originally Posted by Rouncer

It doesn't matter. Windfury's cooldown is not 3 seconds. It is 3 seconds +/- 0.2 seconds with a bellcurve type distribution between those points. So worrying about hasting to specifically 1.5 speed is completely pointless.

But aren't there still points where certain speeds net the most windfury procs? That seems to be the case from [Enh] Windfury Weapon Cooldown . This thread never conclusively determines a confidence interval or what is determined client side and server side. If you want to test what the actual windfury cooldown is, I would say that testing on a private server would be necessary to eliminate almost all lag. I believe that the .bat that is displayed when running one on your own comp displays damage done with probably almost perfect time stamps (though i could be wrong about this one.) It seems beneficial to stay near these cds but not on those cooldowns for the best results. Whether or not this is actually a dps increase/decrease would be another problem i suppose.

Ryethe · 06/12/09, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by clliche

But aren't there still points where certain speeds net the most windfury procs? That seems to be the case from [Enh] Windfury Weapon Cooldown . This thread never conclusively determines a confidence interval or what is determined client side and server side. If you want to test what the actual windfury cooldown is, I would say that testing on a private server would be necessary to eliminate almost all lag. I believe that the .bat that is displayed when running one on your own comp displays damage done with probably almost perfect time stamps (though i could be wrong about this one.) It seems beneficial to stay near these cds but not on those cooldowns for the best results. Whether or not this is actually a dps increase/decrease would be another problem i suppose.

I believe the conclusion was that the server will hold procs that fall near the end of the CD window and fire them when the CD expires. While its true lag can not be discounted, no other proc/buff behaved this way with this sort of delay or separation from the actual hit. The only reasonable conclusion is that the server holds procs. If this is the case, then you will never get a negative EP for haste. You may not see a large proc increase per point at certain levels of haste, but you should not see a reduction.

Sekhem · 06/13/09, 7:16 PM

I already posted this on the EnhSim wiki page, but just to make sure everyone who might benefit from it sees it...

I've just released version 1.0 of the newly-built iEnhSim, with or without source, at ienhsim - Google Code

iEnhSim is a Cocoa-based Mac GUI for EnhSim, something that I felt was sorely missing out there.

Hammer away, find bugs, please — The Google Code page has a nice bug tracker in there, so anything you find just submit a bug for it and I'll work on fixing them in the next release.

I've also added a category in the bug tracker for feature requests, so feel free to use it for that purpose as well.

Please note that this will run on 10.5 and later only, and is Intel-platform only (as I do not have a PPC machine to test against — anyone want to lend me one? =P)

Pashaman · 06/14/09, 11:52 AM

1.6.9 - Game experience inconsistent with simulation
----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure this is the right thread, but here goes:

I am getting simulation results which are inconsistent with the in-game testing. Details:

I am using EnhSim 1.6.9 (1.7.0 crashes due to uninitialized pointers). I am simulating two sets of gear, which I'll call Old set and New set:
Old set - 4/5 valorous earthshatter (missing head item)
New set - replaces earthshatter shoulder with valorous worldbreaker, earthshatter glove with valorous worldbreaker and earthshatter legs with [Leggings of the Tireless Sentry] . The exact details of the 2 sets are at the end of this message. In terms of set bonuses I am trading the 2piece and 4piece earthshatter bonuses in Old set for the 2piece worldbreaker bonus in the New set.

Anyway, I simmed the 2 sets and here are the results:
Old set - 4778 dps
New set - 4904 dps
(I tested with the 2 Rawr configs below). Obviously, New set is significantly better, right?

Except in game it's not. I went to 25man Emalon with my new gear. I am used to getting within the first 3-4 dps, and now I was somewhere in the middle of Recount. Then I went to the training dummy and did 3 x 5-minute fights with Old set on, and 3 x 5-minute fights with New set on. I did not use hero, the wolves nor any fire totem. Results:
Old set - 3173 average dps
New set - 3103 average dps

Old set is better!!!

I am further puzzled because my gems are calibrated around New set, which should make Old set even worse (e.g. I'm not expertise capped in it).

Please help me understand this. Thanks a bundle!

Attachments
------------------
OLD SET (put this in old.xml and open in Rawr):

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Character xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>pashaman</Name>
  <Realm>shadowsong</Realm>
  <Region>EU</Region>
  <Race>Draenei</Race>
  <Class>Shaman</Class>
  <ActiveBuffs>Strength of Earth Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhancing Totems (Agility/Strength)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Arcane Intellect</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Heroic Presence</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Sunder Armor</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Misery</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Flask of Endless Rage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fish Feast</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Bloodlust</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Earthshatter Battlegear 2 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Earthshatter Battlegear 4 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <CalculationOptions>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Enhance</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsEnhance xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;2&lt;/NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;
  &lt;ShattrathFaction&gt;Aldor&lt;/ShattrathFaction&gt;
  &lt;MainhandImbue&gt;Windfury&lt;/MainhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;OffhandImbue&gt;Flametongue&lt;/OffhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;FightLength&gt;6&lt;/FightLength&gt;
  &lt;TargetFireResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetFireResistance&gt;
  &lt;TargetNatureResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetNatureResistance&gt;
  &lt;BaseStatOption&gt;true&lt;/BaseStatOption&gt;
  &lt;Magma&gt;true&lt;/Magma&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsEnhance&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Bear</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsBear xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;ThreatScale&gt;10&lt;/ThreatScale&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;SurvivalSoftCap&gt;140000&lt;/SurvivalSoftCap&gt;
  &lt;TargetDamage&gt;50000&lt;/TargetDamage&gt;
  &lt;TargetAttackSpeed&gt;2&lt;/TargetAttackSpeed&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMaul xsi:nil="true" /&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMangle&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseMangle&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseSwipe&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseSwipe&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseLacerate&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseLacerate&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsBear&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Elemental</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsElemental xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;BSRatio&gt;75&lt;/BSRatio&gt;
  &lt;FightDuration&gt;300&lt;/FightDuration&gt;
  &lt;ManaPot&gt;0&lt;/ManaPot&gt;
  &lt;ReplenishmentUptime&gt;30&lt;/ReplenishmentUptime&gt;
  &lt;UseThunderstorm&gt;true&lt;/UseThunderstorm&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlameShock&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlameShock&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlametongue&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlametongue&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLava&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLava&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfShocking&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfShocking&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;
  &lt;rotationType&gt;0&lt;/rotationType&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsElemental&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
  </CalculationOptions>
  <AvailableItems>40521</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-13817</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44664</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40524</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-33808</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40523</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-53832</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39762</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40522</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-113823</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39701</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123826</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40186</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-83845</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40262</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-91603</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40074</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-133839</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40717</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40256</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44253</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40721</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-41099</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40383</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-153789</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45284</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40322</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45677</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40520</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40684</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45704</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45075</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123232</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45169</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45162</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45301</AvailableItems>
  <CurrentModel>Enhance</CurrentModel>
  <EnforceMetagemRequirements>false</EnforceMetagemRequirements>
  <Head>45164.41285.40052.0.3817</Head>
  <Neck>44664.40034.0.0.0</Neck>
  <Shoulders>40524.40034.0.0.3808</Shoulders>
  <Back>45704.0.0.0.1099</Back>
  <Chest>40523.40003.40034.0.3832</Chest>
  <Shirt>45666.0.0.0.0</Shirt>
  <Tabard>5976.0.0.0.0</Tabard>
  <Wrist>45301.40014.0.0.3845</Wrist>
  <Hands>40520.40053.40014.0.1603</Hands>
  <Waist>39762.40052.0.0.0</Waist>
  <Legs>40522.40053.40013.0.3823</Legs>
  <Feet>45162.0.0.0.3232</Feet>
  <Finger1>40074.0.0.0.3839</Finger1>
  <Finger2>40717.0.0.0.3839</Finger2>
  <Trinket1>40256.0.0.0.0</Trinket1>
  <Trinket2>40684.0.0.0.0</Trinket2>
  <MainHand>40383.0.0.0.3789</MainHand>
  <OffHand>45075.0.0.0.3789</OffHand>
  <Ranged>40322.0.0.0.0</Ranged>
  <CalculationToOptimize>[Overall]</CalculationToOptimize>
  <OptimizationRequirements />
  <WarriorTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</WarriorTalents>
  <PaladinTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000000000000000000000</PaladinTalents>
  <HunterTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</HunterTalents>
  <RogueTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</RogueTalents>
  <PriestTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</PriestTalents>
  <ShamanTalents>05303005000000000000000003020503310502133303113123105100000000000000000000000000.0000000000000100010000100000</ShamanTalents>
  <MageTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000</MageTalents>
  <WarlockTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</WarlockTalents>
  <DruidTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000</DruidTalents>
  <DeathKnightTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</DeathKnightTalents>
  <CustomItemInstances>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40014</Gem1Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <Gem2Id>40014</Gem2Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45301</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3845</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45415</Id>
      <Gem1Id>45879</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3808</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
  </CustomItemInstances>
  <WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
</Character>

NEW SET (put this in new.xml and open in Rawr):

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<Character xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema">
  <Name>pashaman</Name>
  <Realm>shadowsong</Realm>
  <Region>EU</Region>
  <Race>Draenei</Race>
  <Class>Shaman</Class>
  <ActiveBuffs>Strength of Earth Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Enhancing Totems (Agility/Strength)</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Blessing of Might</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Arcane Intellect</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Windfury Totem</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Power Word: Fortitude</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Improved Mark of the Wild</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Blessing of Kings</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Heroic Presence</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Sunder Armor</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Misery</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Flask of Endless Rage</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Fish Feast</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Bloodlust</ActiveBuffs>
  <ActiveBuffs>Worldbreaker Battlegear 2 Piece Bonus</ActiveBuffs>
  <CalculationOptions>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Enhance</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsEnhance xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;2&lt;/NumberOfFerociousInspirations&gt;
  &lt;ShattrathFaction&gt;Aldor&lt;/ShattrathFaction&gt;
  &lt;MainhandImbue&gt;Windfury&lt;/MainhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;OffhandImbue&gt;Flametongue&lt;/OffhandImbue&gt;
  &lt;FightLength&gt;6&lt;/FightLength&gt;
  &lt;TargetFireResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetFireResistance&gt;
  &lt;TargetNatureResistance&gt;0&lt;/TargetNatureResistance&gt;
  &lt;BaseStatOption&gt;true&lt;/BaseStatOption&gt;
  &lt;Magma&gt;true&lt;/Magma&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsEnhance&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Bear</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsBear xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;TargetLevel&gt;83&lt;/TargetLevel&gt;
  &lt;ThreatScale&gt;10&lt;/ThreatScale&gt;
  &lt;TargetArmor&gt;10643&lt;/TargetArmor&gt;
  &lt;SurvivalSoftCap&gt;140000&lt;/SurvivalSoftCap&gt;
  &lt;TargetDamage&gt;50000&lt;/TargetDamage&gt;
  &lt;TargetAttackSpeed&gt;2&lt;/TargetAttackSpeed&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMaul xsi:nil="true" /&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseMangle&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseMangle&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseSwipe&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseSwipe&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseFaerieFire&gt;
  &lt;CustomUseLacerate&gt;false&lt;/CustomUseLacerate&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsBear&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
    <item>
      <key>
        <string>Elemental</string>
      </key>
      <value>
        <string>&lt;?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-16"?&gt;
&lt;CalculationOptionsElemental xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"&gt;
  &lt;BSRatio&gt;75&lt;/BSRatio&gt;
  &lt;FightDuration&gt;300&lt;/FightDuration&gt;
  &lt;ManaPot&gt;0&lt;/ManaPot&gt;
  &lt;ReplenishmentUptime&gt;30&lt;/ReplenishmentUptime&gt;
  &lt;UseThunderstorm&gt;true&lt;/UseThunderstorm&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlameShock&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlameShock&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfElementalMastery&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfFlametongue&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfFlametongue&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLava&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLava&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfLightningBolt&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfShocking&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfShocking&gt;
  &lt;glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;false&lt;/glyphOfWaterMastery&gt;
  &lt;rotationType&gt;0&lt;/rotationType&gt;
&lt;/CalculationOptionsElemental&gt;</string>
      </value>
    </item>
  </CalculationOptions>
  <AvailableItems>40521</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-13817</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44664</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40524</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-33808</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40523</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-53832</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39762</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40522</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-113823</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>39701</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123826</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40186</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-83845</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40262</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-91603</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40074</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-133839</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40717</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40256</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>44253</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40721</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-41099</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40383</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-153789</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45284</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40322</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45677</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40520</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>40684</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45704</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45075</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>-123232</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45169</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45162</AvailableItems>
  <AvailableItems>45301</AvailableItems>
  <CurrentModel>Enhance</CurrentModel>
  <EnforceMetagemRequirements>false</EnforceMetagemRequirements>
  <Head>45164.41285.40052.0.3817</Head>
  <Neck>44664.40034.0.0.0</Neck>
  <Shoulders>46203.45879.0.0.3808</Shoulders>
  <Back>45704.0.0.0.1099</Back>
  <Chest>40523.40003.40034.0.3832</Chest>
  <Shirt>45666.0.0.0.0</Shirt>
  <Tabard>5976.0.0.0.0</Tabard>
  <Wrist>45301.40014.0.0.3845</Wrist>
  <Hands>46200.40013.39999.0.1603</Hands>
  <Waist>39762.40052.0.0.0</Waist>
  <Legs>45844.39999.40013.0.3823</Legs>
  <Feet>45162.0.0.0.3232</Feet>
  <Finger1>40074.0.0.0.3839</Finger1>
  <Finger2>40717.0.0.0.3839</Finger2>
  <Trinket1>40256.0.0.0.0</Trinket1>
  <Trinket2>40684.0.0.0.0</Trinket2>
  <MainHand>40383.0.0.0.3789</MainHand>
  <OffHand>45075.0.0.0.3789</OffHand>
  <Ranged>40322.0.0.0.0</Ranged>
  <CalculationToOptimize>[Overall]</CalculationToOptimize>
  <OptimizationRequirements />
  <WarriorTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</WarriorTalents>
  <PaladinTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000000000000000000000</PaladinTalents>
  <HunterTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</HunterTalents>
  <RogueTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</RogueTalents>
  <PriestTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</PriestTalents>
  <ShamanTalents>05303005000000000000000003020503310502133303113123105100000000000000000000000000.0000000000000100010000100000</ShamanTalents>
  <MageTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.0000000000000000</MageTalents>
  <WarlockTalents>000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000</WarlockTalents>
  <DruidTalents>0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000</DruidTalents>
  <DeathKnightTalents>00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.000000000000000000000000000000000</DeathKnightTalents>
  <CustomItemInstances>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40014</Gem1Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>39762</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <Gem2Id>40014</Gem2Id>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45301</Id>
      <Gem1Id>40013</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3845</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
    <ItemInstance>
      <Id>45415</Id>
      <Gem1Id>45879</Gem1Id>
      <EnchantId>3808</EnchantId>
      <ForceDisplay>true</ForceDisplay>
    </ItemInstance>
  </CustomItemInstances>
  <WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WaistBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</HandsBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
  <WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>true</WristBlacksmithingSocketEnabled>
</Character>

I logged 2 fights, one with each set, and made a spreadhseet with the results:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...gamIEmCYfwwyrw

Here are the logs:
Old set: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
New set: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
(ignore the other players, they were randoms using the test dummies around me)

Malan · 06/14/09, 12:16 PM

3x 5minute combat durations in-game is so laughably random that you may as well have just made up numbers for comparison. Remember in the sim that you're running thousands (at least, you'd better be) of hours of combat to remove all the differences in crit rates and MW procs.

If you want the sim to reflect in-game a little more, turn up the min and max lag. Too often I see people posting here with 0 or 100ms on the lag configurations. That isn't realistic at all. Even if your actual network lag is 100ms or less, there is still a human reaction time to seeing an ability ready for use and then actually hitting the button. Most people probably ought to run their lag in the sim at anywhere from 200-500ms.

Tramana · 06/14/09, 1:14 PM

Originally Posted by paladyin

1.6.9 - Game experience inconsistent with simulation
----------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure this is the right thread, but here goes:

I am getting simulation results which are inconsistent with the in-game testing. Details:

It's not clear that your results are inconsistent with the sim. Our dps can vary wildly from fight to fight. It appears that you only did 4 runs that were 5 minutes long each.

Just as an experiment I ran enhsim with my stats with combat length set to 5 min and simulation time set to 20 minutes turning off all raid buffs except self buffs. Each time I ran the experiment I got different dps results, ranging from 4250 dps to 4465 dps. That's without changing anything between runs.

Try Verges's version of the sim, and if you're still convinced that the sim is wrong, you need to isolate what mechanic is wrong yourself, or provide hours and hours of testing that still show the inconsistency.

As an aside, it would be very helpful if the sim reported statistical measures in addition to average dps, so that people know what range of dps they should expect from their setup, and know the confidence of the average dps.

Deathicle · 06/15/09, 2:56 PM

My friend asked me this question, and being the curious guy I am, I decided to do some research on it: Boss spell penetration. Now according to a wide variety of websites out there, NPCs have a 2% base resistance to spells per level above you that can not be overcome ( See: Spell penetration - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft ). Additionally, the simulator leaves spell resistance figures set at 0. Isn't this a rather important oversight? I saw spell resistance numbers all the time in a raiding situation in TBC.

If this is the case, what numbers should we be using for spell resistance? Would the standard 8*Lvl work?

kaoticz · 06/16/09, 1:17 PM

I realize this has been more than likely discussed in passing before but I'm curious as to one's thoughts on the matter.

Why do some enhance shamans use the agility meta gem over the straight crit meta gem? Crit should have a higher EP value than agility always, should it not? It benefits spells as well as melee, meaning it helps to benefit Elemental Devastation which in turn boosts your melee crit. So why would one choose the agility meta over the crit meta?