EnhSim, DPS simulator - Page 97

Nevets_69 · 02/18/09, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Next up we need an automated generation of every possible combination of gear and a batch file that runs the sim on all those files and compares the simulated DPS.

Rather than an exhaustive search, a heuristic algorithm might be a better choice. I'm not a code guy, but my personal work has been in optimization dealing with this exact sort of thing. If someone could come up with a function that runs the simulator with certain setup, I can write a program that will perform a heuristic search to find the optimal gearing. I guess the hard part is finding a way to specify gear/gem/enchant choices that is easy to pass to a function that decodes those choices into stat values, that can then be passed to the sim. Like I said, my own experience with code is limited.

Malan · 02/18/09, 7:03 PM

I think that's how the rest of the rawr modules work but since we don't have a highly accurate closed form solution we can't do that.

Levva · 02/19/09, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by OnosKT

What you enter in the simulator are your unbuffed stats. That means without the FT bonus. Assuming you export them from inside the game, your character should not have any buffs that add any kind of damage on it. (no food, no weapon chants, no elixirs/flasks, etc.). If you get your data from the armory, I am pretty sure that right now the armory shows your unbuffed stats even if you were buffed in game (I need to check this a bit more though)

The 2% spellcrit is also taken care of by the simulator, so no need to add it by yourself (as long as you select in the sim that you have the glyph equipped of course)

My testing shows that the armory figures INCLUDE the 2% spell crit from FT weapon glyph. It also includes FT weapon imbue if you logged out with that enabled so armory figures need to be treated with some caution.

crazyhammer · 02/19/09, 11:13 AM

Can we get the Sim updated:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Recent In-Game Fixes

Frostshockz · 02/19/09, 4:36 PM

I just did some sims with WS, Kel's Reach, and Cudgel of Saronite Justice (We have STILL yet to see ONE CG /sigh). All of them used SS, FT, and LS glyphs. Webbed Death with Zerker on the OH.

The results were surprising.

CoSJ came out on top with 5400, WS next and KR last. The best results were always with zerker and FT/FT (I took into consideration 9/10 FT).

This is just so sad. I didn't use WF glyph at all - since the sim doesn't have the changes in it, and it is pretty obvious that the glyph isn't going to be used at all.

I did the sims on my laptop (which doesn't have internet now), when I get home I will post the results.

Xieon · 02/20/09, 9:09 AM

With the latest Windfury Glyph nerf, I've jumped head first into the FT/FT arena and am also adjusting my gearing strategy accordingly. Besides threat issues, its been pretty interesting.

I'd like to request that the [Tears of Bitter Anguish] be added to the sim when possible. I'm in the process of tracking individual gear changes and that is one of the items that looks very appealing to the lightning mace/dagger approach I'm taking.

The AP modifier on the Windfury Glyph can also be removed based on the last bit of patch notes.

Thanks Tukez!

rava · 02/20/09, 12:19 PM

Something that I kind of overlooked until now for folks that arena is [Deadly Gladiator's Spellblade]. With it's speed and a chunk of crit it's siming very close to Torch(within 10 dps for me) and you circumvent the whole awkward caster hatred thing and have something that's guaranteed as opposed to dealing with drop rates and loot contention.

Rouncer · 02/20/09, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by rava

Something that I kind of overlooked until now for folks that arena is [Deadly Gladiator's Spellblade]. With it's speed and a chunk of crit it's siming very close to Torch(within 10 dps for me) and you circumvent the whole awkward caster hatred thing and have something that's guaranteed as opposed to dealing with drop rates and loot contention.

I'm just going to stay content with the melee weapons I currently have and if this situation persists into Ulduar then I will bid against casters for those fast caster mainhands and tell them to take any complaints they have to Blizzard for making us work this way.

(e) to remove some of the personal QQ from the post.

tukez · 02/20/09, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Xieon

I'd like to request that the [Tears of Bitter Anguish] be added to the sim when possible.

What's the cooldown?

Bellante · 02/20/09, 6:23 PM

I would like to hear from some of the experienced enha raiding shamans that follow these forums: How close is the sim to your actually observed dps? By this I mean your collected experienced dps over weeks of raiding on most "normal" bosses. I realise this kind of question can receive endless remarks and snickers and discussions over "what do you mean by normal", etc., but try to bear with me and tell me your gut feeling and experiences.

On a personal level, I find that the simulator has always overstated my dps. I try to do my rotation/priority list according to what the sim suggests, and it just never reaches that level.

nikoa · 02/20/09, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Bellante

I would like to hear from some of the experienced enha raiding shamans that follow these forums: How close is the sim to your actually observed dps? By this I mean your collected experienced dps over weeks of raiding on most "normal" bosses. I realise this kind of question can receive endless remarks and snickers and discussions over "what do you mean by normal", etc., but try to bear with me and tell me your gut feeling and experiences.

On a personal level, I find that the simulator has always overstated my dps. I try to do my rotation/priority list according to what the sim suggests, and it just never reaches that level.

You have to realize that you are human, so you will make mistakes, react a bit slower, lag all those things will make your DPS lower. To me that translates to about 50-150 DPS, and the more movement there is the wider the gap becomes because a) my dps is not continuous b) my attention is diverted c) I am trying to not die.

tukez · 02/20/09, 6:41 PM

I made a new section to EnhSim website for wishes and bugs to help me with the development. I don't always catch the requests for the sim from this thread and often forget about them. From now on, if you have a request or bug to report, please add it to the EnhSim website too.

Dragon-CR · 02/20/09, 7:18 PM

I think it honestly depends on gear level as to how consistent your numbers will be with higher gear levels being more consistent. A lucky or unlucky streak @ 20% melee crit / 15% spell crit in mostly blues is going to affect things like elemental devastation and flurry more, causing wild variations in up times vs 32% melee / 28% spell where even a "bad" streak is still 80%+ uptime for both. Patchwork is obviously the best fight to compare sim vs real world performance.

Personally I don't like to give DPS values for changes, but if you're more than 20% off your sim value on PW and gemmed/enchanted ideally, with ideal consumable buffs, then you probably want to seriously take a look at your priorities and/or rotations and make sure you're using things as soon as they come off CD and keep fire totems up, etc... If you, or the whole raid, seems to have an off night, check raid comp. Did the mage respec arcane and now there's no IS/AC? That can wreak havok with your ED uptime, which in turn might affect flurry uptime. Did they forget a boomkin/SP? Losing 3% hit can have a larger than 3% impact due to missed procs.

If you're within 10% work on tightening timings, you're doing good and likely placing respectively on the charts, but there's still room for improvement.

If you're within 5% of your sim DPS you're doing well, may still need work on priorities and awareness, but you're well within the band where your results may be more at the mercy of the RNG than your playstyle.

The sim isn't perfect unfortunately and there's a few tricks you can do in game to boost your numbers that aren't accounted for, but there's pretty much always room for improvement in your personal game, even if you consistently get the same numbers the sim does.

I would like to add that one of the things that isn't emphasized here enough, esp with as much as we throw around "sim it" is the sim results aren't guaranteed. Every time you hit the attack button with a boss targeted you're rolling the dice. The sim is just a way to coax the RNG to roll in your favor more often than not.

Originally Posted by tukez

I made a new section to EnhSim website for wishes and bugs to help me with the development. I don't always catch the requests for the sim from this thread and often forget about them. From now on, if you have a request or bug to report, please add it to the EnhSim website too.

Wub

Skiace · 02/20/09, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bellante

I would like to hear from some of the experienced enha raiding shamans that follow these forums: How close is the sim to your actually observed dps? By this I mean your collected experienced dps over weeks of raiding on most "normal" bosses. I realise this kind of question can receive endless remarks and snickers and discussions over "what do you mean by normal", etc., but try to bear with me and tell me your gut feeling and experiences.

On a personal level, I find that the simulator has always overstated my dps. I try to do my rotation/priority list according to what the sim suggests, and it just never reaches that level.

The sim obviously represents ideal conditions which you never reach in game. On fights like Patchwerk I've gotten within a couple hundred dps of the sim at times, but that fight is too short to be much of a meter at this point.

HappyDude · 02/20/09, 8:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dragon-CR

Enchant uptimes feel a bit off in the simulator for me, especially compared to what I'm observing in game. Here's an example from a recent run I did with CG/WD both with Berserking and 4pc T7 (100000 hr run):

flurry uptime                  85.14%
unleashed rage uptime          0.00%
elemental devastation uptime   80.77%
elemental oath uptime          0.00%

mh enchant uptime              36.68%
oh enchant uptime              26.71%

They both seem especially low to me considering Berserking lasts 15 seconds without refresh, meaning if it gets its assumed 1PPM, that even with zero haste or other special attacks it should have a theoretical 25% uptime. Granted over time some of those will be back to back or occure while a previous buff is in effect which will serve to lower the overall uptime, but with flurry, WF totem, and other haste effects the PPM should be closer to 1.7, and that's before considering LL and SS. I also realize that the fast speed of WD reduces the procs from SS and LL, but the amount shown here seems a bit extreme.

I know I see berserking up quite a bit, so much that it's more unussual to NOT have at least one buff than it is to have one, and dual berserking buffs is nowhere near uncommon so both of those uptimes feel highly suspect to me from in game observations.

It feels as if the sim isn't taking haste effects into account to boost PPM rate, and is assuming 1PPM at all times plus procs from instant attacks.

Maybe I'm wrong, does anybody know of a mod we can use to track procs? I know we can't tell which weapon the proc came from but a mod could show uptime for 1x buff and 2x buffs.

I've already posted this on the bug page for the simulator, but the PPM for berserking and mongoose seem to be too low. It's using a value of 1.0 rather than 1.2 as expected from The Retribution Paladin Thread (Wrath/3.0) and Proc Mechanics.

However, unlike the OP suggests, haste effects are not thought to increase the effective PPM of autoattacks.