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Old 11/13/08, 4:53 PM   #1
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
[Elemental] TTT Entry Work-In-Progress

Shaman: Elemental

Last edited by Binkenstein : 02/05/10 at 5:49 PM.

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Old 11/18/08, 12:27 PM   #2
Samou
Glass Joe
 
Troll Shaman
 
Ravenholdt
The document looks to be a good start. Would spell coefficients be a good item to include? Perhaps in the table of spells, or if not, in the description of the spells?

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Old 11/19/08, 12:42 PM   #3
Twistedtotem
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Cho'gall
Quick Question

Is the true hit cap going to be 17%(calculating eliminating the 1% hit) with is roughly 360 spell hit for elemental.
Also with LvB is it better to gem for Crit? SP? or Crit/SP? or are we going to stay with Haste.

Thanks Bink
Great start so far.

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Old 11/19/08, 12:46 PM   #4
Nite_Moogle
I prefer the term treasure hunting
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Twistedtotem View Post
or are we going to stay with Haste.
Based on extremely casual observation, haste is going to be less of a driving factor than in the TBC era until you hit break points on it. I've got a very small amount of haste, and I'm waiting a split second for Lava Burst to come up in what seems to be the natural rotation. The modeling on this is pretty complex as a result so if it's taking Binksypoo a while to come up with the right information there's a good reason for it. You're probably best stacking pure spellpower with spellpower/hit and spellpower/sta to hit cap against bosses and match gem slots. Lava Burst provides enough crit-on-demand that you don't need to feel obligated to keep a minimum crit value in order to keep Elemental Oath up.

Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.

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Old 11/19/08, 5:05 PM   #5
Ghando
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Haste is nice. Much like TBC, everything you're doing as an Elemental Shaman aside from re-casting Flame Shock every 18 seconds (assuming you have the Glyph, which you should) has a cast time and haste will scale nicely because of it. As for crit, there's enough passive crit bonuses that it's probably not worth gemming for it right now. Even with a low-end 15% crit rate on your character sheet, you're adding 5% from Elemental Oath (guaranteed with a Lava Burst every 9-10 seconds) and 3% from Totem of Wrath and 5% from Lightning Mastery and 5% from Moonkin Aura and 3% from a Ret Paladin and the list goes on. Crit will be fine in a raid situation. Just remember as a generally universal rule, spell hit is going to be your most valuable stat until you're capped.

I write a humor blog: http://idropthings.blogspot.com

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Old 11/19/08, 5:14 PM   #6
Jakuniku
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Uther
Originally Posted by Ghando View Post
Haste is nice. Much like TBC, everything you're doing as an Elemental Shaman aside from re-casting Flame Shock every 18 seconds (assuming you have the Glyph, which you should) has a cast time and haste will scale nicely because of it. As for crit, there's enough passive crit bonuses that it's probably not worth gemming for it right now. Even with a low-end 15% crit rate on your character sheet, you're adding 5% from Elemental Oath (guaranteed with a Lava Burst every 9-10 seconds) and 3% from Totem of Wrath and 5% from Lightning Mastery and 5% from Moonkin Aura and 3% from a Ret Paladin and the list goes on. Crit will be fine in a raid situation. Just remember as a generally universal rule, spell hit is going to be your most valuable stat until you're capped.
Elemental Oath doesn't stack with Moonkin Aura, and Totem of Wrath doesn't stack with ret pally crit.

Unless I'm forgetting something, the +crit bonuses you can get are:

+5 Call of Thunder (lightning only)
+5 Thundering Strikes
+2 Glyph of Flametongue Weapon
+5 Elemental Oath/Moonkin Aura
+3 Totem of Wrath/Ret Pally thing
+10 Winter's Chill / Imp Scorch
-----
+30% crit on lightning spells, 25% for everything else

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Old 11/19/08, 5:48 PM   #7
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by Samou View Post
The document looks to be a good start. Would spell coefficients be a good item to include? Perhaps in the table of spells, or if not, in the description of the spells?
Easily added into that table, although I'm unsure of the TS co-eff atm.

The biggest reason that it's taking a while to put together is that I'm levelling like everyone else :o.o:

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

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Old 11/19/08, 8:39 PM   #8
Ghando
Bald Bull
 
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Tauren Shaman
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Jakuniku View Post
Elemental Oath doesn't stack with Moonkin Aura, and Totem of Wrath doesn't stack with ret pally crit.
My B, and I can't believe I forgot Thundering Strikes. Anyway, my point stands. Hit will be the most valuable thing (along with spellpower) for the immediate future. Haste and crit will be gravy until you're hit capped, and after that I'd lean towards haste.

I write a humor blog: http://idropthings.blogspot.com

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Old 11/20/08, 3:53 PM   #9
-Abakus-
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Shaman
 
Draka
haste has certain plateaus because of the cooldown of LvB. crit isn't as valuable as before because LvB is a guaranteed crit with flameshock up, so all the crit rating on your gear is in a sense "wasted" every LvB. so hit until cap, and then our best stat is hands down spellpower

Edit: didn't see Nite_Moogle's post. for those who don't know, a "plateau" (at least in my usage) means a range of reduced effectiveness that should be avoided.

EDIT2: i haven't changed anything in this post aside from adding the "edits"

Last edited by -Abakus- : 11/21/08 at 1:24 PM.

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Old 11/20/08, 4:18 PM   #10
Zomglazerpew
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Priest
 
Drenden
Originally Posted by -Abakus- View Post
haste has certain plateaus because of the cooldown of LvB. crit isn't as valuable as before because LvB is a guaranteed crit with flameshock up, so all the crit rating on your gear is in a sense "wasted" every LvB. so hit until cap, and then our best stat is hands down spellpower
Yes but to much haste can create gaps in your spell rotation making you have to stop casting or you will miss a LvB. Shamans are going to be a very precise class now that needs a certain amount of everything to work to its full potential.


Edit Misspell.

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Old 11/20/08, 4:32 PM   #11
Nite_Moogle
I prefer the term treasure hunting
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
You just repeated his post, which was a reiteration of what I already posted further up in the thread.

Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.

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Old 11/20/08, 7:07 PM   #12
Mitrandir
Glass Joe
 
Orc Shaman
 
Aegwynn (EU)
@spellhaste topic

The whole thing with scaling plateau/gaps and waiting for cooldowns stuff isn't that bad if you choose your rotation correctly.
I made a little rotation study which i posted in the european shaman forum at the beginning of this week.
Ele Shamy - DPS on Haste/Rotation Study
The conclusion is that superduper designed roations with tryings to optimize LvB and CL cooldown are at higher hastelevel nearly impossible to build and that they blow right after you geht some new haste stuff.
At the end the following rotations style was the most effective to go.

FS LvB CL x*LB LvB CL y*LB - where x and y has to be choosen according your hasterating

The problem of the superduper cooldown constructions with more than 1 CL between 2 LvB is anyway to keep them up without struggling - what would result in a higher dps loss. For the most spellhaste levels they are unconstructable anyway

BTW: H,i i'm new to here but following the forum and theoriecraft about elemental shaman quite some time

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Old 11/20/08, 11:23 PM   #13
Zomglazerpew
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Priest
 
Drenden
Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle View Post
You just repeated his post, which was a reiteration of what I already posted further up in the thread.
Yea that wasn't his original post, it was something about having alot of haste.

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Old 11/21/08, 3:52 AM   #14
Ston
Glass Joe
 
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Draenei Monk
 
Feathermoon
I noticed that in the Lootrank links, intellect has a rating value of 0. Threw me for a moment trying to figure out why it thought a level 70 instance drop was better than my Hexblade.

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Old 11/22/08, 1:46 AM   #15
Binkenstein
mumbo-jumbo-theorycrafter
 
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Pandaren Shaman
 
Saurfang
Originally Posted by Mitrandir View Post
@spellhaste topic

The whole thing with scaling plateau/gaps and waiting for cooldowns stuff isn't that bad if you choose your rotation correctly.
I made a little rotation study which i posted in the european shaman forum at the beginning of this week.
Ele Shamy - DPS on Haste/Rotation Study
The conclusion is that superduper designed roations with tryings to optimize LvB and CL cooldown are at higher hastelevel nearly impossible to build and that they blow right after you geht some new haste stuff.
At the end the following rotations style was the most effective to go.

FS LvB CL x*LB LvB CL y*LB - where x and y has to be choosen according your hasterating

The problem of the superduper cooldown constructions with more than 1 CL between 2 LvB is anyway to keep them up without struggling - what would result in a higher dps loss. For the most spellhaste levels they are unconstructable anyway

BTW: H,i i'm new to here but following the forum and theoriecraft about elemental shaman quite some time
First: the graphs are horrible. Black backgrounds make it hard to read them
Second: Using 2% intervals is too large. Try 0.5 or 0.1%. You might then see something similar to this (and I'm not even including CL/ES in that)
Third: What's the point in looking at more than 50-60% haste? We're not going to be able to get anywhere near that yet, even with heroism & haste buffs/procs.
Fourth: You may want to watch your spelling/grammar too.
Fifth: We should probably make a separate topic on elemental rotations.

Last edited by Binkenstein : 11/22/08 at 1:55 AM.

www.totemspot.com The Shaman Community Site - My blog

Totemspot Guides includes Ele & Enh guides for Mists

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