• Binkenstein

Any of the bonuses like that are the same for Skyflare as for Skyfire. The difference is the crit rating bonus.

 

drakonslair

Speaking of the Chaotic SkyFlare/Skyfire am I right in thinking there are no other alternative metas to use? I was going through the listing but didnt spot anything with a proc or effect even though there are a number of others which increase spell power the effects they have dont seem desirable.

 

Duerok

Forgive my ignorance but what does the 4/4, 5/4, etc. numbers mean exactly? I figured the bracket meant dps and the #/# meant a specific rotation but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

• Binkenstein

CSD would seem the best at the moment. All others are static bonuses, or give minor bonuses to mana regen/int which aren't that important to us.
# of LBs per half rotation.

 

gothic

One thing that has been nagging at me lately is:

While I firmly believe that this is correct (And Int * 0.006 = CritFromInt), I keep wondering why my paperdoll frame says my 765 Int is giving me 6.79% crit. Assuming straight Int / X = Crit, X would be around 112.6. If X were 166, my crit would be 4.608. So, clearly I'm overlooking something.

While it may or may not be relevant to put in the sheet, an explaination of the discrepancy we see in the EJ forums versus the paperdoll frame could be nice.

Edit: So I did read the Combat Ratings at level 80 post a few more times, but alas the (Sadly, very simple) answer wasn't mentioned in there that I was able to see. I was missing the 'class constant' value of 2.2, it seems. So, (Int/166.6666709)+2.2 appears to be the answer I was looking for.

 

• Binkenstein

See: Combat Ratings at level 80

 

gantec

Has there been any discusion on a deep ench build that I have not seen. I found a top elemental shaman on my server with this build and am currently trying it out myself.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Shaman -> Talent Calculator

I have increased my sp by about 40% using this build and have noticed about a 500-800dps increase.
Flame Tongue Weapon stacks, so I am getting an addition 280sp and 2% crit from my off hand. Which is better then any offhand in the game. Not to mention I ench'd it for another 50sp.

With this spec, we get noticable sp increase with SoE, Might, Battle Shoot, Horn of Winter, Kings, (I know some of these do not stack) and all the normal sp buffs.

 

Moshne

The biggest red flag on that spec to me is the lack of Totem of Wrath. Unless you are a 2nd ele shaman, that is a priceless addition to your raid. The difference in Flametongue vs. ToW is huge and that discounts the effect of 3% crit on anything requiring multiple targets as well (your retadin is only keeping it up on the main target.)

It will also be severely weakened by the upcoming changes to SE&F, losing the coefficient will likely kill the concept behind these specs even if you can get them to work right now.

 

Ghando

I can't imagine the personal DPS increase from that build outstripping the raid DPS loss by not having Totem of Wrath and Elemental Oath. If you reliably have buffs from other players (Demo locks, Moonkin, etc.) you might be able to say you don't need to spec for the Elemental buffing spells. Of course, if you're bringing nothing to the table in terms of buffs your DPS had better be fantastic. And honestly, I don't think the DPS of that build is fantastic enough to lose those buffs. Particularly with no Lightning Overload and a gimped crit coefficient on your Lava Burst.

I'm a Shaman.

 

Idk

removed

 

Agash

Essentially, the buffs you lose can be covered by a Demo Pact specced lock with top end gear, a Moonkin and a Retri Pally (though the pallys crit bonus is only single target whereas the totem covers multiple targets). However, you also need to take into account that for a Lock to spec into Demo Pact he/she needs to sacrifice DPS too. So, even if you do have all of those buffs covered elsewhere, you will only add about 200-300 DPS to the raid which is something like 0.4%. This might reduce the duration of a boss fight by 1.5 secs. That's a whole lot of jumping through hoops for 1.5 secs!

So really, the only time it is worthwhile is if you do have 2 elemental shaman in the raid to ensure those buffs are easily covered.

 

Ghando

And what raid leader in his right mind would bring two players of a class/spec with mediocre damage and no benefit from redundancy? Bringing two Elemental Shamans is just silly unless your roster is such that you don't have a choice or you don't care about maximizing raid performance. At which point there's nothing to discuss.

I'm a Shaman.

 

• Binkenstein

Yes, there has been.

No, it's not viable.

If you wish to discuss this sort of spec, please go back to the Official WoW boards where stuff like this is the norm. This thread is intended for discussing the TTT entry itself, and as before, any conjecture of the content should be handled in separate threads (and it means I don't have to read your unique snowflake discussions).

 

Darkautumn

Hi Bink and co,

First time poster, long long long time reader..

I am having some trouble with the new rotations, and managing so many cooldowns and just trying not to feel like a r*tard.
I've spent a while trying to calculate something but I just cant figure it out, so:

my question is:
Assuming single target boss fight dps scenario, with 2000 spellpower, and 20% crit and hit capped:
How much DPS would I lose if I were to drop CL out of my rotation all together?
i.e. FS, LvB, LB, LB, LB, LB, LvB, ES, etc


This is with the new Shamanism talent if possible

 

Ghando

The answer really depends on the amount of haste you have. A LBx4 will take 7.2s with 10% haste, and you're left with almost a full second just sitting and waiting for your LvB cooldown. With Shamanism, CL won't have as clear a DPS edge over LB but its sub-1.5s cast time will make it just as flexible. And honestly, the biggest advantage to Chain Lightning in a raid situation is the flexibility it gives you in your rotation. I anticipate everybody casting CL in the next patch just as much as they do now.

I'm a Shaman.

 

Darkautumn

In regards to haste, it really does fluctuate (which is why I can't just stop screwing over my rotations)

I've got Essence of the Spider [Embrace of the Spider]

and Skycall Totem atm [Skycall Totem]


so I can have anywhere between 1% haste -> 12% haste, which is why my calculator hates me now.



If I ditch CL to simply my rotation, I just wanted to know how much was the most theoretical dps I could lose...


Also, when I have Bloodlust active.... I'm pretty sure most people would stuff up any combinations of buttons other than 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,3 during that time ( if that makes sense)

 

shaeberle

As Ghando said, you are sitting on your b** for almost a sec to wait for the lvb CD. On the other hand, considering lags and other encounter-specific factors, it might end up not being that much. I think bottomline of all this discussion is that there are no such simple answers. If you decide to cast a fifth LB though, this would make you cast fewer lvb over the entire fight, reducing your damage by 1/8 of (lvb dpsc - lb dpsc) as I understand.

As for practical reasons, I decided not to use items with haste-procs, as it messes up my rotations. As for Skycall Totem, I think the one you can easily get from Venture Co. coins is better anyway ...

 

Samou

I'm trying to reconcile some discrepancies I'm seeing in my Crit Chance on my character sheet. Everything I've found says that 166 Int ~ 1% Crit. When I do this math with my Intellect of 793 I get an additional 4.76 crit, however my character sheet lists that I am getting 6.96% crit from my Intellect. Where is this difference in numbers coming from?

I believe I answered my own question. Even though I wasn't able to find it anywhere, comparing with some guildmates, I'm guessing there is a base 2.2% crit chance from Intellect.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...s/rkaretas.png

 

• Binkenstein

This is correct

 

Gelanin

A 33/38/0 spec does actually work well currently, but will be completely obsolete with the next patch with the new changes to the Elemental tree.

I've personally used a 33/38/0 spec for about 2 weeks now, and had a nice increase in DPS. As others have noted though, i've been in the lucky situation where our raid-group actually has a second elemental shaman who gives ToW/EO buffs to the raid, so have been able to try out the 33/38/0 spec. Fully raid buffed in our raid-group, i gained about 1000 Spellpower by changing my spec from a 57/14/0 to 33/38/0 spec. DPS went up a fair bit aswell.

My "best" DPS with this spec was in Thaddius with 6767 DPS. This is obviously way more than normal due to the buffs you get in this fight. But on Patchwerk i've been at around 3600-4100 DPS, while when i was 57/14/0, i was around 3000-3300 DPS.

Below is a link to one of our Thaddius attempts:
Wow Web Stats

And a link to one of our Patchwerk attempts: (for the actual kill, i had changed to healing gear and helped heal (while still in the 33/38/0 spec)
Wow Web Stats

(PS! Keep in mind we're a casual raiding guild, with limited gear & time. So dont expect any superb numbers from those logs :-) )

However, with the upcoming changes, i cannot see any way a deep enchancement/elemental hybrid build (while being a caster) will work.

 

Samou

So, some additional questions/clarifications(trying to make sure I understand everything as I go into work on the Elemental model):

In the TTT entry you have linked from this thread, you say that Concussion stacks additively with Call of Flame and Lava Flows. In the Call of Flame entry, you show how it adds with Concussion, however no such illustration in Lava Flows.

Though, wouldn't Concussion be working with Lava Flows multiplicatively? Once you have your final increase damage from stats/talents, you're going to multiply it by your final bonus critical damage modifier. Or am I just missing something altogether?

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...s/rkaretas.png

 

• Binkenstein

The lava flows reference shouldn't be there...

 

Samou

Something else that may or may not be considered for inclusion is base stats for the races at level 80. I haven't been able to find these anywhere, but have been able to get the one's for the Horde side races, still need Draenei though.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...s/rkaretas.png

 

gothic

Draenei, level 80..
Strength: 121
Agility: 71
Stamina: 135
Intellect: 141
Spirit: 145

Edit: That's with Ancestral Knowledge. I'm not sure if that adds to the base, or bonus Int.
Edit x2: It seems that it does both, which I suppose makes sense, doesn't it.
Edit x3: I'm estimating Int to be 128 base.

 

• Binkenstein

That reminds me, I need base stats for all four races (sans talents) for SEIC.

I've also put the intro/spells/totems section across to the TTT.