I have to agree with the spirit of this post. I'm just not convinced that straight ~100 SP on this trinket makes it more valuable than the spark. No downranking makes it a bit silly to take the bell over the spark when you want/need a trinket with regen. If you want an output trinket for hots and chain heals, [Forethought Talisman] or [Illustration of the Dragon Soul] is the way to go. I only wish I had either of those, lol, so I use [Embrace of the Spider]. No way I'm spending 9-16k gold on the bell when I can get better than what it offers from switching and combining other trinkets. At least, that's what it costs on my server.

Well the +heal has a positive effect on your HPM,, which is good when you're close to getting oom on a fight, while +haste has a negative effect on your HPM. So for a real regen outfit, the bell will be prefered over the spark.

Haste does not affect your HpM. It keeps it static while increasing your HpS. The negative affect is on your "Time to OoM" from a purely mathmatical view. In reality the amount of healing that needs to be done is the same regardless of the gear you are wearing. You will run yourself out of mana faster with Haste if you're crushing HoTs and sniping heals and taking on a greater burden of the healing. If you're doing the same amount of healing in relation to all other sources, it simply reduces your reaction time.

I tried it today in VoA.
Does not proc of each jump of Chain Heal. Only one buff per cast.

While I understand the pure mathematics of haste's effect on the mana pool, I don't think the argument about the regen outfit holds up in reality. In fact, I've never understood this bit about haste being a "bad" thing in a fight where regen is an issue. Perhaps this isn't the forum where that debate ought to be taken up, but if you have so much haste that it's running you out of mana when you're chain casting, then that's simply your fault--the fault of your healing style--not the fault of your haste score. Of course SP is important for HpM, but it has nothing to do with regen in itself. If you're worried that the extra haste on [Spark of Life] will affect your "time to oom" then switch out another piece of your haste gear for one without it and revel in the extra 20 effective mp5 of the spark over [Je'Tze's Bell].

Of course its an excellent trinket, but I really think the Spark is superior.

We're not saying that haste is dead in a mana tight situation. Obviously casting spells faster at no additional cost is always better. We're just saying that 106 spellpower is an enormous advantage over 73 haste and 20 haste from a HPM perspective. Additionally, 106 spellpower has a big advantage over 73 haste and 20 haste in a HPS situation.

So as with all haste gear, it's mostly useful in situations where there is a need for fast small heals to get people's hp up extremely fast instead of raw healing output or efficiency.

Just thought I'd post a little more info in support of [Soul Preserver]

From a semi-recent Sarth 3D run

1st Half Wow Web Stats
2nd Half Wow Web Stats

Mana cost of CH: 643
First half duration: 2'27"
Procs first half: 3
Second half duration: 5'14"
Procs second half: 9

Total: 12 procs in 7'41"

12*643 = 7716
7'41" = 461"
7716 / 461 * 5 = ~83.6 MP5

It's all subject to play style, I still try to run high haste(over int), high MP5 and run a lot of CH (gogo BC strats). While the tactic puts a lot more pressure on my mana and I find myself running alot lower on long fights then other healers I find myself the only one able to even contend regularly with HL spamming paladins and their 1 minute mana tide.

hi i am new at this forum and dont speak english very well, i want to know if anybody knows about it if the [Je'Tze's Bell] and the [Spark of Life] share internal cd , i alredy have [Je'Tze's Bell] and i can say that i am very happy with it , right now i use the bell with [Figurine - Sapphire Owl] with 2 +11 mp5 gems on it and i dont have mana pool problems but, i read the last posts about the [Spark of Life] and want to know about the internal cds, cause if they dont share cd i think that [Spark of Life] and [Je'Tze's Bell] toguether are a good option to a high end gear so i wait for your answers thx

They don't share the internal CD and proc quite often together making it a very potent setup.

Quick update: Living Ice Crystals can proc earthliving.

This is my first post but I thought I would start here I was thinking about trying to get a hold of [Soul of the Dead] and Living Ice Crystals for a build I'm going to try because I need the extra regen. I'm going to need it for trying to get to 600 haste rating because from what I have seen from some Uldar fights so far there is a lot of raid damage and I just want to be ready for it.

Now the question is if those 2 trinkets will give me the best combo of regen or is there better combo, right know I am useing [The Egg of Mortal Essence] and MAS.

I would tend to disagree ... for chain healing that is. (as far as stacking illustration procs I tend to use searing totem.)

This is a brief rundown of why [Soul Preserver] is better than [Je'Tze's Bell] for chain heal spam fights.

Assumed/Givens
It has no internal cd, this is a given.
It procs off of chain heal jumps.
Chance to proc is 2% (just like the [Eye of Gruul], which many of us are assuming this is a replica of, so identical initernal mechanics can be assumed)

To calculate the static mp5 we goooo lieeeeek so [it's a bit lengthy... but goes in depth] :

chain heal = 4 target spell (assuming glyphed)

We then assume that each chain heal takes 2 seconds to cast (which isn't even that fast, if i throw on my haste gear i'm at 2.02 second chain heal with ONLY wrath of air totem down, no other buffs).

thus, 4 healing spells in 2 seconds.

it would take 50 casts/healing spells to guarantee a proc (2% * 50 = 100% proc chance [doing this to ensure there is a proc in our theoretical data sample]).

So then we divide the number of spells needed to ensure a proc (50) by the number of spells being cast (in this case, 4, due to assuming raid is constantly taking damage and your ch is glyphed and jumps 4 times, this would be similar to a sapphiron fight in our case) which gives us 12.5 casts in order to proc [Soul Preserver]. Units would be something like 12.5 casts/proc?

Then to get it into seconds per proc you would multiply by secs/cast (2 seconds to cast 1 chain heal) which would give you 25 seconds total PER proc. This means that youre getting essentially 643 mana back per trinket proc which is once every 25 seconds.

In order to convert this into mana per 5, we'll want to divide the entire system/data by 5 seconds (25/x = 5, x comes out to 5 [just laying everthing out there lol]), since were getting 643 mana back per proc which is every 25 seconds, so, that would be 128.6 mana per 5 seconds.

In short, the [Soul Preserver] provides you with a STATIC 128.6 MANA PER 5 WHILE CASTING (If using [Totem of Forest Growth]) and 144.2 MANA PER 5 WHILE CASTING (If using [Totem of the Bay]) on certain raid heal spammable fights.

There's no doubt that this beats the Bell, the chance to proc 100 mp5 is obviously unequal and lesser to a static 128.6 mp5 while casting ... so there's no need to go into detail there...

I'm not saying replace your trinkets with this because it's UBER AWESOME, because each fight is different and requires different gear, ie, you can't spam chain heal on kt because everyone's so spread out, which is why [Soul of the Dead] would be a much more viable trinket for a fight like that, I'm just saying that the [Soul Preserver] beats [Je'Tze's Bell] hands down in a raid healing situation.

*NOTE* - Also, i feel as though this will return a higher experimental mp5 due to having a faster chain heal cast in raids, somewhere around 1.9 seconds. I'm actually aiming to get my unbuffed chain heal cast down to 2 seconds flat, which would require exactly 656 haste assuming 1 haste give %0.03049 reduced cast time, which I'm fairly certain it does.

If anyone cares to disagree with my calculations please let me know, I've triple checked these and feel that they're solid and on par with the theoretical values they produce. I have yet to test it though. I'll be in Halls of Lightning tomorrow and test it out on the Loken fight where everyone has a constant deficit in health and get back to you guys with solid trinket proc ratings that are actually factual.

-Maat

EDIT

Just scrolled up. Alright, so, I was looking at the post orion made about the soul preserver.

Annnnnd, this equates to 1 proc every 38.4167 seconds, WHICH, is right on with my calculations. While it isn't exact (isn't exact = 50% error lolol), this was his entire fight (i believe) which means that he's not constantly healing, he's casting healing wave, riptide and lhw as well, meaning his proc rate's going to be lower due to a lower amount of Spells cast/second.

Currently scrolling up and reading more data on trinkets ...


*NOTE* - This is assuming the cost of chain heal is reduced by 76 using [Totem of Forest Growth]. Personally, I use [Totem of the Bay] since I never run out of mana anymore, so returned mp5 is going to be higher for me, or any other shaman using the bay totem.

Thanks for the quote, your math works in a direction of which most people have been aware since the Eye of Gruul days. If you run a high CH rate then bar-none Soul Preserver is going to be your best-in-slot regen trinket, rivaled only by Soul of the Dead (parse records putting it around 90% Soul Preserver) and, I'll get to this later, Living Ice Crystals. The problem with Soul Preserver however is the RNG factor. It technically speaking has no ceiling, and similarly no base; I have seen this trinket chain-proc up to 6 times, and done entire Patchwerk kills with 0 procs. Any math anyone tries to do, myself included, on this trinket is anecdotal at best and should always be taken with a grain of salt. If you're having mana issues and you like chain heal this is very likely the trinket for you.

There's a broken bit of logic here that escaped me the first time I saw this trinket and passed it to a now non-raider. While the PVP utility of this trinket is baseball-bat-to-the-face obvious there is another element to consider here. This trinket offers 43 passive MP5, not bad, but only about half the effective MP5 of the Soul trinkets. The elusive part however is that the heal is effectively a down ranked LHW. LHW, 626 mana, let's call effective healing at 80% for posterity and assume it's used on every CD.
626*0.8 = 500.8
500.8 / 12 = 41.73 (repeating, of course) MP5
This brings it right back up in the 80MP5 ballpark of the Soul trinkets, the difference here however is that while the Soul trinkets will boost crit or spellpower Living Ice offers a similar bonus to throughput on top of Silence/Slow utility. Personally, I'd drop Soul Preserver for it, just because it suits my play-style.

EDIT: should be noted that despite the tooltip, LIC heals for 3.5-4.5k with 5/5 Purification.

First of all the effective mana cost of LHW is not 626 mana unless you don't have water shield up. With water shield up and average crit amounts raid buffed LHW is more like 480-500 mana. Secondly with crit and AA (lets assume you aren't casting this on a ES'd tank) LHW heals for about 7k making the trinket only about 60% of a LHW. This ratio will only decrease over time as your spell power increases.

Note: If you didn't average crit into that 4k it will raise the ratio a little but not by that much since it does not get AA.

So if we calculate an average 4k heal as the mana saved from a LHW it would yeild:
4k/6.9k = ~60% of a LHW
LHW avg mana cost 500
500*.6 = 300 mana
300 mana / 60 s = 5 mps
(5mana / 1s) / (1mana /5s) = 25 mp5
so total effective mp5 would be 43 + 25 = 67mp5.
I think this is about as idealized as you get argue for this trinket and its still below other pve trinkets.

You could also argue that LHW hpm isn't nearly as good as HW, and compare LIC's heal to HW's and end up with a much lower effective mp5. I'm just not inclined to believe this trinket should be used in pve unless you really haven't gotten anything better. But I'd agree its not a horrible trinket.

Outside of PvP, I only use living ice crystals as a ghetto second instant cast heal for the vortex in Maly10.

As others have pointed out the mechanics on the "eye of gruul" type trinket has been know for some time. If you look in my sheet I model the mp5 returns of several of the better pve trinkets (including soul preserver) and allow you to modify average cast time and number of hits per cast. Your post is fine, but I would be a little more careful with wording. 50 spell/casts do not guarantee a proc. 50 casts is just the average number of casts to get a proc (nitpicking I know). As others have pointed out its possible to go several minutes of chain spamming without a proc but its also possible to get 5 procs in a row. Thats the RNG for you.

I'm actually pretty excited about Ulduar trinkets. WoTLK has been pretty bland so far in the way of trinkets - will be nice to have a few to play around with. Nice compilation by the way.

Show of Faith (ilvl 239 location of this trinket is unknown) and Sif's Remembrance (ilvl 226 from Thorim-10 Hard) should be added.

Both are carbon copies of Memento/Je'tze's Bell with more stats.

Anyways, picked up Pandora's Plea and Sif's Remembrance this week. The mana regen from these seem pretty intense, Plea's proc rate seems really high although I haven't done any serious testing. I just seem to see it pop up a lot. I'll have to actually do some conclusive testing soon. Any mods to watch procs for?

You can see on wowhead that the procc chance is 10%, and I think it's safe to assume a 45 second internal cooldown as with almost all similiar items. Also interesting to note that the procc only gives 751 spellpower, and not 850 as the tooltip says.

The Yogg25 hard trinket (Show of Faith) is pretty clearly best in slot. After that Eye of the Broodmother (pure thoroughput), Pandora's Plea (mainly for the int since the proc is close to useless), Sif's Rememberance, and Scale of the Fates are decent options. I personally like Scale of the Fates for fights with predictable raid damage (IE Earthquake on XT).

I'm sort of confused as to why you believe that any of these trinkets would outweigh Soul of the Dead, at least for pure regen. Its worth about 70 mp5 assuming one PPM, which is generous considering it has a 45 sec internal cooldown with a 25% chance to proc on crits.

140 spell power and ~44 mp5 is not clearly best in slot. This will depend how much you weigh mp5. I've added all the thinkets of note to my sheet and added in the HEP values based on your stats HEP weights.

Looking at the trinket total HEP values with a 1:1 for healing to mp5

1. 218 HEP - [Pandora's Plea]
2. 200 HEP - [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
3. 187 HEP - [Scale of Fates]
4. 184 HEP - Show of Faith (when linked with item tag this is currently producing an error. I'll edit this back when fixed)

P.S. The trinket sheet is admittedly ugly so I'll be cleaning it up in a tidy list when I get the chance.