We either discuss this or talk about internet rumors such as Megan Fox appearing less than clothed or Felicia Lee(Tang) being murdered.
That's a huge derail, in order not to get banned I'll add . . .
My duty on TwinValk kills in heroic has been attending to goalies health needs. Besides a haste trinket I might able to get from arena are there haste trinkets I may have forgotten?
There is [Spark of Life] from Sjonnir The Ironshaper aswell. Rather good in my opinion, i use it myself for fights i like to play with high hasteraiting.
I have replaced the information in my original post with the Trinket section of the Resto Shaman TTT. This has the most accurate and up-to-date information.............
Haven't been through all the pages in this thread but I didn't see [Tears of the Vanquished] been mentioned, I tried it on a pally the other day and it seemed to have quite a nice proc rate, any suggestion on this when it comes to shamm's?
This is all assuming you haven't been lucky enough/had other better trinks avialble to you, any comments from ppl about this?
There is [Spark of Life] from Sjonnir The Ironshaper aswell. Rather good in my opinion, i use it myself for fights i like to play with high hasteraiting.
[Scale of Fates] is a good haste item esp if you know ahead of time that burst healing will be needed but there really aren't that many healing haste type trinkets to chose from.
[Tears of the Vanquished] Is a decent regen trinket its certainly not the best. I have a listing of all the trinkets (although I have not added the heroic versions of them yet) you can compare them in my spreadsheet.
Haven't been through all the pages in this thread but I didn't see [Tears of the Vanquished] been mentioned, I tried it on a pally the other day and it seemed to have quite a nice proc rate, any suggestion on this when it comes to shamm's?
This is all assuming you haven't been lucky enough/had other better trinks avialble to you, any comments from ppl about this?
It's a decent trinket for a starter level shaman, but no shaman should be using int trinkets in 3.2.
Rapparee, there isn't a lot of haste trinket :
- The problem with the one from Heroic is that it's a low level item and you'll lose a lot of stat by equiping it. Not really worth it if you look at the overall capacity of your char. Now if the goal is to break the record of haste, yes you can go for that one.
- There is the one from pvp : [Battlemaster's Vivacity], but you loose some stat as you'll have resilience or a 4600 heal as second power on it.
- The [Scale of Fates] are the best choice but I don't like 'on use' trinkets (that's a personal opinion) and wouldn't take it in any case.
I checked the trinkets from WowHead and couldn't find any others (I stopped at ilvl 226 trinkets, as lower ones would mean too much stat loss). I don't know why, but Blizzard don't really like to put haste on their (our) trinkets.
Steiny, with the 3.2 new mechanics (water orbs not being consumed and the Chain Heal being able to restore mana) int isn't that much of an important stat now. Same goes for MP5. It's better to keep the [Show of Faith] or [Sif's Remembrance] or [Eye of the Broodmother] from Ulduar while waiting for having both the normal and heroic version of [Solace of the Defeated].
Now of course that is supposing that you got some choice. Meaning that you can access to (or you already possess) those trinkets. For someone who just reach 80 or was totally unlucky with drops, [Talisman of Resurgence] is a decent choice.
(My current resto spec is for arena's, it's not my pve resto spec) Even with my pve resto spec I seem to have mana issues when I was using sp/haste+sp/mp5 trinkets. In pve gear I have ~21,500 mana using the Int/mp5 trinket and can tell a noticable difference between wearing the int/mp vs. sp/haste.
The quote in question is assuming that the shaman is keeping up with the current PvE tiers. Meaning, if you are done with Ulduar and have moved on to ToC, you shouldn't be wearing INT trinkets, as you should not be having mana issues. If, however, you are still doing Naxx as of 3.2, that is a different story.
Not all fights are equal, especially in TOC. Wearing an int trinket such as [Tears of the Vanquished] or [Pandora's Plea] are still good options. Although int may have a diminished value as a result of the 3.2 changes, it does not mean it is worthless. The best option is to run a HEP report and evaluate what trinkets suit your healing style best based upon the HEP values. Most of this discussion has revolved around the argument that the only reason you would have more intellect is because it gives you more mana, while this may be the primary reason for stacking int, there are auxiliary benefits to doing so, such as increased crit, benefit from replinishment, more mana back from mana tide, and bonus healing.
Not all fights are equal, especially in TOC. Wearing an int trinket such as [Tears of the Vanquished] or [Pandora's Plea] are still good options. Although int may have a diminished value as a result of the 3.2 changes, it does not mean it is worthless. The best option is to run a HEP report and evaluate what trinkets suit your healing style best based upon the HEP values. Most of this discussion has revolved around the argument that the only reason you would have more intellect is because it gives you more mana, while this may be the primary reason for stacking int, there are auxiliary benefits to doing so, such as increased crit, benefit from replinishment, more mana back from mana tide, and bonus healing.
Yes, that is exactly what we have done, and the results indicate that intellect is a bad stat. Our own experiences also tells us that we very rarely have any mana issues, and even though int gives additional benefits from spellpower and crit, it's value will be heavily reduced if you don't need the mana.
[Pandora's Plea] is still a decent trinket since the average spellpower it provides is very high, it might even be the best pre-toc-trinket. [Tears of the Vanquished] on the other hand, provides very little benefits is mana has little significance and is thus not worth using unless you really have no good options.
The only ToC 25H fight where I think I would consider a heavy regen trinket is Anub on heroic, where you are tank healing. The others just do not have enough of a stress on our mana pool to make regen a requirement over throughput.
<Gwaihir> mage time is like booterang
<Gwaihir> AUGH BOOTERANG
<Gwaihir> AUGH MAGE TIME
<Ama> AUGH MAGE TIME
<XI|> AUGH MAGE TIME
I have been using pandora plea for a while now. I find the trinket to be extremely valuable. The static int lets me gear more towards throughput w/ less worry about mana, although the proc is the reason why i value the trinket so much.
With that proccing, which quite often, as well as the new resto relic, it bumps my earthshields tremendously, while its relatively easy to keep track of (maybe upwards to 60-75% of my earthshields will be at that spell power)
I'm sure there are alot better ones out there, but I have always loved earthshield, and I always loved charging it up, (Since your earthshield will stay at the lvl of spell power you had, when you casted it on your target)
Especially when you throw your earthshield on a pally tank, (due to their talent, Touched by the Light, which inceases the amount healed by 30% of their critical heals, and for some reason it work with earthshield)
I've almost had some of my charged earthshields crit pallys for almost 10k, and I assure you with better gear, people could go higher.
I have been using pandora plea for a while now. I find the trinket to be extremely valuable. The static int lets me gear more towards throughput w/ less worry about mana, although the proc is the reason why i value the trinket so much.
My bolding. The Proc on Pandora's Plea is very good given the high average static SP value it provides (as MatsT pointed out above). The INT, however, is not what is letting you gear for through-put without having to worry about mana. Most of the ToGC crowd is not having mana issues, while also not using INT trinkets. INT has a very low incremental value if you dont need the mana/regen it provides.
My bolding. The Proc on Pandora's Plea is very good given the high average static SP value it provides (as MatsT pointed out above). The INT, however, is not what is letting you gear for through-put without having to worry about mana. Most of the ToGC crowd is not having mana issues, while also not using INT trinkets. INT has a very low incremental value if you dont need the mana/regen it provides.
You are probably right, although the int doesn't hurt, granted it may not be the best stat for a resto shaman, but I don't see it as being a detriment. Not sure how the int would not help me alleviate regen else where? Yea, that int alone is not making me gear for through-put, but to say that it doesn't help, just simply doesn't make sense.
Are there better options out there? W/o a doubt, but I wouldn't go as far as saying that the int on the trinket sucks for a resto shaman. There is too many other factors you have to consider. The main 1, would be what your other gear is that you are wearing. I'm not saying that it is a better stat than others, but I can't see it being as bad as your making it out to be.
The only fight I've found myself using an int trinket on is HM Anub. At this point I don't even use one for Algalon even though I'm tank healing a lot for it.
The point hes making is that if you aren't going oom at the end of fights all you are getting from the int is minimal spellpower and crit. You would get a lot more spellpower and/or crit from a different trinket. Personally I'm fine with full haste gems and no int trinket on pretty much any fight with mana tide and a mana potion.
We've all seen the recent HEP reports where haste's value is at least 1.6 SP. A calculator or plugging in the values into wowhead or lootrank will reveal [Spark of Life] to be an upgrade over [Je'Tze's Bell] and even [Sif's Remembrance]. Even its returned mana is greater.
Is there some psychological barrier to equiping a blue item?
To be honest yes there is a psychologial barrier in equiping a blue. Firstly because I got fond memories around dropping an item from Ulduar HM. But the main reason is more because it seems logicial for me that an epic shoud be above a blue item (I know Blizzard sometime miss the point with the 'logical'). If the [Spark of Life] internal CD is the same as [Sif's Remembrance] one, then yes it would be better to turn back to the Spark of Life. But I think you get better mana return from Sif dur to a lower ICD.
In any case you're right about the fact that Spark is an excelent trinket and that Blizzard made a missconception with it. I can think of it as much as I want, there is no reason for me that a ilvl 200 blue item should beat a good (in term of stat repartition) ilvl 226 epic item. Epic fail ? (sorry for that poor joke)
Does anyone have some more information about the trinket set that drops from Onyxia?
250SP, 96Mp5 and a 2500-3000hp heal on proc
Has anyone tested the procrate of that heal? Also can it proc on each heal and if so what happends when it procs on a chainheal? Does the proc then jump as well?
It seems to me it is a pretty decent combo especially if you haven't had much luck in Ulduar or TotC.
Does anyone have some more information about the trinket set that drops from Onyxia?
250SP, 96Mp5 and a 2500-3000hp heal on proc
Has anyone tested the procrate of that heal? Also can it proc on each heal and if so what happends when it procs on a chainheal? Does the proc then jump as well?
The stats on [Purified Shard of the Scale] and [Purified Shard of the Flame] are pretty unimpressive. As pointed out on the priest thread, you can get much better stats from lower iLvl trinkets. The proc is uncontrollable and is not modified by your spellpower. The hp5 is laughable itemization, more a nod to level 60 gear than anything else.
To be honest yes there is a psychologial barrier in equiping a blue.
The best example I can come up with is that, before 3.2, there were only two trinkets with more stamina than [Essence of Gossamer]. Outside of guilds clearing 10-man Yogg, you'd be hard pressed finding a tank without this blue trinket, despite the fact there were plenty of epic tanking trinkets. Most tanks weren't interested in the "other stuff", they simply wanted more health.
Similarly, right now, most resto shamans value haste highly. Both [Spark of Life] and [Sif's Remembrance] have the same chance to proc (10%), same duration (15 sec) and, to the best of my knowledge, the same 45 sec internal cooldown, as all items of this genre used to have, until recently when [Solace of the Defeated] appeared with a different (and obviously much more powerful) mechanics.
The stats on [Purified Shard of the Scale] and [Purified Shard of the Flame] are pretty unimpressive. As pointed out on the priest thread, you can get much better stats from lower iLvl trinkets. The proc is uncontrollable and is not modified by your spellpower. The hp5 is laughable itemization, more a nod to level 60 gear than anything else.
Why would the cauterizing heal jump as well?
Your linking the 10 man version while I am talking about the 25 man version but ok.
So these 2 trinkets combined: 221 SP, 65Mp5 and an uncontrollable hot that heals for 3500
Onyxia trinkets combined: 250 SP, 95 Mp5 and an uncontrollable instant heal for ~2850 (also get 500hp/5 but thats more flavour I guess)
So we gain 29 SP and 30 Mp5 by taking the Onyxia set to me that sounds pretty good especially when you are very unlucky with your trinket drops like I have been ( don't even have a [Sif's Remembrance] I'm still using [Soul of the Dead] )
You can ofcourse argue that these items have a high itemlevel but they are also much easier to get since Onyxia is basicly just a loot piniata.
So we gain 29 SP and 30 Mp5 by taking the Onyxia set to me that sounds pretty good especially when you are very unlucky with your trinket drops like I have been ( don't even have a [Sif's Remembrance] I'm still using [Soul of the Dead] )
You can ofcourse argue that these items have a high itemlevel but they are also much easier to get since Onyxia is basicly just a loot piniata.
The Forethought Talisman isn't really very good, and your use of it here clouds your numbers. Replace it with [Eye of the Broodmother], another easy to obtain trinket, and you'll see that the stats on the 2 set aren't that great. I don't know if this is still true, but back at 60 it was theorycrafted that HP5 had the same itemization cost as MP5.
Anyway for their iLvl the trinkets don't seem that great, and if your guild is farming 25 ony then you have access to much better. They're not terrible, they're not great- you can compare them to what you have and if they're better, then use them.
Secondly, I did pick up an acceptable haste trinket. [Ancient Pickled Egg] as mentioned before. I use it for fights where I'm randomly throwing out CH vs. LHW and don't know at any one time when i'll be doing which. Namely the 25person Twins heroic.
Egg plus forethought are my trinkets of choice on that fight as they are my personal highest throughput trinkets. I drop the [Show of Faith], because we kill twins fast enough that I won't run out of mana.
That calculation was done in a different tier of content, with different bosses, different gear, and different shaman talents. I did the same calculations with values from my most recent shaman_hep report:
Assume a proc every 50s (your assumption from 2 months ago).
3572 / 50 = 71.44 hps
71.44 / 0.509 = 140.4 hep with no overheal
140.4 - 47% = 65.8 hep with typical hot overheal
111 + 66 = 177 hep
Since we're assuming mana is not an issue, compare to Eye of the Broodmother, with healing output value for crit (rather than overall value).
87 * .7085 + 125 = 187 hep
So Forethought Talisman is amazing for its ilvl, retains surprising value well beyond its tier of content, and should not be discounted. It's not the best pure throughput trinket currently available though.
09/19/09, 3:27 AM
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