Kaytikat

Yes, if Patchwerk were at all difficult to heal I'd probably spec Healing Way as well. As it is, though, I'd say the points are a waste for a single fight so long as you have a couple of proper tank healers in the raid (especially Beacon of Light paladins).

Yes, we have two scales. The reason I'm not including haste on the longevity scale is simply because that scale is a more correctly labelled Regeneration and anytime you require more mana you should be falling back to this scale on its own to select your gear. The combined scale is much more of a general guide for gear selection, with the individual scales becoming more important when you know your exact needs. This is similar to enhancement shaman who will calculate their own unique EP scale everytime they change an item.

Compare your Replenishment returns to my own report (I'm Tinco) and you can see the importance of 2 sources of Replenishment and 100% uptime: Wow Web Stats.

I also had 24k mana on that run when fully buffed and flasked.

 

sovelis41

I would say that Nature's Guardian is somewhat lackluster in the current state of raids (this could certainly change in a more dangerous environment). You could gain even more mana back by taking improved shields and also topping out your Tidal Mastery talent.

You pay for the whole chair, but you only need the edge.

 

Kaytikat

As I said, I'm currently specced for heroics

My raid spec will be 0/16/55 with 1 point in AA as it's the least bad use of the last point.

 

Vuldunobetra

Enhancing Totems vs Elemental Weapons
Elemental Weapons boosts your personal SP by 45.
Enhancing Totems boosts the raids SP by 22, Strength and Agility by 23. Unless you were confident that other raiders were bringing those buffs, I'd get Enhancing Totems first.

 

Vuldunobetra

Major Glyphs - I calculated the maximum possible ebonus ffect of each major glyph, I used 100% uptime/spamming the associated ability, ignored overheal, etc.

HW 498 hps - assuming no overheal
LHW 429 hps - assuming no overheal and 100% ES uptime
CH 207 hps - assuming 4th target always hit
ELW 180 hps - assuming 3 target CH, no overheals, no overwrites, and full duration HoT
HST 156 hps - assuming 5 targets, no overheal

MTT 66 mp5 - assuming 5 targets
WM 30 mp5 - 100% WS uptime


Assuming 100% spamming of HW (or any other ability) is terribly inaccurate. Instead, take the numbers and modify them by your style. For example, if my spell usage is split 10% HW/20% LHW/10% RT/60% CH, then I might come to:
HW 498 * 10% usage * 50% overheal = 25 hps
LHW 429 * 10% usage * 80% uptime * 80% (20% overheal) = 27 hps
CH 207 * 80% usage * 30% hit = 49hps
ELW 180 * 20% effectiveness? = 36 hps
HST 0 hps - as Mana Spring is always used

 

Daidalos

And to make things even more complicated you can take into account ELW proccing on those heals. So while CH doesn't add very much in the way of healing it does add another chance for ELW to proc where none of the other glyphs do (other than the ELW glyph of course). Also you can then take something like the ELW glyph into account when doing this as welll. (I am basing this off of the recent observation that you can now get multiple ELW procs off a single CH. If this is wrong could someone post some data on it?) but even then this will be skewed since a certain percentage of ELW will be overhelaing (which I don't know until I can gather more data for myself much less for other people)

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

bewmheels

After a full clear of Naxx25 last night i have a parse of most of it. I took particular notice of replenishment. In most cases i was top 5 in total mana gained but to me thats not the point. So i ran through each boss fight, took replenishment ticks and compared to the fight duration to really see how well replenishment is working.
I won't clutter this post up with all my findings for each fight but here's the overall uptime from 10 bosses.

Total Ticks = 1924
Total seconds = 2730
Uptime = 70.48%

Using pitbuller's numbers
1. 0.3mp5
2. 0.225mp5 (0.159mp5 using the 70.48% uptime)
3. 0.072mp5

Overall its a 11.5% loss from the total regen INT provides which is still very good. Hopefully this helps anyone that was worried about how good replenishment is in practice.

 

zang1983

Looking at these numbers, how would you rank the meta gems? I can't decide if Insightful Earthsiege Diamond (21 int, mana back proc) or Ember Skyflare Diamond (25sp, 2% int) is better. The old insightfulgem was best pre-wlk, but how would you rank these two.

 

Kaytikat

This might just be the difference between horde and alliance, but I'd be the other way round: plan for not needing enhancing totems and only take them if and when you absolutely have to. I have 1 elemental and 3 enhancement shaman on the roster (plus several of our locks are demonology and bring Demonic Pact if required) so I'm struggling to think of a situation that would require a resto to put points here. Maybe if you have a hunter heavy guild that insist on standing at max range so you need a resto to drop SoE?

The [Insightful Earthsiege Diamond] is worth 12mp5 from the int + 50mp5 from the proc (600 mana per minute). For the [Ember Skyflare Diamond] to provide that much mp5 you'd need to have approximately 5000 int!

If you're at all worried about mana then the Insightful is the clear choice. However, if you're in a guild that can assure you of 100% replenishment uptime you may want to consider the Ember. After last night's 3 healer Thaddius and 4 healer Noth and still not coming close to OOM while spamming I'm beginning to wonder how long it will be before replenishment gets nerfed though...

 

Ammanas

I know this isn't the thread for this, but has anyone done the math on which off-set piece is the best to go with 4pc T7? I couldn't find it anywhere so if someone hasn't done it yet I'll do it tomorrow.

 

jaredh

I would say you have already used 3 points less than optimal by putting 3/3 into Healing Focus. The changes to pushback have really made this talent one of the worst talents in the resto tree unless you are doing PvP.

Dump those, fill AA up, and then 1/2 into Improved Reincarnation, so you can pop and maybe have enough mana to be usefull sometimes.

As for the HEP debate: as I stated in an earlier thread, it is becoming apparent to me there are two clear Shaman healing methods in LK, MT and Raid. Both of these are mostly (save int) diametrically opposed gearing wise and we as a community should probably rate gear along both lines.

 

Ammanas

Alright, for anyone whos wondering this is what I got for substituting the different off-set pieces. For simplicity I am assuming [Luminous Monarch Topaz] for red/yellow and [Dazzling Forest Emerald] for the blues.

Chest:
[Quivering Tunic] +1 Heal | +1 MP5 | -16 Int |+8 Haste
[Tunic of the Artifact Guardian] +29 Heal | -2 MP5 | +16 Int | -74 Haste | +74 Crit

Legs:
[Legguards of the Undisturbed] +10 Heal | +7 MP5 | -22 Int | -59 Haste | +67 Crit

Helm:
[Helm of Unleashed Energy] -9 Heal | +8 MP5 | -8 Int | -17 Haste

Gloves:
[Corpse Scarab Handguards] +4 Heal | +0 MP5 | -3 Int | +4 Crit
[Bountiful Gauntlets] +9 Heal | +2 MP5 | -7 Int | -3 Crit
[Winter Spectacle Gloves] +16 Heal | +7 MP5 | -6 Int | -45 Crit | +48 Haste

Shoulders:
[Spaulders of Incoherence] -10 Heal | +6 MP5 | -12 Int | -7 Crit
[Council Chamber Epaulets] +3 Heal | -3 MP5 | -18 Int | -50 Crit | +61 Haste

I did not include any of the elemental gear although some of it might be worth looking at for fights where you don't need the regen. Theres not going to be any pure "best" piece I don't think since it seems like we will be swapping gear for different fights and you may need haste or crit more depending on what you are doing and how much you have of each. This should give a rough idea of what pieces are worth looking at though.

From a standpoint of simply most stats gained the Malygos 25 chest and gloves seem to be the best options while the shoulders and helmet are definitely the weakest.

 

Vuldunobetra

Same conclusion when using HEP.
[Insightful Earthsiege Diamond] 647 HEP
50mp5 (from proc) = 500 HEP
21 Int = 147 HEP

[Ember Skyflare Diamond] 274 HEP
25 SP = 125 HEP
22 Int (2% of 1,100) = 154 HEP

3654 Int is the breakeven point.

 

bewmheels

Would be nice if someone could get some info up on the t7 set bonuses...2 piece i know for certain is a static 10mp5 + 10% of the orb consumption which is tough to evaluate but i'm very interested in seeing the value of the bonus on chain heal @ 4 piece. How much spell power would it translate to? Assume thats all i do in a raid.

 

Kaytikat

The 4pc bonus is 5% extra healing done by chain heal. If we assume 100% chain heal casting then the total healing done with the bonus will be exactly 5% more than the same stats without the bonus. We can then solve to find out the amount of spellpower that would produce this amount of healing without the bonus.

Doing this for a range of values between 0 and 2200 results in a trend of:

T7 bonus = 0.05 * current spellpower + 32

Or, pre-calculated and tabulated:

 

Daidalos

Just to clarify, that unless they have changed the mechanics from the lvl 70 meta it is not a 1 ppm for the mana restore. 1 ppm is a decent average, but it will depend on the number of casts per min. Assuming its a 5% chance to proc with a 15s cooldown and you are spamming 1.5s casts you can get ~70mp5 back from this meta.

50mp5 is a perfectly reasonable static amount to give this meta taking to account since you will mostly be spamming a 2.5s cast and won't always be chain casting. I just don't want people to be confused how it actually works.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Daidalos

I think I'd take a different approach when calculating I'm not sure how you arrived at your values but this is how I would do it:

Assuming you have the chain heal glyph the base chain heal 7 assuming 4 targets does 2795.76 healing

4pct7 bonus would add 137.788 (.05*2795.76) additional healing over those 4 targets with imp ch and pur.


If CH hits one target its a 1x multiplier 2x = 1.5 3x = 1.75 4x = 1.825
Then solve the amount of spell power to give 137.788 additional healing
(Spellpower*1.88*(2.5/3.5)*1.1*1.2)*1.825 = 137.788
(Spellpower*1.88*(2.5/3.5)*1.1*1.2) = 75.5
(Spellpower*1.88*(2.5/3.5) = 57.19
spellpower *1.88 = 80.07
spellpower = 42.59

so 4pct7 spell power equivalent = .05*(your spell power) + 42.59
or for someone with 2k spell power it would be
100 + 42.59= 142.59 additional spell power.

Of course some of that will be lost due to overheal and some of that will be less than 4 jumps of a chain heal but you can adjust the calculation as suits you.

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Kaytikat

Ok, turns out my original calcs were slightly off as I'd only applied purification and Imp CH to the bonus heal portion (doh!). However, it looks like you multiplied by 1.2 instead of dividing when you jumped from 75.5 to 80.75, so we're both wrong!

Base heal of Chain Heal 7 averages to 1130 ((1055+1205)/2) which produces a 0 Spell Power heal with purification and Imp CH of 1492 + (1492*0.5) + (1492*0.5*0.5) + (1492*0.5*0.5*0,5) = 2797

Adding T7 gives a 1.05 modifier making 2937 healing for a difference of 140 healing.

To find out how much extra spell power gave us this extra healing we can use the following formula:

So, the 4pc T7 bonus gives the same amount of extra healing as an additional (current spellpower * 0.05) + 42 Spell Power

 

Daidalos

Doh! yeah thats what I get for not double checking my work but its also why I show each step so I when I multiply in turkey-coma/ pre-coffee state other people can see it :-) Fixed now

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

MatsT

In my opinion it's quite clear that the chest from Malygos heroic is the best option. It's the only major upgrade over tier 7.5 available. I think you'll find this is the case with pretty much any scale as long as you don't increase the value of hast with a lot.

 

Vuldunobetra

Flasks and Elixirs

The best choice, from a HEP perspective, is running with the SP flask. It's only slightly better than two elixirs. The two elixirs will give more mana regen.

Battle [Spellpower Elixir] 290 HEP
Guardian [Elixir of Mighty Thoughts] 315 HEP

[Flask of the Frost Wyrm] 625 HEP

 

grayrest

Rather minor point, but both elixirs are trainer recipes. Also, with mixology, those two options are:

Frost Wyrm = 162 SP
Spellpower Elixir = 77 SP
Mighty Thoughts = 61 int (it shows as 68 with the 10% bonus from talents)

 

Vuldunobetra

In Heroics, I've been using HW a bunch. Some times thats the only thing that will keep up the tank. So I tried out the HW glyph, since the CH isn't on my server yet. Overall, I felt it was a decent glyph. It is worthwhile outside of raids. My recount numbers:

Recount: Effective Healing
1. Healing Wave 90 580555 (22%)
2. Chain Heal 185 560341 (21%)
3. Riptide 397 525052 (20%)
4. Earth Shield 276 428747 (16%)
5. Lesser Healing Wave 84 295105 (11%)
6. Earthliving 243 119196 (4%)
7. Ancestral Awakening 74 117275 (4%)
8. Glyph of Healing Wave 28 40839 (2%)

Recount: Overhealing
1. Chain Heal 81 197797 (32%)
2. Healing Wave 43 132652 (21%)
3. Lesser Healing Wave 47 125844
4. Glyph of Healing Wave 61 96923 (16%)
5. Riptide 39 28963 (5%)
6. Earth Shield 29 20651 (3%)
7. Ancestral Awakening 15 13123 (2%)
8. Earthliving 12 3123 (1%)

 

• Philondra

I'm looking at your numbers, and they don't appear to speak in favor of the HW glyph at all. Glyph of Healing Wave did by far the least effective healing out of your 8 sources, by nearly a factor of three, and was smack in the middle of the pack for raw overhealing. If we instead look at the percentage overheal per ability, and organize from most efficient to least efficient, we get:

1. Earthliving (119196/122319) = 97.4%
2. Earth Shield (428747/449398) = 95.4%
3. Riptide (525052/554015) = 94.8%
4. Ancestral Awakening (117275/130398) = 89.9%
5. Healing Wave (580555/713207) = 81.4%
6. Chain Heal (560341/758138) = 73.9%
7. Lesser Healing Wave (295105/420949 ) = 70.1%
8. Glyph of Healing Wave (40839/137762) = 29.6%

So not only did Glyph of Healing Wave do the least effective healing, it only barely beat ancestral awakening for total raw healing numbers, and was more than 70% overheal. I suspect that the numbers are greatly affected by group composition and which heroic(s) you were doing. Do you remember any of this information?

I have been doing a lot of heroics over the past week (we cleared all heroics both days this weekend), and I adopted a completely different strategy to the one you used. I glyphed Chain Heal, Water Mastery, and Lesser Healing Wave, and used Lesser Healing Wave as my main heal for the tank. With just over 2000 +healing after ELW and FT Totem, LHW heals the tank for just under 5k, and crits for around 7-7.5k health. Unfortunately, I didn't save my recount numbers, but LHW made up anywhere from 35-50% of my effective healing, although the times we ran with 3 melee, Chain Heal was around 20% as well. I'll try to remember to save my numbers this evening.

One interesting side effect of the LHW glyph is that it helps ensure that your earth shield is up on the tank at nearly all times.

EDIT: Also, Glyph of Healing Wave doesn't really help keep up the tank at all, unless you are taking damage that would otherwise cause you to stop healing him to keep yourself alive in a time of crisis. Healing Wave is obviously your big gun for those times when you need a guaranteed 7-8k heal, but it will heal the tank for the same amount unglyphed.

 

grayrest

If you're around 2k SP and looking for a third glyph, Healing Stream is surprisingly good. I use the totem on:
* Nexus - Mage chick + last dragon
* HoS - Brann Event
* AzN - Anub's aoe and adds swapping with Poison Cleansing for the venomancers

I use it elsewhere but basically any time the entire group is taking light damage, it'll more or less completely cover it. It's also useful on fights like Loken and Meathook where it won't cover all the damage, but it provides a nice buffer and it's not like the fights are long enough for people to be relying on mana spring.