I would like to update an earlier conversation I pursued on this thread. Bink's most recent SEIC sheets are helpful in seeing how DEP values change dynamically. At lower crit and haste levels, and also with increased latency, both crit and haste scale up in EP importance dramatically. The scaling is enough to show that it is NOT worthwhile to retain T6 4pc bonus once you have a couple of pieces of T7.25.

I think the biggest problem is the incredible bad performance in 25er raids. In Og at the dummy i'm able to do 3,6-3,7k dps... in Naxx 25 at patchwerk with the same gear i only did 3,9k...
Its just beacause of our short cast time in combination with bad performance and lags... theoretically I should be able to do 4,5-4,8k dps.. i nearly did this sometimes in 10er naxx with less limitation (latency and bad performance).

The changes with 3.0.8 are also very nice, and should lift up our theoretically dps by nearly 25%... but the lags will still remain... until this isn't fixed we won't perform very well in 25er inis.
(In 10er inis, with all caster supports I'm very close to 4,5k dps, when i try it)

Fine, so based on a 4 minute fight with pretty tight rotations but .2s latency and incorporating Bloodlust and Elemental Mastery I wound up with the following:

Haste 16%, Crit 25% -> ~ 160 DPS

Haste 20%, Crit 30% ~ 180 DPS

Those numbers are imperfect (probability is involved) but should be close. If you're trying to fine-tune it for reality, capture a combat log, but the takeaway should be that the top epics are superior, but it's perfectly good to take to a raid in the meantime.

That's assuming the trink takes its crit from our untalented crit%. If in fact it's affected by our 10% of additional talented crit, the charge damage would increase - hiking the trinket's DPS by maybe 5% - same conclusion though.

Where multiple chain lightning targets are in play it would be more valuable.

Can you post some "close to 4.5k dps" WWS logs please?

Hmm I had some with 4,4 and 4,3..but they were deleted (have no upgraded wws account )

Wow Web Stats

Here is one with 4,1.. without mage debuff.. and i didn't perform very well (one lavaburst didn't crit etc..). But i didn't try to beat my dps record this try...a friend of mine simply upload every naxxrun..^^
But I'll try to upload the data of some better fights soon.


Edit:

I initiated a Dps-test with a few friend at the dummys in Og... here is the result:

Wow Web Stats

I think its nearly the same as patchwerk (the only difference is, that berserking only gave me 10% haste instead of 30%, when i jump into the slime before patchwerk^^)

Your second WWS log is 1 minute faster than your first which would obviously inflate your DPS on it somewhat. Since the time frame is shorter, your time under Bloodlust is reflected more.

I have been able to get close to 4.2 myself, but not near what you are suggesting on a fight over 3 minutes.

I think this is spot on.
With my 400ms ping and 7fps in 25 mans, I can really feel it hurting my dps. Being the only class that needs to cast every 1.2 - 1.6 seconds and probably 50-200ms of lag between each cast it causes lag to cut into our dps more than any other class.

I think this is where blizzard goes wrong with there internal testing for elemental, the testers probably have 2ms pings on beasts of machines that run 200fps.


Edit: Ghando
Try and get [Mark of the War Prisoner] to tide you over. At least VH is easy to get your buddys to come to every day, but if your like me every day you get to see some mail haste gauntlets.

We stopped the test because we all ran oom without any mana support^^
But I did nearly that dps over 3 minutes...in nearly every naxx raid(10men), in 25men naxx its too laggy atm..

Finally dropped this morning. 700g in gems later (had to completely overhaul) I feel better about my set-up, but I'm still short of 2k spellpower with Flametongue.

Here is a 4731 DPS log, the best I've seen to date.
Changbin
http://wowwebstats.com/xizxg4o6h1isk?s=185421-216015

Insane gearing, but a longer fight for such a high DPS(2'53).

he critted way too much^^
Lightningbolt ~64% crit ( compared with his gear c.a. 14% too much)
Chainlightning ~76%crit (26% too much)
Flameshock ~56% crit ( 13% too much)


hmm you can reach this dps.. but need damn much luck... i wish i were so lucky xD

WOW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King! - improvement, missed a few lava bursts need to get my rotation down tight. Saw a max dps of 3100 tonight. Much better, along with a new shield.

You guys are putting me to shame. When are you timing your trinkets / EM to maximize their usage?
Seriously I feel like I'm mashing and prioritizing like mad and my damage can barely scrape 2k on my own (3k in raids), might be gear but I'd like to find if maybe I'm doing something wrong like using LB instead of CL when there isn't much of a cooldown left on LvB or something. Is there a way to see a cast by cast combat log for the fights in WWS instead of every tiny thing like mana totem ticks and aura ticks?

Wow Web Stats (Though this is nearly 5AM without my handy dandy shadow priest or boomkin)

I have similar gear but his average lightning bolts are hitting for nearly 500 more than mine. Really looks like a PTR log for me.

I don't think it is, the BM hunter gets TBW three times in a fight lasting less than 3 minutes, that would require readiness to be effecting bestial wrath.

I just don't quite understand how it's possible to crit 64% of the time on lightning bolt.

I'm usually right around 50% constantly

Can anyone tell me what benchmark numbers are at the moment with full Naxx/T7.
Basically what's the magic number for spellpower before haste should be stacked with flametongue. I'm at around 2010 27% crit hit capped 470 haste. I'm trying to decide if I need to try to stack 100-200 more SP at the sacrificing of other stats.
I remember way back when in the Sunwell days we shot for 1200 SP before going nuts on haste. Maintaining a certain crit % and that sort of thing.
It's driving me crazy that I've been DPS capped on Patchwerk to around 3300-3400 DPS and I can't figure out what else I can do.

On every individual boss? I really doubt it, sorry.

On our last Naxx clear my LB crit rate during boss kills ranged between 35% - 58% (ignoring Loatheb). Its just the RNG at work. If you looked at some WWS of your fights I imagine you would see something similar.

Personally I have never understood the concepts of "sweet spots" and "magic numbers" in relation to Ele. Stats do change in priority to each other, and to be fair there is a definite sweet spot for crit after which diminishing returns apply to clearcasting. It was also true that to get the most of Haste in TBC you needed a good amount of spellpower. However, giving a set number to aim for is essentially just making a huge simplification, to get around theorycrafting the potential benefits of items.

For what its worth anyway, the way to go in WotLK seems to be stack spellpower, and then... stack more spellpower. I don't think haste will ever over take spellpower point-for-point given current Ele mechanics.

It's a liferealm wws-log.... he has nearly 2200spellpower (with Ft) ... thats 50 more than me and my Lb-averagedmg is 3160-3200...
And when you look at the maxcrits you'll see that they should be much higher on Ptr, Lvb around 14k and Lb around 10k (he has dying curse and the sundial)

the only difference is, that he critted way too much. But wayne.. its Random^^

You must not have mages in your raids, then?

Assuming 30% crit before any buffs or debuffs (fairly realistic) you get 5% from oath, 3% from totem and 10% from mages, making that 48%, and I may have forgotten something.

I don't entirely get your point.

I was simply trying to illustrate how much your actual crit rate can vary between fights, even when gear and buffs don't change i.e. in one night the amount I crit can vary by 20%+ from one boss to another.

(For what its worth, most Ele shamans are a little short of 30% crit unbuffed, and yes I do raid with mages... but thats entirely immaterial to the point I was making.)