[Enhancement] Trinket Discussion - Page 4

Rouncer · 01/09/09, 6:23 PM

Originally Posted by Ouktaar

Thanks, Rouncer, but some of you math is still off...Do the calculation on Grim Toll for instance.
83*3.4 + 0.75*612/5 is not equal to 405.
Not to mention, your EP for ArP was 1.00, but you left in the .075 varible from the OP.

For trinkets like Grim Toll and Mark of Norgannon, I tend not to look at the "before cap" and "after cap" calculations. Instead, I rank them by opportunity cost. Both caps are attainable well before you have all BiS simply with gems/elixirs/foods. If I wasn't using those consumables to cap hit and exp, I would most likely use them for straight AP. Instead of 40 hit food, I would use 80 AP. Instead of 16 hit gems, I would use 32 AP. Therefore, the Grim Toll allows me to pick up an extra 166 AP through gems/elixirs/food, so I would rate the 83 static hit on the trinket as 166 EP.

His value for ArP was 0.75 my value for ArP was 1 the only error was that when I copied the formulas I forgot to replace the 0.75 from his post with 1 but the end result was correct.

As for how to rank things, you are welcome to rank them however you want. All my gem slots are used for expertise in my current gear. Where do you propose I find the 84 hit rating then? Also why would you use 80AP food when you could use feast/clam chowder for 60 AP + 35 spellpower considering spellpower is worth over 1AP based on my values. Elixirs? are you being serious? What elixir combination compares to endless rage? 45 Hit and 45 Int? So based on your values that's 135 AP in value which doesn't come close to the flask.

So now I have no gem slots because they are filled with expertise gems and I am using a Flask because I am not dumb and I am using Clam Chowder because it's my best dps food....but I am way under the hit cap if I use another trinket which means I am getting full benefit from the 84 hit rating so it is worth what I posted to me. You are welcome to value things however you want to, you will be wrong but you are welcome to do so.

If you can get over the spell hit cap by X amount when using that trinket you take the portion of X that you are over it by and that gets multiplied by the above cap value for hit and then you have the trinket's value for you.

Originally Posted by Protico

I am not sure exactly why my numbers are so far from yours, but I am using a pretty cookie-cutter buff build and Slow/Slow weapon set up, yet my numbers for [Grim Toll] are vastly different than yours. I sim ArP at 1.88 (compared to your .75) and hit at 1.59 (close to your 1.67) which places Grim Toll much higher on the chart than it is currently, above FotFF and close to Greatness (ahead if Agi sims as low as it seems to for you, my Agi is 1.82 so Greatness still has a decent edge).

Any chance you could paste the config which gives ArP a .75 (or it looks like 1 in most recent post) EP?

[e] I am concerned with after cap numbers, in case that wasn't clear.

I would bet money that your Armor value for the bosses is still set to the level 70 value. Make sure that it is set to 13083 and make sure that your values for both of the raid buff armor penetration values are correct. Check that first and if you still have an issue I'll be happy to look over your config.

Armor debuff major should be set to 3925 and Armor debuff minor should be set to 1260.

As for the cap values, you are probably at the spell hit cap already which is why you are getting such a low value for +hit rating. Try running it with a negative EP value and you will get the real value for hit rating and then you can run it again with a positive EP when set up with buffs so that it is at the spell hit cap to determine the value for hit when over the spell hit cap.

Ouktaar · 01/09/09, 8:42 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

So now I have no gem slots because they are filled with expertise gems and I am using a Flask because I am not dumb and I am using Clam Chowder because it's my best dps food....but I am way under the hit cap if I use another trinket which means I am getting full benefit from the 84 hit rating so it is worth what I posted to me. You are welcome to value things however you want to, you will be wrong but you are welcome to do so.

If you can get over the spell hit cap by X amount when using that trinket you take the portion of X that you are over it by and that gets multiplied by the above cap value for hit and then you have the trinket's value for you.

I am currently hit capped using almost all my gem slots for hit. I use Mirror of Truth and Darkmoon Card Greatness.

You suggest that Grim Toll has a value of 207 EP since it would all be over the spell hit cap. You say that I am wrong if I value it otherwise. Thus, equipping Grim Toll rather than Mirror of truth would result in a net loss of 319 - 207 = 112 EP

My way of placing the value of that 83 hit at 166 EP suggests a value of 166 + 1*612/5 = 288.4 EP for Grim Toll. A net loss of 30.6 EP when swapping it in for the Mirror.

If I were to replace Mirror of Truth with Grim Toll, I would not be dumb and leave all my Hit gems socketed. I would get rid of 5 gems (80 hit) and replace them with 32 AP gems for a total of 160 AP.

Net changes using your EP numbers:
+3 hit over cap (+5.01 EP)
+160 AP (+160 EP)
+612 ArP proc (1*612/5 = +122.4 EP)
-84 Crit (-152.04 EP)
-1000 AP proc (1000/6 = -166.67 EP)
--------------
-31.3 EP is the net change from using Grim Toll rather than Mirror of Truth.
If Mirror of Truth is 319 EP, then Grim Toll is worth 287.7 EP for me. My approximation of 83 Hit being equal to 166 EP was not all that far off for purposes of rating this trinket

Moving along, a hypothetical situation in which I am using those inferior Foods and Elixirs to achieve hit cap rather than gems.

I am hit capped with the +45 hit elixir (also using +45 int) and the +40 hit food. I am using Darkmoon Card Greatness and Mirror of Truth.

Swapping the Mirror out for Grim Toll allows the use of Chowder and AP flask.

Net changes:
-2 Hit under cap (-6.8 EP)
-45 int (-63 EP)
-84 Crit (-152.04 EP)
-1000 AP proc (-166.67 EP)
+612 ArP proc (+122.4 EP)
+60 AP/35 SP food (+103.5 EP)
+180 AP flask (+180 EP)
---------------------
+17.39 EP
So if Mirror of Truth is 319 EP, Grim Toll is 336.39.

TL;DR:
Grim Toll should not be valued as high as it's full "before cap" value unless your gear is so terrible that you can't hit cap even with full gems/enchants/consumables.
Grim Toll should not be valued as low as it "after cap" value unless your gear is so extraordinary that all 83 hit will be over the cap even without any hit gems/enchants/consumables.
It's value must be determined based on your own gear's opportunity cost. What do you gain? What do you lose?
Placing the value of that 83 static hit at 166 EP is a quick way of getting a semi accurate value of the trinket. Much like if someone asked you for definitive EP values for all stats, you would tell them that they have to sim it for themselves. But nonetheless, there are "quickie" EP values available in the TTT that are just an approximation.

Finally, you still have this for the After Cap value of Grim Toll:
83*1.67 + 1*612/5 = 207.1

I keep coming up with 261.01 for that equation.

I don't mean to nitpick or argue with you. Your posts all over this forum have made my DPS a lot higher than it would be otherwise

Protico · 01/09/09, 9:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rounced

I would bet money that your Armor value for the bosses is still set to the level 70 value. Make sure that it is set to 13083 and make sure that your values for both of the raid buff armor penetration values are correct. Check that first and if you still have an issue I'll be happy to look over your config.

Armor debuff major should be set to 3925 and Armor debuff minor should be set to 1260.

As for the cap values, you are probably at the spell hit cap already which is why you are getting such a low value for +hit rating. Try running it with a negative EP value and you will get the real value for hit rating and then you can run it again with a positive EP when set up with buffs so that it is at the spell hit cap to determine the value for hit when over the spell hit cap.

Naw, I am using the 13083 boss armor. I run with sunder but not with faerie fire simply because I don't have a feral druid with me most of the time, this might account for a small part of the discrepancy, but certainly not the full .9ep difference. Here is the config I ran to get my most recent EP values:

simulation_time                 10000
simulation_time_combatlog       30
combat_length                   4
report_count                    80
threads                         2
min_lag                         0
max_lag                         0
simulate_mana                   1

ep_precision                    2
ep_base_stat                    ap
ep_ap                           200
ep_crit_rating                  30
ep_hit_rating                   30
ep_expertise                    4
ep_haste_rating                 30
ep_armor_penetration_rating     30
ep_spellpower                   150
ep_dps                          7.5
ep_mana                         250
ep_spirit                       150
ep_mp5                          20

mh_auto_attack                  1
oh_auto_attack                  1
wait_ss_with_wf_cd              0.00
cast_ll_only_if_wf_on_cd        0
bloodlust_casters               1
sync_bloodlust_with_trinkets    1
cast_lvb_only_if_ed_left        15.0
cast_lvb_only_if_fsdots_left    4
cast_lvb_only_if_fs_active      0
cast_fs_only_if_dots_left       0
cast_ls_only_if_charges_left    0
cast_sr_only_if_mana_left       750
use_mana_potion_if_mana_left    3000

rotation_priority_count         7
rotation_priority1              MW5_LB
rotation_priority2              SS
rotation_priority3              ES
rotation_priority4              LL
rotation_priority5              LS
rotation_priority6              ST
rotation_priority7              SR

miss                            9.0
dodge                           6.5
glancing                        25.0
armor                           13083
spell_miss                      17.0
nature_resistance               0
fire_resistance                 0
frost_resistance                0
arcane_resistance               0
shadow_resistance               0

armor_debuff_major              3925/3925
armor_debuff_minor              0/1260
physical_vulnerability_debuff   2.0/2.0
melee_haste_buff                20.0/20.0
melee_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
attack_power_buff_flat          688/688
attack_power_buff_multiplier    0/99.7
spell_haste_buff                5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_buff          5.0/5.0
spell_crit_chance_debuff        10.0/10.0
spell_damage_debuff             10.0/10.0
spellpower_buff                 280/280
spell_hit_chance_debuff         3.0/3.0
haste_buff                      0/3.0
percentage_damage_increase      3.0/3.0
crit_chance_debuff              3.0/3.0
stat_multiplier                 10.0/10.0
stat_add_buff                   52/52
agi_and_strength_buff           178/178
intellect_buff                  60/60

replenishment                   1
water_shield                    0
mana_spring_totem               1
blessing_of_wisdom              1
judgement_of_wisdom             1

flask_elixir                    flask_of_relentless_assault
guardian_elixir                 -
potion                          -
food                            dalaran_clam_chowder
misc_item                       -

###############################################################################
### Everything in the section below can be replaced by information obtained ###
### from your paper doll stats or exported by the ShockAndAwe addon         ###
###############################################################################

race                            draenei
mh_speed                        2.6
oh_speed                        2.5
mh_dps                          171.4
oh_dps                          156.6
mh_crit                         30.05
oh_crit                         30.05
mh_hit                          12.14
oh_hit                          12.14
mh_expertise_rating             219
oh_expertise_rating             219
ap                              3705
haste                           3.57
armor_penetration               0
str                             129
agi                             806
int                             437
spi                             153
spellpower                      1111
spell_crit                      22.28
spell_hit                       15.17
max_mana                        10671
mp5                             0

mh_imbue                        windfury
oh_imbue                        flametongue

mh_enchant                      mongoose
oh_enchant                      mongoose

mh_weapon                       -
oh_weapon                       -

trinket1                        grim_toll
trinket2                        mirror_of_truth

totem                           stonebreakers_totem

set_bonus                       naxx_melee_2

metagem                         relentless_earthsiege_diamond

glyph_major1                    windfury_weapon
glyph_major2                    flametongue_weapon
glyph_major3                    stormstrike

glyph_minor1                    -
glyph_minor2                    -
glyph_minor3                    -

ancestral_knowledge             5/5
improved_shields                2/3
mental_dexterity                3/3
shamanistic_focus               1/1
flurry                          5/5
elemental_weapons               3/3
unleashed_rage                  5/5
weapon_mastery                  3/3
dual_wield_specialization       3/3
mental_quickness                3/3
improved_stormstrike            2/2
static_shock                    3/3
maelstrom_weapon                5/5

convection                      0/5
concussion                      5/5
call_of_flame                   2/3
elemental_devastation           3/3
reverberation                   0/5
elemental_focus                 1/1
elemental_fury                  0/5
call_of_thunder                 0/1
unrelenting_storm               0/5
elemental_precision             0/3
lightning_mastery               0/5
elemental_oath                  0/2
lightning_overload              0/5
lava_flows                      0/3
storm_earth_and_fire            0/5

And here are results.

Spell hit + EP range goes past cap by 3.31364% (86.9234 hit rating).
Expertise is past cap, EP expertise test will be skipped.

Calculating EP values...
Calculation 2/14: Attack power calculated.
Calculation 1/14: Baseline DPS calculated.
Calculation 3/14: Crit(physical) calculated.
Calculation 4/14: Crit(spell) calculated.
Calculation 6/14: Expertise skipped.
Calculation 5/14: Hit calculated.
Calculation 7/14: Haste calculated.
Calculation 8/14: Armor Penetration calculated.
Calculation 10/14: Mh Dps calculated.
Calculation 9/14: Spellpower calculated.
Calculation 11/14: Oh Dps calculated.
Calculation 12/14: Mana calculated.
Calculation 13/14: Spirit calculated.
Calculation 14/14: Mp5 calculated.


EP                        value     DPS       total DPS      difference

baseline                                      5455.34
ap                        1.00      0.60      5574.94        119.60
crit rating               1.58      0.94      5483.65        28.30
hit rating                1.59      0.95      5483.89        28.55
expertise rating          0.00      0.00      0.00           -5455.34
haste rating              1.47      0.88      5481.65        26.31
armor penetration rating  1.88      1.13      5489.13        33.79
spellpower                0.90      0.54      5535.88        80.54
mh dps                    6.05      3.62      5482.47        27.13
oh dps                    2.62      1.57      5467.11        11.76
strength                  1.10      
agility                   1.82      
intelligence              1.28      
spirit                    -0.01     -0.01     5454.56        -0.78
mana                      -0.00     -0.00     5454.88        -0.47
mp5                       0.12      0.07      5456.83        1.48

( Pawn: v1: "EnhSim": Ap=1.00, CritRating=1.58, HitRating=1.59, HasteRating=1.47, ExpertiseRating=0.00, ArmorPenetration=1.88, SpellDamage=0.90, MainHandDps=6.05, OffHandDps=2.62, Strength=1.10, Agility=1.82, Intellect=1.28, Spirit=-0.01, Mana=-0.00, Mp5=0.12 )
http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=64&Str=1.10&mh=1.47&dps=6.05&mp5=0.12&mcr=1.58&odps=2.62&spd=0.90&Agi=1.82&mhit=1.59&Int=1.28&Spi=-0.01&map=1.00&arp=1.88&Exp=0.00

elapsed simulation time: 130000.00h
elapsed real time: 324.53s
simulation speed: 1442081x

Rouncer · 01/10/09, 3:18 AM

Originally Posted by Ouktaar

I don't mean to nitpick or argue with you. Your posts all over this forum have made my DPS a lot higher than it would be otherwise

I'm glad I could help.

By the way, I swapped your mirror for a Grim Toll and then changed the hit gems in your gloves and pants to expertise and the enchant on your gloves and bracers to AP and then swapped the +exp food for dalaran clam chowder and it simmed out as 15dps more then your current gear set.

Would probably gain even more by swapping that weapon chain for mongoose or zerker and then regemming some other things but I think I proved my point.

If the Grim Toll wasn't worth it's true +hit value then explain to me how swapping in a "weaker" trinket then the mirror gained you 15 dps?

Sure I had to regem and enchant to take advantage of it but that is the concept of a below cap value and an above cap value.

(e) actually that build was 0.45hit over the spell hit cap. So swapping the +8hit/stam gem in your helm for a +8exp/stam gem puts you right at the spell hit cap and the exp cap. Total dps gained 27.91.

Ouktaar · 01/10/09, 6:32 AM

Originally Posted by Rounced

Would probably gain even more by swapping that weapon chain for mongoose or zerker and then regemming some other things but I think I proved my point.

If the Grim Toll wasn't worth it's true +hit value then explain to me how swapping in a "weaker" trinket then the mirror gained you 15 dps?

I have a Sinister Revenge with goose, but recently swapped it and some other equipment to test out the mace for PvE (just comparing sim results to real results) and PvP.

But, point taken...

Horac · 02/20/09, 6:27 PM

Has anyone gone back and done any simming with the Thunder Capacitor or Lightning Capacitor trinkets under the emerging "flame knives" or whatever its being called dual Flametongue setups?

If you can get the Thunder Capacitor trinket to fire every cooldown it works out to 510 dps and that is without factoring in that the thing can crit.

5 minute fight (300 seconds)
2.5 second cooldown.
TTC > (((1371+1181)/2)*(300/2.5))/300 = 510.4 DPS (no Crit factoring and doesn't account for boss debuffs).
TLC > (((694+806)/2)*(300/2.5))/300 = 300 DPS (no Crit factoring and doesn't account for boss debuffs).

It is unrealistic to think that you will full stack these trinkets inside the cooldown every time but its an eye opening exercise to consider what the max dps could be for them. With the "flame knives" build going for haste and the high raid buffed crit it could be an interesting mix.

The Lightning capacitor has always proc'd off of flametongue. Of course that doesn't mean it's not a bug. Still, it might be fun to play around with till they figured it out and hot fixed the trinkets. Not like either trinket is all that hard to get (I have both in my bank still).

Electrofreak · 02/20/09, 10:54 PM

I'm sort of suprised nobody has considered Anvil of Titans

Obviously the Resilience is of no use to heroics/raid, but the proc is the same as that of Mirror Of Truth, making it good for 167 EP. Definitely still a lower-end trinket, but I think worth mentioning, especially since AoT procs off of any melee or ranged hit, and not just crits like MoT.

I think I read somewhere that AoT does not share a cooldown with MoT, but that both procs cannot occur at the same time. I would be interested to see how often the 1000 AP for 10 seconds proc would be up with both trinkets equipped. Both are purchaseable trinkets and thus useful to early raid/heroic players.

Horac · 02/21/09, 12:33 AM

Originally posted this italics comment.
I pulled up the sim to do some testing but it looks like neither of the Capacitor trinkets are currently modeled. Guess I will have to play around with the target dummies if I want some data.

I will have to see if I can put together a setup to do some testing. I will post my findings if I manage to get a good test setup for these things.

I actually found in the change log that the Thunder Capacitor is supported, it just wasn't listed in the sample config file. I normally run KT's Reach with Angry dread as my main hand/off hand combo. I did some testing with the sim. No in game testing has been done, this is all sim results so far. I ran 4 tests, here are the results. Again, this is only prelim testing. My normal trinkets are Grim Troll and Mirror of Truth. For this experiment on any sim runs where I swap in the Thunder capacitor it is the Mirror that I swap out.

WF/FT KTR/AD w/o TC 4721.59
WF/FT KTR/AD w TC 4771.49

Interesting, just swapping in the trinket results in about 50dps increase. Now lets see what happens if I change to FT/FT

FT/FT KTR/AD w/o TC 4550.39
FT/FT KTR/AD w TC 4671.69

As you can see, FT/FT with these weapons is a downgrade in my DPS. What is noteworthy is that the Thunder capacitor results in a much higher DPS increase with a FT/FT setup. Here droppping the mirror of truth and adding in the Thunder Capacitor results in about a 120 DPS increase.

I managed to pick up the Wrath Strike from Maexxna this week. I ran 2 more tests swapping wrath strike in for KT's Reach and using FT/FT on my weapons.

FT/FT WS/AD w/o TC 4706.96
FT/FT WS/AD w TC 4827.11

Interesting to note here that just swapping Wrath Strike in and using FT/FT pulls within 20 DPS of my best dps sim using WF/FT with KTR/AD. When I swap in the Thunder Capacitor for the Mirror of Truth the setup Jumps ahead of even my best WF/FT parse by about 100 DPS.

The sim results are interesting though I don't think they are conclusive. I used 1,000 hour sims and I am not sure what bumping the sim runtime to 10,000 hours might do to the results. I have decided that I will definately swap out the Thunder Capacitor this next Naxx reset and do some live testing on bosses. If my sim is correct then I should not see any dps decrese and may see upwards of a 50 DPS increase in damage.

I am still debating on whether I am going to dig up the money to buy a berserking enchant for the Wrath strike and do some FT/FT testing using WS/AD and Thunder Capacitor. According to the sim it has the potential of a decent dps increase.

roknir · 02/28/09, 8:58 PM

Didn't mean to post this. Feel free to delete admins.

slant · 03/02/09, 2:02 PM

Keep in mind that both fast/fast FT/FT and the thunder capacitor are being nerfed in 3.1 before spending large amounts of money on enchants. Also wraith strike is far too slow to be optimal for FT/FT anyway. Of course 3.1 is at least a month or two away, if not more.

Mengus · 03/20/09, 9:27 PM

Formula for Mirror of truth in the spreadsheet has been:

(84 * Crit) + 1000/6

Going through WWS from various sources, the uptime % seems to vary around 16-18%, and I'm wondering if the formula is still accurate. Possibly due to a similar 45s cooldown mechanic as is found in the Darkmoon card?

Curious if others have noticed this, and if the formula should be updated.

Dragon-CR · 03/20/09, 10:07 PM

The actual ICD of Mirror seems to be an odd 50sec, I've never seen a proc less than 50sec and I've been tracking with proculas for over a month now. Even if I clear proculas data within a few hours of play it will find that 50sec low but never lower even after weeks. However the proc chance seems to be ~10% on crit, not hit, so it averages out to about 1ppm. FYI 10 seconds of uptime every 60 seconds is 16.67% uptime so the numbers it's showing is about right for 1000/6.

Farosarg · 03/25/09, 3:52 AM

Just to point out to anyone copying the spreadsheet in the original post. Exel formulae in it were incorrect atleast for me when I translated it for my open office exel. For example Grim Toll formula was asking for crit value instead of hit and Mirror of Truth was asking the opposite.

Posting my results in case someone finds them usefull.

Using my own EP values:
Agi=1,68
ArP=1,2
Crit=1,69
Exp=2
Haste=1,25
Hit=2,6

Grim Toll was first choice with 362,68EP
Greatness 319,2EP
FotFF 310EP
Mirror of Truth 308,63EP

However I've become fond of Bandits Insignia during my raids. Extra proc providing me with almost 3% of my total dps. I'm wondering how big dps increase Greatness truly is compared to that.

Also with ArP and haste recieving buffs in 3.1 I'm going to assume Grim Toll getting even bigger lead even with over the cap values. Ofcourse Ulduar will be providing something more valuable soon.

Mengus · 03/26/09, 5:17 AM

The link posted in the first thread post comes off the TTT post... so if there's a more recent version of the spreadsheet floating around, can someone provide a link for both this thread as well as the TTT thread?

Teeza · 03/27/09, 6:29 AM

An observation on Bandits Insignia.

Everyone seems pretty happy with 190 + 1.3(30% crit chance) * (1504+2256)/2 /50 * 2 = 287.76 ~= 290 EP.
In raids I tend to crit 43-44% of the time, buffs, procs. And Bandits Insignia can crit too, on my last Naxx run around 40% of the time, but I was probably a bit lucky. 35% with a oomkin is probably more accurate.

The above value then changes to 190 + 1.43 * ((1504+2256)*1.35)/2 /50 * 2 = 335.

Unless I am doing something silly, that makes this a much more competitive trinket.

MatsT · 03/27/09, 1:21 PM

The entire list in the original post is based on very flawed EP values. It's not really meant to be used as it is, you would use your own stats and EP values to calculate the real values for you. Unfortunately the spreadsheet linked is broken, very few of the formulas actually works, so you would have to update it yourself.

Teeza · 03/27/09, 7:38 PM

No one had pointed out that Bandits may outperform MoT and DMCG. But it conceivably can, so just thought I'd point it out. Personally my trinket decisions are made. That was hopefully just for someone elses benefit.

Pitbuller · 03/27/09, 9:46 PM

Originally Posted by Teeza

An observation on Bandits Insignia.

Everyone seems pretty happy with 190 + 1.3(30% crit chance) * (1504+2256)/2 /50 * 2 = 287.76 ~= 290 EP.
In raids I tend to crit 43-44% of the time, buffs, procs. And Bandits Insignia can crit too, on my last Naxx run around 40% of the time, but I was probably a bit lucky. 35% with a oomkin is probably more accurate.

The above value then changes to 190 + 1.43 * ((1504+2256)*1.35)/2 /50 * 2 = 335.

Unless I am doing something silly, that makes this a much more competitive trinket.

That formula don't make any sense. You calculate crit twice?

Avarage proc hit (1504+2256) / 2 = 1880. Avarage proc with crits is then 1880 * 1.35 = 2538
If you calculate CoE then it's 2868 damage per avarage proc then If you get one proc per 50 second proc yield 57dps.
Trinket is 190ap + 57dps = 304ep.

Utters · 03/28/09, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mengus

The link posted in the first thread post comes off the TTT post... so if there's a more recent version of the spreadsheet floating around, can someone provide a link for both this thread as well as the TTT thread?

So sorry guys that the spread sheet has been botched for you all for so long. I thought the link everyone had went to this copy but it seems you all had a copy that I had goofed up one night. But that copy should work if you need it. And as we get more formulas for the Ulduar trinkets just PM them to me and I will add them in.

Quaglia · 04/01/09, 8:00 PM

As of 2nd of April, in the Utters' spreadsheet the first part of the formula for the
[Mark of Norgannon] is wrong: it points to the EP weight for Crit Rating =(69*B2)+((491*B7)/6)
while it should point to Ep weight for Expertise =(69*B4)+((491*B7)/6)

Utters · 04/01/09, 9:38 PM

Originally Posted by Quaglia

As of 2nd of April, in the Utters' spreadsheet the first part of the formula for the
[Mark of Norgannon] is wrong: it points to the EP weight for Crit Rating =(69*B2)+((491*B7)/6)
while it should point to Ep weight for Expertise =(69*B4)+((491*B7)/6)

Thanks for the heads up, and it has been fixed.

Edit: No Malan, the TTT seems to be correct at this time.

Malan · 04/01/09, 11:24 PM

Does the article link need to be updated again? Can you verify its pointing to the correct revision?

Axekilla · 04/09/09, 1:19 PM

Has anyone done any testing on Wrathstone and Pyrite Infuser, and whether [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] gets replaced?

Haalun · 04/10/09, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by Axekilla

Has anyone done any testing on Wrathstone and Pyrite Infuser, and whether [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] gets replaced?

If you have enough current best-in-slot items(*), I would expect the Darkmoon Card is already replaced by [Mirror of Truth] and [Grim Toll]. Many of our best offset items lack hit, which makes it hard to be hit and expertise capped without Grim Toll. And enhsim has always showed me more DPS for Mirror of Truth than for Darkmoon Card: Greatness as the second trinket with my gear, with both double FT and conventional WF/FT setups.

The Wrathstone and Pyrite Infuser look like pretty direct upgrades to Toll and Mirror (perhaps depending on the proc/use effect cooldowns).

* - I realize best-in-slot for Enhancement is very relative to your other gear, but the 223/226 items that are good for us mostly lack hit.

Rouncer · 04/10/09, 3:50 AM

Originally Posted by Haalun

* - I realize best-in-slot for Enhancement is very relative to your other gear, but the 223/226 items that are good for us mostly lack hit.

[Frosted Adroit Handguards]