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04/26/09, 2:37 PM
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#126
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Von Kaiser
Troll Shaman
Burning Blade
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I recently picked up a Elemental Focus Stone from 10m Ulduar off Auriaya. The tooltip is wrong it doesn not give 522 spell power instead it gives 522 haste rating for 10 sec. The 108 hit is a direct stat upgrade to the grim toll. After a bit of testing it seem the IC is 45secs, with a proc rate of 15%. My average proc came at 1m20sec because of the low proc rate and as a result it is a dps downgrade from the grim toll which truely makes me a sad panda.
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05/08/09, 5:58 PM
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#127
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Von Kaiser
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With no disrespect to anyone intended, especially Mengus, Utters or Yo!, I've made a trinket spreadsheet of my own in Excel format. My intention was to make something that would let the average Shaman plug in their EP values and current level of progression, and generate a list of the top 5 trinkets for them. I've added several of the new Ulduar trinkets but I'm staying away from the caster trinkets for now, including the Elemental Focus Stone. I'm going to assume that the Haste will be corrected to Spell Power in the near future.
Feedback and/or suggestions are welcome. The file is safe and doesn't contain any macros.
Free file hosting by Savefile.com
Disclaimer - I did take a few liberties and borrowed the EP calculation for the direct damage component of Bandit's Insignia from Yo!'s post in this thread. I tried to give him credit by including a link to the post. I used the same calculation to figure out the EP value of DMC: Death.
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05/08/09, 6:07 PM
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#128
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Struck by Diax's Rake
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Originally Posted by zomghax
I'm going to assume that the Haste will be corrected to Spell Power in the near future.
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Spell power is a useful stat for enhance dps, since half our damage is magic damage. For some people it actually comes out as higher EP than attack power.
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05/08/09, 6:16 PM
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#129
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by zomghax
I'm staying away from the caster trinkets for now, including the Elemental Focus Stone. I'm going to assume that the Haste will be corrected to Spell Power in the near future.
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There was a post for the "3.1.2 patch notes and changes" back on April 30th at MMO Champion:
"Elemental Focus Stone now gives Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your haste rating by 522 for 10 sec. (Old - 522 Spell Power)"
It looks like the tooltip is being changed to haste, rather than the proc changing to spell power.
Last edited by Ouktaar : 05/08/09 at 6:19 PM.
Reason: Grammar
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05/08/09, 6:42 PM
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#130
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Von Kaiser
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Thanks for the update, I've added the trinket and uploaded a new version. With the high numbers some people are seeing for Haste, it has the potential to be a very good trinket for us.
The only think I am not sure on is the uptime, since the proc is spell based and we are limited to Earth Shocks and MWLB's. As the above poster noted, he waited a long time between procs despite the 45 second ICD. I'm leaving it as 1 PPM for now, though that may be generous. I will wait for some more data before I change it.
Free file hosting by Savefile.com
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05/10/09, 9:55 AM
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#131
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Stormrage (EU)
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I'm having some rather large discrepancies when comparing numerical results of 2 specific thinkets from your spreadsheet zomghax, and results output from enhsim.
When I input my EP values into the spreadsheet i get the following ranking: Old God > Mjolnir > Pyrite > Wrathstone > DMC: Greatness. Nothing unusual jumps out at me when glancing at this list. I check the value of the mirror of truth (one of my current trinkets) and find that greatness is a slight upgrade (~10 EP). I then sim both trinkets in EnhSim to double check the results, and surprisingly greatness results in a huge dps loss (sims at 6181 vs. 6245 ie. a 64 dps loss).
My EP values are the averaged result of 5 x 10,000 hour EP calculations. The EP values used are as follows:
AP 1,00
Hit 1,67
Crit 1,91
Agility 1,78
ArP 1,45
Expertise 0,00
Haste 1,53
Any idea as to what might be causing this discrepancy?
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05/10/09, 11:26 AM
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#132
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Flannelfoot
Any idea as to what might be causing this discrepancy?
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Did you remember to change your paper doll stats based on the trinket change? The only thing that trinket selection in Enhsim does is control the proc that occurs during simulation. The change in "on equip" bonus need to be accounted for by actually logging into the game, changing trinkets and taking note of your new paper doll stats.
What is your other trinket?
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05/10/09, 12:10 PM
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#133
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Stormrage (EU)
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Yup, the paperdoll stats were also changed to reflect the fact that the mirror was being un-equipped and that DMC: Greatness was being equipped. That is what I find confusing about this matter since trinket performance shouldn't vary to that degree between the sim and the spreadsheet. My other trinket is the pyrite infuser.
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05/10/09, 12:19 PM
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#134
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Flannelfoot
Yup, the paperdoll stats were also changed to reflect the fact that the mirror was being un-equipped and that DMC: Greatness was being equipped. That is what I find confusing about this matter since trinket performance shouldn't vary to that degree between the sim and the spreadsheet. My other trinket is the pyrite infuser.
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The only thing that I can think of then is that there may be some serious synergy between the Infuser and the Mirror. It's confirmed that the 2 buffs stack, and they appear to share the same ICD, so it's theoretically possible that they would share a lot of up-time together.
As for the DMC, I've always found it to be slightly overrated and a high EP value for Crit puts the Mirror very close to it anyways. I would probably trust the sim in this case, and maybe go smack a training dummy around for awhile and see how often you get those 2 trinkets (Mirror and Infuser) to go off together.
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05/10/09, 12:24 PM
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#135
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Stormrage (EU)
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Alright, thanks for the feedback. Will go smack something and see how often both are up.
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05/10/09, 1:41 PM
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#136
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Von Kaiser
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For what it's worth, I ran the same test that you did and my my results were as follows:
6117.20 with DMC: Greatness (332.50 EP)
6121.40 with Mirror of Truth (327.95 EP)
So while I did have slightly better results with MoT despite the small EP difference, my sim results were no where near close to yours. 64 DPS is a pretty significant difference, which makes me think something else is the cause.
Last edited by zomghax : 05/10/09 at 2:02 PM.
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05/18/09, 6:49 PM
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#137
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Von Kaiser
Draenei Shaman
Theradras (EU)
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05/20/09, 1:03 PM
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#138
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Von Kaiser
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Spreadsheet updated.
Depending on your EP value for Crit, it could absolutely destroy the Blood of the Old God. Assuming a 45 second ICD and setting the Uptime at 10/50 until we have some more information on it.
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05/23/09, 8:00 AM
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#139
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Glass Joe
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222 static AP is amazing. Crit EP value for an Ulduar geared Enhancement shaman should be 1.8 - 1.9, making the proc quite good as well, but falling just short of the 1284 AP proc from Blood of the Old God. I would certainly replace my FotFF for this sexy trinket given the opportunity.
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Since shaman have ankh, don't they technically have twice the stamina that other classes do? I think that makes this mostly a non-issue.
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- Bryne, on Enhancement shaman hp issues
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05/24/09, 2:48 PM
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#140
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Boulderfist
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i don't think i've seen it mentioned yet (though i might have just glanced over it) but has the [Mjolnir Runestone] been considered instead of wrathstone? or even in conjuction with it if the rest of your stats allow
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05/24/09, 4:01 PM
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#141
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Kn0w1edge
i don't think i've seen it mentioned yet (though i might have just glanced over it) but has the [Mjolnir Runestone] been considered instead of wrathstone? or even in conjuction with it if the rest of your stats allow
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It's on the spreadsheet and it, in fact, comes out quite well.
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05/26/09, 10:09 AM
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#142
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Don Flamenco
Orc Shaman
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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[Vanquished Clutches of Yogg-Saron] might actually be nice based on the following information based on a comment on Wowhead:
This dropped as an extra item in 10 man when we did Alone in the Darkness (0 Keeper used). It did not count towards the "hard" mode item, even though it is ilvl 226.
The trinket can spawn 1 of 3 different type of tentacles.
The crusher tentacle melee's for ~800 and has a "crush" ability which hits for more. The crush can crit for 2200.
The corruptor tentacle uses an "acidic poison" attack. It hits for ~1100 nature damage. It can attack from range.
The constrictor tentacle melee's and stacks a bleed damage attack. It can stack up to 9 or so times before the tentacle despawns. Bleed effect lasts 15 seconds and ticks every 3 seconds. Each stack adds 150 damage and 3% reduced movement speed to the bleed effect.
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What remains to be proven is how good the tentacles can survive, but if they can last their full duration (whatever that is, couldn't seem to find that either) they might actually be a serious contender.
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05/28/09, 6:31 PM
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#143
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Glass Joe
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So i'm curious, obviously wrath of the old god and pyrite infuser are ranking so high cause of their awesome procs and the hit being a high ep value so i've been looking for ways to drop hit off my gear in order to accommodate for one of them. But i'm having a hard time of it.
Now i know ultimately i'll be able to with rings without hit from general and yogg 25 and the leather pants from Yogg 25 man hard but am i overlooking something to replace chest or pants that is easier to get that is allowing so many people to use these?
edit: ahh well i found another 12 i could remove since i had forgotten about icewalker's 12 hit which puts me only about 17 over hit capped with old god which isn't bad since i'll be dropping some hit to pick up the rings without much issue. But it's funny how badly hit was for us in naxx to now i'm trying to find places to get rid of it.
Last edited by Tolio : 05/28/09 at 6:44 PM.
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05/29/09, 5:09 AM
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#144
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Doomhammer (EU)
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After losing a load of hit on my gear after getting a lot of Ulduar gear, I have had to swap my FotFF for Grim Toll (keeping the Mirror as my second trinket). I picked up a Nobles Deck earlier this week with a view to getting the card next month, but now I'm wondering if it's worth it. From all I've seen the Card and the Mirror both sim at about the same level, obviously I'd replace Grim Toll if I could afford to lose the hit, but as I can't should I even bother turning in the deck, or just re-sell the deck?
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05/29/09, 6:17 AM
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#145
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Don Flamenco
Orc Shaman
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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I'd say resell it, any Ulduar trinket sims as better for me then Greatness, Mirror as slightly worse, but not much. I'd say make one of the plate very happy.
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05/29/09, 9:19 AM
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#146
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Tolio
So i'm curious, obviously wrath of the old god and pyrite infuser are ranking so high cause of their awesome procs and the hit being a high ep value so i've been looking for ways to drop hit off my gear in order to accommodate for one of them. But i'm having a hard time of it.
Now i know ultimately i'll be able to with rings without hit from general and yogg 25 and the leather pants from Yogg 25 man hard but am i overlooking something to replace chest or pants that is easier to get that is allowing so many people to use these?
edit: ahh well i found another 12 i could remove since i had forgotten about icewalker's 12 hit which puts me only about 17 over hit capped with old god which isn't bad since i'll be dropping some hit to pick up the rings without much issue. But it's funny how badly hit was for us in naxx to now i'm trying to find places to get rid of it.
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The thing to keep in mind is that hit, even beyond the spell hit cap, still has value because it impacts your white damage, flametongue damage, chance to stack MW, and chance to proc static shock. That's why even once you go passed cap in the sim, it continues to have values of 1.6-1.7.
There are people out there with well over 500 hit rocking both the Pyrite Infuser and the Blood of the Old God. Drop what hit you can in terms of gems and enchants, because you certainly shouldn't need any extra, but don't stress about replacing or 'getting rid' of gear that has hit on it so that you can hover at the cap before using one of the Ulduar hit trinkets. Even with an EP for hit of 1.6-1.7, Infuser and Blood are still both top 4.
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06/05/09, 6:21 AM
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#147
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Страж Смерти (EU)
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I ve tried many variants of stats and items in enh sim due i have plenty of them and i can say that that it gave me nothing. I have good results on most of bosses using haste and critbased items with 4 top preulduar trinkets in Ulduar but iam still far 100-300 dps from Wowmeteronline Europe top 20 on Kologarn and Iron council, for example. Only explanation that i have is difference in raid tactics. Can someone here help me to optimize my dps on this encounters and sorry for my eng if there any mistakes not my native lang.
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06/11/09, 1:29 PM
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#148
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Glass Joe
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Ok, I just figured out how to use the enhsim properly and get results. I am trying to figure out the 2 trinkets I should be using. I have a handful of them, so I do have options... hence this post.
When I run enhsim to get the EP values for zomghax's spreadsheet, should I be adusting my stats for the sim by removing all stats the trinkets give me. Basically get the EP values "trinketless"? Or maybe with only one slot open?
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06/11/09, 10:21 PM
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#149
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Frostwolf (EU)
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At first without trinkets and after you found your first one, sim again with the one you just added.
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06/12/09, 1:46 AM
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#150
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dorf
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Well, yet another trinket. Comet's Trail off Algalon. Not sure how it'll fare for us, since static haste probably interacts much better than a proc.
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