Utters

Heh thanks for double checking my work for me. Glad to know I am not losing my mind and math skills. So now we need Yo to show up and explain his math. Though now we have MoT, DMC: G and FotFF easily as the top trinkets with average EP values.

 

Yo!

Grim Toll - I was using higher EP value for arpen (1.66) in my original post.
Bandit's Insignia - you lost damage to ap conversion part as it's proc is granting not ap but pure damage.
190 + 1.3(30% crit chance) * (1504+2256)/2 /50 (45 sec hidden cooldown, about 5 sec to fire after that with 15% chance) * 2 (2 ap @ lvl 80 ~= 1 dps) = 287.76 ~= 290 EP.
This ap to dps conversion has to be included into spreadsheet just like other personalized weights.

 

Utters

Hum interesting... this means that grim toll is working in the spreadsheet and I just need to go in and edit the BI. Is there yes or a no on those procs being spell and not melee crit? Lastly what is the math for figuring your DPS to AP conversion again? It's personalized right? Or straight 2?

EDIT: ok got BI fixed but as of now it's a flat 2ap-> dps conversion until I see otherwise.

 

mjgunn

Has there been any discussion about ChuChu's Tiny Box of Horrors? Seems pretty nice.

 

panny

I used [Darkmoon Card: Wrath] while levelling, due to my crit dropping too low, and I really liked it. There's no longer 2 separate stacks for physical and spell attacks; the stack gives crit rating for both everytime any attack doesn't crit.

Flametongue crits don't affect the stack but benefit from the buff (I assume). Lightning Shield also procs it, but obviously doesn't benefit.

Very nice for ensuring consistancy during levelling, especially since you can quite easily maintain the stack between mobs.

 

Oogachaka

Hey that is an interesting trinket, i completely forgot about it because at the 70 plateau it was underwhelming to say the least. I'm guessing the increased crit buff stack, only dispelled by by offencive crits, would stack nicely with flametongue and even spot mw-hw heals while grinding.

Though the real question is how much stack can you build in between white/wf/shock/lb crits resetting it?? I'm guessing not that many, but the increased consistency would be nice.

I just made a quick check and wrath isint in the simulator,

 

Utters

My initial thought on this trinket is that since it was not very good at 70 if it is any better at 80 it will only be marginally better. And even then it would only be better to people that have entry level gear(read as pre-heroics) due to [Meteorite Whetstone] and [Mirror of Truth] being strictly better and very easy to obtain through heroics.

 

Mman

The buff stack for [Darkmoon Card: Wrath] can realistically get above [Meteorite Whetstone] and [Mirror of Truth] (6 attacks without critting is 83 crit rating). However, if you average out the buffs on ever attack before that it is only a 41.2 crit rating. In order to get an average above the whetstone you have to attack 10 times without a crit. That seems highly unlikely to happen. The problem with the Wrath card is that it benefits you only if you do not crit. I think a similar trinket might be worthwhile, but only if the buff from it could average above passive crit trinkets in 4-5 regular hits. For the mirror this value would have to be above 42 crit rating per buff. Of course, the bigger the buff is the less likely you are to get multiple non-crit hits in a row...


edit: numbers worse than I thought, forgot to include the first hit w/o any effect from the trinket

 

Jheherrin

[Embrace of the Spider] seems to be a damn good trinket for Enhancement as well, although we will have a real fight getting it from the casters and healers.

Do we know if it will proc from Flametongue ?

 

• Binkenstein

If Darkmoon Card: Crusade was any indication, no.

 

panny

The math on [Darkmoon Card: Wrath] has been done, and its value just depends on your crit. I'm not recommending it as a raid DPS trinket or anything, just mentioning it as a really nice trinket for reducing poor streaks (I had the max stack of 20 a couple times at about level 79).

 

SentinelBorg

[Dying Curse] also looks interesting. It has a chance of 15% to proc from every spell we cast, including totems, except for our shields. According to the sim, we should cast around 17 spells per minute. So it should proc at average after 23.5 sec. With a runtime of 10 sec and a cooldown of 45 sec this would mean an AEP value of (765 / 6.85) * SP-EP + 71 Hitrating * HR-EP. In my case this would result in a value of 330 AEP, with [Grim Toll] at 346 AEP.

 

Neurosisxeno

Wrath essentially loses value as you get more gear, where as most of the other trinkets retain the same level of effectiveness regardless, and in some cases become more valuable. Once you have more than 20% Crit, Wrath is a poor choice. I will say it probably is a decent trinket for leveling, but in terms of Heroics\Raiding it's a poor choice.

 

panny

I'm NOT recommending it as a raid DPS trinket fffffffffffffffff

Christ, I'm sorry I bought it up.

 

Wnl

Has anyone checked out [Tears of Bitter Anguish] ? I haven't been able to find out the internal cooldown on it, and I would like to pick it up for resto anyway for particular haste effective fights such as raid healing on 3 drake Sarth. I am curious how good for enhancement it is depending on its internal.

 

Mengus

I'd think it would fall somewhere below a Meteorite Whetstone. Not a terrible trinket per say, but one worth passing on for Healers and casters. It's basically the same proc as the Whetstone, but Crit is a much more beneficial stat for enh vs. haste.

 

SpottedCowz

Off the top of my head I'd say that unless it's very close to 100% on crit OR has no internal CD, it's not going to be worthwhile. Consider that Crit and Haste have very similar EP values, generally with Crit coming in a little higher than Haste. [Mirror of Truth]has more static Crit than this has Haste, and 1000 AP on proc is better than 410 Haste (410*1.7=697). It's 5AM and I'm not in any shape to be doing the comparative math, but you're going to have to see roughly an additional 35% uptime over Mirror of Truth for it to rank out better. Since Mirror is incredibly easy to get and there are several raiding trinkets that are easy to get that rank higher than Mirror (FFF, [Grim Toll], etc.), I'm thinking that Tears is the kind of thing you get for a shaman that can't raid.

Edit: Did the math using my EP values (1.52 for haste and 1.59 for crit), uptime would have to be nearly DOUBLE to be as effective as MoT. At 2PPM, Tears came out to 318.69(214.82@1PPM) vs. 300.22 for Mirror @ 1PPM. Conclusion: it's purple, it's rare as hell, it's more or less junk.

 

Wnl

I picked it up for 2000gold. After doing some tests, it's about a 45 second internal CD (like most other haste proc trinkets), so it isn't that amazing for enhancement. Also found out that it is bugged at the moment and doesn't proc off spells, a GM responded to me telling me it will be fixed in the upcoming patch.

 

Mengus

It's become rather useless for resto with the upcoming patch, but the chances of you getting a better enhance trinket down the road making it something that should be left to hunters and rogues.

 

Donjo

FYI

(73*2) + (346*.7)(20/120)

186.37 EP using the values at the start of this thread.

 

Tramana

No one has mentioned [Thunder Capacitor] in a while.

Depending on your crit rate, It can be very good as it builds charges off of flame tongue crits.

A couple examples. In this Loatheb fight Wow Web Stats, the capacitor generated 42 lightning bolts over 330 seconds. That's one bolt every 7.85 seconds. With a more normal crit rate in this Patchwerk fight Wow Web Stats, I had 19 lightning bolts over 239 seconds or one bolt every 12.5 seconds.

Using the 12.5 second/bolt number and a value of 30% for crit (so 1.15% multiplier), a 1.13 multiplier for %spell damage debuff and 2 ep/dps I get an ep value of ( 1181 + 1371 ) / 2 * 1.15 * 1.13 * 2 / 12.5 = 265 ep.

And it scales so that the higher your crit rate, the more valuable it is. The previous case of Loatheb it would be worth ~530 ep.

It would be interesting to see this trinket in enhsim.

 

SentinelBorg

I can't follow your calculations. In your WWS of Patchwerk you gained 58 Thunder Charges. You need 4 of them for one proc, so shouldn't it have been only 14 Lightning Bolts? And do those bolts use your Stormstrike charges? But it's a rare and interesting thing that it procs of Flametongue.

 

Rouncer

He's calculating it as if it was the Lightning Capacitor and only needed 3 charges per bolt. So it is only worth 75% of the values presented or 195EP on a normal fight and 397.5EP on Loatheb. Still pretty strange that they allowed it to gain charges from Flametongue crits considering Flametongue crits don't proc clearcasting.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Grimzilla

So considering this, would it be valid to use FT/FT and use both the Lightning Capacitor and the Thunder Capacitor ?
Looking at this from a casual view, ofc its not raid valid.

 

Rouncer

Edit - I was wrong and it actually is a damn good trinket until they fix the (I assume it is a) bug where it is gaining charges from Flametongue crits.

Edit2 - Still would be retarded to switch to FT/FT to attempt to charge the trinkets up faster since they both have a limit on how fast they are allowed to discharge and since they both would gain a charge from each individual crit there is no reason to suffer the dps loss from going to FT/FT.

Alt mage - Rounce