Tramana

If you look here, wws doesn't count 4 charges per lightning bolt. It only counts 3.

Wow Web Stats

So I took the total number and divided by 3. I believe my ep calculations are correct, and wws's count of charges is wrong.

edit: I agree that it's not the best trinket in game, but it definitely belongs on the list of viable trinkets for beginning raiding.

 

Rouncer

Yup you are correct. I went through the log file and you had 19 distinct lightning bolts with damage values that couldn't be anything other then from the capacitor.

Guess the trinket does belong on the list until the fix it gaining charges from Flametongue crits. So dumb that they have created a green quest trinket that outvalues epic trinkets with significantly higher ilevel values.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Broshious

I did some testing of my own and the Thunder Capacitor appears to be behaving a bit oddly. I frequently see back-to-back gaining of charges. I don't know if this has to do with Flametongue Weapon being bugged or if it would work for regular spells as well.

 

Metaskie

Gaining charges back to back is normal. The tooltip is a bit misleading. TLC and TC cant gain a new charge 2.5secs after releasing a bolt. Before that though, the 3(4) charges can come back to back to back as long as the spells hit and crit.

 

runerz

I wana ADD TC also procs from
Fieryweapon - confirmed
Deathfrsot - Unconfirmed
Icebreaker - Confimed
Flame cap -Confirmed

 

Njald

If it works like old lightning capacitator then only the bolt release is on cooldown for 2.5s. Thus as long as you don't manage to built 4 charges per 2.5s you will not notice the cooldown.
The mechanic for Lightning Capacitator have always been a bit different from what the tooltip indicates.

If I recall correctly Blizzard changed the Lightning Capacitator not to limit the charges on solo target but to prevent AoE effetcs to spawn multiple bolts in quick succession. (guess mages spamming aoe while also shooting tonnes of bolts was a bit too strong)

 

Sprinter

HI all,
i just did some theorycrafting using enhsim with different trinket combinations.
The result is a bit surprising.

Mirror of Truth + Fury of the five flights - DPS 4977
=> Best gemable stat: crit(2.21) > haste(2.17) > hit(2.01)
Darkmoon Card: Greatness + Mirror of Truth - DPS 4963
Darkmoon Card: Greatness + Fury of the five flights - DPS 4960
=> Best gemable stat: haste(2.04) > crit(2.03) > AP
Mirror of Truth + Meteorite Whetstone - DPS 4960
Meteorite Whetstone + Fury of the five flights - DPS 4948
Darkmoon Card: Greatness + Meteorite Whetstone: DPS 4933

For those calculations i used the following static stats on the trinkets:
Mirror of Truth: 84 crit = 1.83% melee and spell crit
Meteorite Whetstone: 74 crit = 1.61% melee and spell crit
Darkmoon Card: Greatness: 90 Agi = 90 AP + 1.06% melee crit

The interesting thing on the result is, that the darkmoon card doesnt seem to be as good as the information at the beginning of this thread shows.
The gear used in this simulation contains a high amount of content-end items.
For further information about the used items: http://armory.wow-europe.com/charact...ash&n=Sprinter
Since this url can only be a snapshot, the enhsim config files can be downloaded here

I think reasons therefor are for example that AP scales better then agi (mental quickness) atm - so the benefit from extra spelldamage as well as extra spell crit are higher as expected (also Strom strike debuff +28%).

Since Mirror of Truth seems to be the best from the above calculations, I removed one trinket completely and calculated the EP with 1 missing trinket in slot.
Results:

Haste 1.99 | crit 1.90 | agi 1.78 | hit 1.82 (on cap) | ArP 1.14

Suprisingly Haste seems in this combination the best gemmable stat on hit and expertise cap.
Calculating the EP for the trinkets as on page1 with the same proc chances given:

Darkmoon Card: 338 EP
Mirror of Truth: 326 EP
Meteorite Whetstone: 317 EP
Fury of the five flights: ~310 EP
Grim Toll: 290 EP

Meteorite Whetstone is better then expected, Grim toll is worse then expected.
Also, Darkmoon Card still seems to be the best trinket available - In opposite to the simulation of enhsim itself.

This is a thing i dont really understand. I double checked the settings for melee and speel crit, also agi.

Darkmoon carnival starts on 5th of January and i have the full deck on stock - so i need to get a feeling whether to use it or to sell it. (costed me around 14k to craft/buy).
If somebody already has this trinket inslot - i would love to have feedback^^

 

Ouktaar

I thought it was pretty much a given that the Grim Toll was overvalued in the original post. ArP usually sims out around 1 EP give or take. With an uptime of 10/60, the proc is only giving you about 102 EP plus or minus 20. Compared to Mirror of Truth that has a proc value of 166.67 EP.

I have Grim Toll. Keep it in my bag just in case I am running without a Boomkin or Spriest. Allows me to achieve spell hit cap on the fly without going through a food and elixir on each attempt.

If I have the 3% spell hit buff, I am using the Darkmoon Card and Mirror of Truth. I will say that one annoying feature of the Greatness Card is that it procs off of everything. Just tonight, against Sapph, I ran behind an ice block and popped off a chain heal to help the healers out. Greatness proced off the heal.

Interesting that the Card produces less DPS than FotFF in your sim. I may have wasted a great deal of gold.

The values you are getting for haste make me wonder how good the Mark of Norgannon might be.

 

Pitbuller

You also need remember to raise spell power from mental quickness.
Darkmoon Card: Greatness: 90 Agi = 90 AP + 27sp + 1.06% melee crit

Slow, slower, shaman weapon.

 

• Zyla

I echo the FoTFF/Mirror being the best trinkets through my simming time. I was surprised to see the whetstone up there that high.

We don't use words like that...St. Louise is listening!

 

Sprinter

Thanks for the remark.
Yup i forgot about the 27 Spellpower.

New result:
Darkmoon Card: Greatness + Mirror of Truth - DPS 4979
Mirror of Truth + Fury of the five flights - DPS 4977
Darkmoon Card: Greatness + Fury of the five flights - DPS 4972
Mirror of Truth + Meteorite Whetstone - DPS 4960
Darkmoon Card: Greatness + Meteorite Whetstone: DPS 4950
Meteorite Whetstone + Fury of the five flights - DPS 4948

The changes due to the missing spellpower were higher then expected.
Still, there seems to be no great benefit out of this set, but that also depends on whether you get your hands on other end-content stuff.
The cheap solution of meteorite whetstone which anybody can get from a hero and the mirror of truth from the vendor is overall 20dps behind the "best" combination. I guess the Darkmoon card is way more valuable for rogues or warriors.

 

Ryethe

Your results pretty much back up what I've been seeing in game.

However, I've often wondered how well the sim can account for a trinket like Fury of the Five Flights. There are some fights where you just can't keep up a full stack. The EP value is bound to be much lower on those kind of fights (not to mention trash pulls). Personally, I've taken to wearing my trusty Meteorite Whetstone and only putting on FotFF for fights I know I can keep up a stack on.

I really feel FotFF should have a big bold asterisk next to it.

 

e30Birdy

I agree with Ryethe totally cause if you cant keep the full stack on then FotFF then it isnt worth hardly any EP. Sapph is a good example of a fight where id rather roll with a different trinket like the Whetstone (till i get my deck finished)

 

Rouncer

Doesn't FotFF stack off windfury hits? What about flametongue hits?

How long does it take to get to 20 stacks?

Whetstone being that good is surprising but Blizzard has a history with some trinkets having more value then they really are meant to have, the DST for example.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Ryethe

I did some test runs on a target dummy while doing a full rotation (so non-FotFF attacks like ES and LB were included). My timer showed that it took anywhere from 10-18 seconds to get up a full stack. Your millage may very though depending on your haste. Flametongue did not add a stack. On a WF proc there was one stack added for each WF attack.

 

Sprinter

Well Fury of the five flights is not a good trinket for trash mobs or PVP.

As you use the medaillion of the horde anyways in PVP - np.
In PVE, you can use it on the most encounters - probably it doesnt make sense on Sapphiron.

Since these encounters are not really hard, i dont exchange such stuff as trinkets as my bags are always full and stuff is placed in bank ^^ But you can of course put meteorite whetstone in place or the hitrating trinket - as with using 2 resi gear parts your hitrating drops significantly. I use hitfood in these cases though.

 

• Zyla

If you can't manage to keep a FotFF stack up, you're Doing It Wrong¨ Nothing should ever take you that long away from a target. Trash is irrelevant for discussions of combat trinkets and mechanics.

We don't use words like that...St. Louise is listening!

 

Ryethe

I can think of a few fights where stacks will regularly drop off:
Malygos - Phase 1 during the Vortex. Possibly Phase 2 depending on how far you have to run (but not likely).
Sartharion - Running to avoid flame wall.
Heigan - Dance phase.
Grobulus - Debuff is 8 seconds. Even if you get cleansed in a safe spot by the time you get back your stacks will likely drop.
Gothik - Depends on how fast the adds come if you're on dead side. You'll have to rebuild a stack every time he teleports.
Sapphiron - Air phase. I've also had him blizzard up the melee safe spots causing my stack to drop as I had to move out of the blizzard.
Kel'Thuzad - Rarely possible with detonate mana if the safe spot is far enough away.

These are the ONLY bosses where there's even a chance for the stack to drop. Admittedly the chance of the stack dropping off is marginal at best for some of those fights. Furthermore the effect of the stack dropping is minimal in some cases (like Heigan since he's on the floor for so long). However, since we are all min-maxers here the loss of effectiveness should at least be considered.

 

Whodi

If it is confirmed 15 sec proc ever 45 secs, then over time ,that would be a "static" extra 100 ap if my calculations are correct. If that is the case then you would add another 30 Sp and the extra 1.17 melee crit in addition to what Pitbuller said?

So that would be 57sp and 2.23 crit if I'm thinking right.

 

Sprinter

In Enhsim, this trinket is already included.
Sp the proc should be caluclated by enhsim itself.

It was only about static values, so you can compare removing one of your trinkets and then still having accurate stats.

 

Jessie

If there were no cool down on the bolts, then using [Thunder Capacitor] & [The Lightning Capacitor] would make for some comical autoattacks if you DW'd [Brunnhildar Axe] with flametongue to take advantage of the double flametongue proc bug. Two of those DWing FT, and you'd be shooting rapid-fire lightning bolts.

When we look at you we don't even see the testicles on your chin. We see the testicles in your heart.

 

Rouncer

According to others they already hotfixed the issue.

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Rouncer

Updating your trinket values with my latest EP values and reordering the trinkets based on the results.

AP = 1.00
Crit Rating = 1.81
Hit Rating (below spell cap) = 3.40
Hit Rating (above spell cap) = 1.67
Expertise Rating (below dodge cap) = 2.59
Expertise Rating (above dodge cap) = 0
Haste Rating = 1.83
Armor Penetration Rating = 1.00
Spellpower = 1.23
Strength = 1.10
Agility = 1.70
Intelligence = 1.40

Many trinkets have 2 values, one for below the cap and one for above. If you are wearing the best possible gear you have available and that item's value will take you to the cap but not over then use the below cap values. If it will take you partially over the cap then recalculate the value of the trinket based on the portion below and the portion above the cap. As always use the Sim to determine the EP values most relevant to your personal situation.

Trinkets:

405/207 EP Below Cap/Above Cap [Grim Toll] - Naxx

83*3.4 + 1*612 /5 = 404.6 EP

83*1.67 + 1*612 /5 = 207.1 EP

329/150 EP Below Cap/Above Cap [Mark of Norgannon] * Better for tanks, since you can cap exp via gems/chants instead

69 x 2.59 + 491*1.5/6 = 328.5 EP

69 x 0 + 491*1.5/6 = 149.8 EP

321 EP [Darkmoon Card: Greatness] - Nobles Deck (Agility)

90*1.70 + 300*1.70 * 15/45 = 321.3 EP

319 EP [Mirror of Truth] - 40 Heroic Badges

84*1.81 + 1000/6 = 318.7 EP

310 EP [Fury of the Five Flights] OBSIDIAN SANC 25

Builds 320 ap, needs short warm-up period, save to say EP = 310

299/204 EP Below Cap/Above Cap [Sphere of Red Dragon's Blood] - Nexus (Heroic)

55*3.4 + 670 * 20/120 = 298.7 EP

55*1.67 + 670 * 20/120 = 203.5 EP

296 EP [Meteorite Whetstone] - UP (Heroic)

74*1.81 + 444 * 1.83 * 10/50 = 296.4 EP

290 EP [Bandit's Insignia] - SAPPHIRON

190 + 1.3(30% crit chance) * (1504+2256)/2 /50 = 290 EP

264 EP[Loatheb's Shadow] - NAXX 10/25

84*1.81 + 670/6 = 263.7 EP

200+ EP [Mighty Alchemist's Stone] Worth a little more if you use mana pots over haste

197 EP [Incisor Fragment] - DK (Heroic)

148 + 291/6 = 196.5 EP

185 EP [Blackened Naaru Sliver] - Sunwell Plateau (M'uru)

184 EP [Pendulum of Telluric Currents]

74*1.81 + 1450/60 (about 1 ppm for enh) * 2 = 183.8 EP

182 EP [Vestige of Haldor]

65*1.83 + (1024+1536)/2 * 1.3 *2 / 50 = 181.5 EP

170 EP [Darkmoon Card: Crusade]

164 EP [Fezzik's Pocketwatch]

60 * 1.83 + 432 * 15/120 = 163.8 EP

150 EP [Shard of Contempt] - Magister's Terrace (Heroic)

150 EP [Berserker's Call] - ZA (Zul'jin)

Alt mage - Rounce

 

Ouktaar

Thanks, Rouncer, but some of you math is still off...Do the calculation on Grim Toll for instance.
83*3.4 + 0.75*612/5 is not equal to 405.
Not to mention, your EP for ArP was 1.00, but you left in the .075 varible from the OP.

For trinkets like Grim Toll and Mark of Norgannon, I tend not to look at the "before cap" and "after cap" calculations. Instead, I rank them by opportunity cost. Both caps are attainable well before you have all BiS simply with gems/elixirs/foods. If I wasn't using those consumables to cap hit and exp, I would most likely use them for straight AP. Instead of 40 hit food, I would use 80 AP. Instead of 16 hit gems, I would use 32 AP. Therefore, the Grim Toll allows me to pick up an extra 166 AP through gems/elixirs/food, so I would rate the 83 static hit on the trinket as 166 EP.

This makes Mark of Norgannon a very average trinket in all situations. Same for Grim Toll, however, I like having it in my bag for the rare case where I am missing both a Spriest and Boomkin. Then I feel comfortable rating the trinket by its full "before cap" value since I don't want to re-gem just for a sub-optimal, temporary raid setting.

 

Protico

I am not sure exactly why my numbers are so far from yours, but I am using a pretty cookie-cutter buff build and Slow/Slow weapon set up, yet my numbers for [Grim Toll] are vastly different than yours. I sim ArP at 1.88 (compared to your .75) and hit at 1.59 (close to your 1.67) which places Grim Toll much higher on the chart than it is currently, above FotFF and close to Greatness (ahead if Agi sims as low as it seems to for you, my Agi is 1.82 so Greatness still has a decent edge).

Any chance you could paste the config which gives ArP a .75 (or it looks like 1 in most recent post) EP?

[e] I am concerned with after cap numbers, in case that wasn't clear.